So one of my players wants to meet an angel

[Quoxis]

One of my players decided that his monk character, recently getting to level 3 and following the way of shadow, should multiclass into warlock, ooobviously for character development reasons, in no way at all because he wants the devil‘s sight invocation.
I‘m not averse to that and won’t deny him the multiclass, but he wants to make a pact with a celestial being, and furthermore begged to not make it a big thing - i assume he doesn’t want to work for the pact but just get it offered for free.
On one hand i don’t want to let him off the hook that easily, on the other hand he could mc into most other classes just fine without any further story implications...

So my question is: how would you build a brief, non-spotlight-hogging situation in which a celestial being bestows angelic magic onto one of five characters, ideally with little influence on future events and/or the character‘s freedom?
(Note that i‘m not set on giving the player everything he wants, this is mainly for collecting ideas about how to do it, less for discussing whether multiclassing should be allowed, warlocks should sell their soul and be mindless slaves, dealing with angels is only possible for characters of X alignment etc.)

[PhantomSoul]

The easiest way might be a vision during a meditation or a rest, maybe including some fluff about how someone who works in shadows is best-suited for defeating them.

If the character's backstory allows for something like ancestral spirits or a family guardian, then the patron could pop up when the character is in rough shape during a combat as a little deus ex munchkin.

That said, I'd probably get the player to try to propose ideas, particularly with the understanding that the patron might not be irrelevant to future gameplay (even if it actually might be, kind of like how a cleric's god or a paladin's oath could be used if need be). In particular, ask the player what they want the pact to be -- if only to make it seem significant, especially since it's coming out of nowhere without an obvious plot point already.

[terodil]

If you want to have a storytelling element to accompany this development rather than make it a purely mechanical procedure, then I think working on the motivation of the angelic being needs to be key.

Only few patrons would bestow a warlock with special powers just for fun, the ones I can think of now would be either an Old One (because while it might have a very clear motivation, that motivation might simply elude our understanding, so it would seem that way to us) or a demon or trickster fey (because they just want to see what kind of chaos ensues if they gift random people with powers, a little like the Outsider from the Dishonored universe). An angel, however, would not be content with such. At the very least it would expect its warlock to unwittingly, perhaps even unwillingly, further its good-aligned goals, so the story should account for that (maybe the angel has an axe to grind with the BBEG?).

Without that motivation being clear, any situation you place your player in would be formulaic at best, so I'd suggest clarifying where exactly your player wants to go with this roleplaying wise. I mean, the chapter on warlocks in the PHB itself shows how important the pact is (confrontational/collaborative/...). Unless of course you feel inclined to downplay this whole thing (as the player apparently does), in which case it simply doesn't matter what you think up. Just plop an angel down, say something about a prophecy, blah, contract done. I find it baffling though that a warlock player would put so little thought into what forms the heart of the warlock class. I'd really think he'd come to you with more than 'I want to become a warlock with an angel patron, make it so.'

[Quoxis]

That said, I'd probably get the player to try to propose ideas, particularly with the understanding that the patron might not be irrelevant to future gameplay (even if it actually might be, kind of like how a cleric's god or a paladin's oath could be used if need be). In particular, ask the player what they want the pact to be -- if only to make it seem significant, especially since it's coming out of nowhere without an obvious plot point already.

„So there’s this movie with vikings and stuff, and that one character meets a mysterious stranger called the wanderer but who’s implied to be Odin in disguise, who gives him a magic sword for free and without any strings attached, could we do that?“

No. It’s a pact. It’s not „yo i like your face, i‘ll make you an OP magic blaster, do with that power whatever you want“. I thought of kind of a „the angel is a diviner and saw that the character will play a key role in the fate of the world at one point, so he‘ll give them powers to influence that situation in his favor“ thing, but i‘m not perfectly satisfied with that.

[Callak_Remier]

Look up the Dream spell.
A coatl could cast it on both so they could share a conversation. Make sure the PC knows they are a servant of good a shadow in the Darkness. Give them a Goal (recover an artifact for example and an enemy demon (lord grazzt and his minions for example.)

