That Pseudonatural Paragon Damn Crab!

[Arakune]

Bow before the new cuthullian-evil-god.

Lovecraft would be so proud :smallbiggrin:

[AtomicKitKat]

If we gave it the Madness domain, it could force some Symbols of Insanity and other stuff...

[tannish2]

madness domain... that would be shiny. still wouldnt pwn the kitten though.

[RTGoodman]

After thinking about this crab for a couple of days, I sort of want to write an adventure based on. Which leads to the question, are there Crab People (http://www.jimbo.info/weblog/archives/CrabPeople2.jpg) statted out somewhere in D&D?

I'm thinking something along the lines of, the (epic-level) PCs discover a hidden cult of Crab People intent on waking their dark (demi)god in order to take over the world. Of course, the PCs probably find out just a little too late, and thus have to fight the Divine Pseudonatural Paragon Damn Crab to prevent it from eating the world. Pretty simplistic, but this crab speaks for itself.

Also, now that I think about it, is there an Awaken Vermin spell somewhere? (Monstrous crabs are Vermin, right?) Because this thing's minions should be high-level awakened monstrous crab Clerics of DPPDC or something like that.

[Kyeudo]

(Noob Question) Why is it called That Damn Crab?

[Zincorium]

(Noob Question) Why is it called That Damn Crab?

Because, sent against a party of it's supposed CR (challenge rating), it will and has completely destroyed them unless they run away.

[Shas aia Toriia]

It's a DAMNED crab, because the original was CR 3, when it was deserving of becoming a CR 4-6. Anyways, that DAMNED crab is now viewed as a relatively (to say the least) powerful creature, and has become a house-hold name. :smallcool:

EDIT: Darn ninjas. You'd think that being one myself would stop it, but noo. . .

[Kyeudo]

Thanks for the info.

[Callos_DeTerran]

After thinking about this crab for a couple of days, I sort of want to write an adventure based on. Which leads to the question, are there Crab People (http://www.jimbo.info/weblog/archives/CrabPeople2.jpg) statted out somewhere in D&D?

There are only the Chuul, the great children of Crabthulhu.


I'm thinking something along the lines of, the (epic-level) PCs discover a hidden cult of Crab People intent on waking their dark (demi)god in order to take over the world. Of course, the PCs probably find out just a little too late, and thus have to fight the Divine Pseudonatural Paragon Damn Crab to prevent it from eating the world. Pretty simplistic, but this crab speaks for itself.

Also, now that I think about it, is there an Awaken Vermin spell somewhere? (Monstrous crabs are Vermin, right?) Because this thing's minions should be high-level awakened monstrous crab Clerics of DPPDC or something like that.

If this game is on the board, I will play, if only to battle/switch sides against Crabthulhu. The only other real crablike monsters that I can remember off the top of my head are an abberation from MM V and...thats about it. x.x

[Kyeudo]

Looks like Fax Celestis now has a PPDC as an avatar.

[Fax Celestis]

Looks like Fax Celestis now has a PPDC as an avatar.

And it is glorious. Bow before it's awesomeness.

[Kyeudo]

You were just waiting for someone to notice, weren't you?

[Mewtarthio]

If this game is on the board, I will play, if only to battle/switch sides against Crabthulhu. The only other real crablike monsters that I can remember off the top of my head are an abberation from MM V and...thats about it. x.x

Entomanothrope template (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a)

...You know, it occurs to me that, while spellcasting is banned when an entomanothrope is in vermin form, nothing prevents that damned werecrab from using psionics. Besides, isn't a crab-human-hybrid a great servant for His Glorious Crabbiness?

[Shas aia Toriia]

Fax, nice avatar.

PPDC FTW!!

[Zincorium]

Right. Rank 0 is technically "demigod".

Just wanted to ask about something...



Rank 0

Creatures of this rank are sometimes called quasi-deities or hero deities. Creatures that have a mortal and a deity as parents also fall into this category. These entities cannot grant spells, but are immortal and usually have one or more ability scores that are far above the norm for their species. They may have some worshipers. Ordinary mortals do not have a divine rank of 0. They lack a divine rank altogether.


Since divine rank 0 specifically cannot grant spells, you might want to up it to at least 1 so your worshipers don't get the shaft.

[Mewtarthio]

Since divine rank 0 specifically cannot grant spells, you might want to up it to at least 1 so your worshipers don't get the shaft.

The PPDC is worshipped by alienists, ur-priests, and the like.

[dyslexicfaser]

Since divine rank 0 specifically cannot grant spells, you might want to up it to at least 1 so your worshipers don't get the shaft.

Its worshippers don't need to be granted spells. They just need to have the threat of calling the PPDC, or even just its Damn Crab lessers. I bet their enemies would back right down. Sort of a 'My big brother could totally kick your ass' thing.

[AtomicKitKat]

There are only the Chuul, the great children of Crabthulhu.

If this game is on the board, I will play, if only to battle/switch sides against Crabthulhu. The only other real crablike monsters that I can remember off the top of my head are an abberation from MM V and...thats about it. x.x

Ahah. I knew I was searching in the wrong place. Yurian, Fiend Folio, page 198. Look like biped Crabs, but with extra, smaller claws for finer manipulation.


Right. Rank 0 is technically "demigod".

Actually, ranks 1-5 are Demigods(unless you mean Demigod in the "One of my parents is a god, the other a mortal" sense). Rank 0 is a Quasi Deity, of which the various Paragons(BoED) and Arch-Devils/Demon Princes are a type. They generally don't directly grant spells, but act as a conduit to the "true source"(Either the concepts of the domains, or a "true God") when worshipped.

[RTGoodman]

Since divine rank 0 specifically cannot grant spells, you might want to up it to at least 1 so your worshipers don't get the shaft.

Or, because of the rules of D&D 3.5, they can be clerics of a "cause." Therefore, their very devotion to the DPPDC itself is so strong that it gives them spells, rather than the DPPDC having to grant them.

Oh, and thanks guys for the info on Chuuls (how could I forget them?) and the Yurian (though now I've got to find a Fiend Folio to look them up in).

[Shas aia Toriia]

No, but if you worship the PPDC, you get no spells. Worshiping the cause of all of the DAMNED crabs, howerever, will.

