That Pseudonatural Paragon Damn Crab!

[Fax Celestis]

Awesome. Fearsome. Bow before the crab.

PSEUDONATURAL PARAGON ADVANCED HUGE MONSTROUS CRAB (CR 33)
N Huge Outsider (extraplanar, aquatic, augmented vermin)
Init +13; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent, Listen +42, Spot +37
Languages Aquan
AC 83 (Size -2, Dex +13, Luck +15, Insight +12, +35 Natural), touch 48, flat-footed 70
hp 544 (16 HD)
Immune mind-affecting effects
Resist fire 10, cold 10, electricity 35, acid 35
DR 15/epic
SR 80
Fort +34, Ref +28, Will +28
Spd 180 ft. (36 squares)
Melee epic tentacle +78 (2d8+46) or
Melee epic claw +78 (2d6+46) or
Melee 5 epic tentacles +78 (2d8+46) and
Melee 2 epic claws +78 (2d6+46)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Base Atk +12; Grp +82
Atk Options constrict 4d6+46, improved grab, rotting constriction
Abilities Str 63, Dex 36, Con 39, Int 18, Wis 36, Cha 17
SQ amphibious, fast healing 20, constant insight, spell-like abilities, alternate form
Feats ToughnessB, Combat Reflexes, Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Awesome Blow, Multiattack, Improved Multiattack
Skills Balance +42, Climb +55, Hide +27, Jump +55, Listen +42, Move Silently +31, Spot +37, Tumble +42

Amphibious (Ex): Although an advanced Huge monstrous crab is aquatic, it can survive indefinitely on land.

Constrict (Ex): An advanced Huge monstrous crab deals damage equal to twice its normal claw damage plus its Strength bonus on a successful grapple check.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an advanced Huge monstrous crab must hit with a claw or tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple with a +13 bonus as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Rotting Constriction (Ex)
Once the creature has hold of an opponent, each successful grapple check it makes during subsequent rounds permanently drains 2d4 points of Constitution. At the same time, the creature regains 10 lost hit points.

Constant Insight (Su)
The creature makes all its attacks with a +15 insight bonus. The creature is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target. This bonus is included in the statistics above.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)
At will—blur, dimension door, shield, unhallow. Caster level 35th.
3/day—greater dispel, see invisibility, haste. Caster level 15th.

The DCs are Charisma-based.

Alternate Form (Su)
At will, a pseudonatural creature can take the form of a grotesque, tentacled mass (or another appropriately gruesome form), but all its abilities remain unchanged despite the alien appearance. Changing shape is a standard action. Other creatures receive a -1 morale penalty on their attack rolls against pseudonatural creatures in this alternate form.
En garde, bitches.

[Obscura]

The AC is rather impressive but the saves are fairly lacking, a lvl 20 wizard shouldnt have much trouble...

a lvl 30 wizard could look at it and kill it(auto still, auto silence ftw)...

[Dhavaer]

Could you give a breakdown of the AC? (Dex, Natural, etc)

[Fax Celestis]

The AC is rather impressive but the saves are fairly lacking, a lvl 20 wizard shouldnt have much trouble...

a lvl 30 wizard could look at it and kill it(auto still, auto silence ftw)...

How is a L30 wizard going to get past SR 80 with anything effective when the crab can also dimdoor at will?

[Fax Celestis]

Could you give a breakdown of the AC? (Dex, Natural, etc)

AC: 10, Size -2, Dex +13, Luck +15, Insight +12, +35 Natural. So, 83 actually.

[Skjaldbakka]

What's the CR on that thing?

[Fax Celestis]

What's the CR on that thing?

33, technically.

[Skjaldbakka]

Who wants to make a level 33 party and have a go at this thing? I call the level 33 fighter appetizer.

[Obscura]

Ack my bad... that sr is ridiculous...

My mind probably censored it for me...

Edit: umm... can I be the level 33 bard that speaks aquan?

Diplomacy is still more broken then that crab...

Edit: LOL that grapple bonus with the con damage is fighter bane...

[dyslexicfaser]

Awesome. Fearsome. Bow before the crab.

PSEUDONATURAL PARAGON ADVANCED HUGE MONSTROUS CRAB (CR 33)
N Huge Outsider (extraplanar, aquatic, augmented vermin)
Init +13; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent, Listen +23, Spot +27
Languages Aquan
AC 83 (Size -2, Dex +13, Luck +15, Insight +12, +35 Natural), touch 48, flat-footed 70
hp 435 (16 HD)
Immune mind-affecting effects
Resist fire 10, cold 10, electricity 35, acid 35
DR 15/epic
SR 80
Fort +34, Ref +28, Will +28
Spd 180 ft. (36 squares)
Melee epic tentacle +78 (2d8+46) or
Melee epic claw +78 (2d6+46) or
Melee 5 epic tentacles +78 (2d8+46) and
Melee 2 epic claws +78 (2d6+46)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Base Atk +12; Grp +82
Atk Options constrict 4d6+46, improved grab, rotting constriction
Abilities Str 63, Dex 36, Con 39, Int 3, Wis 36, Cha 17
SQ amphibious, fast healing 20, constant insight, spell-like abilities, alternate form
Feats ToughnessB, Combat Reflexes, Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Awesome Blow, Multiattack, Improved Multiattack
Skills Hide +27, Move Silently +21, Spot +27

Amphibious (Ex): Although an advanced Huge monstrous crab is aquatic, it can survive indefinitely on land.

Constrict (Ex): An advanced Huge monstrous crab deals damage equal to twice its normal claw damage plus its Strength bonus on a successful grapple check.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an advanced Huge monstrous crab must hit with a claw or tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple with a +13 bonus as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Rotting Constriction (Ex)
Once the creature has hold of an opponent, each successful grapple check it makes during subsequent rounds permanently drains 2d4 points of Constitution. At the same time, the creature regains 10 lost hit points.

Constant Insight (Su)
The creature makes all its attacks with a +15 insight bonus. The creature is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target. This bonus is included in the statistics above.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)
At will—blur, dimension door, shield, unhallow. Caster level 20th. The DCs are Charisma-based.

Alternate Form (Su)
At will, a pseudonatural creature can take the form of a grotesque, tentacled mass (or another appropriately gruesome form), but all its abilities remain unchanged despite the alien appearance. Changing shape is a standard action. Other creatures receive a -1 morale penalty on their attack rolls against pseudonatural creatures in this alternate form.
En garde, bitches.

... hold me.

*cowers before the crab*

[Fax Celestis]

Ack my bad... that sr is ridiculous...

My mind probably censored it for me...

Edit: umm... can I be the level 33 bard that speaks aquan?

Diplomacy is still more broken then that crab...

Immune: Mind-Affecting. Most of the Diplomancer's magical arsenal is mind-affecting. And Diplomacy doesn't always go so well.

[AtomicKitKat]

How come it's getting 16 more HP than I calculated?

16*12(Paragon maximised)
+
16*14(1/2 Constitution 39-10, rounded down to nearest even)
+
3(Toughness)
=
419 HP.

Edit: Looked up the template again.

16*12(Paragon extra HPs per HD)
+
16*14(1/2 Constitution 39-10, rounded down to nearest even)
+
16*8(Outsider)
+
3(Toughness)
=
547 HP.

[Lord Iames Osari]

Gah! Kill it with antimatter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2010735#post2010735)!

[Obscura]

36 ranks in diplo with +4 cha bonus puts me at +40 plus feats and epic feats...

I'd say he could roll the 50 for helpful using a rushed diplo check

[dyslexicfaser]

IT IS UNSTOPPABLE!

The seas run red with the blood of foolish epic adventurers, and it's grapples are the stuff of a thousand sweat-soaked nightmares!

Our only chance is to prostrate ourselves before it, and hope that it finds it in its (merciless) heart to forgive us our trespass of existing, and allow us to serve it all the days of our lives.

[Yeril]

Easy kill.

1 high charisma epic paladin with epic leadership feats and legendary commander

about 50,000 1st level warmage followers.

Orb of sonic X 50,000

:smallwink:

[dyslexicfaser]

36 ranks in diplo with +4 cha bonus puts me at +40 plus feats and epic feats...

I'd say he could roll the 50 for helpful using a rushed diplo check

Can you diplomacy a mindless creature?

[AtomicKitKat]

Enervation. Lots and lots and lots of it. Make sure to bring along your Automatic Quickened True Strike to hit that Touch AC of 48.

Crap. Enervation has SR. Ray of Enfeeblement I guess. Plus whatever else.

Edit: Bah. Keep remembering all these spells that are apparently No Saving Throw, but allow SR.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Sorceror 20. Cloudkill, maxed cloudkill, twinned cloudkill, the works. I bet the crab runs out of constitution before the 20th level sorceror runs out of spell slots.

You could also forcecage it, use a Limited Wish to automatically succeed in your next attack roll and Dimensionally Anchor it. Then you'll only need a single cloudkill and alot of running around so the cloud redirects over the crab again and again.

[Obscura]

Can you diplomacy a mindless creature?(I don't have every line of core and non-core books memerized so excuse me if I make obvious mistakes.)

What makes it mindless? it has 3 int and it can speak...

The crab might be stupid but a level 33 diplomacy bard could talk me into bed awfully quick...:smallredface:

[AtomicKitKat]

Shapeshift into something that has Supernatural abilities. Preferrably derived from spells that would normally allow Spell Resistance but have no saving throws.

[Obscura]

Shapeshift into something that has Supernatural abilities. Preferrably derived from spells that would normally allow Spell Resistance but have no saving throws.

Edit: 15 HD... hmmm

[kpenguin]

Oh yeah? Pun-Pun.

[Reinboom]

Sorceror 20. Cloudkill, maxed cloudkill, twinned cloudkill, the works. I bet the crab runs out of constitution before the 20th level sorceror runs out of spell slots.

You could also forcecage it, use a Limited Wish to automatically succeed in your next attack roll and Dimensionally Anchor it. Then you'll only need a single cloudkill and alot of running around so the cloud redirects over the crab again and again.

Dimensional Anchor is hard pressed to get apast the SR, though enough cloudkill would work, eventually.
Hmmn, is there a template that gives poison immunity that can be added?

[lord_khaine]

that crab isnt that hard, it cant fly and doesnt have see invisibility, most casters should be able to take it down solo at around lv 17.

[Obscura]

that crab isnt that hard, it cant fly and doesnt have see invisibility, most casters should be able to take it down solo at around lv 17.

Already suggested that, look at spell resistance...

[AtomicKitKat]

Looks like it's time for:

SUPER WARLOCK!

:smalleek:: Me?
YES YOU!
:smallconfused:: But how?
Did you take Fell Flight?
:smallconfused:: Yes, but wha...
Did you take Vitriolic Blast?
:smallconfused:: Yes, but ho...
Then YOU, YES YOU! can take down this monster!
:smallbiggrin:: Hooray! I'm useful at last!

Edit: Too bad 9d6 will mean that even maximised, he's only doing 19 damage a round, which is not enough to beat the Fast Healing. A group of them however...

Edit2: The extra 2d6 per round after the first won't help either, since it would get blocked by the Acid Resistance(which is per instance and not per round). Retributive Invisibility might work. If for whatever reason, someone chose to dispel it, he would be doing 4d6 Sonic damage per round, assuming he spent his 2 standard actions per round putting it up and then blasting. Would help if he's allowed to apply Automatic Quicken to his invocations.

[Skjaldbakka]

Does vitriolic blast bypass SR 80 and acid resistance 35?

[Dhavaer]

Looks like it's time for:

SUPER WARLOCK!

:smalleek:: Me?
YES YOU!
:smallconfused:: But how?
Did you take Fell Flight?
:smallconfused:: Yes, but wha...
Did you take Vitriolic Blast?
:smallconfused:: Yes, but ho...
Then YOU, YES YOU! can take down this monster!
:smallbiggrin:: Hooray! I'm useful at last!

Edit: Too bad 9d6 will mean that even maximised, he's only doing 19 damage a round, which is not enough to beat the Fast Healing. A group of them however...

35 Acid resistance. Can be overcome at level 33, probably, but still unpleasant.


Does vitriolic blast bypass SR 80 and acid resistance 35?

Vitrolic Blast bypasses SR.

[CthulhuM]

Divine Metamagic Persistent Shapeshift into a Beholder (a Great Mother, preferably) and blast away. Yeah, it'll take a while with that touch AC, but eventually it'll roll a 1 against one of the instant death affects (if you're impatient, you could just wish for it to fail its next save, lesser wish for you to hit on your next attack, and use the finger of death ray).

Or, if you're actually going to level 33, just make yourself an epic spell that says "kill target pseudonatural paragon damn crab, no save, no SR." Failing that, you could just design one that summons a cube of lead 100 feet on a side 30 feet above a designated target (EDIT: for approximately 37,000d6 damage).

[Skjaldbakka]

If I understand Resistance properly, two warlocks would be sufficient, as energy resistance reduces damage taken over a round, not per hit.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#resistanceToEnergy

[AtomicKitKat]

35 Acid resistance. Can be overcome at level 33, probably, but still unpleasant.



Vitrolic Blast bypasses SR.

Given his rather crappy EB progression, that's 9d6+1d6 per 2.5(?) levels, so

20=9d6=9*3.5=31.5
30=13d6=13*3.5=45.5
33=15d6=15*3.5=52.5

Yeah. At ECL 33, he should be averaging enough damage to just about pip the Fast Healing(35 resist+20 FH means he must do 56 per round to keep it going downwards). 2 of them should be able to knock it down for sure. *Goes off to check LoM for some hopefully better stuff to augment this).

Edit:

If I understand Resistance properly, two warlocks would be sufficient, as energy resistance reduces damage taken over a round, not per hit.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#resistanceToEnergy

Check again. 2 out of 3 sources say per instance, 1 says per round. 3.5 is per hit, 3.0 is per round.

Edit2: Read this old thread for all the old arguments on Energy Resistance. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25608)

[Skjaldbakka]

3.5 is per hit, 3.0 is per round.

But, isn't the SRD 3.5? If so, it is the 1 that says per round. Where are the two sources that say per hit?

[deadseashoals]

It doesn't fly! One sorcerer with fly and orb of force would blow through this thing, given enough spell slots and metamagic, though he would probably need true strike and greater invisibility to hit the flat-footed touch AC of 35 consistently (it doesn't see invis either... :smallconfused: )

[Dhavaer]

Check again. 2 out of 3 sources say per instance, 1 says per round. 3.5 is per hit, 3.0 is per round.

Where are the sources saying per instance?

[AtomicKitKat]

But, isn't the SRD 3.5? If so, it is the 1 that says per round. Where are the two sources that say per hit?

