Protection against breath?

[Dark Schneider]

I see many drawings presenting someone casting a barrier as protection against a dragon breath, it looks nice, but it currently cannot think about something like that in D&D 5E. And lack group protections. Let's see protection options:

- Bless (group, concentration): to improve saving throws.
- Protection from energy (single, concentration): resistance.
- Absorb element (self): resistance.
- Protection from poison (single): resistance.

Am I missing something?

Then we have individual skills, like shield master or evasion, involving DEX saving throws. Rogue and monk OK they are good against DEX attacks, but in the case of fighter, you are conditioning to take that feat, while I think it would be better allow some caster to protect the group (fighter, himself and the others) from elemental damage.

Maybe the single target spells should allow to add 1 target per slot lvl over the base one? I miss something like that.

And, why protection from energy is concentration, and from poison not? I see well if you want to protect the group, to spend your involved lvl slots, but you can only do this against poison, but not elemental damage, even when the elemental one is greater lvl. More if we notice that for poison we can complement with antitoxin item to save spell slots.

Also, taking advantage we are talking about antitoxin, how it could be made? We have to use the herbalism kit, so proficiency with that, but what about the materials? I assume that if we purchase them, the cost could be half (25gp), but what about finding them in nature? We have to use Survival, Nature, or both skill?

[Unoriginal]

You're missing the actual Wall spells, for starter.

But really the best protection from dragon breath is to spread out.

Spells aren't the solutions to everything, nor perfect solutions when they exist.

[Dark Schneider]

The walls are easy to avoid simply moving on its turn.

Spells are not the solution for everything but are typical for protecting. I am not asking for immunity, but allowing to loss HP instead directly knocked out, so allow to heal after it, I think is not excesive.

[Corran]

Fire shield is another one (non-concentration). The investiture spells can help too. I specifically remember that investiture of flame gives immunity to fire damage (not exactly the image you were describing, but pretty cool nonetheless), but not sure about the rest of them. Bladesingers can also expend spell slots to reduce damage taken, and that's a useful thing to do when you are targeted by a sth like a dragon's breath. A transmutation wizard's stone can be used as a non-concentration protection from energy too. And then there are certain races and race specific feats that can grant you resistance to various damage forms. I am sure there are more things, but that's all I remember right now.

But yeah, as Unoriginal said, nothing beats the scatter option. Everything else just adds its bit on top of that.

[Unoriginal]

Spells are not the solution for everything but are typical for protecting.

Well given that you've constated yourself the spells do no protect, I don't know how you can declare them "typical for protecting".



I am not asking for immunity, but allowing to loss HP instead directly knocked out, so allow to heal after it, I think is not excesive.

Not sure what you mean by that.


Also for the antitoxin thing:

You need to spend half the item's price, and it'd take (item price in gp/50) weeks to do, so in the case of the antitoxin it would indeed require 25 gp and one week to craft it.

As for foraging for material: ask your DM. Some would allow you to do it, some wouldn't. Either Survival, Nature or Herbalist's Kit could be used to add proficiency to the ability check.

[Dark Schneider]

For casters is fine to be at long range, but I was thinking about the battlers and the supporting cleric. And precisely all that new protection spells (fire shield and investiture) are self range.

Even if you cast Expeditious Retreat to hold distance, it is concentration, so you could not cast Protection from energy on battler, that is the one spell you can cast on others. It's a bit weird that precisely the Protection against energy does not allows to add targets and is a concentration spell.


Well given that you've constated yourself the spells do no protect, I don't know how you can declare them "typical for protecting".
Typical for protecting on role-playing games. Because that I miss some kind of group protection, like an area or multiple targets. Take Globe of invulnerability and apply to elemental damage in example.


Not sure what you mean by that.
No protection, breath, you are knocked down.
Protection, breath, you take damage but resist (no HP reduced to 0), you receive healing.
Protection is for that, not for immunity, that yes could be excesive to ask for.

About crafting items, rules on DMG for crafting magical items could be used. They are 25gp/day for the object price (not material). Also applied to any type of object, i.e. for crafting weapons and armors with a proficent on smithing.

[Unoriginal]

For casters is fine to be at long range, but I was thinking about the battlers and the supporting cleric.

Yes, ranged combat isn't a cleric's strong suit, especially not when they're in support . But it's not supposed to be their strong suits.

As for battlers, they should have ranged options, such as bows or thrown weapons. The Paladin would be the most disadvantaged, probably, but they can still contribute.