[RTGoodman]

Yeah, that's what I meant. It's not necessarily worshiping it as a deity, but worshiping the concept of the Crabitude embodied by it.

[Ubiq]

Because this thing's minions should be high-level awakened monstrous crab Clerics of DPPDC or something like that.

Clerics? Why stop there? Why not Crab Paladins astride their mighty cachalot steeds on a holy quest to destroy the humanoids polluting their oceans?

[Callos_DeTerran]

Er...I may have...accidentally made something that could kill the crab...not sure yet since I ain't done...would immunity to ability damage/drain mean immunity to poison?

EDIT: Nevermind. Checked DPPDC's stats again and it once more succeeds in battle. x.x.

[Fax Celestis]

Er...I may have...accidentally made something that could kill the crab...not sure yet since I ain't done...would immunity to ability damage/drain mean immunity to poison?

EDIT: Nevermind. Checked DPPDC's stats again and it once more succeeds in battle. x.x.

Depending on who strikes first, my Pauper of Smack might have a chance. Nevermind. It focuses on dex damage, and DPPDC is immune.

[Mewtarthio]

As a miscellaneous side note, this topic is the first hit that comes up if you Google "monstrous crab." Yay, us! Or, rather, yay Fax for putting the link in his sig, which probably skews things a little.

[AtomicKitKat]

Damn crab works too.

[Generic_PC]

Damn crab works too.

As does DPPDC

[Citizen Joe]

This seems like the god of the optimizers. Just like TDC is supposedly CR 3, so too do optimizers betray their apparent level with their optimizations. Unfortunately TPPDC is something they aspire to rather than fear.

[puppyavenger]

This seems like the god of the optimizers. Just like TDC is supposedly CR 3, so too do optimizers betray their apparent level with their optimizations. Unfortunately TPPDC is something they aspire to rather than fear.

Pun-pun still kills it.

[Arakune]

Pun-pun still kills it.

pun-pun is a primordial nightmare: an aberration of the laws of existence in all multiverse far greater than the gods, while only the primordial forces of the existence (if there any) are stronger than him.

[Fax Celestis]

Pun-pun still kills it.

"Pun-pun can kill it" is not a measure of strength. It is a last resort for those who cannot find a better way in the rules to do a smiting.

[Cybren]

I'll do it as a level one commoner.

Human Commoner 1, Skill Focus: Craft (Alchemy), Weapon Focus Sling.


Round 1) Run up and punch the crab

Crabs Round 1) The DM goes "HA YOU DIE"

Right before the DM rolls, punch him repeatedly.

[namo]

At level 17-20 : Wizard casts a quickened Disjunction, then a maximized Time Stop. He then casts Energy Transformation Field (SC) during 4 rounds and Forcecage (windowed version). The Crab Trap is ready.

Then it's a question of doing enough damage (Druid with maximized no-SR area spells, anybody shapechanging into a Dragon and using a breath weapon...) or using a death effect (but bypassing SR requires many levels of Factotum so it's not so practical).

edit: actually the Wizard does it alone. Maximized Incendiary clouds, substituted to sonic using the Archmage Mastery of Elements ; a wall of stone/force to keep the clouds from moving away + Shapechange (shared with familiar) for Breath weapons should be enough (albeit slow). [That's to try and stay mostly core.]

[Citizen Joe]

I'd think any build to fight TDC or better would focus around a Freedom of Movement ability.

[Bauglir]

If SR is the problem, just play a level 20 Beguiler with scrolls. Problem solved.

Or spam save-or-die supernatural abilities using some prestige class (cough, pyrokineticist 9, cough).

[Ceres]

Fear the crab!

http://www.hugecrab.com/hugecrab36.jpg

[GoC]

This seems like the god of the optimizers. Just like TDC is supposedly CR 3, so too do optimizers betray their apparent level with their optimizations. Unfortunately TPPDC is something they aspire to rather than fear.

The god of optimizers?
I beg to differ!
The Cat-which-shall-not-be-named kills it easily.:smallamused:

[Citizen Joe]

I think you missed the point. It is NOT about beating the advanced version, it is about pretending to be many CR's lower that you actually are. This starts with TDC supposedly being CR 3 and then blowing it all out of proportion.

Presumably the house cat started at the right CR, so advancing it doesn't really do anything towards optimizing. It is just more powerful and suitably CR'd.

Given unlimited resources anyone can do anything. But it is only when you apply a limited resource model that an optimizer can shine. Ideally, DPPDC needs some means to lower the official CR while maintaining its awesomness.

This could probably be done by stipulating that DPPDC can switch places with any crab. Thus, the encounter could be a 'simple' CR 3 TDC which through a 'lucky' roll (i.e. GM fiat) becomes a DPPDC. This is similar to PC's using a cohort to expand their power, or by calling out the name of a demon to 'summon' it. The humble TDC could pray for assistance which would then transform into DPPDC.

[Hecore]

Hmm, thought of something that might kill the crab.

Take the feat Heads Up. Use Polymorph Any Object to turn a skull into a living head of a LeShay. The head will die of blood loss in moments, then simply grasp the head and for the next 24 hours you can use it's gaze 3 times as a standard action.

The crab has to make a DC 53 will save to avoid being affected as via Charm Monster. Once charmed, convince it to come to another plane with you, and cast Plane Shift. Once in the plane of your choice, simply teleport out of there, letting the crab be killed by whatever hell dimension you visited.

Convincing the crab should be easy, as it'll be an opposed Charisma roll and it's Charisma, while good, isn't epic. There is a chance that the crab will break the Charm Monster effect, as it gets a save each round, but this is still an excellent way of killing the crab -- and it can even be done before level 20 without the amount of cheese Pun-Pun has.

[Bauglir]

Ah, but why bother with a hell dimension? Why not the good ol' positive energy plane? Death by awesome is never a bad thing.

Nevermind, it has shapechange. It'll just turn into something with Positive Energy Immunity or somesuch.

[kemmotar]

The crab has to make a DC 53 will save to avoid being affected as via Charm Monster. Once charmed, convince it to come to another plane with you, and cast Plane Shift.

The crab is still immne to mind affecting effects...

I haven't got much experience with epic games, though i guess a cleric(destruction domain) with DMM heighten, improved heighten, a few extra turnings, a nightstick, epic wis and cha and a few feats to beat SR could do it...