In the thread I linked. It's in the MM and DMG. The d20 SRD has been mailed about this before, but can't seem to be bothered to change it.

[Kaelik]

Does Hellfire ignore SR? Cause that means win!

Also, I think Warlock is probably the best for actually taking this thing out. Worst case, they have to take supernatural transformation an then two (or one) pound away.

But add in all those chausables and whatever else a Warlock can come up with, and you could probably get good enough even using acid (assuming 4 of them at level 33 assuming progression continues.) If Hellfire ignores it then it looks like lots of Warlocks with one level Binder dips are going to be Hellfireing away at this thing for a bit.

[Trixie]

Meh, lev 20 wizard/warmage can easily kill that thing. Overland flight, improved invisibility, then bombard it with maximized/empovered/normal greater orbs of force.

There! :smalltongue:

Instant win :smallbiggrin:

Orb: 15d6 dam = 52.5 dam
Max: = 90 dam
Emp: = 78.75 dam

Fast healing will allow it to survive a bit longer, but it will be killed nonetheless.

[kpenguin]

Meh, lev 20 wizard/warmage can easily kill that thing. Overland flight, improved invisibility, then bombard it with maximized/empovered/normal greater orbs of force.

There! :smalltongue:

Instant win :smallbiggrin:

Orb: 15d6 dam = 52.5 dam
Max: = 90 dam
Emp: = 78.75 dam

Fast healing will allow it to survive a bit longer, but it will be killed nonetheless.

The wizard/warmage will probably still need a natural 20 to hit the crab. Plus, the crab could always retreat with that at will Dimension Door.

EDIT: @ the flying warlocks: the crab dimension doors far above your head. 1200 ft. range means that if you're within range to EB, he can squash you.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

The warlock 20 actually works quite well. Retributive Invisibility makes the crab flat-footed and unable to see you. Supernatural Transformation enables you to bypass its SR. Utterdark Blast enables some negative levels. Fell Flight enables you to fly around.

Eventually you win no matter what the crab does-even if it escapes via its Dimension Door you'll eventually catch up (and you'll have defeated it anyway if it flees)

[Trixie]

The wizard/warmage will probably still need a natural 20 to hit the crab. Plus, the crab could always retreat with that at will Dimension Door.

EDIT: @ the flying warlocks: the crab dimension doors far above your head. 1200 ft. range means that if you're within range to EB, he can squash you.

At 20+ level, you can afford a ring of pernament [spell] true strike [I don't remember actual name] which should answer that requirement :smalltongue:

Also: if you want true cheese, use magic missile. Instant hit.
Warmage with 20 Int gets +5 to damage, so his MM's deal 5d4 +5 +5 = 22.5 dam. Warmage at 20 lev has 9*6 [54] spell slots which can be spammed with max MM [30 dam] emp MM [33.75 dam] max&emp MM [45 dam] and any other combo of damaging metamagic.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

The crab is always flat-footed against the warlock so true strike items aren't required (though they help)

[Trixie]

The crab is always flat-footed against the warlock so true strike items aren't required (though they help)

I'm using warmage/wizard/sorcerer, not warlock.

And you people say that blasters are weak :smallcool:

[kpenguin]

Also: if you want true cheese, use magic missile. Instant hit.
Warmage with 20 Int gets +5 to damage, so his MM's deal 5d4 +5 +5 = 22.5 dam. Warmage at 20 lev has 9*6 [54] spell slots which can be spammed with max MM [30 dam] emp MM [33.75 dam] max&emp MM [45 dam] and any other combo of damaging metamagic.

SR 80 eliminates Magic Missile, or really almost any other spell, as a viable way to kill the crab.

[AtomicKitKat]

The warlock 20 actually works quite well. Retributive Invisibility makes the crab flat-footed and unable to see you. Supernatural Transformation enables you to bypass its SR. Utterdark Blast enables some negative levels. Fell Flight enables you to fly around.

Eventually you win no matter what the crab does-even if it escapes via its Dimension Door you'll eventually catch up (and you'll have defeated it anyway if it flees)

Thanks. I was hoping to put Utterdark Blast, which would actually be faster than Vitriolic Blast, but was stuck with the 1 Blast Essence per EB limit. Supernatural Transformation+Ability Focus should do the trick with Utterdark.

I also found an allied party member(of sorts) for him. A Druid with Aberration Wildshape taking the form of a Gibbering Mouther, in order to leave the crab stuck in the mud.


Lords of Madness
Ground Manipulation(Su) At will, as standard action, causes all adjacent squares to become a morass akin to quicksand. Takes 1 round if the ground is softer than stone, 2 if it's stone. Anyone other than the mouther in that area must take move-equivalent action to avoid getting trapped(treat as pinned)

Note that the Druid will probably have to take the key Feat used by the Kobold who must not be named(Assume Supernatural Ability) from Savage Species in order to access this. Alternately, pick one of those Beholders. Their Eye Rays are all Supernatural, so the only difficulty is in getting the crab to fail the save. Overseer's Polar Ray looks good to me. 14d6, no save listed. The tricky part is making sure you have magical Flight of some kind, because that 5ft movespeed will lead to quick death. Maybe if you can get the Warlock or someone else to carry you. Like the Fighter.:smallbiggrin:

[mostlyharmful]

Demilich, Munch on soul... Yum:smallsmile:

No SR, unbelievably high save DC, if you make it then you take four negative levels and the consume soul attempt wasn't used up. No roll to hit and even death ward doesn't stop it.

[Trixie]

Orbs bypass it, though.

There's even better way: Solid fog. No SR. And while crab cannot move, summon wall of iron above it [or, if your gm doesn't allow that, summon it beforehand, shrink it and, while you drop it un-shrink] and wath the awesome crab hit with 20d6 on uncounterable damage. Rinse, repeat.

[kpenguin]

Orbs bypass it, though.

There's even better way: Solid fog. No SR. And while crab cannot move, summon wall of iron above it [or, if your gm doesn't allow that, summon it beforehand, shrink it and, while you drop it un-shrink] and wath the awesome crab hit with 20d6 on uncounterable damage. Rinse, repeat.

Crab dimension doors out of the fog.

[mostlyharmful]

Or a creature with a fly speed, a wounding weapon, the feat fly-by attack and a ring of invisability. Eventually it'll run out of Con, as long as it's not played smarter than it is then it won't use the dim door to run and hide until it's too late.

[Trixie]

Crab dimension doors out of the fog.

Then screw the fog and just drop invisible wall of iron on it. Works that way, too :smallbiggrin:

20d6 =70 dam. It has DR 15 [unless we enchant the wall, but that would be just stupid] so dam 55. About 8 shrunked walls should do the trick, which can be prepared beforehand :smallyuk:

[kpenguin]

Or a creature with a fly speed, a wounding weapon, the feat fly-by attack and a ring of invisability. Eventually it'll run out of Con, as long as it's not played smarter than it is then it won't use the dim door to run and hide until it's too late.

What do you mean not played smarter than it is? If you're getting hit by something that really hurts, don't you try to get the hell out of there as fast as you can. Even animals will do that and this crab is smarter than normal animals.

[Glyphic]

SUPER WARLOCK!


Looks like it's Aqua Man's time to shine!

[Trixie]

Looks like it's Aqua Man's time to shine!

Slaps Glyphic violently for opening that can of undead worms until he finally succeeds on his sanity save :smallyuk:

[mostlyharmful]

What do you mean not played smarter than it is? If you're getting hit by something that really hurts, don't you try to get the hell out of there as fast as you can. Even animals will do that and this crab is smarter than normal animals.

It's not a weapon that hurts much, your DR and Fast healing mean the actual hp reduction is minimal, the con drain feals (I would imagine) like getting tireder and tireder. The crab is being annoyed by a buzzing insect which is wearing it down with dozens of tiny cuts which would probably annoy it enough to stay long past the time it should have legged it.

[lord_khaine]

Already suggested that, look at spell resistance...

as you might have noticed, there are lots of things that ignore spell resistance.

well new competition, who is the lowest lv char that can kill that dam crab using RAI?

[Kurald Galain]

I for one welcome our new crab overlords...

[Belial_the_Leveler]

The lowest character that could do it reliably is either Warlock 19 or Sor 10/Inc 14.

The warlock does it with his supernatural Utterdark Blast. The warlock would need an average of 3000 rounds since he needs a 20 to hit and a natural 1 on the crab's fortitude save-so he hits once per 400 rounds for 2 negative levels.

The Incantatrix does it with her supernatural innate felldrain Magic Missile. She needs exactly 15 rounds of combat because she automatically hits and automatically bestows one negative level.

[bugsysservant]

Bah, Cleric with trickery domain 17. DMM persist time stop, and empties his spell repertoire on the crab. Rests, rememorizes spells, repeats. As long as the cleric has a single spell that can bypass SR 80, and with all those splatbooks, he does, he wins.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Sorry, you can't persist Time Stop because it doesn't have an actual duration-only an apparent one. And even if you could, the crab is invulnerable against your spells during the time stop.

[Trixie]

11th level wizard. Even, if he has minimum mental stats he can still cast 1 wall of iron per day. Spell is shapeable, so you just make 12 metal discs, one per day, then, at the 9, 10, 11 & 12th day you shrink them. Fly, invisibility [since you aren't technically attacking] and you attack for 55 dam per round. 12x55 = 660 >> 435 so we can afford a few misses. :smallsigh:
[actually, if someone makes walls for you or you just pick a few really big boulders you can do it at fifth level] :smallbiggrin:

Or, alternatively, level 7th for the orb of force trick. Sure, you have to buy a wand/lots of scrolls, but it will work :smallbiggrin:

[AtomicKitKat]

Do note that the crab's HP should by rights be 500+. It automatically gets maximum HP per HD(d8 for Outsider) a bonus 12 HP per HD, and then 14 more HP per HD from Constitution. This is 16*34=544HP.

[lord_khaine]

i doubt a lv 7 could hit the crab with enough orbs of force to beat its fast healing.
and as for the walls of iron, im not quite sure you would be able to hit it often enough with those either.

so far Belial_the_Leveler's fell drain magic missiles seems like both the fastest and most reliable way to get rid of that dam crab.

[RTGoodman]

I for one welcome our new crab overlords...

As do I. I mean, it could be worse - it could be the robots.


Anyway, the only way I can think of possibly defeating this thing is Massive Damage. I'm pretty sure it's RAW, so you just gotta make it take 50 damage in one hit and then hope it fails it Fort save. Or Wish that it fails or something. So realistically, the lowest-level character that could beat it is one that could do 50 damage to it without dying first.

[This all assumes that it's not immune to death effects and death from massive damage, which it could be. I don't know the Paragon template, and I don't remember the Pseudonatural template as well as I should.]

EDIT: Gah - thrice-accursed Dimension Door at will! He can just Dimension Door away from any damage unless you Dimension Lock him first or whatever. Also, he's got a 3 intelligence now, why not just change a feat to Cleave (or advance him until he gets another and take levels in War Hulk? Or for extra cheese, he's got the Wisdom to take some CoDzilla levels.

[Archonic Energy]

you are forgetting the real question...

how much seafood sauce would you need to eat it!

[MandibleBones]

how much seafood sauce would you need to eat it!

All of it.

[deadseashoals]

Here's how to beat it with a 95% chance of success at level 9, assuming you know where it is:

any race Cleric 1 / Wizard 4 / Dweomerkeeper 4
req'd feats: any item creation, Empower Spell
Buy a 16 in Dexterity, raise it to 18

1) Cast cat's grace and invisibility
2) Get within striking distance of the crab (45 feet)
3) Cast true strike
4) Cast empowered ray of stupidity using supernatural spell on the crab, which, if it hits, ignores spell resistance and deals 1d4+1 plus 50% Intelligence damage, for a minimum of 3, which happens to be its intelligence
5) Your attack roll is +4 (bab) + 20 (insight) + 6 (Dex) + 2 (invisible) for a +32 vs. its flat-footed touch AC of 35. You need a 1 or 2 to miss. Get the last +1 from some dorky effect (bless, haste, divine favor, Weapon Focus (ray), Point Blank Shot, point-buying an 18 in Dex, pick your poison)
6) CdG it until it rolls a 1 on its Fortitude save, you have all day

[Trixie]

Do note that the crab's HP should by rights be 500+. It automatically gets maximum HP per HD(d8 for Outsider) a bonus 12 HP per HD, and then 14 more HP per HD from Constitution. This is 16*34=544HP.

Still less than 660. :smallwink:

[Trixie]

Khaine says:
i doubt a lv 7 could hit the crab with enough orbs of force to beat its fast healing.
and as for the walls of iron, im not quite sure you would be able to hit it often enough with those either.

Wands have 50 charges. Also, you can make 20 or 50 walls/boulders, shrink them, pack them into a bag of holding, and then empty the bag above the crab, while flying and invisible. 1000d6 dmg, one round, one big pile of squished sushi. All on fifth level. :smallsigh:

so far Belial_the_Leveler's fell drain magic missiles seems like both the fastest and most reliable way to get rid of that dam crab.

Faster than one turn my build needs? I don't think so :smallyuk:

[Viscount Einstrauss]

That's a cool monster, Fax, but you messed up on the CR. It is very clearly a CR 17 encounter. Just look at the past TDC's.

[Zincorium]

Wands have 50 charges. Also, you can make 20 or 50 walls/boulders, shrink them, pack them into a bag of holding, and then empty the bag above the crab, while flying and invisible. 1000d6 dmg, one round, one big pile of squished sushi. All on fifth level. :smallsigh:

Faster than one turn my build needs? I don't think so :smallyuk:

A small pile of pebbles does not cause 1000 damage. 'Tossing them onto a solid surface' doesn't necessarily include the tarrasque itself (leaving aside the assumption that the boulders retain the same velocity as the pebbles). And using a command word is not as you might assume a free action when used that many times.

Your build only takes one round if you have a sympathetic DM ruling that it does work.

[Trixie]

A small pile of pebbles does not cause 1000 damage. 'Tossing them onto a solid surface' doesn't necessarily include the tarrasque itself (leaving aside the assumption that the boulders retain the same velocity as the pebbles). And using a command word is not as you might assume a free action when used that many times.


