Best spell and tactic

[Sprdalo]

Hello,

So I am playing a D&D game with my friends. I've come to the point where I need to fight a guy who is way stronger than me (I will put my stats and his in a moment :)), but he is a noob. So all I know about him is that he is a Barbarian Druid and I must kill him (because I need to get the ring out of him). I have 10 NPCs with me (and a personal wolf) and they are weaker in comparison with me. Maybe the most important part is that I can pick to learn one lvl 2 spell from any school. Can you help me pick the right spell and find the best strategy to kill this Barbarian. Here is my character:

Rogue - Arcane Trickster

Strength: 8 (-1)
Dexterity: 20 (+5)
Constitution: 12 (+1)
Intelligence: 16 (+3)
Wisdom: 10 (+0)
Charisma 14 (+2)

Inventor: bow (and arrows), two short swords, poison, needle, leather armor, an axe and a spyglass
Health: 57

Cantrips: Mage hand (+invisible), Friends, Minor Illusion
Spells: Silent Image lvl 1, Disguise self lvl 1, Mirror image lvl 2 (on ready), invisibility lvl 2, Darkness lvl 2, and I can pick one more lvl 2 from any school
Additional items: Scroll of longstride, Alter self ring and Scroll of fly.

So once again, I would be very thankful if you could help me find the best tactic and spell. If having any questions ask them and I will answer asap.

[JellyPooga]

Hold Person. Cast it, hope he fails, crit-sneak attack him to death.

[Sprdalo]

Hold Person. Cast it, hope he fails, crit-sneak attack him to death.

I am pretty sure that his Wisdom is okay. (Since he is a druid after all)

[OldTrees1]

You already picked your free (aka non illusion/enchantment) 2nd level spell. The free spell at 8th/14th/20th can be swapped out later for a higher level free spell but the free spell at 3rd level turns into an illusion/enchantment spell if you try to swap it.

So you have 1 free 1st level spell (unselected, why not Find Familiar or Shield?) and a free 2nd level spell (you wrote down Darkness)


Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can
replace one of the wizard spells you know with another
spell of your choice from the wizard spell list. The
new spell must be of a level for which you have spell
slots, and it must be an enchantment or illusion spell,
unless you’re replacing the spell you gained at 8th, 14th,
or 20th level

[Unoriginal]

Who are those 10 NPCs? What are their capacities?

[Sprdalo]

Who are those 10 NPCs? What are their capacities?

Just typical fighters. I am not very informed about their strengths except they are weaker than me.

[Sprdalo]

You already picked your free (aka non illusion/enchantment) 2nd level spell. The free spell at 8th/14th/20th can be swapped out later for a higher level free spell but the free spell at 3rd level turns into an illusion/enchantment spell if you try to swap it.

So you have 1 free 1st level spell (unselected, why not Find Familiar or Shield?) and a free 2nd level spell (you wrote down Darkness)

So I'll suppose that my GM made a mistake. However, is Darkness the best option for now?

[Unoriginal]

Just typical fighters. I am not very informed about their strengths except they are weaker than me.

Then you have won.

As soon as they can act, have them surround the Druid-Barbarian, and by group of two have them attempt to Shove the Druid (one does the Shove, the second use the Help action), and once the Druidarian is on the ground have the other pairs do the same but with Grapple (one grapple, the other uses Help).

Then just attack the druidarian until they're dead. OR even better just cut off the finger with the ring.

Or you could just have them go, surround the Druidarian, and have them attack. Druidarians might be damage sponges, but they won't be good solo vs 10 NPCs + a rogue who can Sneak Attack them at will.

You just have to avoid the druid summoning stuff.

[Sprdalo]

Sounds good! The ring is inside him however, but I hope this will work!

[Asmotherion]

So I'll suppose that my GM made a mistake. However, is Darkness the best option for now?

Unless you can see in magical darkness, it's as much an anoyance to you as it is for the opponent. Not a good option for a duel, best use as a crowd control as a simple spell.

Hold Person has been suggested as a good and effective direct option.

Suggestion, used creatively, could solve everything and even prevent the fight in the first place. "You want to give me the ring for safeguarding. I'm your ally, and you know it's safer with me, as they won't steal it from me" sounds like a good suggestion.

[Unoriginal]

Oh, and you should use Disguise Self to look like another of the NPCs.