Assay spell resistance and then a ridiculously heightened disintegrate spell should do the job..

Btw, since with heighten spell the caster level for the spell rises, wouldn't you also add an equal amount of caster level to your caster level check to beat spell resistance thus making it easier to beat the crab's SR?

BTW, aren't the crab's saves a bit low? My ECL 12 monk is at 20-24 saves...

[Frosty]

If you can hit it using Moment of Prescience and True Strike and stuff, you can hope an Overwhelm hits the crab. A beguiler 20 auto-bypasses SR if using cloaked casting, and you'll need your cohort the be ready to start CDGing or something.

[Garatolla]

Someone could try making a templated carcass crab - it would bump up the CR a good few notches, but on top of everything else, it will have the extra abilities a carcass crab does, for when you -really- need to cover every outcome. Which in this case would include the addtions of ranged attack, improved armour class, and a few other bits and pieces which can be handy

[namo]

Btw, since with heighten spell the caster level for the spell rises, wouldn't you also add an equal amount of caster level to your caster level check to beat spell resistance thus making it easier to beat the crab's SR?

Heighten does not increase the CL, only the effective spell level (which increases the save DCs, helps to bypass Globes of Invulnerability...). Earth Spell in Races of Stone extends Heighten to also improve the CL.

Still, bypassing that SR will be hard by just adding things together : it's easier to go around it.

edit: Overwhelm is mind-affecting.

[Skjaldbakka]

Fortify spell gives you +2/+1 spell level for purposes of spell resistance, IIRC.

[Idea Man]

Fax, I'm pretty sure you did not adjust its modified jump skill for its move rate. It should get a +100 to that. Just to nit-pick (and a jump skill of 155 is waaaay over the top:smallsmile: ).

I've noticed nobody has tried an exclusively melee approach. Yeah, that's its strong spot, but can it be done??? Without leadership, I mean. :smallamused: Mind you, I'm not saying go without magic, just keep it to items.

[Helgraf]

Yeah, that's why you just get them in shades of orange. No longer the same source, since you've got you're orange ioun stone, amber ioun stone, gamboge ioun stone, persimmon ioun stone, pumpkin ioun stone, rust ioun stone, safety orange ioun stone, tangerine ioun stone, tenné ioun stone, burnt orange ioun stone, carrot orange ioun stone, orange peel ioun stone.....

Shade doesn't matter. It's still an untyped bonus from a slotless item; ergo the same source.


Entomanothrope template (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a)

...You know, it occurs to me that, while spellcasting is banned when an entomanothrope is in vermin form, nothing prevents that damned werecrab from using psionics. Besides, isn't a crab-human-hybrid a great servant for His Glorious Crabbiness?

Magic-Psionics Transparency. If magic is verboten, so is psionics unless specificially exempted.

[Solo]

I shall bow before the might of Crabthulhu.

[kemmotar]

I shall bow before the might of Crabthulhu.

The new homebrew greater deity arises...This thread shall be henceforward named crab-genesis

[Bauglir]

Magic-Psionics Transparency. If magic is verboten, so is psionics unless specificially exempted.

Actually, the Magic-Psionics Transparency, as far as I know, only applies to the interaction of powers and spells and such things. The actual practices are still different, else Psicraft and Spellcraft would be identical (for instance). However, that being said, I agree that it SHOULD be something that one can't do, and the only reason it isn't is because writers don't consider psionics by default.

[Tor the Fallen]

Question:
As a rank 0 deity, how is the crab getting so many domains?

[Fax Celestis]

Question:
As a rank 0 deity, how is the crab getting so many domains?

DvR has no correlation to to domain quantity. Domains also frequently overlap between deities. It is portfolios that don't overlap ever.

[Tor the Fallen]

DvR has no correlation to to domain quantity. Domains also frequently overlap between deities. It is portfolios that don't overlap ever.

Are you sure?

Why would they have this:


Extra Domain
Prerequisite

Divine rank 6.
Benefit

The deity chooses one domain to add to its list of domains. The deity can grant spells and powers from that domain and use those spells and powers personally, just as it can the spells and powers of its other domains.
Notes

A deity can have this ability multiple times, choosing a new domain each time.

[Fax Celestis]

Are you sure?

Why would they have this:

Show me where it says in the Divine creation rules that they get a limited number of domains.

[Tor the Fallen]

Show me where it says in the Divine creation rules that they get a limited number of domains.

There's no domain limit?
So your divine rank 0 crab has more domains than major deities?

[Fax Celestis]

There's no domain limit?
So your divine rank 0 crab has more domains than major deities?

There's no domain limit, no. And most major deities have five to seven domains. DPPDC has four.

[Tor the Fallen]

There's no domain limit, no. And most major deities have five to seven domains. DPPDC has four.

Seems like a flaw in the rules to me.

[Bauglir]

Page 32 of Deities and Demigods, just before Salient Divine Abilities. "Deities may have more than 3 domains if they possess the Extra Domain Salient Divine Ability." Every deity with more than 3 has that Salient Divine Ability. Dangit. Which domain goes? Tis a tough call. Definitely not Watery Death, though. That's just too awesome.

Also, only Obad-Hai has more than 4 domains, but most deities HAVE used a salient divine ability for an extra domain. Most deities do have between 5 and 7 elements to their portfolios, though.

[Fiery Justice]

Simple really (although I'm sure its already been done):
One Half Elf Level 29 Bard/1 Exemplar (CoAdv) using the BoED.
Base Charisma: 25 (18+7). +6 (Cloak of Charisma) and +5 (Tome of Leadership and Influence). Hitting a total of 36 or +18 to Diplomacy. An actual skill (before healthy adders of course) of 33. Now, thats already +51. But carrying on, Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Epic Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Persuasiveness, Sacred Vow (+2 to diplomacy),Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Peace (+4 to diplomacy), Epic Reputation (+4 to diplomacy) and the skill artistry from first level Exemplar is another +4. Thats +29 extra. And of course you put five ranks into sense motive, bluff, and Knowledge Nobility and royalty. Thats +6 extra. Now altogether that is +86. Now minus ten to do it in six seconds, and take ten (using Skill Mastery). Thats 86. Even with a will save or, heck, even using Rich's rules, you can still get the poor crab to sell you its power and soul for a nice cottage by the sea. And all you have to do is win initiative and take a full round action.

