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View Full Version : Guessing Thor and Loki are the actual leaders of the Northern Pantheon.



St Fan
2018-11-05, 02:03 PM
Okay, maybe I'm stating the obvious here, but...

With Odin "temporarily" (by divine standards) incapacited by his mental breakdown, it seems to me that that his sons are the de facto leaders of the Northen Pantheon in the interim.

There are strong hints of this; whenever there is interaction with a foreigner god (Tiger) or a potential one (Banjo), it's Thor who answers (with his father physically present, but that seems to be mere decorum).

And at the Godsmoot, it's Loki who speak for the side of saving the world, which would be a surprising choice if not for the fact he's been more involved in its current affairs than usual.

Beyond filiation, they are certainly the most powerful Northern gods around. And their enmity is largely played for laugh; for the important matters, like the Snarl, they are pretty much aligned with each other.

The fact that the two of them have opposite alignments isn't an hindrance, quite the contrary, it allows them to meet in the middle when decisions have to be taken.

In fact, I think that would explain why Thor seems not to be as Chaotic as expected (and for that matter, Loki not as Evil as expected), as they both have lots of responsibility, that force them to be more mature and responsible that they would be in other incarnations.

I could be wrong, of course, but I think that would explain a lot.

Rrmcklin
2018-11-05, 02:30 PM
Even if true, what would it matter? Though, several of your points are off either way.

Kish
2018-11-05, 02:31 PM
It might matter because Thor is easier for Loki to manipulate than Odin is when Odin's feeling more like himself.

Synesthesy
2018-11-06, 04:32 AM
I still feel Loki CN and Thor NG.

However, I agree with this thesis, but we should add that things like the Godsmooth means that the pantheon is more democratic than we would have expected. And Thor and Loki are the Northen Pantheon's presidents: they are the leader, but they still need to listen to the other gods and compromise.

eilandesq
2018-11-06, 05:03 AM
Given how Odin seems to operate this world cycle, are we sure that the whole "bet" thing wasn't something that Loki did on Odin's (possibly rather confused) orders, with the presentation being left to Loki either because he's the go to god for con jobs in the Northern Pantheon, or because Odin was incapable of doing anything beyond saying "get it done" in flowery language? If the ultimate goal that Odin's prophecy sense is leading them towards is "get the purple quiddity and permanently seal the Snarl in place," it's possible that the whole Hel gambit was meant to set *that* up, in spite of the obvious consequences it could have for the next world cycle if it blew up in their faces. "Worlds within worlds and yarn winding yarn," indeed.

Zholvar
2018-11-06, 05:21 AM
Only because we see Thor and Loki more than the others doesn't mean they pull all the strings / lead in interim. If that were the case, the northern Godsmoot wouldn't need 2 tiebreakers. Heimdall opens with "pro destroying the world" and enough Gods follow that.
I think Odins "weak phase", if it really a great deal, makes the Northern Pantheon really leaderless and open to all kinds of plots, not making his sons the Powers behind the Throne, we even see other northern Gods disagreeing with Thor & Lokis Plan to work with TDO.

Mad Humanist
2018-11-06, 06:40 AM
The OP means "de facto leaders", right?

I think the OP would be on firmer ground if the claim was that Thor and Loki are the leaders of one faction within the Northern pantheon.

Meanwhile Odin remains acknowledged as the leader in name. I am not clear how much impact it really has that he has been out to lunch for some time now.

Fnordius
2018-11-06, 08:35 AM
Well, it is a common trope for rivals to be friends behind the scenes. It would fit for Loki to be the secretly compassionate to Thor, in line with the TVTrope God Karting With Beelzebub (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodKartingWithBeelzebub).

Mordaedil
2018-11-07, 04:43 AM
I don't know which tradition the Loki of the comic stems from, but Loki has always been an enigma in that regard and him and Thor usually do end up being the focus of any story they appear in. Thor usually because he is large, boisterous and demands a large amount of attention by sheer prescence and Loki because he is usually the smartest person in the room regardless of whom he shares it with. It might be safe to say even when Odin has his marbles sorted, Loki still has a lot of say, but his more successful ploys don't draw attention to himself.

Which is why his ploys being discovered is what eventually leads to his sentence and death.