Correction: 1000d6 damage. Thats 3500 dam, actually. What pebbles? As soon as I thow them, they expand to their previous size thanks to free action [speaking exactly the same command word for all of them], which I mentioned thrice, at least.
After that, it's pure physics, unless you think that heavy stone won't fall, for somewhat reason. Why, they suddenly turn anti-grav or something? They will actually fall faster, not slower.
Unless you have gm that magically turns them into the styrofoam or haven't learned physics at all, that results will be exactly the same under any sane gm - several tons on heavy matter splatting one crab.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Psst- all things fall at the same speed regardless of weight. Simple phyics :P

[Mewtarthio]

People, you're ignoring the most important fact: The PPDC is Epic Cheese by the DM, so you can respond in kind with Epic Cheese from the player. At level 33, a Wizard is capable of Gating in Atropals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal). Simply being within 30 feet of an Atropal results in ten negative levels. Foresight/Celerity/Timestop cheese to go first, Gate in two Atropals, and have them both blast the PPDC with their eye beams. You've only called them for a few rounds, so you don't have to pay them anything (and even if you did, suffering at the hands of a pair of spurned Atropals is more than worth it for ridding the multiverse of the PPDC), so the only tricky part is making sure the PPDC doesn't escape before the Atropals tag him. There's got to be some sort of cheesy combo that denies the PPDC its SR against DimAnchor. Once it can no longer DimDoor, the PPDC is done for: The Atropals can outrun it any day.

[Keld Denar]

Expensive, but effective. Level 20 wizard

Greater Anticipate Teleport up.

Provoke it into dim dooring near you, anywhere within about 100' is fine.

Vs dim door, this spell buys you 4 rounds of what is effectively time stop (3 rounds, + dim door ends the creatures turn when it appears, so that's the 4th round) Also gives you the location of the creature to appear.

Round 1: Extended Forcecage 20' with bars
Round 2: Tap foot impatiently
Round 3: Wish (I wish I could overcome Pseudonatural Paragon Crab's SR on my next spell.
Round 4: Dimensional Lock

Congratz, you now have 80 hours (just over 3 days) to think of some other way to dispatch of el crabo, the easiest way would be a shadow swarm, an alip swarm, passing a cloud kill through it, or just renewing forcecages until it starves to death (expensive, but probably not longer than a week due to the metabolism of such a large creature). Dim Lock is permanant.

Also, agree with ray of stupidly good. Split and empowered, that's 3d4+3 (effectively) in damage, which will put it out for days. CDG for about 20 rounds straight, it'll roll a 1 eventually.

[Trixie]

Psst- all things fall at the same speed regardless of weight. Simple phyics :P

Pssst - that works only in open space. Simple physics :smallamused:

And now, go and make your homework on effects of air friction and how volume relates to surface area :smallyuk:

[Reinboom]

Two level 8 sorcerer could do it.

1st sorcerer
Human feat: Fell Drain
1st level feat: Easy Metamagic (Fell Drain)
3rd level feat: Arcane Thesis (Lesser Orb of Sound)

and uses a single fly

2nd sorcerer:
uses a lot of grease and fly.

.. just as long as the crab doesn't run away.

[Solo]

Pun Pun could eat the PPDC for breakfast...

[Zherog]

Just out of curiosity - is this using the pseudonatural template from Complete Arcane, or the epic version from the SRD?

[Skjaldbakka]

Pun Pun could eat the PPDC for breakfast...

congratulations, you've just pun-pun'ed the discussion

[Fax Celestis]

Do note that the crab's HP should by rights be 500+. It automatically gets maximum HP per HD(d8 for Outsider) a bonus 12 HP per HD, and then 14 more HP per HD from Constitution. This is 16*34=544HP.

Actually, it gets Max HP per die (Vermin dice) (128), +12 per HD from Paragon (192), and +14 per HD from Con (224). Pseudonatural changes it to Outsider, but specifically states to not recalculate based on type.

...still, calculating now, it gets 544.


Just out of curiosity - is this using the pseudonatural template from Complete Arcane, or the epic version from the SRD?

The one in the SRD.

[Funkyodor]

Price of 40 Potions of Invisibility? 12,000g.

Price of 40 Beads of Force? 120,000g.

Price of 40 Boots of Levitation? 300,000g.

Price of luring a mindless Pseudonatural Paragon Damn Crab to is doom by taking Leadership and outfitting your level 1 recruits so they can explode with the sudden level gain? Priceless!

[Fax Celestis]

I don't know where you're getting Mindless from. The Pseudonatural template gives him an Int of 3, and then the Paragon template raises it +15. This crab is immune to mind-affecting but has an Int of 18.

...to reflect this, I've altered the skill section.

[lord_khaine]

Pssst - that works only in open space. Simple physics

And now, go and make your homework on effects of air friction and how volume relates to surface area

and why dont you go home and calculate how little effect air friction actualy has on something as dense as stone?

the question whereever you can use more than one command word activation aside, you still hasnt solved how you will actualy hit the crabs ac

[Citizen Joe]

Pun Pun could eat the PPDC for breakfast...

Why does that sound like a Mechwarrior weapon for a mech?

Actually, now that I think about it, that might be an amusing mech design. Rush in, grapple enemy mech with two claws an nip off the limbs.

[Zherog]

Just out of curiosity - is this using the pseudonatural template from Complete Arcane, or the epic version from the SRD?

The one in the SRD.

That's what I expected, but it's nice to clarify.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

The problem with the wall of iron is this:

Creatures with room to flee the falling wall may do so by making successful Reflex saves. Any Large or smaller creature that fails takes 10d6 points of damage. The wall cannot crush Huge and larger creatures

So, by the spell itself the damage of the wall when it falls is capped and creatures are allowed a reflex save. I don't see why falling items that fall from higher and thus allow more time for creatures beneat to move would not allow a reflex save as well.


The second problem with dropping items is the command word. A command word is a standard action to use even if it is just speaking (which normally is a free action). And dismissing a spell or other effect (the shrink item or polymorph you used on the stones you carry) is always a standard action-for EACH spell-and you must be within range.

The third problem is that polymorph doesn't work on objects-only on WILLING creatures touched.

[Swordguy]

Why does that sound like a Mechwarrior weapon for a mech?

Actually, now that I think about it, that might be an amusing mech design. Rush in, grapple enemy mech with two claws an nip off the limbs.

What, this?

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n294/wolffe42/kingcrab.gif

[Quietus]

If we're looking at Epic, I could tear the PPDC apart in a single turn. I'm sure someone can reduce this in level, but general idea is just straight Rogue33. Screw optimization. All your Epic feats go into Lingering Damage and Improved Sneak Attack. Base attack is around 21, plus 6 for your +6 epic weapon, then add any other goodies you have - getting a +10 dex mod shouldn't be too tough by level 33, so that's +37 against this thing. UMD a scroll of Greater Invisibility or drink a potion, sneak up to the PPDC, and full attack with perfect two-weapon fighting. 17d6 sneak attack from levels, and more from your epic feats, should put you in the 23d6 area. Add short sword and the magic bonus, and you have 24d6+6 (before strength and other weapon-based goodies), for an average of 90 damage per hit, with eight attacks. More if you're hasted. Assuming Haste, you get three attacks that CAN'T miss, followed by six that aren't likely to. And you only need to hit him just over 6 times.

[Fax Celestis]

If we're looking at Epic, I could tear the PPDC apart in a single turn. I'm sure someone can reduce this in level, but general idea is just straight Rogue33. Screw optimization. All your Epic feats go into Lingering Damage and Improved Sneak Attack. Base attack is around 21, plus 6 for your +6 epic weapon, then add any other goodies you have - getting a +10 dex mod shouldn't be too tough by level 33, so that's +37 against this thing. UMD a scroll of Greater Invisibility or drink a potion, sneak up to the PPDC, and full attack with perfect two-weapon fighting. 17d6 sneak attack from levels, and more from your epic feats, should put you in the 23d6 area. Add short sword and the magic bonus, and you have 24d6+6 (before strength and other weapon-based goodies), for an average of 90 damage per hit, with eight attacks. More if you're hasted. Assuming Haste, you get three attacks that CAN'T miss, followed by six that aren't likely to. And you only need to hit him just over 6 times.

Scent for location.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Scent does not allow you to pinpoint the creature in question-you're still considered flat-footed and it still has total concealment. And that only if the attacker is not incorporeal (which a ghostform item can help with).

[Draz74]

As far as some people's efforts to kill the crab by dropping large quantities of shrunk heavy objects on it go ...

That's really just the same as saying "Pun-Pun." Most of the discussion has been "using the RAI" (Rules As Intended), and Shrink Item bombardment cheese is clearly not RAI.

Of course, you're free to refuse to work within the framework of the RAI even if the rest of the people on the thread aren't. But it won't lead toward people agreeing with you.

Most of the other answers I've seen here have been interesting to read. Especially Quietus's recent good ol' mundane Rogue answer (quick, look through splatbooks for a UMDable spell that foils Scent!).

Question, though -- if I were DM, I'd give the crab a chance of success if it tried DDooring into the air to land on top of flying opponents. I guess DDoor prohibits further actions in the same turn, though, which might include any grapple attempts (or however else you'd represent landing on top of someone). Would I be a ridiculously anti-rules DM for allowing this DDoor attack mode?

[Quietus]

Scent for location.

At ECL33, you ought to be able to find SOMETHING to negate their ability to smell you.


Belial, they CAN pinpoint the square you're in if you're within 5 feet.

[Miles Invictus]

The rogue's +37 attack bonus can't beat the crab's flat-footed AC of 70, and Constant Insight negates the miss chance for concealment. The crab weathers the rogue's ambush, uses a move action to pinpoint the rogue's location, and uses a standard action to hit the rogue, automatically grappling him. The next turn, the crab squeezes really hard, and the rogue pops like a balloon animal in an explosive decompression chamber.

[Zherog]

At ECL33, you ought to be able to find SOMETHING to negate their ability to smell you.

There's an alchemical item in Tome and Blood called, well, scentbreaker. I don't know off hand if the item has been reprinted in any 3.5 source books.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

A ghostformed rogue with ghost-touch weapons ignores natural armor, is undetectable by scent, tremorsense, hearing or blindsight and cannot be grappled. Since the rogue can UMD a ghostform item easily, the rogue wins.

Also, the rogue wins if he's invisible and simply uses spring attack to strike and flee. :smallcool:

[Fax Celestis]

Also, the rogue wins if he's invisible and simply uses spring attack to strike and flee. :smallcool:

The rogue, if he goes this route, has to get out of 360' range during that spring.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Or fly 10 ft up with his ring of Solar Wings (or standard ring of Flying). :smalltongue:

[AtomicKitKat]

A ghostformed rogue with ghost-touch weapons ignores natural armor, is undetectable by scent, tremorsense, hearing or blindsight and cannot be grappled. Since the rogue can UMD a ghostform item easily, the rogue wins.

Also, the rogue wins if he's invisible and simply uses spring attack to strike and flee. :smallcool:

Only if he's using Greater Invisibility. The crab has a movespeed of 180. That's faster than most things can fly.:smalleek:

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Again, the trogue could just fly upwards with a ring of flying or similar device.

[AtomicKitKat]

At that movespeed, I'm guessing it can still make the Jump check required(remember that you had to use up some of your movement at the start of the Spring Attack). Coupled with the Reach, not too hard.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

You're forgetting that the crab has a +55 to jump. Better fly like a rocket.

[Funkyodor]

Ring of Freedom of Movement is very important to have (no grappling for crabby).
Skunk animal companion/summoned creature could very well help also (whatever the scent rule is can probably be ruled out).
40 "minions" from the Leadership feat levitated and invisible throwing 40 beads of force doing 200d6 no save area of effect force damage. Easy to hit, just aim at the ground around the 15"x15" square creature.
Expensive, but within the 25% asset expenditure for completing a ecl equivalent encounter.

[AtomicKitKat]

Now I'm tempted to give it Fighter levels. "You no can be grabbed? Me smash you good!" *massive crab claw pimpslaps Freedom-of-Movement-enchanted character 100 feet towards cliffs*:smalltongue:

[Darion]

Lowest I can get this to die is at level 5.

Halfling Artificer 5

Items: Potion(s) of Improved Invisibility, Wand of Lesser Sonic Orb (CL 1)x2, Wand of True Strike, Material components

Feats: Usual UMD boosters, Fell Drain, Enlarge Spell

How:
1) Buff self with Cat's Grace, Greater Armor Enhancement (Whirlwind), Metamagic Item (Fell Drain)
2) Fly above PPDC
3) Activate True Strike
4) Shoot a Fell Drain Lesser Sonic Orb as the PPDC
5) With an attack of +32 (BAB +4, Dex of +7, Size +1, True Strike +20) vs AC 35
6) Repeat steps 3-4 approx 20 times (taking into account misses and possible crits)
7) Reduce PPDC to 0HD in about 2 minutes
8) Level

If the Crab DD's away, explain to the DM that you've beaten the encounter and still deserve most of the XP.

Edited because of the crab's Greater Dispel SA-
Add Metamagic Item (Enlarge Spell) to the list and change it to a wand of Melf's Unicorn Arrow.
--or--
Add Metamagic Item (Maximize) and Metamagic Item (Empower) and use a wand of Melf's Acid Arrow (for the cheaper version)

[Trixie]

The problem with the wall of iron is this:

So, by the spell itself the damage of the wall when it falls is capped and creatures are allowed a reflex save. I don't see why falling items that fall from higher and thus allow more time for creatures beneat to move would not allow a reflex save as well.

Non appicable. That only applies to a wall overturned to squish someone at it's side. I aim for a simple falling damage from a heavy object. :smallannoyed:



The second problem with dropping items is the command word. A command word is a standard action to use even if it is just speaking (which normally is a free action). And dismissing a spell or other effect (the shrink item or polymorph you used on the stones you carry) is always a standard action-for EACH spell-and you must be within range.

...Saying _one_ _frickin_ _word_ [which, incidentally, is CW for all boulders] lasts 6 seconds if it's CW? WTF? Whatever, I can position boulder, say the word and then let it fall on its own. You're graping straws. :smallannoyed:



The third problem is that polymorph doesn't work on objects-only on WILLING creatures touched.

What polymorph? If you mean the spell, go ahead and read what shrink item does. :smallannoyed:

[Trixie]

and why dont you go home and calculate how little effect air friction actualy has on something as dense as stone?

You know, your little theory [Aristotelian, btw] was refuted by guy named Galileo Galilei almost 500 years ago.
Yeah, go ahed, pick one stone weighting 100 g and other weighting 1 kg and drop them from a reasonable height.
You know, level of teaching has fallen significantly during the last 20 years, what I was in elementary school - that was one of the first physics experiments conducted here, and to not kno... ech, whatever. :smallannoyed:



the question whereever you can use more than one command word activation aside, you still hasnt solved how you will actualy hit the crabs ac

Why crab? Hitting the spot he is on is infinitely easier, given his size, and perfectly legal, with an added bonus of meaty insert between ground and boulder :smallyuk:

[Hadrian_Emrys]

It just needs to be advanced to give it the shadow pounce ability and some form of truesight. Levels in hulking hurler would just make it all the more fun.