That my friends, is called diplomacy cheese.

[Zombie_Love]

Thank you Fax! You just gave me a BBEG that is totally running everything behind the scenes. Very awesome.:smallcool:

[Arakune]

Thank you Fax! You just gave me a BBEG that is totally running everything behind the scenes. Very awesome.:smallcool:

DM:And now the BBEG show it's face!
Player1: A crab? It's a DAMN CRAB? That's your BBEG? Let's kill this thing to show you to not mock us :smallfurious: !
...
Player1:...
DM: Well, as you already said, it's a DAMN crab:smallbiggrin: !
Player1: ... shut up :smallannoyed: .

[Zombie_Love]

*snip*
DM: Well, as you already said, it's a DAMN crab:smallbiggrin: !
Player1: ... shut up :smallannoyed: .

EXACTLY! :smallamused:

[Bauglir]

Hm, having looked at its domains, I'd suggest Ocean OR Water (kinda redundant), and Celerity (not sure how this gets it, to begin with).

[Fax Celestis]

Hm, having looked at its domains, I'd suggest Ocean OR Water (kinda redundant), and Celerity (not sure how this gets it, to begin with).

Having a 200'+ landspeed. That's how.

[Fiery Justice]

Whats the starting wealth of a level 33 character?

[Bauglir]

Ah, that would explain the Celerity domain. So what do we get rid of, then?

[RTGoodman]

I'd say get rid of Ocean. The granted power is basically useless for DPPDC, and some of the spells are, too. The Water domain at least has turning Fire creatures - good-bye, Mr. Red Dragon!

Either that, or give up Animal, since the DPPDC is really a vermin. Of course, losing the Animal domain also forces it to give up Shapechange cheese, if he's even gonna bother using it.

[Bauglir]

Ok, but the Crab has 5, so we've got to lose another one, too. Choices to lose are Ocean, Water, Celerity, Animal, Watery Death.

[Solo]

Ocean. Definately Ocean.

[Tor the Fallen]

I like how Fax told us to beat his munchkined cheesausaurus without using cheese.

Not.

[Fax Celestis]

I like how Fax told us to beat his munchkined cheesausaurus without using cheese.

Not.

You know how you do it? Force it to fail a massive damage save. This requires two things: 1. Deal it 50 damage in one attack. 2. Make it fail a Fort save.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Wizard with wish and a barbarian/hulking hurler/war hulk cracks it's shell?

[Anxe]

The simple answer is you find the natural enemy of crabs. So what we need is a Pseudonatural Paragon Divine Titanic Seal.

[GoC]

I'd asy you should lose the Animal and Oceon domains.
Animal doesn't fit at all and Oceon's pretty weak.

[Tor the Fallen]

I'd asy you should lose the Animal and Oceon domains.
Animal doesn't fit at all and Oceon's pretty weak.

Ocean makes more sense than water, though, as most crabs live in salt or brackish water, not all water.

[Kaelik]

You know how you do it? Force it to fail a massive damage save. This requires two things: 1. Deal it 50 damage in one attack. 2. Make it fail a Fort save.

Yep, and I'm pretty sure a Damage built Warlock will end up forcing 50 damage every time he hits. And he should hit a fair amount, even if it is every other round (wand of true strike). The only problem is that as a Divine being with Domains (aka 9th lvl spells) I'm afraid I'd have to go further into epic. Not that I couldn't argue for epic Hellfire Warlock progression.

[OneWinged4ngel]

Simple really (although I'm sure its already been done):
One Half Elf Level 29 Bard/1 Exemplar (CoAdv) using the BoED.
Base Charisma: 25 (18+7). +6 (Cloak of Charisma) and +5 (Tome of Leadership and Influence). Hitting a total of 36 or +18 to Diplomacy. An actual skill (before healthy adders of course) of 33. Now, thats already +51. But carrying on, Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Epic Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Persuasiveness, Sacred Vow (+2 to diplomacy),Vow of Nonviolence, Vow of Peace (+4 to diplomacy), Epic Reputation (+4 to diplomacy) and the skill artistry from first level Exemplar is another +4. Thats +29 extra. And of course you put five ranks into sense motive, bluff, and Knowledge Nobility and royalty. Thats +6 extra. Now altogether that is +86. Now minus ten to do it in six seconds, and take ten (using Skill Mastery). Thats 86. Even with a will save or, heck, even using Rich's rules, you can still get the poor crab to sell you its power and soul for a nice cottage by the sea. And all you have to do is win initiative and take a full round action.

That my friends, is called diplomacy cheese.

Diplomacy cheese gets far worse than that, my friend. You can get upwards of +200 by level 20 (if we're going to go into epic levels, multiply that).

As I have said before, there is a *reason* that Diplomacy is ranked next to Pun Pun on the "Most broken things on CharOp" list. Diplomacy gives a flat DC and scales more quickly than almost every other skill to boot.

[Zeful]

I wonder if Fax has posted this on the CharOp board yet, I'd like to see what they think of it.

[Arbitrarity]

Yep, and I'm pretty sure a Damage built Warlock will end up forcing 50 damage every time he hits. And he should hit a fair amount, even if it is every other round (wand of true strike). The only problem is that as a Divine being with Domains (aka 9th lvl spells) I'm afraid I'd have to go further into epic. Not that I couldn't argue for epic Hellfire Warlock progression.

Umm...

A ten-level prestige class can progress beyond 10th level, but only if the character level is already 20th or higher. A class with fewer than ten levels cannot progress beyond the maximum for that class, regardless of character level.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/basics.htm

While doable as a houserule, there isn't much of a way to get around absolute statements like that. Precedent?

[AtomicKitKat]

I'd still drop Celerity. It's not an innate thing to it, like it is with the Choker. If memory serves, the reason it even gets that 200' move speed is via Paragon and the Divine granted speed.

I'm not 100% certain, but the Massive Death rule probably doesn't apply to Deities.

[Kaelik]

Umm...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/basics.htm

While doable as a houserule, there isn't much of a way to get around absolute statements like that. Precedent?

Right, see, I don't keep track of epic rules because there is no reason to play epic (after all, we already demonstrated that a lvl 21 Wizard can make an epic spell to kill this thing no problem.)

