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sheidula
2018-11-04, 08:08 PM
This is my first time posting.
I wish to share a prestige class I've written, for anyone's consideration, and with the hopes of receiving feedback for improvement.
It is a take on the muscle wizard concept likely familiar to many of you.


In short:

Magic is taxing;
A healthy mind needs a healthy body;
A healthy body will absorb the shock caused by jarring magical actions and protect the mind;
Punching a conjured or summoned creature tends to help persuade it to stay still during dissection or other experiments, examinations, or general interactions.
It is literally easier to lean part of the mental strain caused by the everyday application of magic onto a healthy body.

Alignment: Any
Hit die: d8
Class skills: The Muscle Mage does not gain any new class skills.
Skill points: 2 +int modifier

Requirements:
At least one level in a primary spellcasting class, and at least one level in a non-primary spellcasting class.
A score of at least 16 points in at least one of the following: Strength, Constitution, Dexterity

Table: The Muscle Mage




Level

BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special
PWF damage per spell level


1

+0

+1
+1
+1
Alternate Ability Focus, Power Word Fist 1, Maximize Touch Spell
+1d6


2
+1
+1
+1
+1
Dominator, No pain - no gain
+1d6


3
+2
+2
+2
+2
Core Power 1
+1d6


4
+3
+2
+2
+2

Power Word Fist 2
+1d8


5
+3
+3
+3
+3
Body and Mind 1, No pain - no gain

+1d8


6
+4
+3
+3
+3
Core Power 2
+1d8


7
+4
+3
+3
+3
Power Word Fist 3
+2d6


8
+5
+4
+4
+4
Body and Mind 2, No pain - no gain

+2d6


9
+6,+1
+4
+4
+4
Core Power 3

+2d6


10
+7,+2
+5
+5
+5
Power Word Fist 4
+2d8






Class features:
All of the following are class features of the Muscle mage:

The Muscle Mage gains spell slots as if having taken a level of his primary spellcaster class.

Muscle Mage levels are added to any spell or ability which is based on class level.

If the non-spellcasting class taken for the muscle mage is monk, then monk, the spellcasting class, and Muscle Mage can be taken interchangeably, without cancelling the monk progression.

Weapon and armor proficiency: The Muscle Mage doesn’t gain any new proficiencies.

Alternate Ability Focus (AAF): Replace your caster levels primary ability score (int, wis, cha) with one of the following: str, dex, or con. All spell slots, spells known, and other aspects that previously depended on the old ability are now derived from the new one.

As a swift action, the Muscle Mage may spend a spell slot and improve a single die roll involving his Alternative Ability Focus by the spell slots level. This can be done after the die is cast, but before the results are known. 0th level spell slots may be used as well, however it takes 3 0th slots to receive +1 point. This can be done once per round, and a total of 1+ Muscle Mage level times per day.

If multiple spellcaster levels have been taken, or a new one is taken afterwards, this class feature only applies to a single one.

Power Word Fist: Starting at first level, you can use up a spell slot during any melee attack to deal extra damage based on the slot level you used. For each spell level you deal an additional 1d6 damage. This damage grows again every 3 levels of Muscle Mage, increasing at 4th, 7th and 10th level to [spell slot level x 1d8, 2d6, and 2d8] respectively.
Any amount of 0th level spell slots can be used up at once, but each only adds +1 damage.
Power Word Fist is considered a magic weapon for the purposes of bypassing DR, and is not affected by spell or magic resistance.

Maximize Touch Spell: The Muscle Mage gains the Maximize Metamagic feat, but it can only be applied to touch spells.
The effects level adjustment may be diminished by spending extra spell slots instead of readying the spell in a higher slot, by the extra slots level; Thus a maximized Burning Hands can be cast from a 1st level slot if 3 1st level spell slots have been expended during preparation, or at the time of casting if you cast your spells at will.
0th level spell slots can be expended as well, though at a 3:1 ratio.
If your spellcaster class prepares spells in advance, the maximized spells slot may still be used up as normal to fuel other class features, however extra slots used to reduce the adjustment are lost for the day.

Dominator: Starting at level 2, whenever the Muscle Mage pins a non-native extraplanar creature for three rounds, he may attempt to instantly put it under his control or banish it. The Muscle Mage must make an AAF (Alternative Ability Focus) check vs the creature (dc 15+ creature cr). If the Mage succeeds, the creature is either banished, or effectively becomes a familiar, gaining an ego as that of an intelligent magic item; The creatures ego is equal to its cr+10, and the Muscle Mage must make AAF checks every day and whenever commanding it to do anything that would break a charm spell, otherwise the creature breaks loose. Only one such familiar may be kept at a time. A muscle Mage can banish this familiar at any moment. If a new such familiar is acquired while one is already present, the old one is set free.

No pain - no gain: At 2nd, 5th and 8th level the Muscle Mage gains a bonus feat, and an extra ability point of his choice. The bonus feat must either be a Metamagic, an item creation feat, or a fighter bonus feat.