[Ulzgoroth]

Why crab? Hitting the spot he is on is infinitely easier, given his size, and perfectly legal, with an added bonus of meaty insert between ground and boulder :smallyuk:
Doesn't the spot kind of have total cover behind the crab? I don't think you can hit it. :smalltongue:

...And even if you could, I don't see how you think that implies damaging the crab unless you actually hit the crab's AC.

[....]

At that movespeed, I'm guessing it can still make the Jump check required(remember that you had to use up some of your movement at the start of the Spring Attack). Coupled with the Reach, not too hard.

Did anyone else laugh uproariously at the image this creates?

Rogue: Justg a bit closer...HA! Take that crab! Now, to away to safety! *shoots into the air flying away*
Rogue: Ahh, free, free as a bi-AAAHHHHHHH!
Crab leaps vertically almost a hundered feet into the air and snags the rogue like a bothersome fly.
Crab: munch munch munch.

[Trixie]

As far as some people's efforts to kill the crab by dropping large quantities of shrunk heavy objects on it go ...

That's really just the same as saying "Pun-Pun." Most of the discussion has been "using the RAI" (Rules As Intended), and Shrink Item bombardment cheese is clearly not RAI.

Of course, you're free to refuse to work within the framework of the RAI even if the rest of the people on the thread aren't. But it won't lead toward people agreeing with you.


Okay, show me the rule that says you cannot combine rules for falling damage and a spell to ease transportation of said missile? That was actually the most realistic of answers, and easiest to pull without cheesy sneak attack for 50d6 or using obscure prestige classes, but well, who I am to argue.
If you want to play using rigid rules instead of your common sense, go ahead,but explain to me how, for e.g. a common cat can kill several men. That's one example of your RAI, you know :smallwink:

[Trixie]

Did anyone else laugh uproariously at the image this creates?

Rogue: Justg a bit closer...HA! Take that crab! Now, to away to safety! *shoots into the air flying away*
Rogue: Ahh, free, free as a bi-AAAHHHHHHH!
Crab leaps vertically almost a hundered feet into the air and snags the rogue like a bothersome fly.
Crab: munch munch munch.

And people say anything about RAI :smallamused:

[Fax Celestis]

Now I'm tempted to give it Fighter levels. "You no can be grabbed? Me smash you good!" *massive crab claw pimpslaps Freedom-of-Movement-enchanted character 100 feet towards cliffs*:smalltongue:

Actually, I was thinking adding Lion Totem Barbarian 1.

[Trixie]

Doesn't the spot kind of have total cover behind the crab? I don't think you can hit it. :smalltongue:

...And even if you could, I don't see how you think that implies damaging the crab unless you actually hit the crab's AC.

I'm pretty sure I saw similar rules in D&D, but Star Wars d20 and Modern d20 [i play the most often] have grenadelike objects as surest way of hitting someone with huge AC, and throwing a boulder on a bad guy was even used in one example :smallbiggrin:

As for your question: finally, someone who doesn't make strawmans and actually points a problem :smalltongue: Nope, total cover only means that at best 1/2 missiles miss. Even, if we use restrictive grenade mishap table from SW d20, 1/6 missiles will hit, which is still enough in the worst case (9*20d6) and anything that hits the spot, will hit the object on it, especially if it's lager than the square.

[Fax Celestis]

Okay, show me the rule that says you cannot combine rules for falling damage and a spell to ease transportation of said missile? That was actually the most realistic of answers, and easiest to pull without cheesy sneak attack for 50d6 or using obscure prestige classes, but well, who I am to argue.
If you want to play using rigid rules instead of your common sense, go ahead,but explain to me how, for e.g. a common cat can kill several men. That's one example of your RAI, you know :smallwink:

When you have to make up rules to defeat a creature...

[Jacob Orlove]

You know, Gate kill this guy just as easily as it kills pretty much anything else ever.

[EndgamerAzari]

Crab: munch munch munch.

I believe the expression you're looking for is "NOM NOM NOM."

[Douglas]

As for your question: finally, someone who doesn't make strawmans and actually points a problem :smalltongue: Nope, total cover only means that at best 1/2 missiles miss.
No, that's total concealment. Total cover means you can't attack it at all because there's a wall (or similar obstacle) in the way.

[Mewtarthio]

You know, Gate kill this guy just as easily as it kills pretty much anything else ever.

Like a said before: Gate in a couple of Atropals. All you need to do after that is figure out how to stop him from DimDooring away.

[Reinboom]

May I know if my relatively easily achieved example of the two sorcerers has any pitfalls?

[Ubiq]

Now I'm tempted to give it Fighter levels.

Wouldn't Monk levels be a better choice considering that it's an unarmed combatant?

[Keld Denar]

Like a said before: Gate in a couple of Atropals. All you need to do after that is figure out how to stop him from DimDooring away.

My strat will stop it from using ddoor. Combine greater anticipate teleport with a single wish (and wishing to overcome somethings SR one time doesn't seem like an amazing abuse of a wish. Just dim lock the area, wish to bypass its SR, and then set a forcecage for the area it will be ddooring into. It'll show up in a prison it can't get out of. Then gate in atropals as needed, or just run a cloudkill over it till it dies.

[Fax Celestis]

Two level 8 sorcerer could do it.

1st sorcerer
Human feat: Fell Drain
1st level feat: Easy Metamagic (Fell Drain)
3rd level feat: Arcane Thesis (Lesser Orb of Sound)

and uses a single fly

2nd sorcerer:
uses a lot of grease and fly.

.. just as long as the crab doesn't run away.

+55 Jump, plus +60 for his landspeed, means he can jump 115' horizontally or 28.75 feet vertically without even a check. Also, check out his Balance score.

[Captain van der Decken]

Trick it into following you through a gate to the Positive Energy Plane, then leave, waiting for it to explode?

[Jacob Orlove]

Like a said before: Gate in a couple of Atropals. All you need to do after that is figure out how to stop him from DimDooring away.
Nah, there's an easier method.

Step one: Gate yourself to the Positive Energy Plane (or anywhere else totally inimical to Giant Crabs--set up whatever self-protections you need in advance, as necessary). Note that you can also use Plane Shift or whatever is conveninent instead.

Step two: Gate in the Crab. Apply additional defenses as necessary (Quickened Teleport is fine).

Step three: Gate or Plane Shift or whatever you prefer, to leave. The Crab is stuck there and dies.

Bonus points for using UMD to do this at low levels.

Cheese points for using Candle of Invocation to do this at really low levels.

[kjones]

I think That Damned Crab should come with a label.

"Warning: Do not attempt to advance or apply templates to That Damned Crab. Doing so may result in cries of 'Sweet Zombie Jesus!' from terrified players worldwide."

[tannish2]

ok ive got it, technically i THINK its still an animal, so druid (awaken animal)+diplomancer, and if that fails then shrink item or just lots of flying and long range spellls not effected by SR...

[tainsouvra]

Trick it into following you through a gate to the Positive Energy Plane, then leave, waiting for it to explode? Unless, via DM's ruling, the creature is aware of how cheesy it is and feels so guilty about the whole thing that it would cut itself every night if only razorblades could bypass its DR, AC, and fast healing...why exactly would a creature with genius-level intelligence be easily tricked into doing something blatantly suicidal?

Remember, 18 intelligence on that sucker. PPDC has a PhD in cheese.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

This crab does not, nor did it ever, count as an animal. The unmodified version counted as a vermin, though I'm unsure of what it is now with these templates.

[Fax Celestis]

This crab does not, nor did it ever, count as an animal. The unmodified version counted as a vermin, though I'm unsure of what it is now with these templates.

Outsider (extraplanar, aquatic, augmented vermin).

[Darion]

So, after the level 5 win (which actually isn't that cheesy) I thought I'd try a "killing it with weapons" approach, rather than spell tricks. While this requires substantial buffing, its capable of killing the PPDC at level 12 with a weapon, without getting squished in the process.

Human Archivist 12

Items: Bracers of Archery, Greater; +1 Composite Longbow of Distance, Schema of Weapon Augmentation (Greater); Schema of Weapon Augmentation (Personal); Ring of Spell Storing, Prayer Beads, 50 Serpent-tongue Arrows, custom UMD booster

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Far Shot, Extend Spell, Otherworldly

Range: 110 (base) x 2 (Distance) x 1.5 (Far Shot) 325, or 3250 feet at maximum range with Guided Shot

Part 1: Buffs
1) Activate Karma Bead
2) Cast: Polymorph (Kelvezu Demon), Divine Power, Divine Agility, Greater Magic Weapon, Blessed Aim, Brilliant Blade, Invisibility (Greater), Extended Divine Favor, Haste
3) Activate: Ring of Spell Storing (Good Hope), Schema of Weapon Augmentation (Personal)- Outsider Bane- Bow, Schema of Weapon Augmentation (Greater)- Vorpal- 50 Serpent Tongue Arrows

Part 2: Kill
1) Stand 3250 feet from PPDC, cast (swift) guided shot, full round of shooting
A: Attack routine of +49/+49/+49/+44/+39/+34 (BAB +16, Dex +15, Bracers of Archery- Greater +2, Greater Magic Weapon +5, Outsider Bane +2, Divine Favor +5, Blessed Aim +2, Weapon Focus +1, Haste +1, Good Hope +2, Rapid Shot -2, ignoring range increments and the blur)
2) This is against the PPDC’s flat footed touch AC (Invisibility at half a mile and Brilliant Blade) of 35
3) I’m going to assume it has more HP than listed and that the fast healing + DR is retarded enough to make actual HP damage a non-issue (note, it might actually be just takeable through damage at 1d8+str+2d6 (bane) + 12 (GMW, DF, GH), but that’s not the point of this trick)
4) 1:20 arrows is a natural 20 with an “all but a 1” confirmation. With 6 shots/round, it takes 3.something rounds to cut the PPDC’s head off with a vorpal arrow (Serpent-tongue- MoW- slashing/piercing)

…note: If the PPDC moves via DD towards the archer each round, it comes down to initiative (whether there’s a “guaranteed to kill” 4 rounds of shooting) or the archer moving to stay just out of the crab’s reach of 1200 per round… though I’d call cheese on any DM that had it make a straight line in the direction of the invisible archer with the range of the first few volleys.

This also works on anything you can realistically hit on the confirmation roll and that’s critable.

[TheLogman]

This Crab just wins, always and everytime, and advancing him just makes things sad. Very, very, very sad.

The easiest way?

Epic Spell: SLAY THAT DAMN CRAB!

Epic Seed: Slay
(25+20 (1 action casting time)+48 (to increase saving throw to 55)+96 (To increase the check to beat SR by 48)= A spellcraft check of 189.

Mitigating factors: 14500 Exp Burn= -145 to Spellcraft check, and 2d6 damage= -2 to Spellcraft check.

The Base for save is 31, (Assuming the Wizard has 18 Int at start, spent every ability bonus on Int, and has a +10 Int item) and then making it +24 harder, making it impossible to save against unless the Crab rolls a 20, (And the DM rules that a 20 is an auto-save (It usually is)).

As for caster level to beat SR, assuming this is a level 21 caster, (I am) and then you add 48 to your check, making it impossible to fail.

The Spellcraft check is easy once you mitigate it, you get +11 to your Spellcraft check from intelligence, a +24 from ranks, +2 from Synergy, +2 from Magical Aptitude and a +2 from a masterwork item of some sort. This is a bonus of 41 to your check. I assume the worst, and am assuming you get a 1 on your roll, and get a 42.

The EXP penalty is harsh, but it is a small price to pay to rid the world of THAT DAMN CRAB!

For a more creative way, Celerity Timestop, Antimagic shell, Forcecage carefully crafted around the antimagic shell. Or, win initiative Quickened Antimagic shell, carefully crafted forcecage. Of course, this will only slow it down. I have no clue how to kill it from there. Maybe give the cage bars, and then let your level 20 rouge/ranger/fighter hit it repetitively with arrows and stuff. It's hard, but hey, you're level 20, figure something out.

That, or Dismissal or Banish it with the Cleric Substitution level from the Manual of the Planes, or the spell Dismissal (Duh!) Since its an outsider.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Timestop. Stone to Mud, Shape mud around crab. Mud to Stone. Activate weirdstone. Crab suffocates.

Timestop. Forcecage. Fill forcecage with water. Freeze. Antimagic field. Crab suffocates.

[TheLogman]

Oh, by the way Fax, amazing monster, we all hate it, but you take it to the next level.

[Fax Celestis]

Oh, by the way Fax, amazing monster, we all hate it, but you take it to the next level.

I should start a thread that consists entirely of variations on That Damn Crab.

[Mewtarthio]

Nah, there's an easier method.

Step one: Gate yourself to the Positive Energy Plane (or anywhere else totally inimical to Giant Crabs--set up whatever self-protections you need in advance, as necessary). Note that you can also use Plane Shift or whatever is conveninent instead.

Step two: Gate in the Crab. Apply additional defenses as necessary (Quickened Teleport is fine).

Step three: Gate or Plane Shift or whatever you prefer, to leave. The Crab is stuck there and dies.

Bonus points for using UMD to do this at low levels.

Cheese points for using Candle of Invocation to do this at really low levels.

Two problems:

1) The ability to Gate in the PPDC would imply that there's more than one of them out there. Your method explicitly states that the PPDC just one of an entire species of hideous, maddening, betentacled crab monsters, and that's too scary to consider. Of course, if it's a unique monster, it may choose to come of its own volition, in which case it will simply kill you.

2) The PPDC only hangs around for CL rounds before the Calling effect allows it to return home, per the description of the Gate spell. After that, you have to bargain with it if you want it to stay any longer.

[Yeril]

I think I can do it as a level 1 character... but its tricky... and it involves using a anchient rituals, wish, a major diety, and a vorpal longsword...

If I remember theres some kind of ritual that involves a DC 25 knwoeldge (planes) check (attainable by level 1 if you max your int, ranks, feats, age, and everything else towards it) and you can receive 1 wish from this Diety.

"I wish you would hit the crab once with a vorpal longsword."

Evil god attacks crab. instant 20 for godlyness. threating vorpal. instant 20 for godlyness, instant sucess, crab is vorpaled.

of course thats if the DM allows you to call upon a evil diety to kill a crab for a level 1 character.

Ps: I have no credibility Im running off memory here...