[Quoxis]

If you want to have a storytelling element to accompany this development rather than make it a purely mechanical procedure, then I think working on the motivation of the angelic being needs to be key.

Only few patrons would bestow a warlock with special powers just for fun, the ones I can think of now would be either an Old One (because while it might have a very clear motivation, that motivation might simply elude our understanding, so it would seem that way to us) or a demon or trickster fey (because they just want to see what kind of chaos ensues if they gift random people with powers, a little like the Outsider from the Dishonored universe). An angel, however, would not be content with such. At the very least it would expect its warlock to unwittingly, perhaps even unwillingly, further its good-aligned goals, so the story should account for that (maybe the angel has an axe to grind with the BBEG?).

Without that motivation being clear, any situation you place your player in would be formulaic at best, so I'd suggest clarifying where exactly your player wants to go with this roleplaying wise. I mean, the chapter on warlocks in the PHB itself shows how important the pact is (confrontational/collaborative/...). Unless of course you feel inclined to downplay this whole thing (as the player apparently does), in which case it simply doesn't matter what you think up. Just plop an angel down, say something about a prophecy, blah, contract done. I find it baffling though that a warlock player would put so little thought into what forms the heart of the warlock class. I'd really think he'd come to you with more than 'I want to become a warlock with an angel patron, make it so.'

As i said, it’s most likely just a mechanics thing, all signs point at „i want a few class features, but i don’t like the class“.
Your point of the angel‘s (or other celestial‘s) motivation is exactly what i‘m having problems with. Got any ideas other than „i saw that one day you’ll fight great evil and i want that to turn out in my favor“, because that’s the only thing i can think of currently?

[Quoxis]

Look up the Dream spell.
A coatl could cast it on both so they could share a conversation. Make sure the PC knows they are a servant of good a shadow in the Darkness. Give them a Goal (recover an artifact for example and an enemy demon (lord grazzt and his minions for example.)

That includes an immediate goal, a lengthy quest and a party of 4 other players going to hell and back so that one character can see in the dark and cast some spells. Don’t take this the wrong way, i‘m glad people want to help, but i thought of that too and it’s both too intrusive for my taste and not what the player wants...

[Trustypeaches]

I’d probably make it a bit understated at first. Perhaps the hero begins noticing rays of sunlight piercing through the clouds onto them, or they feel like they’re being watched and it is somehow comfortable, or they’ve begun having extremely pleasant dreams of a paradise realm. Maybe these events follow a chance encounter with a mysterious relic or completing a quest for a local good-aligned church. Basically something to get an angels attention.

From there, the actual encounter between the two can be anything. Manifesting in their dreams, or a voice in the back of their head. Maybe there’s an altar in an ancient ruin that they are instinctively drawn to, where the Deva or Planetary manifests.

Just some ideas

[terodil]

As i said, it’s most likely just a mechanics thing, all signs point at „i want a few class features, but i don’t like the class“.
Your point of the angel‘s (or other celestial‘s) motivation is exactly what i‘m having problems with. Got any ideas other than „i saw that one day you’ll fight great evil and i want that to turn out in my favor“, because that’s the only thing i can think of currently?
To be honest, if that's the case, you have two options:

1. Simply not to care, because the player doesn't, and you want to continue the game without drama: Just don't worry about it. Go the prophecy route and be done with it, because apparently the player does not want 'any strings attached' and any future attempt to engage him will probably end in either player apoplexy or drama ("but I wanted no strings attached!"). Any minute you spend on this trainwreck of a wasted RP opportunity is a lost minute.

2. Still care, while the player still doesn't. You'll put in lots of thought, and you'll have to try to tell the player that he'd better care about why he enters the pact and what this means for his character. I mean there's a chance you can spark his interest and turn him into a roleplayer, but more likely than not it's just a wasted effort. You'd have to stay true to your philosophy and ban him from playing what's effectively a non-pact warlock. Drama ensues. Not good.

