Forcecage + what? And action economy as a bonus question.

[Corran]

Going through the wizard's spells, I was very surprised to find out that forcecage does not require concentration. So that got me thinking the obvious, that if you manage to combine it with a zone effect that deals damage (and which typically uses concentration), well, that would be rather powerful. Now, I am sure this is not news to most of you, so which area spell do you prefer pairing with forcecage?

Unfortunately this requires two turns to pull it off, which leads me to think that this is hard to pull it off in practice. Because you would need to cast first the zone spell that causes damage, and then on the second round cast forcecage hoping that the enemies wont have moved by then (which is probably rather unlikely). Is there a way to go around that? Searching a bit about it, I came across the idea of using a few planar bound elementals to hold enemies in place long enough (ie for 1 round) for us to cast forcecage on the following turn after we cast cloudkill. I think this might be a bit of an overkill. Especially if the elementals have a good chance of winning/ maintaining a grapple, spending my 7th level slot to forcecage the grappled enemies instead of another one, seems kind of a waste of resources. I dunno. Any other ways to pull off forcecage + area spell?

ps: Is this whole tactics basically an overkill?

[Unoriginal]

Outside magic doesn't work inside a closed forcecage. If the forcecage isn't closed, then it doesn't matter when you cast the second spell (but anyone with a ranged weapon can manifest their displeasure).

[Dungeon-noob]

One question: why would you have to start of with the AoE instead of forcecage? I'm AFB, but i don't recall anything that would force that.

And yes, this strategy will probably often be overkill, if only because it hinges on combos with a 7th level spell slot.

[Corran]

Outside magic doesn't work inside a closed forcecage. If the forcecage isn't closed, then it doesn't matter when you cast the second spell (but anyone with a ranged weapon can manifest their displeasure).


One question: why would you have to start of with the AoE instead of forcecage? I'm AFB, but i don't recall anything that would force that.

And yes, this strategy will probably often be overkill, if only because it hinges on combos with a 7th level spell slot.
I was thinking of the solid box version. I was assuming that if for example I cast cloudkill at turn 1, and then at turn 2 I cast forcecage on the cloudkill's area, that wouldn't negate the effects of cloudkill while inside the box. While I wouldn't be able to cast cloudkill inside the forcecage box. Is that wrong?

[Unoriginal]

that wouldn't negate the effects of cloudkill while inside the box.

It would. At least to my knowledge.

[stoutstien]

Cloud kill is weak due to vast amount of things you want to blow a big spell slot on are immune to poison. Your best bet is honestly just everyone ready action when it breaks to Nova target. Delayed fireball works Well if not immune to fire but that's two different casters only 7th lv slot.

[Corran]

It would. At least to my knowledge.
Oh no...
I'll ask in the RAW thread (I want it to work so I don't trust my own judgement). Hope dies last!

[Dudewithknives]

Just make the forcecage barred.

it has 1/2 inch gaps, if your GM is nice enough to even allow arrows to pass through, which they probably can't, just shut the enemy or enemies inside and plunk them to death with a bow, stepping in and out of cover on your turn.

Even if the enemy also has a bow, they will only ever get one shot a turn due to having to ready an attack to hit you.

Forcecage, and Agonizing blast if warlock, until they are dead, throw in darkness if you want, they can't do anything about it.
Forcecage and AOE spells/Firebolt if Sorcerer/wizard.
Forcecage and Whatever you picked up with magical secrets if Bard.

It really is almost an instant win button spell, with no save, no concentration, no escape unless you are a full caster AND you do not get counter spelled AND you can see where you are going.

It never should have seen print.

[Corran]

Cloud kill is weak due to vast amount of things you want to blow a big spell slot on are immune to poison. Your best bet is honestly just everyone ready action when it breaks to Nova target. Delayed fireball works Well if not immune to fire but that's two different casters only 7th lv slot.
Yeah, half the MM is immune to poison damage, didn't think of that. :smallsigh:
Also yes, I was looking for a spell of 6th level or lower, so I could be able to pull this off all alone (assuming it works of course, which now I am very unsure of). The more I think of this though the less practical it starts to look.

[Corran]

It really is almost an instant win button spell, with no save, no concentration, no escape unless you are a full caster AND you do not get counter spelled AND you can see where you are going.

I think it might be a bit wasted if I used it against casters. Cause it's likely that they will have either dimension door, teleport or plane shift (assuming the pass the DC). I guess misty step and etherealness are the ones that don't work (assuming you block vision in the case of misty step), but the rest would probably be good countermeasures. Or am I missing anything?

[stoutstien]

It's a 7th lv slot it should be a encounter winning spell. Should it be immune to disintagrate? No.
Are most thing you want to put in the box to big? Yes
Do most caster type mobs have more than one counter for this yes. Had a player almost rage quit after he cast forcecage on a arch mage and the arch mage promptly counterspelled it with a 5th lv slot.

[Dudewithknives]

I think it might be a bit wasted if I used it against casters. Cause it's likely that they will have either dimension door, teleport or plane shift (assuming the pass the DC). I guess misty step and etherealness are the ones that don't work (assuming you block vision in the case of misty step), but the rest would probably be good countermeasures. Or am I missing anything?

Just counter spell them. You do not even need your other spell levels.
It does not even need to be any certain subclass or build, just one level 7 spell.

[dragoeniex]

If you're not overly concerned about dimension door and the like- or if you're not fighting high casters- barred forcecage followed by wall of fire, circled and pointed inward, works wonderfully. 5d8 fire damage with no save each round, and if they had weapons, now they can't see to fire them.

Essentially, you turn the oven on.

[darknite]

I've had success with the larger, barred Force Cage followed by Sickening Radiance. That stacked exhaustion and damage per turn is pretty nasty, especially over 10 minutes. It's range allows you to stand off a bit too, staying out of the range of breath weapons and the like.