[Yeril]

I should start a thread that consists entirely of variations on That Damn Crab.

hmm.. The Damn Flying Crab?

Also: ^^ Wow my spelling realy went out the window in that last post...

[Reinboom]

I should start a thread that consists entirely of variations on That Damn Crab.
I would love to see a full:
Chimeric, Shadow, Stoneboned, Half-Fiend, Lichfiend That Damned Crab (can only be applied in that order - if it works) :smalltongue:

[Kaelik]

I think I can do it as a level 1 character... but its tricky... and it involves using a anchient rituals, wish, a major diety, and a vorpal longsword...

If I remember theres some kind of ritual that involves a DC 25 knwoeldge (planes) check (attainable by level 1 if you max your int, ranks, feats, age, and everything else towards it) and you can receive 1 wish from this Diety.

"I wish you would hit the crab once with a vorpal longsword."

Evil god attacks crab. instant 20 for godlyness. threating vorpal. instant 20 for godlyness, instant sucess, crab is vorpaled.

of course thats if the DM allows you to call upon a evil diety to kill a crab for a level 1 character.

Ps: I have no credibility Im running off memory here...

Too bad you get no XP for a CR 33 challenge at level one huh? Or even if you did, only get to reach level 3 (technically 1XP needed but really, just go defecate in a corner to get that.)

[Bauglir]

I suggest a level 20 Beguiler with Advanced Learning (Ray of Stupidity), Split Ray and Twin Spell, and a Greater Rod of Maximize. That's 20 points of Int damage if the Beguiler (who also has Advanced Learning (Superior Invisibility)) hits its Flat-Footed Touch AC of 35, which it likely will, given that it is a Halfling with, oh, let's say 32 Dex (a fair number, but not its focus stat) and a Scroll of True Strike, which it can use without rolling due to its high Int and ranks in UMD, giving it an attack bonus of +42 (+10 base, +11 Dex, +20 True Strike, +1 Size), meaning we need merely not roll a 1, and we can get past 45 if we focus on this particular tactic as the point of the build, meaning that one need not even roll, assuming the DM uses Epic rules for rolling 1s on attacks. How's that?

I love the Spell Compendium.

[Reinboom]

Too bad you get no XP for a CR 33 challenge at level one huh? Or even if you did, only get to reach level 3 (technically 1XP needed but really, just go defecate in a corner to get that.)

Assuming a standard human has the capability to easily be able to defecate in a corner twice a day, and given 365 days in a standard year. This means that a standard human could receive 730 experience on average, not considering other illness or disorders - many related to the desired consumption of "the pink all in one medicine".
Thus, an intelligent human would spend a significant amount of their life time defecating in corners for power and in fact, one could conceive that if this knowledge was contributed by the parents to start at 9, they could already be level 4 by the point they reach age 18, and thus via the process of defecating in corners, be considered the paragon of the standard "real world" via means more or less frowned upon.
Now imagine an unhealthy and gassy elf.


To Bauglir:
That doesn't get over its SR. Edit for below: Oops, that's an interesting capstone - I wasn't aware of this (obviously) neat!

[Bauglir]

Yes, it does. Read the 20th level part of Cloaked Casting, which is the whole point of my putting "Beguiler" in there. PHB2, page 7.

[Zherog]

Assuming a standard human has the capability to easily be able to defecate in a corner twice a day...

Wow. You must eat a lot more fiber than I do...

[Captain van der Decken]

Hey, that's a rather disturbing train of thought.


Unless, via DM's ruling, the creature is aware of how cheesy it is and feels so guilty about the whole thing that it would cut itself every night if only razorblades could bypass its DR, AC, and fast healing...why exactly would a creature with genius-level intelligence be easily tricked into doing something blatantly suicidal?

Remember, 18 intelligence on that sucker. PPDC has a PhD in cheese.

Well.. tricking it'd be more of a wisdom thing, I'd think. Of which it has 36. So, yeah, big oversight there!

[Edea]

One option might be to play a Dweomerkeeper; they are capable of casting their spells as Supernatural abilities a certain number of times per day, ignoring the crab's SR score. Choose the appropriate spells with this in mind. Another option is an Eldritch Theurge; they can apply Vitriolic Blast to a spell that deals damage, again ignoring spell resistance (the resistance 35 isn't going to matter much, since at this level you should be using Intensify Spell; Quicken won't work in this case).

Or, after using one or two choice buff spells (if you like, I'm not sure you really need them), you can shapechange into a gibbering orb (it has 27 hit dice, so your caster level needs to be 14th, but assuming that you need to be epic level to assume these forms (where does it actually say that, though?), so 21st is more appropriate). It is capable of firing 5 energy drain eye rays at a single target as an (Su) ability, immediately inflicting 10d4 negative levels (there's a Fort save, but only to remove the negative levels later on). Since the crab only has 16 hit dice, that's a fairly decent chance of instantly killing it. Or, after said buffs, turn into a vermiurge and consume the crab with your Aura of Fear (no save, no SR, will do up to 1,000 points of damage, (Su) attack, single action, the insects have DR/epic).

Any of these look feasible?

[Lemur]

Sorry to anyone who suggested using Invisibility, but Fax forgot to add the spell like abilities from paragon (Greater Dispel, See Invisibility, Haste, 3/day each, caster level 15).

Also, I think a crab of legend would be funny, even though you can't technically apply the template to vermin.

[Kaelik]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Ray of Stupidity a mind affecting effect. And therefore something that damn crap is immune to? Otherwise wouldn't a Ray of stupidity pretty much knock out that damn crap at level 3?

[Fax Celestis]

Sorry to anyone who suggested using Invisibility, but Fax forgot to add the spell like abilities from paragon (Greater Dispel, See Invisibility, Haste, 3/day each, caster level 15).

Fixed. Also added the +15 CL bonus to his other SLAs.

[Dullyanna]

How about a feral, demonic, colossal crab? With class levels in barbarian... It's not actually that powerful, but the mental image of it scares the crap out of me.

[Shas aia Toriia]

How about making a PC with the Tauric template. One part human, one part that DAMNED crab!

Also, is it just me or is that DAMNED crab becoming a little forum in-joke?

[TheLogman]

It's become more than that, it's become a truth.

For instance:

In that same way that Druids are super-powerful, Fighters are very weak at level 20 in comparison to other classes, Monks are too MAD for their own good, and Clerics=Good, THAT DAMN CRAB is way too powerful for the CR, and could easily crush a third level party with his claws of death.

It's more than a joke, it's a reality. Join us.

[Shas aia Toriia]

*joined in the original topic*

But would it possible to pull off a tauric build using that DAMNED crab!?!

[martyboy74]

Y'know what this thing isn't immune to? Ability drain. Why is it that none of these things ever plan for a allip invasion?

[Kaelik]

Y'know what this thing isn't immune to? Ability drain. Why is it that none of these things ever plan for a allip invasion?

I actually thought of that. Cleric Creates Allip. Allip goes to pwn the Crab. Because incorporeality is insanely broken against monsters.

[Darion]

I will eventually stat out the:

Titanic, Shadow Creature, Half-Clay-Golem, Half-Dragon (shadow) That Damned Crab of Legend-

The truly giant crab-shape of oozing slime and darkness....

(and more or less immune to spells between the 1/2 golem and innate spell turning and only effected by blunt weapons)

[Bauglir]

It loses the Vermin type, becoming an Outsider. Since it's nowhere else mentioned, the bit of the Augmented subtype that says, "Usually has the traits of its current type and the features of its original", takes effect and that damn crab loses its Vermin traits, including its Mindlessness. It is thus susceptible to Mind-Affecting effects. So it has a weakness the base TDC didn't.

I probably missed something that messes with this and means we're all still doomed to suffer under our mighty crustacean overlords.

[dyslexicfaser]

At what point amongst this barrage of templates does That Damned Crab realize that it's simply too uber for the Prime Material and ascends to Godhood?

With a portfolio including, but not necessarily limited to: crab, crab-people, death, chaos, hunger, wrath, glory, and evil.

[Fax Celestis]

At what point amongst this barrage of templates does That Damned Crab realize that it's simply too uber for the Prime Material and ascends to Godhood?

With a portfolio including, but not necessarily limited to: crab, crab-people, death, chaos, hunger, wrath, glory, and evil.

His domains? Ocean, Hunger, Wrath, Cheese.

[Edea]

Cheese Domain
---------------------------------
1) detect cheese
2) protection from cheese
3) dispel cheese
4) cone of cheese
5) transmute brie to gouda
6) wall of cheese
7) finger of swiss
8) storm of curds
9) grate the soul

Any ideas on a domain granted power?

[daggaz]

Storm of Curds? Just....ewwww.....

[Fax Celestis]

Cheese Domain
---------------------------------
1) detect cheese
2) protection from cheese
3) dispel cheese
4) cone of cheese
5) transmute brie to gouda
6) wall of cheese
7) finger of swiss
8) storm of curds
9) grate the soul

Any ideas on a domain granted power?

You are immune to Pun-Pun.

[Zeful]

Well the Wish/Dim Anchor thing keeps the Crab in place but I'm pretty sure an epic Wizard with the truespeak skill can unmake this monster. I'm not sure about the actual mechanics but I guess that all you need to do is pad your Cl and Int and simply get it's personal truename.

[...Eh?]

*Hasn't read entire topic, so this may have already been done*

Sigged.

[RTGoodman]

[Archivist archery-based crab-eliminating build]

But now you have to explain how exactly you plan on seeing 3250 feet away. According to the SRD (http://systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/skillsAll.html#spot), you get a -1 on Spot checks for every 10 feet of distance. If my calculations are correct (and I'm a history major, so they may not be), that's a -325 on your Spot check to even see TDC.


How about making a PC with the Tauric template. One part human, one part that DAMNED crab!

That idea scares me to my very core. :smalleek:

Also, I'm not sure who mentioned it, but someone talked about making a Knowledge check to be able to get a Wish at 1st level. It's actually entirely possible, and if I remember correctly, it's how Pun-Pun is currently (at minimum) a 1-level build. You have to make like a DC 25 Knowledge (the Planes) check to learn about the demon-lord Pazuzu (from BoVD). If you say his name three times, he may appear before you, and may even grant you a Wish. Of course, doing so negatively impacts your alignment, but according to the book he delights in corrupting Paladins and sometimes lets them get one wish "for free" (that is, without an alignment shift). I think you might be able to convince Pazuzu to do your work for you, since PPDC is definitely a threat to everything that lives.

[AtomicKitKat]

Wouldn't Monk levels be a better choice considering that it's an unarmed combatant?

Dungeoncrasher is alternative class feature replacing Fighter 2+Fighter 6 bonus Feats.


The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load).

Even if you could free action activate the custom ring of Fly and claim a full move action after your Spring Attack, you can only go 60 feet into the air at most. Crab jumps 28 feet without even checking, another 15 feet for its size, another 15 feet of reach, and it's just 2 feet shy, which is probably an easy Take 10(skill mastery, or else, just think of it as 50/50 easy enough to make).


*insert quote about deity and vorpal*

Deities still need to confirm criticals. You automatically land all attacks as though you rolled 20(barring Epic Dodge and similar), but you still have to roll to confirm, without the "all rolls are 20" in effect.


Timestop. Stone to Mud, Shape mud around crab. Mud to Stone. Activate weirdstone. Crab suffocates.

Timestop. Forcecage. Fill forcecage with water. Freeze. Antimagic field. Crab suffocates.


N Huge Outsider (extraplanar, aquatic, augmented vermin)...Amphibious (Ex): Although an advanced Huge monstrous crab is aquatic, it can survive indefinitely on land.


Aquatic Subtype

These creatures always have swim speeds and thus can move in water without making Swim checks. An aquatic creature can breathe underwater. It cannot also breathe air unless it has the amphibious special quality.

If we're going for shape-changing, I think Druid+Aberrant Wildshape+Overseer/Hive Mother(?)+Assume Supernatural Ability should work.

If archery, how about we take that Deepwood Sniper from the CO boards who can achieve a 32k foot shot in a single round?:smallbiggrin: Yes, it breaks the speed of sound. Stick an arcane eye on the bait suckerally sent to the crab's vicinity so that he can see it to aim.:smallwink:

[BardicDuelist]

An 11th level Factotum might have a chance. Cunning Breach ignores damage reduction and SR, he can take maximize, quicken, and empower spell like ability (with flaws if necessary), and use Shivering Touch. To hit ...that is a tough one, but I'm sure somone can figure it out.

Even if that doesn't work, to bypass the SR and DR, an 11 level dip might be worth it for a level 33 build.

[Bauglir]

1/day item of True Strike, and win initiative. Would that do it? And if it makes it easier to pull off, it IS vulnerable to Int damage via ray of stupidity. Or something like that.

[Haikiah]

I know how to kill THAT DAMN CRAB!
It's simple! All we need to do, is post a thread somewhere in this forum, asking about easy way to remove stumps from your local low level town. The result, knowing you lot, would be the complete and utter destruction of the planet. Thus, killing THAT DAMN CRAB!

Or we could... hit it with a stick. Or disco dance at it. Both are equally likely to work ;)

[AtomicKitKat]

So if you're going to Sneak Attack, make sure to take Staggering Strike, and hope like hell that the crab cannot consistently make a DC 80-90 Fortitude Save.

[Duke of URL]

I'll take a shot at killing it, using only the SRD. :smallcool:

Transmuter 20
Assume modified INT of 28-30 w/ respect to bonus spells
Equip as many Rods of Metamagic, Quicken, Greater as you can afford
(Also, take the feat Sudden Quicken if need be)

Use all 7th level slots and above for reverse gravity.

Fly.

Repeat the following: Quickened reverse gravity, to say, 250' or so - dismiss (20d6 falling damage, avg. 70) - reverse gravity - dismiss

Average 140 damage per round, no SR, no save, vs. fast healing 20 = I win

Edit: Of course, it could just dimension door away, but in that case, "it runs away" still = "I win" in my book

[AtomicKitKat]

no save

Fail. Unless you're assuming that you're fighting it on an absolutely deserted beach, it can still try to cling to trees, wreckage, etc. with a Reflex Save.

[Duke of URL]

With flight, I have movement advantage. I'm not going to engage it unless the conditions favor me.

Edit: Plus, do you think a Wizard can't just blast away anything that could be used as an "anchor"? It's size is "huge", it just can't grab onto anything.

[tannish2]

i like the forcecage+freeze the water one (with dimensional anchor or in a place hallowed with dimensional anchor effect on it. freezycrab.

[AtomicKitKat]

With flight, I have movement advantage. I'm not going to engage it unless the conditions favor me.