I mean you need to decide if you think the player could go beyond 'I want to replicate movie scene X' and if it's worth your effort. From what you wrote, I think he couldn't and it wouldn't be. I'd just let him have his non-pact warlock and focus my storytelling efforts on a good campaign and on those players who appreciate what you're doing. Don't waste one more minute on this disaster.

[dmteeter]

I wouldn't let him take the warlock class and not adhere to any of the rules and guidelines of being a warlock......

If he wants the fancy warlock abilities he has to take a contract like everyone else and it will have story and RP impact

[Quoxis]

I’d probably make it a bit understated at first. Perhaps the hero begins noticing rays of sunlight piercing through the clouds onto them, or they feel like they’re being watched and it is somehow comfortable, or they’ve begun having extremely pleasant dreams of a paradise realm. Maybe these events follow a chance encounter with a mysterious relic or completing a quest for a local good-aligned church. Basically something to get an angels attention.

From there, the actual encounter between the two can be anything. Manifesting in their dreams, or a voice in the back of their head. Maybe there’s an altar in an ancient ruin that they are instinctively drawn to, where the Deva or Planetary manifests.

Just some ideas

Thanks, that's helpful. Especially that first idea sparked my imagination: maybe the "pact" is just formed out of gratitude - the players do something unrelated, find a magical angelic Macguffin item, save it and return it to its temple or something, and then the player gets offered holy powers in return for their good deed.


To be honest, if that's the case, you have two options:

1. Simply not to care, because the player doesn't, and you want to continue the game without drama: Just don't worry about it. Go the prophecy route and be done with it, because apparently the player does not want 'any strings attached' and any future attempt to engage him will probably end in either player apoplexy or drama ("but I wanted no strings attached!"). Any minute you spend on this trainwreck of a wasted RP opportunity is a lost minute.

2. Still care, while the player still doesn't. You'll put in lots of thought, and you'll have to try to tell the player that he'd better care about why he enters the pact and what this means for his character. I mean there's a chance you can spark his interest and turn him into a roleplayer, but more likely than not it's just a wasted effort. You'd have to stay true to your philosophy and ban him from playing what's effectively a non-pact warlock. Drama ensues. Not good.

I mean you need to decide if you think the player could go beyond 'I want to replicate movie scene X' and if it's worth your effort. From what you wrote, I think he couldn't and it wouldn't be. I'd just let him have his non-pact warlock and focus my storytelling efforts on a good campaign and on those players who appreciate what you're doing. Don't waste one more minute on this disaster.

You're probably right, but... meh. I'm stubborn too and i want him to pay at least a little price for their powers. Also, we already have a full-fledged warlock in the group, and having two similar players with similar powers, only that one of them gets them for free while the other must work for them, might become a problem later on when i make requests of the patron a plot hook.

[Quoxis]

I wouldn't let him take the warlock class and not adhere to any of the rules and guidelines of being a warlock......

If he wants the fancy warlock abilities he has to take a contract like everyone else and it will have story and RP impact

That's not answering the question, but thank you for your contribution.

[Unoriginal]

Maybe have a sidequest where the PCs are captured by cultists to be sacrificed , and among the other prisoners there is an Unicorn who can make Pacts.

Personally, though, I would make the PC meet Raxivort. Sure, he's no Celestial, but he canonically do Pacts in exchange for interesting loot, generally magic items.

Plus it'd be funny to have a Way of Shadow Monk negotiate with an entity who is known to be extremely good at escaping, hiding and sneaking around, and Raxivort's desire for payment can be used as a mirror the monk's desire for power.

[Quoxis]

Maybe have a sidequest where the PCs are captured by cultists to be sacrificed , and among the other prisoners there is an Unicorn who can make Pacts.

Personally, though, I would make the PC meet Raxivort. Sure, he's no Celestial, but he canonically do Pacts in exchange for interesting loot, generally magic items.

Plus it'd be funny to have a Way of Shadow Monk negotiate with an entity who is known to be extremely good at escaping, hiding and sneaking around, and Raxivort's desire for payment can be used as a mirror the monk's desire for power.