[Idea Man]

Eureka! I have it! Yes, they mean the same thing. :smallbiggrin:

Masochism and sadism from the Book of Vile Darkness. Prep the round before combat by killing a half-dozen itty-bitty critters, then leap into battle! Giant Size. Righteous Might (if it doesn't clash, the text isn't clear enough). Divine Power. Freedom of movement. Epic magic weapon (I vote falchion!).

I recommend an insane mix of barbarian/frenzied berserker/rogue/thrall of demogorgon...what? Two full round actions at fourth level!

Anyways, I was just trying for a way to attack the crab in melee. Under normal circumstances, it is, sadly, waaay beyond warriors of any flavor, save, perhaps, ray specialists. Oh, wait, those are wizards, too.

Need a more certain arcane way to blast the thing down? Tired of the surprise, attack, retreat combo denying you the final victory you deserve? Vile Spell is your friend! Fast healing won't fix it, and it will need concecrated ground for magical healing to work. If you noticed, it can only make unhallowed ground! Just stake out the nearest shrine of goodness and wait!

As a thrall of demogorgon, I do this for my lord and master. He's out of tasty fish snacks in the Abyssal seas. :smallbiggrin:

[Snadgeros]

I've got it! A way of any character of any race of any class of any level to beat this damn crab! Toss a bag of holding into a portable hole right next to the crab! It will probably be a suicide mission though, unless you have spring attack, run in, toss it in, and run out. Although, that would provoke an AoO from the crab so you'll die anyway, but you took it down with you!

It's completely RAW and I'd consider it RAI since they were VERY specific about what happens when you do that. Maybe they built it in as a failsafe against super-monsters?

[Zincorium]

I've got it! A way of any character of any race of any class of any level to beat this damn crab! Toss a bag of holding into a portable hole right next to the crab! It will probably be a suicide mission though, unless you have spring attack, run in, toss it in, and run out. Although, that would provoke an AoO from the crab so you'll die anyway, but you took it down with you!

It's completely RAW and I'd consider it RAI since they were VERY specific about what happens when you do that. Maybe they built it in as a failsafe against super-monsters?

Uh, being sent to the Astral plane is not fatal. The crab lives, kills you, and finds some way of getting back and killing your friends and family for your annoyance.

Pretty much the only ways that work are epic spellcasting and throwing an even bigger monster at it.



On a side note, thank you Fax, I've been having a lot of fun designing theoretical monsters to beat the crab.

[namo]

Pretty much the only ways that work are epic spellcasting and throwing an even bigger monster at it.


I thought many in this thread had valid crab-killers ?

[Zincorium]

I thought many in this thread had valid crab-killers ?

From what I saw, many had valid ways of hurting the crab. There was remarkably little in the way of preventing it from killing you and simultaneously doing enough to kill the divine version of the crab, and the two generally require completely different builds.

That and a lot of people just came up with the idea and said 'win' without going into detail, and detail, I felt, needed to have been gone into.

[RTGoodman]

I was sitting in class the other day, and I had a stroke of brilliance - a way for any character of any level to take out the DPPDC! The plan was just for the character to have a Staff of Power, have a friendly wizard teleport him (via whatever spell) right on top of the Crab, and have an action readied to perform a Retributive Strike as soon as he appeared on the crab.

Of course, I just now got around to looking up the Retributive Strike thing, and apparently it's nowhere near as awesome as I thought (for this purpose, at least). It turns out that it's a maximum of 400 damage (8 x 50 charges), which, while it isn't stopped by resistances or anything, also has a DC 17 Reflex save for half :smallconfused: . The DPPDC, of course, only fails that save on a natural 1, and either way it's not enough to destroy him. Oh, and the character that does the Retributive Strike is either completely obliterated or shunted off to a random plane.

Guess it's back to the drawing board...

[Fax Celestis]

Oh, hey, look. I've used Goodman Games' Metatemplate to make a Half-Damn Crab template.

Half-Crab
Half-Crab is an inherited template that can be applied to any living, corporeal creature.

Size
A half-crab's size does not change.

Type
If the base creature is an Animal, its type becomes Vermin. If the base creature's type is Fey, Giant, Humanoid, Monstrous Humanoid, or Ooze, its type becomes Aberration. Creatures of other types do not change their types. The creature gains the Augmented and Amphibious subtypes.

Hit Dice
Increase racial Hit Dice by one die size, to a maximum of d8.

Speed
The base creature's land speed increases by 10'. The base creature also gains a 15' swim speed. If the base creature already has a swim speed, increase it by 15' instead.

Armor Class
The base creature gains a +4 natural armor bonus. If the base creature already has a natural armor bonus, increase it by 4 points.

Attacks
The base creature gains two claw attacks. These are natural attacks and deal good damage for a creature of it's size (so that a Medium creature would deal 1d6, a Small creature 1d4, and a Large creature 1d8).

Special Attacks
Improved Grab (Ex): If a half-crab hits an opponent that is at least one size category smaller than itself with a claw attack, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it gets a hold, it also constricts on the same round.

Constrict (Ex): With a successful grapple check, a half-crab can crush a grabbed opponent, dealing normal claw damage.

Special Qualities
A half-crab is amphibious and can survive in water and outside of water equally well. A half-crab also gains darkvision out to 60'. A half-crab also gains access to the following abilities:

Mixed Blood (Ex): For all special abilities and effects, a half-crab is considered both the base creature and a crab.

Verminlike Mind (Ex): A half-crab gains a +4 racial bonus versus mind-affecting spells and effects.

Abilities
Str +2, Dex +2, Con +4, Cha -4 (minimum 3)

LA
+2

[MCerberus]

Oh, hey, look. I've used Goodman Games' Metatemplate to make a Half-Damn Crab template.

Half-Crab
Half-Crab is an inherited template that can be applied to any living, corporeal creature.

Size
A half-crab's size does not change.

Type
If the base creature is an Animal, its type becomes Vermin. If the base creature's type is Fey, Giant, Humanoid, Monstrous Humanoid, or Ooze, its type becomes Aberration. Creatures of other types do not change their types. The creature gains the Augmented and Amphibious subtypes.

Hit Dice
Increase racial Hit Dice by one die size, to a maximum of d8.