[JellyPooga]

I am pretty sure that his Wisdom is okay. (Since he is a druid after all)

His Wis is probably ok, sure, but he's not neccesarily proficient in Wis Saves, while you are proficient with your spells. Besides...I never said it weren't a gamble!

[Galactkaktus]

If you can fight him out in the open i would recommend find steed.

[JNAProductions]

If you can fight him out in the open i would recommend find steed.

Wizard spells only, unless the DM waived that.

[Kane0]

Phantasmal Force?

[jiriku]

Using disguise self to look like someone he trusts and then suggestion to ask him to give you the ring for safekeeping is the obvious choice. You can walk away with your prize without ever rolling for initiative. Failing that, turning invisible and poisoning his food is a viable tactic. Or using invisibility and stealth to assassinate him while he sleeps. Or use your men-at-arms to help you kidnap someone your enemy values and demand the ring as ransom. Or even just use your deception magic to make him believe you have a hostage when you don't.

You're a rogue -- a stand-up fight against a powerful warrior should be your last resort only if all other tactics fail.

[Dudewithknives]

Try to steal it or don’t bother.

Unless dice rolls are far outside the norm, or you can fight in a very open place with lots of cover you can’t win.

[Unoriginal]

Try to steal it or don’t bother.

Unless dice rolls are far outside the norm, or you can fight in a very open place with lots of cover you can’t win.

That's a rather bold claim.

An 11 vs 1 fight is rather in favor of the 11, unless the gap between the two is 10 levels.

[jiriku]

Try to steal it or don’t bother.

Unless dice rolls are far outside the norm, or you can fight in a very open place with lots of cover you can’t win.


That's a rather bold claim.

An 11 vs 1 fight is rather in favor of the 11, unless the gap between the two is 10 levels.

More to the point, there's just no style in it. Ganging up on a powerful warrior in open combat and probably getting half your allies killed in the process -- where's the elegance in that? Arcane tricksters should be arcane and tricky. You're giving your foe the chance to use all of his strengths while forcing yourself to play to your weak suits. There's just no panache to such an approach. It is -- dare I say it? -- unoriginal.:smalltongue:

[Galactkaktus]

How about levitate? I'm suspecting that the barbarian druid combo is to use rage and wildshape at the same time since rage prevents spellcasting. So if he rages and wildshapes into something that doesn't have a fly speed(which requires 8 druid levels) you could use levitate and either make him waste a wildshape since you became hard to reach or wait out his rages while shooting him from above. Since levitate has a duration of 10 minutes and rage only has a duration of 1 minute.

[Corran]

Who are those 10 NPCs? What are their capacities?

Just typical fighters. I am not very informed about their strengths except they are weaker than me.
Are you sure you can trust them?:smallconfused:

[Kane0]

Give all your dudes slings or crossbows and have them stand back while you tag team with your wolf for the Pack Tactics and sneak attacks. Open with a spell of your choice as you close to melee range (Hideous Laguhter, Hold Person, Mirror Image, Phantasmal Force, Shadow Blade, etc)

For a good laugh, try Color Spray after the first volley from your warriors.

[Lille]

For everyone suggesting "steal it", remember this:


The ring is inside him however

[Unoriginal]

More to the point, there's just no style in it. Ganging up on a powerful warrior in open combat and probably getting half your allies killed in the process -- where's the elegance in that? Arcane tricksters should be arcane and tricky. You're giving your foe the chance to use all of his strengths while forcing yourself to play to your weak suits. There's just no panache to such an approach. It is -- dare I say it? -- unoriginal.:smalltongue:

Well excuuuuuuuse me jiriku, I consider a group of goons with a cunning leader going Fist of the North Star outlaws on one guy and winning to be very stylish.

Of course, as others mentioned, getting the NPCs ranged weapons might work better. If they're good at STR, a large bunch javelines are easy to acquire. If they're good at DEX, well, bow is the best if they have several attacks, otherwise anything available that can deal a lot of damage.

Barbarians and Druids can be tough, but getting showered by ranged attacks from too far away for them to retaliate is basically the worst case scenario for both, as far as group vs PC goes.

[JakOfAllTirades]

All good, solid recommendations so far.