I never heard of that guy, google tells me he's an ugly god of ugly goblinoids of Greyhawk...? I don't really have the material to do in depth research, but the idea is good - a good aligned deity of trade and trickery would probably have devas and whatnot to hand out pacts for profit, maybe combined with the "pact as quest reward" idea... Hm. I think we're onto something, at the very least it's a promising way i didn't consider before.
I could even play the sadist, give every character a magic item and have him trade his one for the warlock pact he so desires :smallamused:

[Unoriginal]

I never heard of that guy, google tells me he's an ugly god of ugly goblinoids of Greyhawk...? I don't really have the material to do in depth research, but the idea is good

He's described in the Volo's Guide to Monster, in the Xvart entry.

Want me to copy-paste the relevant parts of the lore?

[Quoxis]

He's described in the Volo's Guide to Monster, in the Xvart entry.

Want me to copy-paste the relevant parts of the lore?

If he's in Volo's i can look him up as soon as i get back home, but thanks for the offer!

[Bloodcloud]

Have a strange sealed door in your dungeon. Players being players, they'll open it. Inside the room is some shadow demon lurking, who escapes, taunting the players that he'll torment them for their trouble. Breaking the seal also prompts the appearance of an angelic messenger. He offers the power to see in the shadows to the monk, to better combat the shadow demon. The shadow demon is now a recurring vilain who might show up more or less randomly to torment them until they get him for good.

That feels meaningfull to me without taking too much game time. Little sidequest thing with recurring event.

[terodil]

I'm stubborn too and i want him to pay at least a little price for their powers. Also, we already have a full-fledged warlock in the group, and having two similar players with similar powers, only that one of them gets them for free while the other must work for them, might become a problem later on when i make requests of the patron a plot hook.
I'd be fully behind the position that playing a warlock requires investing into a pact, and that a warlock without a pact is a no-go. There's just one iffy little bit that seems to poke my foot like an odd pebble: Why do you (and possibly your player) call it 'a price' and 'work'? To me it's a huge opportunity and chance to take active part in the weaving of the story, i.e. more of a boon than a price to pay. *shrug*


Personally, though, I would make the PC meet Raxivort. Sure, he's no Celestial, but he canonically do Pacts in exchange for interesting loot, generally magic items. [...]
I really like this idea, so don't get me wrong, but I think that in this case, it'd just be postponing the inevitable drama. The player Quoxis describes strikes me as somebody who is there purely for the combat and does not give one fig about role-playing. He also insists on having 'no strings attached'. If you allow him to make a pact with Raxivort and then later (repeatedly) call the debt due by asking him to relinquish valuable magic items, I foresee that this player is going to post a thread on here 'Help with ****ty GM, makes me give up items although I explicitly asked for a no-strings-attached deal'.

I guess the choice is really one of lesser evils: Do you let him roleplay a warlock without any significant pact (beyond said token encounter with the angel, some handwaving and a sprinkling of holy glowy), do you force him to make an actual pact which will allow him to raise a stink later because it does, of course, have strings attached, or do you ban him from taking warlock altogether if he doesn't come up with some version of a pact that works for everybody. None of these options is ideal.

Edit: In order to avoid the 'do not go to the elves for counsel' cliché, I'll also risk saying what my choice would be: I'd ask the player to choose between a class with a prominent roleplaying component (warlock, in this case, but the same would apply to, e.g., the paladin) and a class with no (or significantly less) such strings attached. That way you're up-front, he takes his pick and can't complain later that you went back on a deal.

[Quoxis]

I'd be fully behind the position that playing a warlock requires investing into a pact, and that a warlock without a pact is a no-go. There's just one iffy little bit that seems to poke my foot like an odd pebble: Why do you (and possibly your player) call it 'a price' and 'work'? To me it's a huge opportunity and chance to take active part in the weaving of the story, i.e. more of a boon than a price to pay. *shrug*

Well, for the player it can be a tool to leave their mark on the world, but for the player character there's mostly something negative or bothersome included - a celestial of any sort i can think of would want something in return, any form of motivation to make the pact, because if they didn't benefit from it, why bother?