It's a bit weird that precisely the Protection against energy does not allows to add targets and is a concentration spell.

Nothing weird about that. Protection from damage is very powerful, adding perks and removing the concentration would make it too powerful.



Typical for protecting on role-playing games.

You have expectations that are not the ones of Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition.



No protection, breath, you are knocked down.
Protection, breath, you take damage but resist (no HP reduced to 0), you receive healing.

Getting healed when your HPs are at 0 is generally considered to be better.



Protection is for that, not for immunity, that yes could be excesive to ask for.

Dragon's breath is supposed to be scary, and so are the other monster attacks. There are options to make things less scary, as you've listed some, but most of the time when you fight a monster you'll have to take risks.



About crafting items, rules on DMG for crafting magical items could be used. They are 25gp/day for the object price (not material). Also applied to any type of object, i.e. for crafting weapons and armors with a proficent on smithing.

Antitoxin uses the rules for crafting normal items. Material is generally handwaved because it's supposed you craft in an area where you can get the material in exchange for coins.

You can homebrew it differently if you wish, though.

Also those are not the rules for crafting magic items (at least, not in full). I'd advise you to reread them.

The crafting rules in the Xanathar's Guide to Everything are much better, you might want to read them.

[Dark Schneider]

Getting healed when your HPs are at 0 is generally considered to be better.
It is better not to be knocked down, as you lose the turn (unless many coincidences).


Antitoxin uses the rules for crafting normal items
Where are they?
Response: Ok at PHB downtime section.
So for antitoxin are 10 days and 25gp.


Also those are not the rules for crafting magic items (at least, not in full). I'd advise you to reread them.

The crafting rules in the Xanathar's Guide to Everything are much better, you might want to read them.
Don't have Xanathar, waiting for if it is going to be translated before getting the english version.
About magical items, I know, they also need a caster with certain level, the formula...was talking in general involving only cost and time.

[JackPhoenix]

Spread out, find (or make) cover, protect one idiot hero who stays in the open to draw the dragon's attention.

And get potions of resistance.

Further details and tactics depends on party composition.

[Dark Schneider]

I have not seen potions of resistance (but poison) at least in 5E, at least as usual item. And if they are part of random magical items you could get as treasure, then you can rely on it as part of tactic.

[solidork]

I once protected against a breath weapon by holding my action to cast Stone Shape to make a little bunker. (On my War Cleric)

[Cerefel]

Wouldn't it be possible to hold your action to cast Wall of Force in response to a breath weapon? The wall should provide cover against the breath weapon. It wouldn't be the most effective use of a spell slot, but it's a thing that should reasonably work

[Malifice]

Dragon scale.


While wearing this armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC, you have advantage on Saving Throws against the Frightful Presence and breath Weapons of Dragons, and you have Resistance to one damage type that is determined by the kind of dragon that provided the scales (see the table).

[Dark Schneider]

Yes I though about holding a wall spell, but that implies a concentration check, so it is something similar to an extra saving throw, the spell concentration check, and if it does not work, the saving throw itself.

When grouped, I can only thing on using the Force Wall to create some kind of shape, based on the panels option, so characters could move and cover so only 1 could be targeted at the same time (the panels I think can also be placed at top to protect against flying).

That's not bad, but eventually I miss some kind of protection itself, something like the mentioned Bless works (that is a protection adding 1d4 to saving throws to the whole group), but concerning the elemental damage itself.

[Corran]

Wouldn't it be possible to hold your action to cast Wall of Force in response to a breath weapon? The wall should provide cover against the breath weapon. It wouldn't be the most effective use of a spell slot, but it's a thing that should reasonably work

Yes I though about holding a wall spell, but that implies a concentration check, so it is something similar to an extra saving throw, the spell concentration check, and if it does not work, the saving throw itself.

When grouped, I can only thing on using the Force Wall to create some kind of shape, based on the panels option, so characters could move and cover so only 1 could be targeted at the same time (the panels I think can also be placed at top to protect against flying).