I'd also be willing to try Blindness. Giving advantage to all 11 of the attackers, and giving the Druid/Barbarian defender disadvantage on attacks would be devastating. He also wouldn't be able to cast any spells that require line of sight.

[Dungeon-noob]

Okay, here's a question i'm surprised no one asked: levels for you, nature boy, and your mooks? Also missing the bardruids stats you say you'd post.

[R.Shackleford]

For everyone suggesting "steal it", remember this:

At level 10 (not sure what level the OP is)

+5 Dex
+8 (sleight of hand expertise)

= +13

Nearly impossible is 30. Keep trying and you will roll a 17+.

The fighters can do the shove/grapple tactics to get the enemy on the ground and then the rogue uses the back door to steal the ring.

Or if the ring is just under the skin, pull a Kill Bill style eye pluck, but with the ring.

This is why I try to always have sleight of hand.

[Sprdalo]

So, I forgot to say that:

I am level 8.
I do not know the precise stats of my foe, but his level is 12. And his health is *about 400*.
Strategy: show/grapple won't work because he is too big.
Levitating won't work because he is very fast as I know.

My "mooks":

9 of them are a bit stronger than guards. The 10th is a fighter lvl 8-10.
Their inventory: longsword, crossbow and shield.

[Unoriginal]

And his health is *about 400*.

There are no way for a PC to have this much HPs, let alone at lvl 12.

That's the kind of HPs you see in Archdevils and Demon Princes.


Strategy: show/grapple won't work because he is too big.

No PC is too big for grapple. Not at lvl 12 at least.



Levitating won't work because he is very fast as I know.

Speed doesn't do anything to Levitation.



9 of them are a bit stronger than guards. The 10th is a fighter lvl 8-10.
Their inventory: longsword, crossbow and shield.

I think you're going to need to give us more context.

How did you and this guy get into that "must fight" situation?

[Sprdalo]

I think you're going to need to give us more context.

How did you and this guy get into that "must fight" situation?

So, the ring that he has is the biggest thing in the campaign. These 10 NPCs are just the support that my "king" has given me.

[Dudewithknives]

So, I forgot to say that:

I am level 8.
I do not know the precise stats of my foe, but his level is 12. And his health is *about 400*.
Strategy: show/grapple won't work because he is too big.
Levitating won't work because he is very fast as I know.

My "mooks":

9 of them are a bit stronger than guards. The 10th is a fighter lvl 8-10.
Their inventory: longsword, crossbow and shield.

If his character is built well he is probably a Barbarian 2, Moon Druid 10, in which case you all die, and easily.
If he plays even close to intelligently, but is not built that way then you will all die, but it will take longer.

If he is built VERY badly, and has no clue what he is doing, you might can pull it off, but rather unlikely.

[Unoriginal]

So, the ring that he has is the biggest thing in the campaign. These 10 NPCs are just the support that my "king" has given me.

Alright, but how come you're fighting a demigod with 10 chumps?

[Sprdalo]

Alright, but how come you're fighting a demigod with 10 chumps?

Maybe a bit disappointing fact is that the guy playing the "demigod" enter the campaign about a week ago. If I pull back now, I will most likely be killed by the one who has sent me (after I take the ring adios to that idiot). This guy playing the "demigod" is a noob who is playing for the first time, so a rather medium-good tactic should erase him.

[Dudewithknives]

Alright, but how come you're fighting a demigod with 10 chumps?

I think the too big thing might be because of wild shape or polymorph into something too big.

Assuming this is made using normal PC rules, which it does not seem to be, I would guess,
Barbarian 2 Moon Druid 10 or even worse for the group Barbarian 1 Moon Druid 11.

There is no way they win this fight.


To sum this up, The OP's DM sucks.

Even a total noob that is a level 1 Barbarian, level 11 Moon druid, with some fancy plot ring will wipe the floor with them.

[Unoriginal]

Maybe a bit disappointing fact is that the guy playing the "demigod" enter the campaign about a week ago. If I pull back now, I will most likely be killed by the one who has sent me (after I take the ring adios to that idiot).

That doesn't answer my question.

How did you get into this situation? What's the in-game story? Why is this weird PvP going at the table when it's mostly going to give wrong expectations to the noob?



This guy playing the "demigod" is a noob who is playing for the first time, so a rather medium-good tactic should erase him.

Yeah, no. He can kill all of your group just with unarmed strikes. While in human form.