I really like this idea, so don't get me wrong, but I think that in this case, it'd just be postponing the inevitable drama. The player Quoxis describes strikes me as somebody who is there purely for the combat and does not give one fig about role-playing. He also insists on having 'no strings attached'. If you allow him to make a pact with Raxivort and then later (repeatedly) call the debt due by asking him to relinquish valuable magic items, I foresee that this player is going to post a thread on here 'Help with ****ty GM, makes me give up items although I explicitly asked for a no-strings-attached deal'.

He does enjoy roleplay, don't get me wrong, but he's really keen on keeping his own weird perception of his character's goals 100% intact, so he doesn't want anyone to have a say in his decisions - if he's the servant of an angel, he has to abide by the angel's demands or at least do good deeds. I told him that unlike a paladin a warlock can't fall and lose their powers (and if you or anyone else doesn't agree consider it a house rule, i don't want to discuss that point here) so he can roast orphans with his eldritch blast for all i care, but still.
Having played older editions and being used to his own style of GMing (basically throwing deadly encounters without any way out but fighting to the death) he's out for every shred of combat advantage he can get his hands on, that's correct.
I also would've just have him bargain once for the pact, potentially more for more levels ("you wanna level up? Offer me something in return or do something i ask of you"), but that's not of much impact on your point: he's going to be dissatisfied with it.


I guess the choice is really one of lesser evils: Do you let him roleplay a warlock without any significant pact (beyond said token encounter with the angel, some handwaving and a sprinkling of holy glowy), do you force him to make an actual pact which will allow him to raise a stink later because it does, of course, have strings attached, or do you ban him from taking warlock altogether if he doesn't come up with some version of a pact that works for everybody. None of these options is ideal.

Especially that last sentence is one of the concepts i want to implement in my campaign. This is probably unintended, but it's more reassuring that i'm on the right way. Maybe he'll get the option to either sacrifice something now or pledge allegiance for a single service in the undetermined future...?

[Unoriginal]

He also insists on having 'no strings attached'. If you allow him to make a pact with Raxivort and then later (repeatedly) call the debt due by asking him to relinquish valuable magic items, I foresee that this player is going to post a thread on here 'Help with ****ty GM, makes me give up items although I explicitly asked for a no-strings-attached deal'.

It wouldn't be a "debt get called due later", let alone repeatedly, it's a " pay now with magic item, you get your spark of power, the deal is done for good".

Now of course the question is: would people have the same reservation if the player wanted a Cleric or Druid or Wizard multiclass?

[Spyderson]

If he's truely just after the devil sight could you possibly offer him a modified goggles of night that can see the through magical darkness instead of him multiclassing?

[Asmotherion]

Books or a Lore check to know of an appropriate Celestial (who shares some ideals with the PC), and further investigation to find a ritual to make contact with it. From there, some basic RP.

Or, make it the other way around: A celestial who approves of the Monks ideals, and has been watching him carefully, entrusts him with power and knowlage during a time of stress or some meditation.

[Quoxis]

If he's truely just after the devil sight could you possibly offer him a homebrew magic item instead of him multiclassing?

I assume it's mainly devil's sight, but he'd also get hex (which is potentially 4d6 extra damage per turn for him), cure wounds, two cantrips, another invocation, a bonus action non-magic healing feature... I asked him about darkvision and am still waiting for reply. Thanks for trying though.

[No brains]

Maybe a couatl could take human form and ask a seemingly inconsequential favor of the monk, who unknowingly enters into a pact.

"Can you please take my staff?" As a symbolic offer to wield their power.

"Are you looking for the road? I can show you my path if you wish to walk it." A thinly diguised offer to become a disciple.

"I'm not a beggar! I'm a celestial in human form! I can give you phenomenal cosmic power! Really!" Couatls can't speak lies.

[Quoxis]

Books or a Lore check to know of an appropriate Celestial (who shares some ideals with the PC), and further investigation to find a ritual to make contact with it. From there, some basic RP.

"So you summoned me... cool, good job, here, have some magic powers for all your effort. Need anything else?"


Or, make it the other way around: A celestial who approves of the Monks ideals, and has been watching him carefully, entrusts him with power and knowlage during a time of stress or some meditation.