Edit: Plus, do you think a Wizard can't just blast away anything that could be used as an "anchor"? It's size is "huge", it just can't grab onto anything.

Trees. Ginormous boulders trapped by millenia of soil(or conversely, exposed). If it's firmly rooted enough to resist Reverse Gravity, the crab can probably grab it. Far too often, DMs don't put enough obstacles in the map.

[Dervag]

I know how to kill THAT DAMN CRAB!
It's simple! All we need to do, is post a thread somewhere in this forum, asking about easy way to remove stumps from your local low level town. The result, knowing you lot, would be the complete and utter destruction of the planet. Thus, killing THAT DAMN CRAB!

Or we could... hit it with a stick. Or disco dance at it. Both are equally likely to work ;)Swordguy already figured out how to blow up a planet, dealing a total of 685 quadrillion damage by summoning a huge block of dense antimatter metal.

This led to the superb line:

"I would complain about killing catgirls*, but they're already dead. You killed them with your 685 quadrillion damage."

*From the meme that "every time you bring real-life science into a fantasy game debate, God kills a catgirl."

[Skjaldbakka]

There are game mechanics for antimatter? *sigh*

[Ulzgoroth]

Extrapolated from the mechanics for TNT, if I recall.

[Duke of URL]

Trees. Ginormous boulders trapped by millenia of soil(or conversely, exposed). If it's firmly rooted enough to resist Reverse Gravity, the crab can probably grab it. Far too often, DMs don't put enough obstacles in the map.

I don't even want to go into the list of low-level spells that could eliminate those obstacles. If you're playing a wizard, you control the battlefield first, then go nuclear. The only real defense the damn crab has in this case is dimension door, so the real trick is landing some form of dimensional anchor on it long enough to play ping-pong with the soon-to-be main ingredient in pseudonatural paragon damn crab chowder.

[AtomicKitKat]

I don't even want to go into the list of low-level spells that could eliminate those obstacles. If you're playing a wizard, you control the battlefield first, then go nuclear. The only real defense the damn crab has in this case is dimension door, so the real trick is landing some form of dimensional anchor on it long enough to play ping-pong with the soon-to-be main ingredient in pseudonatural paragon damn crab chowder.

Given that it's got 18 Intelligence, it won't stay damaged long enough for your Ping Pong to work. At half health, it might decide to port away for a few rounds, just enough for Fast Healing to get it back up to speed, then back to attack you(ie, no XP since you didn't actually "defeat" it). Failing that, it decides to burn one of its Greater Dispel Magics upon your Fly, in which case, you're in the same boat. We all know Reverse Gravity is broken as hell. Yes, so is the crab, but trying to find something other than "Batman wins. Again." is part of the challenge of this.

[Cogwheel]

Ya know what? Nix some of those hit dice, or keep 'em, and add the half-fiend template. horribly evil spells at an amazing caster level, not to mention wings.:smallbiggrin:

[AtomicKitKat]

Ya know what? Nix some of those hit dice, or keep 'em, and add the half-fiend template. horribly evil spells at an amazing caster level, not to mention wings.:smallbiggrin:

Fey-touched will make it immune to Mind-affecting again, for like 1 LA(no idea how much it jacks CR). Oddly, Half-Fey lacks the immunity to Mind-Affecting(or even Enchantment, for that matter. O_o), but will give Wings with great Manoeuvrability, and a bunch of SLAs.

[Fax Celestis]

Fey-touched will make it immune to Mind-affecting again, for like 1 LA(no idea how much it jacks CR). Oddly, Half-Fey lacks the immunity to Mind-Affecting(or even Enchantment, for that matter. O_o), but will give Wings with great Manoeuvrability, and a bunch of SLAs.

Half-fey does give Immunity to Enchantment.

[Bauglir]

Blast. That'll make it harder to kill. Possibly the same build, but with Arcane Thesis and Enervation instead of Ray of Stupidity? Is it immune to negative levels yet?

[AtomicKitKat]

Blast. That'll make it harder to kill. Possibly the same build, but with Arcane Thesis and Enervation instead of Ray of Stupidity? Is it immune to negative levels yet?

Endurance+Enduring Life+Lasting Life

Now it gets to remove 1 Negative Level per round as a standard action, and can delay Negative Levels' effects for 1 round per Con Mod after it lands.

[Keld Denar]

Not yet....Hmmmm

Arcane Thesis (Eneveration)
Metamagic School Focus (Necromany)
Split Ray
Empower Spell
Quicken Spell

Split Empower Eneveration is a level 4 spell for 3d4 neg levels (average 7.5).
Quickened Split Empower Eneveration is a 6th level spell for same.

That's an average of 15 neg levels per round if you can get past the touch AC and the SR. 2-3 rounds of blasting from a buffed level 20 wiz and you could probably take it out.

And then it would rise the next night as a THAT DARN CRAB WIGHT!

[Fax Celestis]

This may solve some issues.

Divine Pseudonatural Paragon Advanced Monstrous Crab (CR 33)
N Huge Outsider (extraplanar, aquatic, augmented vermin)
Init +13; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent, Listen +42, Spot +37
Languages Aquan
AC 86 (Size -2, Dex +13, Luck +15, Insight +12, Natural +35, Deflection +3), touch 51, flat-footed 73
hp 544 (16 HD)
Immune mind-affecting effects, transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, aging
Resist fire 10, cold 10, electricity 35, acid 35
DR 15/epic
SR 80
Fort +34, Ref +28, Will +28
Spd 280 ft. (56 squares)
Melee epic tentacle +78 (2d8+46) or
Melee epic claw +78 (2d6+46) or
Melee 5 epic tentacles +78 (2d8+46) and
Melee 2 epic claws +78 (2d6+46)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Base Atk +12; Grp +82
Atk Options constrict 4d6+46, improved grab, rotting constriction
Abilities Str 63, Dex 36, Con 39, Int 18, Wis 36, Cha 17
SQ amphibious, fast healing 20, constant insight, spell-like abilities, alternate form
Divine Rank 0, domain SLAs (Ocean, Water, Celerity, Animal, Watery Death), grant spells
Feats ToughnessB, Combat Reflexes, Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Awesome Blow, Multiattack, Improved Multiattack
Skills Balance +42, Climb +55, Hide +27, Jump +55, Listen +42, Move Silently +31, Spot +37, Tumble +42

Amphibious (Ex): Although an advanced Huge monstrous crab is aquatic, it can survive indefinitely on land.

Constrict (Ex): An advanced Huge monstrous crab deals damage equal to twice its normal claw damage plus its Strength bonus on a successful grapple check.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an advanced Huge monstrous crab must hit with a claw or tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple with a +13 bonus as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Rotting Constriction (Ex): Once the creature has hold of an opponent, each successful grapple check it makes during subsequent rounds permanently drains 2d4 points of Constitution. At the same time, the creature regains 10 lost hit points.

Constant Insight (Su): The creature makes all its attacks with a +15 insight bonus. The creature is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target. This bonus is included in the statistics above.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): At will—blur, dimension door, shield, unhallow. Caster level 35th.
At will—obscuring mist, fog cloud, water breathing, control water, ice storm, cone of cold, acid fog, horrid wilting, elemental swarm, calm animals, hold animal, dominate animal, summon nature's ally IV, commune with nature, antilife shell, animal shapes, summon nature's ally VIII, shapechange, entangle, mark of the outcast, control water, rushing waters, dehydrate, drown, contagious fog, horrid wilting, mass drown, endure elements, sound burst, water breathing, freedom of movement, wall of ice, freezing sphere, waterspout, maelstrom, elemental swarm, expeditious retreat, cat's grace, blur, haste, tree stride, wind walk, mass cat's grace, greater blink, time stop. Caster level 25th.
3/day—greater dispel, see invisibility, haste. Caster level 15th.

The DCs are Charisma-based.

Alternate Form (Su): At will, a pseudonatural creature can take the form of a grotesque, tentacled mass (or another appropriately gruesome form), but all its abilities remain unchanged despite the alien appearance. Changing shape is a standard action. Other creatures receive a -1 morale penalty on their attack rolls against pseudonatural creatures in this alternate form.
GOD OF CRABS.

[Keld Denar]

GOD OF CRABS.

Hmmm...is this what you get when you go to the diefic brothel in the sky?

[Fax Celestis]

Hmmm...is this what you get when you go to the diefic brothel in the sky?

No, that's crabs of gods.

[Kaelik]

Back to a twinked out Warlock then? Stupid immunity to energy Drain.

Okay, 9d6+xd6Epic Progression?+2d6 Fell Chausable + 6d6 Hellfire + 1d6 for some MiC stuff probably or that charged staff of Precision thing=18d6 + Epic.

Say 20d6 for simplicity, average is 70 Damage. No problem.

Supernatural Transformation for (Su).

To hit? Wands of Divine Power. Luck bonuses? Weapon Focus? Help me out here.

Does BAB go into Epic? Can the wording of Divine Power be exploited to get +30 even if it doesn't?

His Touch+Flat Footed AC can't be greater then 35 as I see it (don't know if Luck and Insight apply.)

[ALOR]

Wow fax and i thought crab rangoon was about the most chesse and crab i could find together.
Bravo sir!!
:smallbiggrin:

[Callos_DeTerran]

Divine Pseudonatural Paragon Advanced Monstrous Crab (CR 33)
N Huge Outsider (extraplanar, aquatic, augmented vermin)
Init +13; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent, Listen +42, Spot +37
Languages Aquan
AC 86 (Size -2, Dex +13, Luck +15, Insight +12, +35 Natural, Deflection +3), touch 51, flat-footed 73
hp 544 (16 HD)
Immune mind-affecting effects, transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, aging
Resist fire 10, cold 10, electricity 35, acid 35
DR 15/epic
SR 80
Fort +34, Ref +28, Will +28
Spd 280 ft. (56 squares)
Melee epic tentacle +78 (2d8+46) or
Melee epic claw +78 (2d6+46) or
Melee 5 epic tentacles +78 (2d8+46) and
Melee 2 epic claws +78 (2d6+46)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Base Atk +12; Grp +82
Atk Options constrict 4d6+46, improved grab, rotting constriction
Abilities Str 63, Dex 36, Con 39, Int 18, Wis 36, Cha 17
SQ amphibious, fast healing 20, constant insight, spell-like abilities, alternate form
Divine Rank 0, domain SLAs (Ocean, Water, Celerity, Animal), grant spells
Feats ToughnessB, Combat Reflexes, Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Awesome Blow, Multiattack, Improved Multiattack
Skills Balance +42, Climb +55, Hide +27, Jump +55, Listen +42, Move Silently +31, Spot +37, Tumble +42

Amphibious (Ex): Although an advanced Huge monstrous crab is aquatic, it can survive indefinitely on land.

Constrict (Ex): An advanced Huge monstrous crab deals damage equal to twice its normal claw damage plus its Strength bonus on a successful grapple check.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an advanced Huge monstrous crab must hit with a claw or tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple with a +13 bonus as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Rotting Constriction (Ex)
Once the creature has hold of an opponent, each successful grapple check it makes during subsequent rounds permanently drains 2d4 points of Constitution. At the same time, the creature regains 10 lost hit points.

Constant Insight (Su)
The creature makes all its attacks with a +15 insight bonus. The creature is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target. This bonus is included in the statistics above.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)
At will—blur, dimension door, shield, unhallow. Caster level 35th.
At will—Any spell from the Ocean, Water, Celerity, or Animal domains. Caster level 25th.
3/day—greater dispel, see invisibility, haste. Caster level 15th.

The DCs are Charisma-based.

Alternate Form (Su)
At will, a pseudonatural creature can take the form of a grotesque, tentacled mass (or another appropriately gruesome form), but all its abilities remain unchanged despite the alien appearance. Changing shape is a standard action. Other creatures receive a -1 morale penalty on their attack rolls against pseudonatural creatures in this alternate form.
GOD OF CRABS.

:smalleek: I have seen the Far Realm, and the Far Realm is this! All hail the god of crabs and the Crab of Gods!


...Do you know what you've done Fax? This thing will actually be appearing in one of my games now, thanks to this thread. I can see it now...

The scuttling hosts of those damn crabs part as reality itself wraps and screams at the unfairness of your fate, allowing entry for the incarnation of crabs and death at the very same time. Tentacles writhe and slap wetly at the air, protruding from a pristine red shell that perfectly mirrors the overcast and dark sky above. Pincers the size of warhorses clatter and close eagerly as Crabthulhu approaches what is soon to be another doomed morsel for it's unholy hunger. McInevereatmeat, your druid, whimpers as he reads the intentions of the suddenly much less threatening ordinary damn crabs scurrying around the god's legs.

"It...It demands mushrooms, a mate, and human sacrifice!"

...Dare you refuse the God-Crab?

[dyslexicfaser]

PPDC mating.

I am afraid.

[Bauglir]

Curses! Ok, new plan. Pyrokineticist. Rogue 5/Pyrokineticist 10/Any Moderate Bloodline/Uncanny Trickster 3. DC 25 base for Heat Death. Then we start with 18 Cha, play a Spellscale or Hellbred or something with a Cha bonus, +6 item, +5 tome, +5 levels, turn on our Nimbus for another +4, for a total of 40 Cha. Now we're up to DC 40. Then we grab Ability Focus for another +2, for DC 42. The crab needs to roll 15 or higher. Somewhere along the way, we've also grabbed whatever preferred feat allows you to treat UMD as a class skill, or we've cross-classed it and bought a competence item, it doesn't matter which. Superior Invisibility again so it can't find us, allowing us to keep doing this until it dies. Then we Heat Death it to, well, death.

Unless Heat Death is a Death effect, but I don't think it is. Unless anything that's save-or-die is a death effect, but then Death Ward is a whole lot more useful.

[Mewtarthio]

This may solve some issues.

Divine Pseudonatural Paragon Advanced Monstrous Crab (CR 33)
N Huge Outsider (extraplanar, aquatic, augmented vermin)
Init +13; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent, Listen +42, Spot +37
Languages Aquan
AC 86 (Size -2, Dex +13, Luck +15, Insight +12, +35 Natural, Deflection +3), touch 51, flat-footed 73
hp 544 (16 HD)
Immune mind-affecting effects, transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, aging
Resist fire 10, cold 10, electricity 35, acid 35
DR 15/epic
SR 80
Fort +34, Ref +28, Will +28
Spd 280 ft. (56 squares)
Melee epic tentacle +78 (2d8+46) or
Melee epic claw +78 (2d6+46) or
Melee 5 epic tentacles +78 (2d8+46) and
Melee 2 epic claws +78 (2d6+46)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Base Atk +12; Grp +82
Atk Options constrict 4d6+46, improved grab, rotting constriction
Abilities Str 63, Dex 36, Con 39, Int 18, Wis 36, Cha 17
SQ amphibious, fast healing 20, constant insight, spell-like abilities, alternate form
Divine Rank 0, domain SLAs (Ocean, Water, Celerity, Animal), grant spells
Feats ToughnessB, Combat Reflexes, Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Awesome Blow, Multiattack, Improved Multiattack
Skills Balance +42, Climb +55, Hide +27, Jump +55, Listen +42, Move Silently +31, Spot +37, Tumble +42

Amphibious (Ex): Although an advanced Huge monstrous crab is aquatic, it can survive indefinitely on land.