That's not bad, but eventually I miss some kind of protection itself, something like the mentioned Bless works (that is a protection adding 1d4 to saving throws to the whole group), but concerning the elemental damage itself.
That's actually a really good tactic, assuming the dragon bites the trap and uses its breath from a distance that would allow the wall to provide cover for all of you. Meaning, you enter the dragon's lair all bunched up, so the dragon might see this as you being rookie adventurers and an easy meal (depends on how the DM will have the dragon think really; dragons are smart and more importantly, experienced creatures after all). Then you hope to kill the dragon before it's breath recharges, but it is no small thing if you manage to nullify one dragon breath for everyone with just a 5th level slot (and without using any other resources at all) and with a readied action. Extra points if there is a paladin at the group, cause bunching up to use this trick, means that you are also all immune to the dragon's frightful presence because you are all within 10 feet of the paly.

Edit: Assuming this plays out how you'd want and the dragon uses its breath during the first turn (actually, the ideal scenario for this to play out, would be for the dragon to use its frightful presence during round 1, and its breath during turn 2, so no matter how initiative went, you would have an action during your first turn for you to ready wall of force -or another spell that would provide cover), you still need to beat the dragon's initiative so that you have the spell readied. So anything that boosts initiative would be very critical to the success of this plan. Also, it requires cooperation from the teammates, mainly to stay put and use ranged attacks till the dragon either approaches or uses its breath.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Took on a green dragon last session. Long story short; I'm a warlock with a lousy Con save and a short spell list.

So I'm looking at a 40% chance of saving for half and losing most if my hp in one go, or a 60% chance of just dying.

I cast Blink, and my odds immediately improved to 50% of taking no damage at all.

Oh yeah, and it worked. I was the only party member unscathed. We killed the dragon, too.

[DeadMech]

I've always been disappointed when I'm playing some heroic character that I can't interpose myself in some way to protect an otherwise defenseless person from area attacks like dragon breath.

The old knight in shining armor holding back the blast of fire with his shield as they hold the kidnapped princess (or prince if you prefer)

[Dark Schneider]

I cast Blink, and my odds immediately improved to 50% of taking no damage at all.

Blink is an amazing self-defense spell indeed. But be careful with Phase Spiders :)

[Laserlight]

The best protection against dragon breath is to rage, leap onto the dragon's face, grapple it to clamp its mouth shut, and thereafter headbutt it every turn so you qualify as "attacking" and keep your rage.

[Unoriginal]

I've always been disappointed when I'm playing some heroic character that I can't interpose myself in some way to protect an otherwise defenseless person from area attacks like dragon breath.

The old knight in shining armor holding back the blast of fire with his shield as they hold the kidnapped princess (or prince if you prefer)

Pretty sure you're talking about the Shield Master feat.

[Dark Schneider]

Pretty sure you're talking about the Shield Master feat.
I think protection is a combat style instead a feat. But I should revise it, not sure. Also protection is used for attacks directed against the target, and AoE are not. Shield Master protects you avoiding damage in this case, but not others.

[Sahe]

I've always been disappointed when I'm playing some heroic character that I can't interpose myself in some way to protect an otherwise defenseless person from area attacks like dragon breath.

The old knight in shining armor holding back the blast of fire with his shield as they hold the kidnapped princess (or prince if you prefer)

I think that's totally possible. If the big stupid fighter stands in front of the princess/prince they would generate at the very least half-cover for them (giving +2 to AC and Dex Saves). Depending on situation and how the player fluffs it I would grant Three-Quarters Cover or even Full Cover. If the Fighter has Protection Fighting Style I would most certainly allow them to use their Reaction to Upgrade the cover they provide.

[Dark Schneider]

I think that's totally possible. If the big stupid fighter stands in front of the princess/prince they would generate at the very least half-cover for them (giving +2 to AC and Dex Saves). Depending on situation and how the player fluffs it I would grant Three-Quarters Cover or even Full Cover. If the Fighter has Protection Fighting Style I would most certainly allow them to use their Reaction to Upgrade the cover they provide.
Good point. Indeed, the creatures give half cover.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/02/20/why-three-people-in-front-of-you-in-a-tunnel-only-grants-you-2-to-ac/
For extra cover it should be agreed between player and DM.

It is a good point because the breath does not spread around corners, so targets behind another one get this bonus to DEX saves.

[JackPhoenix]

I've always been disappointed when I'm playing some heroic character that I can't interpose myself in some way to protect an otherwise defenseless person from area attacks like dragon breath.

The old knight in shining armor holding back the blast of fire with his shield as they hold the kidnapped princess (or prince if you prefer)

You can, sort of... if you're the same size or larger, you'll provide cover, giving the one behind you +2 on their Dex save. Doesn't work against green and white dragons, though, their breath uses Con.