They're level 3. It's not like they did anything worth mentioning on a cosmic scale yet. I'm not totally opposed to that, but it's not exactly what i was looking for.
Thanks for the ideas though!

[Quoxis]

Maybe a couatl could take human form and ask a seemingly inconsequential favor of the monk, who unknowingly enters into a pact.

"Can you please take my staff?" As a symbolic offer to wield their power.

"Are you looking for the road? I can show you my path if you wish to walk it." A thinly diguised offer to become a disciple.

"I'm not a beggar! I'm a celestial in human form! I can give you phenomenal cosmic power! Really!" Couatls can't speak lies.

What's in it for the Couatl?

[saucerhead]

It's difficult to imagine a celestial making a deal to bestow the powers of a warlock without the character "getting religion" or agreeing to faith. It makes me wonder if the character would be a bit naïve to make a pact with a powerful entity and have no concerns he is being tricked. I don't think the great old one, the fiend, or even the archfey would have a problem posing as a celestial to make the bargain. They would probably laugh as they claim part of his soul.

If you, as the DM, really want to agree to his request to multiclass into warlock without his character agreeing to be a "do-gooder", say hexblade is his only option.

EDIT:
XGtE-The Celestial:
"Being connected to such power can cause changes in
you r behavior and beliefs. You might find yourself driven
to annihilate the undead, to defeat fiends, and to protect
the innocent."

[Alexwellace]

Shadow monk with a celestial patron. You almost perfectly described the Shadow Hunters from the Mortal Instruments series. Steal a little inspiration from their book and connect the Angelic Patron to the order the Shadow Monk trained with. Say that in ages long past, the Order was set up by an Angel as a way to take action in the Material Realm where the Angel itself had no juristiction. It's a well kept secret only taught to Monks once they reach a certain level within the monestary (lvl 3). Then you can safely ignore it if you want to, since you've connected it to already established background, merely fleshed it out. Or you can make it a plot point later, and any members of that Monks order you run into later in the game are also Celestial Pact Warlocks of varying degrees. All with the exact same eldrich invocations (Devil Sight, and let's say something like Eyes of the Rune Keeper), perhaps Spells are cast by envoking Angelic Runes. The biggest draw to this solution is that since the Angel set up the order, the tennents and aims of the Order = the tennents and aims of the Angel. So theoretically the Monk doesn't even have to change the way he's been acting.

Steal the whole sha-bang and plop it right into your universe. By directly entwining the Warlock portion of the backstory into the backstory he's already invested in (The Shadow Monk) he might be more inclined to take it seriously.

[Keravath]

A couple comments ...

1) A shadow sorcerer gets the same see through darkness bonus for darkness they cast with sorcery points ... they also get 120' darkvision at first level ... so a shadow sorcerer multiclass might fit more thematically than a celestial warlock.

2) All warlocks can get devils sight .. if they have a reason for celestial in particular then maybe that can be tied into a role play reason.

3) In the end D&D is a role playing game :) ... if a player wants a character to follow a certain path for mechanical reasons then I would throw it back to the player to come up with the in character reasons why they want to become a celestial warlock and what they could have done to attract such a patron. Most players have some "vision" for their character and can give some thought to why they would make certain decisions. Why would he be a celestial warlock? Has he done anything particularly good? What is their alignment?

Here are some ideas:
- the celestial thinks of them as a charity case ... maybe they feel that there is some small spark that can be nurtured so the character will become a force for good in the world
- the celestial happens to need a representative to spread some message ... perhaps the character has to speak kindly about their patron in social situations (without letting others know that they are associated with the being) ... very low impact side effect
- the character is descended from a divine source somewhere in their family tree ... as a favour the celestial has been looking out for the family members so when the character starts to try to find a warlock patron .. the celestial answers the call ... the character doesn't even need to know that there might be a connection
- the celestial lost a bet with another celestial and has now been forced to pick one of the worst possible options as a disciple (choice was made by the creature to whom they lost the bet ... make this hopeless monk into a celestial warlock). [Not all the story elements have to revolve around the character ... the celestial can easily have its own reasons even for an apparently sub optimal choice].