Core power: At 3rd, 6th, and 9th level, the Muscle Mage learns to rely on his own body to support his magic abilities:
At 3rd level he gains spell and magic resistance equal to 5+ his AAF modifier, which stacks with any he might already have.
At 6th level, while casting a spell in melee at a target with elemental resistance, the Muscle Mage may make an AAF check (dc 10+ creature cr or level, whichever is greater) to bypass the targets resistance entirely.
At 9th level, when taking damage from a spell or spell-like effect, the Muscle Mage can spend a spell slot and attempt a fortitude save (dc 10 + damage received - spell slot level x3) to turn it into nonlethal damage. This can be attempted 1+ AAF mod times per day.

Body and Mind: At 5th level, the Muscle mage may use up a spell slot as a standard action and deal one attack per slot level used at his highest attack bonus, however all attacks this round gain a penalty equal to the slots level, eg:
A fighter 1/wizard 5/muscle mage 8 has a BAB of 8/1 and +5 str. He may move, then use up a 3rd level spell slot as his action, then deal 3 attacks at +10 (8, +5 str, -3 slot level) each.

Alternatively, starting at 8th level, he may cast a spell as part of a full attack instead of dealing an iterative strike. If the Muscle Mages BAB allows for more than one extra attack, an extra spell may be cast for each, but as if the target would have a spell resistance of 15, +10 for each previous spell cast at it this way, this round.

These two options may not be used simultaneously.

nonsi
2018-11-05, 07:55 AM
.

1. BAB & saves values are off.

2. The class doesn't advance spellcasting, which is terrible. It'll restrict you to low level spells.

3. Re-format the table as follows:

LevelBABFortRefWillSpecialPWF damage per spell level

+0 +0+2+2+2Alternate Ability Focus, Power Word Fist 1, Maximize Touch Spell
+1d6

+1 +1+3+3+3Dominator, No pain - no gain
+1d6

+2 +2+3+3+3Core Power 1
+1d6

+3 +3+4+4+4Power Word Fist 2
+1d8

+3 +3+4+4+4Body and Mind 1, No pain - no gain
+1d8

+4 +4+5+5+5Core Power 2
+1d8

+5 +5+5+5+5Power Word Fist 3
+2d6

+6 +6+6+6+6Body and Mind 2, No pain - no gain
+2d6

+6 +6+6+6+6Core Power 3
+2d6

+7 +7+7+7+7Power Word Fist 4
+2d8


4. Maximize Touch Spell: 3:1 ration is too high. You should find another way to do it.

5. Dominator: First sentence is very difficult to read. I'd advise re-wording.

6. "Power Word Fist" is a bad name (non descriptive). Call it Arcane Channeling, Spellstrike or something along those lines.

7. Core Power: If the class doesn't already have SR then this is meaningless. Make it 5 + char-level or existing + AAF (whichever's higher)

8. Body and Mind is potentially broken.

khadgar567
2018-11-05, 08:14 AM
plus i think no one gives up the casting stat to become weird hybrid of fighter with spells a good idea would be actually to let player add one physical stat to his or her casting stat this way you have a reason to become muscle mage

JeenLeen
2018-11-05, 08:50 AM
Class skills: The Muscle Mage does not gain any new class skills.
Skill points: 2 +int modifier


Alternate Ability Focus (AAF): Replace your caster levels primary ability score (int, wis, cha) with one of the following: str, dex, or con. All spell slots, spells known, and other aspects that previously depended on the old ability are now derived from the new one.



For skills: as 3.5, you don't have "class skills" for your character not tied to your current class. I think you'd do well to choose some of the standard skills common to Fighter and Wizard. I would think a simple combination of Athletics, Ride, Swim, Knowledge (any), Craft, Profession, Spellcraft (or whatever the appropriate 3.X names are.)

For AAF, if you keep this, I'd recommend saying something like "Upon taking the first level of this class, you can choose to replace your spellcasting's primary ability score (Int, Wis, or Cha) with one of the following..." and so on as you have it. Maybe with a "Upon reaching a new level in this class, you can reassign your primary ability score to its original ability (Int, Wis, or Cha) or reassign it between Str, Dex, or Con."
This allows a caster who has a really good mental ability but decent physical stats to take this class without nerfing themselves.

---

All in all, I like the concept. I feel like some of the powers are too strong, but I've been away from 3.5 for a while so I think others can give better commentary.
If you keep the Bonus Feats, I'd recommend make them limited to the bonus feats available to Fighters and Wizards. That keeps it from being overpowered while having a nice selection and theme.