Constrict (Ex): An advanced Huge monstrous crab deals damage equal to twice its normal claw damage plus its Strength bonus on a successful grapple check.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an advanced Huge monstrous crab must hit with a claw or tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple with a +13 bonus as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Rotting Constriction (Ex)
Once the creature has hold of an opponent, each successful grapple check it makes during subsequent rounds permanently drains 2d4 points of Constitution. At the same time, the creature regains 10 lost hit points.

Constant Insight (Su)
The creature makes all its attacks with a +15 insight bonus. The creature is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target. This bonus is included in the statistics above.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)
At will—blur, dimension door, shield, unhallow. Caster level 35th.
At will—Any spell from the Ocean, Water, Celerity, or Animal domains. Caster level 25th.
3/day—greater dispel, see invisibility, haste. Caster level 15th.

The DCs are Charisma-based.

Alternate Form (Su)
At will, a pseudonatural creature can take the form of a grotesque, tentacled mass (or another appropriately gruesome form), but all its abilities remain unchanged despite the alien appearance. Changing shape is a standard action. Other creatures receive a -1 morale penalty on their attack rolls against pseudonatural creatures in this alternate form.
GOD OF CRABS.

Ah, good. Now this beast can be officially classified as an Abomination.

...I was just about to stat up That Damned Were-Crab (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a) and start looking for nasty class levels, but I don't think I can top that.

[Foeofthelance]

First they brought you the Ikea Terrasque!

Then they brought you Pun-Pun!

Not yet satisified, they released the Ikea Terrasque Version 2.0!

Now, fresh off the drawing boards, the Deluxe That Damned Crab! Only from OotS Development!

Order of the Stick Development, giving players and DMs alike nightmares for the rest of their lives.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Could somebody give me a link to the Ikea Tarrasque?

Also,do the folks at Wizards know about this yet?

[Galathir]

The search function is your friend: Linky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20160&highlight=ikea).

[Foeofthelance]

Also,do the folks at Wizards know about this yet?

No, they do not, nor do we want them to know, so we don't tell them. If they ever got word of some of the monstrosities running around as a result of their books, they might actually think and try to balance things. That would spoil the game horribly.

Now excuse me. After realizing undead can't have regeneration my players are now trying to use a Warforged to become unkillable...

[RTGoodman]

This may solve some issues.

Divine Pseudonatural Paragon Advanced Monstrous Crab (CR 33)
N Huge Outsider (extraplanar, aquatic, augmented vermin)
Init +13; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent, Listen +42, Spot +37
Languages Aquan
AC 86 (Size -2, Dex +13, Luck +15, Insight +12, +35 Natural, Deflection +3), touch 51, flat-footed 73
hp 544 (16 HD)
Immune mind-affecting effects, transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, aging
Resist fire 10, cold 10, electricity 35, acid 35
DR 15/epic
SR 80
Fort +34, Ref +28, Will +28
Spd 280 ft. (56 squares)
Melee epic tentacle +78 (2d8+46) or
Melee epic claw +78 (2d6+46) or
Melee 5 epic tentacles +78 (2d8+46) and
Melee 2 epic claws +78 (2d6+46)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Base Atk +12; Grp +82
Atk Options constrict 4d6+46, improved grab, rotting constriction
Abilities Str 63, Dex 36, Con 39, Int 18, Wis 36, Cha 17
SQ amphibious, fast healing 20, constant insight, spell-like abilities, alternate form
Divine Rank 0, domain SLAs (Ocean, Water, Celerity, Animal), grant spells
Feats ToughnessB, Combat Reflexes, Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Awesome Blow, Multiattack, Improved Multiattack
Skills Balance +42, Climb +55, Hide +27, Jump +55, Listen +42, Move Silently +31, Spot +37, Tumble +42

Amphibious (Ex): Although an advanced Huge monstrous crab is aquatic, it can survive indefinitely on land.

Constrict (Ex): An advanced Huge monstrous crab deals damage equal to twice its normal claw damage plus its Strength bonus on a successful grapple check.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an advanced Huge monstrous crab must hit with a claw or tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple with a +13 bonus as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Rotting Constriction (Ex)
Once the creature has hold of an opponent, each successful grapple check it makes during subsequent rounds permanently drains 2d4 points of Constitution. At the same time, the creature regains 10 lost hit points.

Constant Insight (Su)
The creature makes all its attacks with a +15 insight bonus. The creature is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target. This bonus is included in the statistics above.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)
At will—blur, dimension door, shield, unhallow. Caster level 35th.
At will—Any spell from the Ocean, Water, Celerity, or Animal domains. Caster level 25th.
3/day—greater dispel, see invisibility, haste. Caster level 15th.

The DCs are Charisma-based.

Alternate Form (Su)
At will, a pseudonatural creature can take the form of a grotesque, tentacled mass (or another appropriately gruesome form), but all its abilities remain unchanged despite the alien appearance. Changing shape is a standard action. Other creatures receive a -1 morale penalty on their attack rolls against pseudonatural creatures in this alternate form.
GOD OF CRABS.


I don't know anything about deity-creation or anything (or, specifically, about the "domain SLAs" thing), but I would suggest for other domains the Watery Death (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/domain.pl?Watery_Death) Domain. It seems to fit well with the DPPDC.

[Fax Celestis]

I don't know anything about deity-creation or anything (or, specifically, about the "domain SLAs" thing), but I would suggest for other domains the Watery Death (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/domain.pl?Watery_Death) Domain. It seems to fit well with the DPPDC.

YES. YES IT DOES. Excellent.

[Bauglir]

That is possibly the most winsome Domain I've ever seen. Excellent find, sir!

On a tangentially related matter, have I missed something about the Heat Death spamming? If it works, we be eating hideously alien ultra-deity crab for dinner... Let's give a plate to some puppies first. As charity. Not to test for possible resulting horrible deaths. Really.
EDIT: Oh. Just read it. I fail at life, I guess. Well, drop the bloodline levels and Uncanny Trickster. Why I thought the DC was based on class levels is beyond me. Well, in that case, since we don't need 5 of the levels, let me find appropriate templates.

[Fax Celestis]

That is possibly the most winsome Domain I've ever seen. Excellent find, sir!

On a tangentially related matter, have I missed something about the Heat Death spamming? If it works, we be eating hideously alien ultra-deity crab for dinner... Let's give a plate to some puppies first. As charity. Not to test for possible resulting horrible deaths. Really.

The Heat Death spamming method should technically work, since the ability itself is not technically a death effect. However, since it is a save-or-die ability, it should be a [Death] effect.

Do note that Heat Death requires a full round action and requires you to be within 30'. This puts you well within DPPDC's "radius o' pain"--with a landspeed of 280' and 15' reach, anything within 575' has the potential to be doomed.

[martyboy74]

The Heat Death spamming method should technically work, since the ability itself is not technically a death effect. However, since it is a save-or-die ability, it should be a [Death] effect.

Do note that Heat Death requires a full round action and requires you to be within 30'. This puts you well within DPPDC's "radius o' pain"--with a landspeed of 280' and 15' reach, anything within 575' has the potential to be doomed.

Except if you're incorporeal. The only way it can hurt then is by hitting you with SLAs, and several of those wouldn't be able to hurt you either.

Good god, why does no one prepare for incorporeality in the PCs?

[Fax Celestis]

Except if you're incorporeal. The only way it can hurt then is by hitting you with SLAs, and several of those wouldn't be able to hurt you either.

Good god, why does no one prepare for incorporeality in the PCs?

Let's see about the ones he can hit you with though.

Domain spells at will (CL 25th): Obscuring Mist, Fog Cloud, Water Breathing, Control Water, Ice Storm, Cone of Cold, Acid Fog, Horrid Wilting, Elemental Swarm, Calm Animals, Hold Animal, Dominate Animal, Summon Nature’s Ally IV, Commune with Nature, Antilife Shell, Animal Shapes, Summon Nature’s Ally VIII, Shapechange, Entangle, Mark of the Outcast, Control Water, Rushing Waters, Dehydrate, Drown, Contagious Fog, Horrid Wilting, Mass Drown, Endure Elements, Sound Burst, Water Breathing, Freedom of Movement, Wall of Ice, Freezing Sphere, Waterspout, Maelstrom, Elemental Swarm, Expeditious Retreat, Cat's Grace, Blur, Haste, Tree Stride, Wind Walk, Mass Cat's Grace, Greater Blink, Time Stop

Ones that are relevant to this discussion: ice storm, cone of cold, acid fog, horrid wilting, shapechange, drown, contagious fog, mass drown, sound burst, wall of ice, freezing sphere, waterspout, maelstrom, time stop.

Hell, DPPDC here can time stop, and then spend his free time using elemental swarm and/or summon nature's ally VIII (with or without animal shapes and shapechange) repeatedly during his free rounds--or trap you in walls of ice. Alternatively, he could merely shapechange into something capable of hitting incorporeal targets--like, say, staying himself but adding the Ghost template.

[martyboy74]

Hell, DPPDC here can time stop, and then spend his free time using elemental swarm and/or summon nature's ally VIII (with or without animal shapes and shapechange) repeatedly during his free rounds--or trap you in walls of ice. Alternatively, he could merely shapechange into something capable of hitting incorporeal targets--like, say, staying himself but adding the Ghost template.
Obviously, Time Stop works normally; let's look at the others.
Elemental swarm: Useless; water elementals can't hit incorporeal creatures.
Summon Nature's Ally X: Mostly useless; there's probably a creature in some splatbook that can hit incorporeal creatures.
Animal Shapes: Useless, none of them can hit incorporeal creatures. Seeing a trend?
Walls of Ice: How're they going to trap an incorporeal creature?
Shapechange: It lets you change into non-unique creatures. I'm pretty sure the the PPDC is unique. This would be useful for altering the summoned swarms into something that can hit incorporeals, but it's personal range.

So, simply become incorporeal reduces the PPDC into a fight against the PPDC changed into a much weaker creature (unless the DM homebrews something. That changes everything).


I would talk about the rest of the spells on the list, but I don't have access to most of them.

[Fax Celestis]

And how are you acquiring incorporeality?

[Mewtarthio]

Shouldn't giving him Divine Rank 0 add a few points of CR?

[Fax Celestis]

Shouldn't giving him Divine Rank 0 add a few points of CR?

Technically, yes, but Divine Rank 0 says nothing about CR increase.

[martyboy74]

And how are you acquiring incorporeality?

It is CR 33. You could only have A DC 31 spellcraft check lets you use the transform seed to turn any one permanently incorporeal. Making the casting time 21 minutes lets it only be a DC 11 check; that takes a whole 2 days to research. And it's ridiculously useful. I figured that was a simple enough method not to require mention. And, actually, there are a kajillion other ways to do so (not the least of which is being a ghost yourself).

[Fax Celestis]

It is CR 33. You could only have A DC 31 spellcraft check lets you use the transform seed to turn any one permanently incorporeal. I figured that was a simple enough method not to require mention. And, actually, there are a kajillion other ways to do so (not the least of which is being a ghost yourself).

It also has a greater dispel magic SLA. That'll strip the incorporeality, won't it?

[Mewtarthio]

It also has a greater dispel magic SLA. That'll strip the incorporeality, won't it?

Hire your epic necromancer buddy to create an epic spell that turns you into a ghost. Heck, you could do this on yourself: (Slay DC 25, Animate Dead DC 23, animate as Ghost +8 DC, change Range to Personal -2 DC, increase casting time to ten minutes -18 DC, final DC 36) makes an epic spell that seperates your soul from your body, turning you into a Ghost.

[martyboy74]

True. Hmm...how to get around that...

Two questions:
Can you counterspell with a spell from a magic item?
Are SLAs counterspellable?

Is so, give the fighter a X of Dispel Magic, Greater, and tell him to use it whenever the crab attempts to use an SLA. That would actually remove any threat the crab proves. Yet again, this would be a ridiculously useful item if the answers to the above two questions are yeses.

This is starting to turn into a rather comedic image.


Hire your epic necromancer buddy to create an epic spell that turns you into a ghost. Heck, you could do this on yourself: (Slay DC 25, Animate Dead DC 23, animate as Ghost +8 DC, change Range to Personal -2 DC, increase casting time to ten minutes -18 DC, final DC 36) makes an epic spell that seperates your soul from your body, turning you into a Ghost.

The Manifestation could be dispelled, returning you to being an etheral (and thus, useless) creature.

[Mewtarthio]

The Manifestation could be dispelled, returning you to being an etheral (and thus, useless) creature.

But Manifestation is Supernatural. It can't be dispelled.

[martyboy74]

*goes and rereads rules on supernatural abilities*

Hunh. You're right. That would be effective against the PPDC. Of course, you'd still have to worry about AMFs (I know you have resistance, but you should be able to do better than that).

[Lord Iames Osari]

This may solve some issues.

Divine Pseudonatural Paragon Advanced Monstrous Crab (CR 33)
N Huge Outsider (extraplanar, aquatic, augmented vermin)
Init +13; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent, Listen +42, Spot +37
Languages Aquan
AC 86 (Size -2, Dex +13, Luck +15, Insight +12, Natural +35, Deflection +3), touch 51, flat-footed 73
hp 544 (16 HD)
Immune mind-affecting effects, transmutation, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, aging
Resist fire 10, cold 10, electricity 35, acid 35
DR 15/epic
SR 80
Fort +34, Ref +28, Will +28
Spd 280 ft. (56 squares)
Melee epic tentacle +78 (2d8+46) or
Melee epic claw +78 (2d6+46) or
Melee 5 epic tentacles +78 (2d8+46) and
Melee 2 epic claws +78 (2d6+46)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Base Atk +12; Grp +82
Atk Options constrict 4d6+46, improved grab, rotting constriction
Abilities Str 63, Dex 36, Con 39, Int 18, Wis 36, Cha 17
SQ amphibious, fast healing 20, constant insight, spell-like abilities, alternate form
Divine Rank 0, domain SLAs (Ocean, Water, Celerity, Animal, Watery Death), grant spells
Feats ToughnessB, Combat Reflexes, Improved Grapple, Power Attack, Awesome Blow, Multiattack, Improved Multiattack
Skills Balance +42, Climb +55, Hide +27, Jump +55, Listen +42, Move Silently +31, Spot +37, Tumble +42

Amphibious (Ex): Although an advanced Huge monstrous crab is aquatic, it can survive indefinitely on land.