Speed
The base creature's land speed increases by 10'. The base creature also gains a 15' swim speed. If the base creature already has a swim speed, increase it by 15' instead.

Armor Class
The base creature gains a +4 natural armor bonus. If the base creature already has a natural armor bonus, increase it by 4 points.

Attacks
The base creature gains two claw attacks. These are natural attacks and deal good damage for a creature of it's size (so that a Medium creature would deal 1d6, a Small creature 1d4, and a Large creature 1d8).

Special Attacks
Improved Grab (Ex): If a half-crab hits an opponent that is at least one size category smaller than itself with a claw attack, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it gets a hold, it also constricts on the same round.

Constrict (Ex): With a successful grapple check, a half-crab can crush a grabbed opponent, dealing normal claw damage.

Special Qualities
A half-crab is amphibious and can survive in water and outside of water equally well. A half-crab also gains darkvision out to 60'. A half-crab also gains access to the following abilities:

Mixed Blood (Ex): For all special abilities and effects, a half-crab is considered both the base creature and a crab.

Verminlike Mind (Ex): A half-crab gains a +4 racial bonus versus mind-affecting spells and effects.

Abilities
Str +2, Dex +2, Con +4, Cha -4 (minimum 3)

LA
+2

So half-crab humans look like crabs... talk like people. CRAB PEOPLE. CRAB PEOPLE. (sorry had to)

[brian c]

When it says it's considered both the base creature and a crab, that means Vermin type, right?

Also, since it says LA +2, is it CR +2 also? That allows for a CR 2 1/2 or even CR 2 half-damn crab if you choose the right base creature (Half-Crab Kobold anyone?)

[Catch]

Oh, hey, look. I've used Goodman Games' Metatemplate to make a Half-Damn Crab template.

Half-Crab
Half-Crab is an inherited template that can be applied to any living, corporeal creature.

Size
A half-crab's size does not change.

Type
If the base creature is an Animal, its type becomes Vermin. If the base creature's type is Fey, Giant, Humanoid, Monstrous Humanoid, or Ooze, its type becomes Aberration. Creatures of other types do not change their types. The creature gains the Augmented and Amphibious subtypes.

Hit Dice
Increase racial Hit Dice by one die size, to a maximum of d8.

Speed
The base creature's land speed increases by 10'. The base creature also gains a 15' swim speed. If the base creature already has a swim speed, increase it by 15' instead.

Armor Class
The base creature gains a +4 natural armor bonus. If the base creature already has a natural armor bonus, increase it by 4 points.

Attacks
The base creature gains two claw attacks. These are natural attacks and deal good damage for a creature of it's size (so that a Medium creature would deal 1d6, a Small creature 1d4, and a Large creature 1d8).

Special Attacks
Improved Grab (Ex): If a half-crab hits an opponent that is at least one size category smaller than itself with a claw attack, it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it gets a hold, it also constricts on the same round.

Constrict (Ex): With a successful grapple check, a half-crab can crush a grabbed opponent, dealing normal claw damage.

Special Qualities
A half-crab is amphibious and can survive in water and outside of water equally well. A half-crab also gains darkvision out to 60'. A half-crab also gains access to the following abilities:

Mixed Blood (Ex): For all special abilities and effects, a half-crab is considered both the base creature and a crab.

Verminlike Mind (Ex): A half-crab gains a +4 racial bonus versus mind-affecting spells and effects.

Abilities
Str +2, Dex +2, Con +4, Cha -4 (minimum 3)

LA
+2

Any living corporeal creature? Ugh, this is worse than contemplating the origin of the Owlbear. It's like looking into the Far Realm and discovering that the secret that lies beyond the known universe is bizarre crab sex.

Other than that, it seems okay, though I'd rather not see it applied to anything bipedal.

"Half-Orc? I should be so lucky..."

[Fax Celestis]

Any living corporeal creature? Ugh, this is worse than contemplating the origin of the Owlbear. It's like looking into the Far Realm and discovering that the secret that lies beyond the known universe is bizarre crab sex.

Other than that, it seems okay, though I'd rather not see it applied to anything bipedal.

"Half-Orc? I should be so lucky..."

I just don't like being restrictive. If a owlbear and a damn crab love each other very much...

[Idea Man]

Honestly Fax, are you trying to get a paragon divine advanced kraken (add additional templates as desired) to eat this thing and it's progeny?

Because you're doing a beautiful job! :smallbiggrin:

[Mike_Lemmer]

Honestly Fax, are you trying to get a paragon divine advanced kraken (add additional templates as desired) to eat this thing and it's progeny?

Because you're doing a beautiful job! :smallbiggrin:

I smell a Godzilla movie in the works...

[Arbitrarity]

When it says it's considered both the base creature and a crab, that means Vermin type, right?

Also, since it says LA +2, is it CR +2 also? That allows for a CR 2 1/2 or even CR 2 half-damn crab if you choose the right base creature (Half-Crab Kobold anyone?)

That's not how adding fractional CR works, as I recall. +1 CR to a CR 1/8 is CR 1/6, +1 CR to that is CR 1/4, +1 CR to that is CR 1/3, +1 to that is CR 1/2, +1 to that is CR 1. Then it starts going as normal.

For example, kobolds have the following in their entry...
Challenge Rating
Kobolds with levels in NPC classes have a CR equal to their character level -3


And the warrior (NPC class) in the entry is CR 1/4, so character level 1, -3 = CR, i.e. 1/4.

Yes, it's horrible math.

[vampire2948]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2013195&postcount=89

that's one less crab to worry about.

[Fiery Justice]

Assuming you could somehow trick the crab into running into it a Iron Colossus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/colossus.htm#ironColossus) may be just what the doctor ordered. If required, make it a deity.

It projects an anti-magic field of 100-feet. It is itself immune to magic even ignoring that. Its DR is higher then the Crab's. And while it lacks fast healing, it has almost 100 HD anyway. The biggest problem is speed.

[Skjaldbakka]

:sigh: Braaaiiiinnnnssss . . . .

[drivebyposter]

TL;DR

psion
psicrystal afinity psicrystal contianment quikcen pwr maximize pwr
quikcened bend riality to win SR
maximised ego whip for 20 cha damage will half
crab has only 17 cha

kthxbai.

