Questions on Runes

[Yogibear41]

Couple of questions in regard to runes the scroll like items from faerun.

Runes are always made from Divine spells, but can a Divine spell caster with the Inscribe Rune feat work together with another divinespellcaster of a different class to create a rune of a spell they don't normally have access to similar to the way you could do so with spells.

For example a Wizard can work with another Arcane spell caster to make a scroll of a spell the wizard cannot cast, provided the other caster can cast it.

Could say a Cleric with the Inscribe Rune feat work with a Paladin to produce a rune of a Paladin only spell?


Secondly the Forgotten Realms campaign setting says Deliberately Triggering a Rune is a Standard action, but what kind of action is it to not deliberately trigger the rune? Say for example a Cleric/Rune Caster made a Permanent rune of Divine Favor on a fighter's scabbard so every time he grabbed it to pull out his sword he had to touch the rune, would that just be apart of that normal action and not an additional standard action?

[Saintheart]

Couple of questions in regard to runes the scroll like items from faerun.

Runes are always made from Divine spells, but can a Divine spell caster with the Inscribe Rune feat work together with another divinespellcaster of a different class to create a rune of a spell they don't normally have access to similar to the way you could do so with spells.

For example a Wizard can work with another Arcane spell caster to make a scroll of a spell the wizard cannot cast, provided the other caster can cast it.

Could say a Cleric with the Inscribe Rune feat work with a Paladin to produce a rune of a Paladin only spell?

Some of this will be DM dependent, but the biggest anchor on this approach is: Inscribe Rune has a specific requirement that the maker of the rune must prepare the spell to be placed in the rune. So arguably giving people scrolls to cast into runes is out. On the other hand, since you only have to prepare "the spell", then an arcane spell you prepare but cast as a divine spell (e.g. Southern Magician, Alternative Source Spell) qualifies to be placed in a rune.

So a cleric with Inscribe Rune working with a Paladin probably couldn't pull this off ... but an Archivist who asked the Paladin for a scroll of his Paladin only spell could then scribe that spell into his prayerbook, and since it's a spell he prepares and it's a divine spell, the paladin's spell could go into a rune that way.


Secondly the Forgotten Realms campaign setting says Deliberately Triggering a Rune is a Standard action, but what kind of action is it to not deliberately trigger the rune? Say for example a Cleric/Rune Caster made a Permanent rune of Divine Favor on a fighter's scabbard so every time he grabbed it to pull out his sword he had to touch the rune, would that just be apart of that normal action and not an additional standard action?

Very good question, and one I fought over with several knowledgeable colleagues in the Runecaster Handbook, which is in my sig and in which you can see the debate preserved.

The consensus was essentially this: a rune is a use-activated magic item. We know this because there are only four categories of magic item: spell completion, command word, spell-command, or use-activated. A rune falls outside the first three mainly because it's a completed spell cast as a rune, and requires only a touch to activate. The SRD tells us that use-activated magic items are either a standard action to use "or no action at all." A trap doesn't require a standard action or even a swift action to fire, it just fires. So a rune used in an offensive fashion -- i.e. a rune of Fireball keyed to any opponent that comes within 30 feet of it -- just fires, boom.

This latter fact is exactly why the makers hamfistedly errata'ed the sentence that you're referring to, i.e. that deliberately triggering a rune is a standard action. They didn't want people free-activating their runes ... but they muffed the RAW and didn't quite eliminate the possibility, in my view.

Sadly, that particular spell - Divine Favor - would probably cost you a standard action to activate in that manner, because even if your intent is to pull your weapon, you're still activating the rune as you do so.

But - as you'll see in the handbook - there are still edge cases and objections to be made about this. Because, when an item's magical ability is "subsumed in its use", per the SRD, it doesn't require a standard action to activate. You don't use up a standard action to wear your Bracers of Bull's Strength, they're always on, wear them and you get the effect.

Rather than Divine Favour, then, how about this: scribe a rune of Greater Magic Weapon on the opening of your scabbard, such that the sword has to touch the rune when you draw it. I would argue (and have, unsuccessfully, in this forum) that this might not be a standard action because you basically can't use the weapon without it touching the rune, ergo, the magic item's activation is subsumed in its use. Or on another rationale: we know per Rune Magic's rules that if the spell in a rune affects an object, then an object must trigger the rune. Problem being that objects are nonsentient and can't take any actions by definition, so, no standard action to take.

Or here's another one: carve a rune on the handle of your returning weapon. Returning weapons can be called back to your hand as a free action, IIRC. When the weapon slaps back into your hand, you trigger the rune of True Strike written on it, but you weren't doing so deliberately - the intent of your action was to get your weapon back, so, again, arguably no standard action.

As said, the handbook contains the debate on it, and some of the unresolved questions or arguments you could make to a DM are in it as well - check about the third post into the Handbook, the overview of Rune Magic.