Constrict (Ex): An advanced Huge monstrous crab deals damage equal to twice its normal claw damage plus its Strength bonus on a successful grapple check.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an advanced Huge monstrous crab must hit with a claw or tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple with a +13 bonus as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

Rotting Constriction (Ex): Once the creature has hold of an opponent, each successful grapple check it makes during subsequent rounds permanently drains 2d4 points of Constitution. At the same time, the creature regains 10 lost hit points.

Constant Insight (Su): The creature makes all its attacks with a +15 insight bonus. The creature is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target. This bonus is included in the statistics above.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): At will—blur, dimension door, shield, unhallow. Caster level 35th.
At will—obscuring mist, fog cloud, water breathing, control water, ice storm, cone of cold, acid fog, horrid wilting, elemental swarm, calm animals, hold animal, dominate animal, summon nature's ally IV, commune with nature, antilife shell, animal shapes, summon nature's ally VIII, shapechange, entangle, mark of the outcast, control water, rushing waters, dehydrate, drown, contagious fog, horrid wilting, mass drown, endure elements, sound burst, water breathing, freedom of movement, wall of ice, freezing sphere, waterspout, maelstrom, elemental swarm, expeditious retreat, cat's grace, blur, haste, tree stride, wind walk, mass cat's grace, greater blink, time stop. Caster level 25th.
3/day—greater dispel, see invisibility, haste. Caster level 15th.

The DCs are Charisma-based.

Alternate Form (Su): At will, a pseudonatural creature can take the form of a grotesque, tentacled mass (or another appropriately gruesome form), but all its abilities remain unchanged despite the alien appearance. Changing shape is a standard action. Other creatures receive a -1 morale penalty on their attack rolls against pseudonatural creatures in this alternate form.
GOD OF CRABS.

Once again:

Kill it with antimatter. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2010735&postcount=38)

[Bauglir]

Superior Invisibility. Not foiled by See Invisibility, and hides you from very nearly every form of detection. Spell Compendium, 8th level spell. Get a scroll of it, and UMD for good times. Here's what I suggest. A Phrenic Hellbred Saint for a racial Cha bonus of +10 and 4 of the 5 possible leveling points, and buy a scroll of Righteous Aura as well. So, here we go. 18 to begin, +10 racial, +6 item, +4 tome, +4 level, +4 nimbus, +4 sacred (from Righteous Aura) for a total of 50 Cha. +20 Bonus. So our DC is 34+2 Ability Focus+2 Saint for a total of 38. That Damn Crab CAN fail, but has to roll 3 or less to do it. So this is going to take a while. But, meanwhile, it can't find us and we can just keep getting and expending our Psionic focus to do this over and over again. And if we need it, we've got a couple of backup scrolls of Righteous Aura for when that runs out. And at least two more Superior Invisibility ones. If you REALLY want to be safe, grab a couple of scrolls of Ghostform. The odds of it actually hitting you with a dispel are pretty slim, and if it does, then at least you paid extra to get your scrolls made at CL 20, so it's got an even chance of dispelling it. If we're able to buy epic items, then heck, we've got CL 31 scrolls, which, while costing tens of thousands of gp, cannot be dispelled by Greater Dispel Magic.

Wait. The Horrible Crab God That Makes Cthulhu Cry doesn't have True Seeing does it?

[martyboy74]

Once again:

Kill it with antimatter. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2010735&postcount=38)

I think we're trying to kill it without falling past its level of cheese.

[Lord Iames Osari]

I think we're trying to kill it without falling past its level of cheese.

Oh, my bad. Sorry.

[purplearcanist]

Kill it with the Mirror of Opposition:smallbiggrin: .

[Bauglir]

... now why didn't I think of that? Set up 4 duplicates that all disappear when the original dies. That's not a bad idea. Not a bad idea at all.

[AtomicKitKat]

So I'm guessing my original Warlock suggestion is probably the one with "shortest notice" win?:smallwink:

By the way, why does it have the Celerity Domain? I mean, Animal, Ocean, Water, Watery Death, sure, but Celerity?

Don't forget that you also get the granted Domain Powers of those domains(maybe unlimited, or not).

Edit: Domain Powers 1/Divine Rank/day.

Madness and Strength look like good fits to me. Where's Watery Death from again? I thought it was in Stormwrack, but looks like I was wrong.

[RTGoodman]

So I'm guessing my original Warlock suggestion is probably the one with "shortest notice" win?:smallwink:

By the way, why does it have the Celerity Domain? I mean, Animal, Ocean, Water, Watery Death, sure, but Celerity?

Don't forget that you also get the granted Domain Powers of those domains(maybe unlimited, or not).

Edit: Domain Powers 1/Divine Rank/day.

Madness and Strength look like good fits to me. Where's Watery Death from again? I thought it was in Stormwrack, but looks like I was wrong.

I think the Celerity domain is in honor of just how fast this abomination went from just That Damn Crab to That Divine Pseudonatural Paragon Advanced Damn Crab. :smallbiggrin:

Anyway, I think the Watery Death domain is from Player's Guide to Faerun or something other FR sourcebook (I'm not sure which - I don't own any, but I've flipped through a lot of friends' copies). I'm pretty sure the only deity that has it (besides our favorite newly-ascended crustacean-thing) is Blipdoolpoolp, the Kua-Toa god/goddess.

EDIT: Google's a great tool. The Crystal Keep D&D 3.5 Deity Index (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Deities.pdf) (warning - big PDF) lists it as one of Blipdoolpoolp's domains. However, this site (http://timjoh.com/dnd/?type=Domain) lists it as a "prestige domain" - I'm not sure what exactly that is, though.

[AtomicKitKat]

Prestige Domain=Usually only granted to specific Prestige Classes(eg. Blightbringer Prestige Domain for the Talontar Blightlord). Presumably they're also a smidge more powerful than the regular Domains granted by the Deity.

[Tor the Fallen]

What's keeping you from finger of death-ing it to oblivion?

[RTGoodman]

What's keeping you from finger of death-ing it to oblivion?



SR 80

And he has a +34 Fort Save. Also, he has Fast Healing 20, which means that if he fails his save, at max he's only taking 23 points of damage per round (3d6+25, minus 20 for FH).

Of course, he also has Dimension Door at will, plus all of his other SLAs to destroy you with before you can do him in.

[martyboy74]

Its SR and save. If you can tell us how to get past SR 80 at level level 33 of lower with, say, a 75% chance (+65), tell us.

The less cheese the better; technically a cosmic descryer could use Cosmic Connection with Delay Death and a bucket of water to get an infinite caster level.

[Tor the Fallen]

Its SR and save. If you can tell us how to get past SR 80 at level level 33 of lower with, say, a 75% chance (+65), tell us.

The less cheese the better; technically a cosmic descryer could use Cosmic Connection with Delay Death and a bucket of water to get an infinite caster level.

33 levels, 10 from roll (arcane mastery), 10 from assay spell resistance, 27 orange ioun stones. Hell, you can get 33 of those buggers for less than a million gold.

I was thinking using Wish to make it fail its save, but it doesn't work like that.

[Kaelik]

And of course it is immune to death effects. So even if it failed it's save and you overcame SR it would still just shrug at you (aka claw your face.)

[Bauglir]

Yeah, the Warlock looks like it's the best option if you've got buckets of time and no preparation. Grab a Greater Chasuble of Fell Power and that should put you over the top on average. And this WILL take long enough that the average will be about what ends up being important. Eldritch Spear and a good Hide check are a must, however (You'll be wanting at least 53 so that it can't see you with a natural 20 while you're sniping from 250 feet away, preferably 78 so that it can't do it if it gets within 5 feet of you, though you'll almost certainly want some way to keep close to it when it leaves upon realizing it can't find you).

I don't think Orange Ioun Stones stack. They're untyped bonuses from the same source. Same reason multiple Beads of Karma don't stack, as far as I know, else we'd just use those. Since they're cheaper and give a bigger bonus, only lasting for 10 minutes (long enough).

[martyboy74]

33 levels, 10 from roll (arcane mastery), 10 from assay spell resistance, 27 orange ioun stones. Hell, you can get 33 of those buggers for less than a million gold.

I was thinking using Wish to make it fail its save, but it doesn't work like that.

Bonuses from the same place don't stack unless specifically specified. No ioun stone cloud for you!


And of course it is immune to death effects. So even if it failed it's save and you overcame SR it would still just shrug at you (aka claw your face.)

Show me where in the stat block it says that it's immune to death effects.

[GoC]

I use Epic Spellcasting+Epic Leadership or Legendary Commander to give myself a contingent destroy attack that deals 200d6 of damage with a +50 for bypassing SR and a +10 on the save DC. I then use the same method to give myself +100 Dex.
Next I cast True Strike and teleport in.

Ok, so now that we know it can be taken down using the second most cheesy method available let's see if it can be done using RAI...:smalltongue:

Divine rank 0 increases CR by 5 at least. And I'd estimate that each domain gives +2. So all I need to do is find a lvl 50 character who can kill it...

[Bauglir]

Actually, it's not immune to death effects. I just checked that. You're right, it needs Divine Rank 1 for that immunity.

[Tor the Fallen]

Bonuses from the same place don't stack unless specifically specified. No ioun stone cloud for you!

Fine. Give them different colors and shapes. They're untyped bonuses, anyway.

[martyboy74]

Untyped bonuses from the same source don't stack, unless they're specifically stated to.

[Tor the Fallen]

Untyped bonuses from the same source don't stack, unless they're specifically stated to.

Yeah, that's why you just get them in shades of orange. No longer the same source, since you've got you're orange ioun stone, amber ioun stone, gamboge ioun stone, persimmon ioun stone, pumpkin ioun stone, rust ioun stone, safety orange ioun stone, tangerine ioun stone, tenné ioun stone, burnt orange ioun stone, carrot orange ioun stone, orange peel ioun stone.....

[martyboy74]

...the orange faced DM ioun stoning you to death...

This is a low-cheese thread. We've already mentioned several ways to beat it by utilizing the power of the cheese; that's not the point. This isn't the Ikea Tarrasque.

[Bauglir]

Color and shape is immaterial to the function of magic items. Ioun stones are classified according to color and shape, but you could really just as easily have a green ioun stone fulfilling the same purpose. Flavor is irrelevant, and color and shape are clearly flavor (within limits). They still won't stack, being the same effect. And if you really do need it to be orange, then it MUST be orange, and some specific shade thereof, else all colors really are accessible, since you can get to all of them through shades of shades of shades of shades. So that doesn't dodge it either.

[Tor the Fallen]

Color and shape is immaterial to the function of magic items. Ioun stones are classified according to color and shape, but you could really just as easily have a green ioun stone fulfilling the same purpose. Flavor is irrelevant, and color and shape are clearly flavor (within limits). They still won't stack, being the same effect. And if you really do need it to be orange, then it MUST be orange, and some specific shade thereof, else all colors really are accessible, since you can get to all of them through shades of shades of shades of shades. So that doesn't dodge it either.

It was a joke that wasn't picked up on, so I had to explain it. Yet you still don't get it. Oh well.

[Yeril]

as I suggested, epic leadership, legendary commander, orc warlord PRC

Bam you just got a army of 50,000 1st level orc sorcerers.

magic missile? I dont know if natural 20's breach SR? however if they do then thats 2500d4+2500 damage/round

[martyboy74]

As it is not specifically stated that a natural 20 is an automatic success, it isn't. Therefore, that doesn't work.

[EndgamerAzari]

No, no, no..... you're all doing it wrong! THIS is how you do it!

http://www.fukung.net/v/3246/crab_battle_warning_sheet.jpg

[Kaelik]

Ummm... Magic Missle:
SR: No

Problem solved?

[Zincorium]

Ummm... Magic Missle:
SR: No

Problem solved?

Check again:



Magic Missile
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes


So, reverse the 'yes' to a 'no' in your statement and you'll be fine :smallbiggrin: . And we'll assume you were stating magic missile taking out the crab as the problem.

[Kaelik]

Check again:



So, reverse the 'yes' to a 'no' in your statement and you'll be fine :smallbiggrin: . And we'll assume you were stating magic missile taking out the crab as the problem.

Curse you 3ed? Seriously, that was always Magic Missiles strong point. It's an autohit for damage. Why would you use it if it wasn't?

[Zincorium]

Curse you 3ed? Seriously, that was always Magic Missiles strong point. It's an autohit for damage. Why would you use it if it wasn't?

It's still autohit in terms of not needing an attack roll and not allowing a save, that's pretty darn good, especially for a first level spell.

I think the fact that spell resistance still affects it is to remove situations like the one you suggest, where a high level critter can only be brought down with a first level spell.

[Bauglir]

Oh. My bad. Sorry. Silly interwebs, and more importantly, silly me. Gotta learn to read sarcasm. Though I think I've seen a similar argument somewhere, which might explain it. Where, though, I can't remember for my life.

[AtomicKitKat]

Huh. Quasi-Deity then? Rank 0 but still granting spells+Domains=Paragons(BoED)/Archfiends.

[Fax Celestis]

Huh. Quasi-Deity then? Rank 0 but still granting spells+Domains=Paragons(BoED)/Archfiends.

Right. Rank 0 is technically "demigod".

[daggaz]

:smalleek:
The scuttling hosts of those damn crabs part as reality itself wraps and screams at the unfairness of your fate, allowing entry for the incarnation of crabs and death at the very same time. Tentacles writhe and slap wetly at the air, protruding from a pristine red shell that perfectly mirrors the overcast and dark sky above. Pincers the size of warhorses clatter and close eagerly as Crabthulhu approaches what is soon to be another doomed morsel for it's unholy hunger. McInevereatmeat, your druid, whimpers as he reads the intentions of the suddenly much less threatening ordinary damn crabs scurrying around the god's legs.

"It...It demands mushrooms, a mate, and human sacrifice!"

...Dare you refuse the God-Crab?

QFT, my bolding.
Is there any way to get this crab to force sanity checks?

[Mewtarthio]

QFT, my bolding.
Is there any way to get this crab to force sanity checks?

He's a Huge Outsider. He automatically forces sanity checks. You could also make a case for him being an Evil God.