[Armads]

TL;DR

psion
psicrystal afinity psicrystal contianment quikcen pwr maximize pwr
quikcened bend riality to win SR
maximised ego whip for 20 cha damage will half
crab has only 17 cha

kthxbai.

It's immune to mind-affecting effects.

[Doresain]

what level spell is orb of acid?

not sure if its still relevant or not, but i think i figured out a way to kill the crab with an artificer...just need to know what level that damn spell is

[Hallavast]

what level spell is orb of acid?

not sure if its still relevant or not, but i think i figured out a way to kill the crab with an artificer...just need to know what level that damn spell is

4th ... see sig for filler.

[Doresain]

in that case, become a human artificer with two wands of orb of acid, one in each caster glove you have...at level 33, hes got plenty of feats to spend on metamagics, lots of personally made gear (thus cheaper), as well as metamagic spell trigger...so give yourself wings of flying, custom ring of true strike(doesnt even have to be permanent), DEX increasing stuff, at least one of the previously stated wands and the following feats: energy substitution (sonic), energy admixture (sonic), quicken spell, twin spell, and maximize spell (not to mention the dozens of other metamagic feats you can pick up)...now assuming i did my math right thats at least a +41 (not including DEX mod) to hit touch AC, for 720 sonic damage...in one turn...

edit: unless im mixing the max spell level for the wand with that of potions...curses for not having my PHB!!!

[Hallavast]

edit: unless im mixing the max spell level for the wand with that of potions...curses for not having my PHB!!!

Nope. You're good. Potions are max 3rd. Wands are max 4th.

[Doresain]

Nope. You're good. Potions are max 3rd. Wands are max 4th.

alright...wasnt sure atm, due to lack of books

[Psiborg]

Does this monstrosity have to breathe? I mean, I know it's safe both in and out of water, but what about vacume? Submerged in mud? At the bottom on a liquid mercury ocean?

My assumption about the PPDC is that the only thing possibly saving you from it is the fact that while it has an 18 intelligence, it's still a crab at heart. A very, very intelligent crab, but that is in the same sense as saying that a parrot is a very, very intelligent bird. They are both still crabs and birds, respectively.

You also have to figure that the battle against PPDC is initated either very soon after it reached it's current state (assuming that it was previously much less intelligent, less powerful, and possibly nonexistant alltogether) or on a plane that it has reduced entirely to rubble. This is due to two factors.

1. If the PPDC is allowed to roam unchecked through battle for too long, it's 18 intelligence could very likely mean that it learns tactics far beyond that of a hyper-intelligent vermin. This is a bad thing.
2. If the PPDC is allowed to roam unchecked for long, it will quickly destroy everything in its path. Since I see no way for it to travel to another plane without assistance (and unless it picks up more intelligence/experience to get beyond the vermin level, I doubt that it will allow a target to continue existing long enough to provide significant aid), it will quickly destroy anything that gains its attention. We're talking a planar extinction-level event here.

If you are confronting the PPDC while it is still inexperienced, you will have the ability to suprise it. This is the "Whale-and-petunian-I'll-call-it-ground-I-wonder-if-it'll-be-my-friend" scenario brought to an extreme. If you can keep the PPDG from learning that the "ground" will not in fact be it's friend, then you might be able to suprise it with a fatal maneuver. One of my first ideas was to use a system of Gates.


Gate A is at the bottom of a Big#$*&ing Cliff, and connects to the Elemental Plane of Fire.
At the top of that Big#$*&ing Cliff, you have an individual hurling Heavy Mass X. Perhaps pre-shrunk Walls of Iron. Just make them as large as you can while fitting in the Gate.
Gate A exits onto the Elemental Plane of Fire at some position, pointing down at the entrance to Gate B, which leads back to whatever plane that PPDG is on.
Gate B exits onto the plane that PPDC is on, and is infact aimed at the beast. This is either due to lureing PPDC there, or better yet pointed at wherever the hell PPDC rests while not destroying happiness and sanity itself.
Heavy Mass X is dropped from Big#$*&ing Cliff which gives it enough time to reach terminal velocity before entering Gate A, where it travels through the Elemental Plane of Fire just long enough to raise its temperature to the level of OMFG That's Hot and exits through Gate B before being incinerated; Heavy Mass X is now hopefully targeting the PPDC at terminal velocity for a mass just a few meters smaller than the dimensions of a Gate spell and at a temperature that should cause retinal damage just by looking at it.
PPDC is hit by force comparable to a nuclear bomb, as is anything within a significant radius.


I'm not sure how much damage that would do, but I'm going to say "lots". You could also rig multiple Gates allong the bottom of Big#$*&ing Cliff if you are aware of the risks of PPDC D-Dooring out of the way of the first one.

Or hell, dump buckets of Beads of Force over the entire area.

[Citizen Jenkins]