I think the too big thing might be because of wild shape or polymorph into something too big.

Assuming this is made using normal PC rules, which it does not seem to be, I would guess,
Barbarian 2 Moon Druid 10 or even worse for the group Barbarian 1 Moon Druid 11.

There is no way they win this fight.


400 HPs is just too ridiculous.



To sum this up, The OP's DM sucks.


That sums it up.


The only way to win this would be to get Moloch's help or something like that.


Or maybe if you trick the guy and make him go into a ridiculously strong trap.

[Dudewithknives]

That doesn't answer my question.

How did you get into this situation? What's the in-game story? Why is this weird PvP going at the table when it's mostly going to give wrong expectations to the noob?



Yeah, no. He can kill all of your group just with unarmed strikes. While in human form.




400 HPs is just too ridiculous.



That sums it up.


The only way to win this would be to get Moloch's help or something like that.


Or maybe if you trick the guy and make him go into a ridiculously strong trap.

400HP TOTAL at level 12 is not too ridiculous.
Lets assume he is Barbarian 2, Moon Druid 10.
Con of 16 is not outside the norm probably considering his other physical stats, his INT and CHA will not really matter.

Let's assume average HP rolls.
12 + con at level 1 = 15
Level 2 = 10 more
10 levels of druid: ~8 per level for ~ 80HP
That is 105 just normal HP, again assuming he is just 16 con and rolled average.
Wild shape into an Earth Elemental: +126 HP (I think, I am away from books.)
That is 230 is HP.
Will have resistance to all damage the group does as none of them are going to be throwing magic damage
So effectively might as well be 460 HP.

Then however, comes the issue of the fact they can bonus action spend a spell slot to heal very well, even while raging.
Lets say they can pull that off for 5 turns while in elemental shape, (probably will be a lot longer than that as I will point out)
That is 22D8 damage healed on top of that so ~ 99 more HP

That is effectively ~560 HP, with no gear, no magic items, no nothing, just a 16 con and average rolls.

Here is the kicker.

Earth elementals can earth glide.

Sink into the ground.
On your turn, come up and pound a mook to death, or at the very least, close to it, then earth glide back down.
Nobody will ever get their actual actions to use, only a readied reaction, or a reaction if the druid leaves the threatened area of someone actually alive.
Not only that they could just stay underground and bonus action heal as much as they want.

[Corran]

I'd have my character become this guy's minion. I am not even joking. If you cannot beat them, beat for them! And if an opportune moment presents itself, you can assess the risk of betraying him and taking the precious for yourself at that time (assuming you really want to be the backstabbing type).

If he is a ''noob'', as you say, then sooner or later he will do sth silly and fail. The smart thing to do is to wait for that moment.

[Stygofthedump]

Phantasmal Force?
Correct! His INT will be low and he will spend all his time fighting “you” illusion while you hide.

[Dungeon-noob]

So, I forgot to say that:

I am level 8.
I do not know the precise stats of my foe, but his level is 12. And his health is *about 400*.
Strategy: show/grapple won't work because he is too big.
Levitating won't work because he is very fast as I know.

My "mooks":

9 of them are a bit stronger than guards. The 10th is a fighter lvl 8-10.
Their inventory: longsword, crossbow and shield.
Bull****. He can't have HP and size like that as a PC, period. At non-level 20, that is just even more impossible. This is an egregious case of DMPC...wait, another player is playing this? HOW? WHY? DM WHAT DID YOU DO?

Levitating should still work assuming he weighs less then 500 pounds (unlikely, but we don't know). Con save though.

In all seriousness, with what we know this barbuid should not exist. Inform your DM that this is some real BS and he might want to reconsider some of his design decisions. If the DM refuses to budge and you don't walk away from this level of ineptitude (remember, no game>unfun/bad game), phantasmal force to keep him busy, surround him and shank his butt into oblivion. Or bomb him from range, while your rogue plays stab and seek.

[Galactkaktus]

I was actually advocating levitating yourself and not the druid. You cast levitate and rise 20 ft wait out the rage while shooting the druid since rage has a duration of 1 minute. Repeat once more and rage will probably be out of the fight without really doing anything while you are "safe". It hinges on using it when the druid makes a bad choice of what to wildshape into since he limits his spell casting and may lock out any ranged option.