To see if it's overpowered or not, one useful thing is to consider how it would work in these scenarios:
1) multiple levels of caster, 1 level dip into martial class, then take & continue in this
2) multiple levels of martial class, 1 level dip into caster, then take & continue in this
3) 1 level of caster, 1 level of martial, 1 level dip into this, then continue as wizard*
4) 1 level of martial, 1 level of caster, 1 level dip into this, then continue as martial**
*I can see this as a powerful way for a caster to dump their mental stats, swap it out for a high Con, then continue as a buff wizard/sorc/whatever
**this seems like it wouldn't really be worth it for this class, but I mention it as a tool for considering how players may try to abuse a class

sheidula
2018-11-05, 09:36 AM
Thanks for your input guys.


For skills: as 3.5, you don't have "class skills" for your character not tied to your current class. I think you'd do well to choose some of the standard skills common to Fighter and Wizard. I would think a simple combination of Athletics, Ride, Swim, Knowledge (any), Craft, Profession, Spellcraft (or whatever the appropriate 3.X names are.)

Unless I'm missing something, I was going off of most prestige classes Ive seen myself, and none would add their own class skills, instead leaving the player with whatever class skills he got from his base class. Here, since 2 different classes with their skills are already required, I figured more wouldnt be necessary either.


For AAF, if you keep this, I'd recommend saying something like "Upon taking the first level of this class, you can choose to replace your spellcasting's primary ability score (Int, Wis, or Cha) with one of the following..." and so on as you have it. Maybe with a "Upon reaching a new level in this class, you can reassign your primary ability score to its original ability (Int, Wis, or Cha) or reassign it between Str, Dex, or Con."
This allows a caster who has a really good mental ability but decent physical stats to take this class without nerfing themselves.

An interesting idea, however I figure, as the class can indeed be a bit more powerful than some others, this would be a good limitation and build goal, rather than something a player would just be able to switch out at will.


To see if it's overpowered or not, one useful thing is to consider how it would work in these scenarios:
1) multiple levels of caster, 1 level dip into martial class, then take & continue in this
2) multiple levels of martial class, 1 level dip into caster, then take & continue in this
3) 1 level of caster, 1 level of martial, 1 level dip into this, then continue as wizard*
4) 1 level of martial, 1 level of caster, 1 level dip into this, then continue as martial**
*I can see this as a powerful way for a caster to dump their mental stats, swap it out for a high Con, then continue as a buff wizard/sorc/whatever
**this seems like it wouldn't really be worth it for this class, but I mention it as a tool for considering how players may try to abuse a class

Thanks for the suggestion
All in all, since the MM, though perhaps poorly worded, does indeed progress spellcasting, it does fuel all of its abilities, and the abilities of the caster class. Thus n1 and n3 are essentially the same, depending on whether your caster class gets any features besides spells, eg druid.
N2 can add a decent output of bonus damage to an already melee focused build, same with n4.


plus i think no one gives up the casting stat to become weird hybrid of fighter with spells a good idea would be actually to let player add one physical stat to his or her casting stat this way you have a reason to become muscle mage

To clarify, are you suggesting that instead of using "a +5 str/dex/con mod instead of a +5 int/wis/cha mod" I allow the character to use "a +3 or so str/dex/con in addition to a +5 int/wis/cha"? That would seem a bit more powerful than I intended.


1. BAB & saves values are off.
2. The class doesn't advance spellcasting, which is terrible. It'll restrict you to low level spells.
4. Maximize Touch Spell: 3:1 ration is too high. You should find another way to do it.
8. Body and Mind is potentially broken.

1. Is there a standard that I've missed? On first glance, I found these values to fit the class.
2. It does in fact, I may have worded it poorly however. It is the 1st point under Class Features.
4. Do you figure the price is too high, or the effect? Most casters, with vanilla setups, get up to 6 cantrips per day, which means they can lower the cost of a maximized touch spell by at most 2 levels using only cantrips. There are several touch spells that might be worth dumping all cantrips into a single high cast, but I figure it would be the players choice to make a build around them, no?
8. Body and Mind is sort-of supposed to be the crown jewel of this class. Do you think moving it up to a higher level would help?

Thank you all for the input.

khadgar567
2018-11-05, 10:03 AM
To clarify, are you suggesting that instead of using "a +5 str/dex/con mod instead of a +5 int/wis/cha mod" I allow the character to use "a +3 or so str/dex/con in addition to a +5 int/wis/cha"? That would seem a bit more powerful than I intended.

yes i advice that as it gives both more omp to class and makes sure that our highest stat still usefull to us.

XionUnborn01
2018-11-05, 03:39 PM
1. Is there a standard that I've missed? On first glance, I found these values to fit the class.


Yes, classes have one of three BAB progressions. Full like a fighter, 3/4 like a cleric, or 1/2 like a wizard.

Also, while they could have all good saves technically, its pretty unheard of for anybody but the monk to get.

sheidula
2018-11-05, 03:45 PM
Yes, classes have one of three BAB progressions. Full like a fighter, 3/4 like a cleric, or 1/2 like a wizard.

Thanks, didnt realize that was a necessary requirement for a homebrew class. Ill change it to cleric progression.