Well, I thought I'd jump to the head of the GiTP hunt club and go after this guy with Bob. If you're not familiar with Bob, he's a Level 6 Gnome Wizard with a level of Tainted Scholar and two levels of Fatespinner. His relevant feats are Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy) along with Malign Spell Focus (BoVD). He's also maxed out his UMD skill. Here it goes.
PS. For this plan, Bob has the break the WBL guidelines but he's certainly capable of killing an adult dragon to finance this. This also uses 1 spell and 1 drug from the Forgotten Realms setting.
Plan to kill the DPPDC:
Gather together the following items: Ring of Arcane Might (CA), Orange Ioun Stone, Belt of Battle (MiC), 9 human commoners, 2 doses of Panacolo (LOD), 1 dose of Terran Brandy (BoVD), 1 dose of Mushroom Powder (BoVD). 1 very tough gem worth at least 100 gp, 1 scroll of Consumptive Field (LM), 1 Scroll of Contingency, 1 Scroll of Mystic Surge, 1 Scroll of Lower Spell Resistance (CL 14, Bob scribed this himself, from the Draconomicon), 1 large zombie.
Bob has the minimum Taint for a severe rating (30)
Spells Cast a day or more in Advance: Planar Binding (1 Bar-Lugura (BoVD), ordered to teleport whoever says a specific password to the DPPDC ).
Spells prepared:
5th Level: 2 Magic Jars
4th Level: 1 Silent Alter Fortune (PHII), 1 Spell Enhance (MoF), 1 Celerity (PHII), 1 Assay Spell Resistance (CA),
3rd Level: 2 Fireballs
2nd: Eagle’s Splendor
1st: True Casting (CM), 1 Silent Flare
Prep: Bob casts Magic Jar on the one unchained commoner, takes over his body, then outfits his new body with the Ring of Arcane Might and the Orange Ioun Stone. Bob proceeds to ingest the Terran Brandy and the Mushroom Powder, as well as casting Eagle’s Splendor. 7 of the other commoners are chained up in a separate room, all together on a far wall. One other is held against the nearest wall by one of Bob’s undead minion. Bob then walks into the room and uses his UMD skill to cast Consumptive Field from the Scroll. Once he does, it lasts 7 rounds:
Round 1: Consumptive Field is cast
Round 2: Bob consumes a dose of Panacolo
Round 3: Bob consumes a second dose of Panacolo
Round 4: Bob fireballs all the commoners, using their deaths to fuel his Consumptive Field.
Round 5: Bob casts True Casting
Round 6: Bob casts Mystic Surge from a scroll as a standard action, casts Spell Enhance as a Free Action, casts Celerity as an immediate action, and casts Magic Jar as a standard action. As he casts, Bob uses his Blood Component ability as a Tainted Scholar, uses his Spin Fate ability as a Fatespinner to spin the spell, and uses the soul from the first magic jar spell as a spell component. The 2nd Magic Jar now has the following stats:
Caster Level against SR: 9(base) +7(Consumptive Field) +10(True Casting) +1(Ioun Stone) +1(Ring of Arcane Might) +2(Terran Brandy) +10(Soul in Container spell component ala BoVD) +1(Mystic Surge) +1(Blood Component)=42
Spell DC: 15(base) +15(Corruption bonus) +3(Panacolo overdose) +2(Spell Enhance) +2(Mystic Surge) +2(Spin Fate) +4(Feats)=DC 43
Bob grabs the body of the living commoner held by his undead minion. He telepathically orders his minion to release him then equips himself with the belt of battle, the Magic Jar gem, and the scroll of Lower Spell Resistance. He then uses the Scroll of Contingency to set a Fireball contingency on himself, set to detonate as soon as he activates the Belt of Battle. He then walks over to the Bar-Lugura and speaks the command word.
Both the Bar-Lagura and Bob, in his new body are now in front of the DPPDC in a surprise round. Bob can act since he didn’t do the teleporting. He casts Lower Spell Resistance as a standard action, dropping the DPPDC’s SR by 14, casts Assay Spell Resistance as a swift action, and activates the Belt of Battle. As soon as he does, his current body is destroyed by the contingent Fireball and his soul automatically returns to his gem, complete with his Full Round Action he has yet to use. He then uses Surge of Malevolence and attempts to possess the DPPDC. At this point, his Magic Jar’s +42 to beat spell SR has increased by 9 from the Surge of Malevolence and 10 from the Assay Spell Resistance, giving him a +61 against the Crab’s new SR of 66. Bob now has a 80% chance to beat the Crab’s SR and if he fails, he uses his silent Alter Fortune as an immediate action to reroll it, giving him a 96% chance to beat the Crab’s SR. After that, the Crab has a +28 Will save against Bob’s DC 43 check, with a 30% chance to beat it. However, if the Crab does succeed, Bob uses his Fickle Finger of Fate ability to force a reroll, giving the Crab a 9% chance of success. Overall chance of success for Bob is roughly 87%.
Presuming he’s now captured the Crab’s body, Bob now walks over to the gem and casts a silent Flare, using the Crab’s soul as a spell component, consuming it utterly. If that doesn’t work, Bob merely kills himself in the Crab’s body, leaving the soul with nowhere to go.

There are two things that worry me about this build. First, I'm not positive that Bob gets that surprise round after teleporting in with the Bar-Lagura, even though he hasn't taken any actions. Second, I'm not sure if the Belt of Battle requires some kind of action to activate because I don't actually own that book, I know of the item only through it's reputation.

[Foeofthelance]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff0tzipxw44

The Crab itself is deadly. It is its followers and adepts we should be scared of...

[Rumda]

You know how you do it? Force it to fail a massive damage save. This requires two things: 1. Deal it 50 damage in one attack. 2. Make it fail a Fort save.

so to beat the giant enemy crab we have to hit its weak spot of MASSIVE DAMAGE

[vegetalss4]

please note that the Divine crab can NOT i repeat NOT use its domain spells.
it needs to be divine rank 1 for that.

[Keld Denar]

He casts Lower Spell Resistance as a standard action, dropping the DPPDC’s SR by 14, casts Assay Spell Resistance as a swift action, and activates the Belt of Battle.

/snip

There are two things that worry me about this build. First, I'm not positive that Bob gets that surprise round after teleporting in with the Bar-Lagura, even though he hasn't taken any actions. Second, I'm not sure if the Belt of Battle requires some kind of action to activate because I don't actually own that book, I know of the item only through it's reputation.

You are correct sir, the Belt of Battle requires a swift action to activate, which means you either can't cast ASR or you can't use the BoB. Choose your weapon carefully!

PS, granting yourself an additional full round action via BoB does not give you an extra swift action. It does give you an extra move and standard or a full round action. Nowhere does it give you an extra swift with it. Bummer...

EDIT: You could get around the effective loss of 10 CL by using a scroll of Greater Consumptive Field and more commoner sacrifices. Seriously, is there anything that can't be accomplished through the sacrifice of more commoners? (other than prevent the sacrifice of said commoners)

[FlyMolo]

Beating the crab is easy. Get beshadowed blast, IIRC allows no save but SR, get a team of warlocks. They all take beshadowed blast, and Supernatural Transformation from SS. Turns a a single spell-like(like your eldritch blast) into a (su) ability. no AoO, no SR. Then you simply blast away. Fell flight with big rocks, for double bonus cookies.

[Frosty]

holy thread necromancy batman!

[mostlyharmful]

The Posting Undead Among Us!

[Xuincherguixe]

Well, now we need some appropriate ability where it comes back from the dead when defeated.

[monty]

My thread necromancy sense is tingling!

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: Thread necromancy is not allowed. It needlessly uses up my holy water rounds putting these things down.