On the other hand, I would get the player to contribute before mentioning any of these options ... see why he thinks a celestial might take him on as a warlock ...

Also, depending on your game, any multiclassing choice is ideally better with some foreshadowing in terms of in game activities by the character before they choose this alternate path. It can be in the character background in one form or another or through in game actions/activities or events but the story line goes smoother if there is some reason why the character takes levels in another class.

P.S. You might ask why a warlock is different from any other class ... this is because their power comes from an interaction with a specific being. The warlock character makes some sort of pact or is otherwise closely tied to their patron. This doesn't happen with any other class. Clerics will have a diety ... but the connection isn't as close. A diety probably won't pay much attention to an individual cleric ... other clerics probably handle the introduction of the cleric to the order and the granting of their initial powers. On the other hand, a warlock patron is probably much more personally involved which is why it can feel very different in terms of role play requirements than most other character choices. No other class might have responsibilities to an NPC built directly into the class.

[Quoxis]

1) A shadow sorcerer gets the same see through darkness bonus for darkness they cast with sorcery points ... they also get 120' darkvision at first level ... so a shadow sorcerer multiclass might fit more thematically than a celestial warlock.

Thematically? Yes. Mechanically? Needs at least one more level, can only cast darkness once per day OR by investing all spell slots 5 times per day while the darkvision doesn't work for the monk darkness he could use infinitely, rendering that useless.


2) All warlocks can get devils sight .. if they have a reason for celestial in particular then maybe that can be tied into a role play reason.

As i said, it provides healing. His character also distrusts fiends (for obvious reasons of evil) and fey creatures (for reasons of trickery), so he could at best be a goo- or hexbladelock. Hexblade is suboptimal because his dex is his highest stat, so with a dip he'd only get the curse thing which is a 1/short rest thing, good against bosses, meh against hordes... it could be done, but then again he'd have a different pact, that in turn would require different or similar contracts. Goo can reasonably be done without too many strings attached with the old "your mortal mind is too small and insignificant to get the plan of Cthulhu", but that's basically just a rephrasing of the story idea i had but wasn't satisfied with in the first place.


(snip)
Also, depending on your game, any multiclassing choice is ideally better with some foreshadowing in terms of in game activities by the character before they choose this alternate path. It can be in the character background in one form or another or through in game actions/activities or events but the story line goes smoother if there is some reason why the character takes levels in another class.

Yeah. If the player had told me in advance i would've done that, i'm currently building up for a fighter to mc after level 5, but the monk player just told me last session that he wants his next level to be warlock, so foreshadowing has to happen within two sessions at best.


P.S. You might ask why a warlock is different from any other class ... this is because their power comes from an interaction with a specific being. The warlock character makes some sort of pact or is otherwise closely tied to their patron. This doesn't happen with any other class. Clerics will have a diety ... but the connection isn't as close. A diety probably won't pay much attention to an individual cleric ... other clerics probably handle the introduction of the cleric to the order and the granting of their initial powers. On the other hand, a warlock patron is probably much more personally involved which is why it can feel very different in terms of role play requirements than most other character choices. No other class might have responsibilities to an NPC built directly into the class.

Imo clerics are rather similar if even more restricted in their roleplay, but that's not the point here. I do understand the concept of a warlock, thank you for explaining it though (?)

[Sahe]

I haven't read everything, BUT what the player mainly wants is the Devil's Sight invocation.

He's Level 3 so he'll get an ASI/Feat next level. You could allow him to take the Invocation as a Feat and fluff it as a "special technique of his Monastery" or some such.

[Quoxis]

I haven't read everything, BUT what the player mainly wants is the Devil's Sight invocation.

He's Level 3 so he'll get an ASI/Feat next level. You could allow him to take the Invocation as a Feat and fluff it as a "special technique of his Monastery" or some such.


I assume it's mainly devil's sight, but he'd also get hex (which is potentially 4d6 extra damage per turn for him), cure wounds, two cantrips, another invocation, a bonus action non-magic healing feature... I asked him about darkvision and am still waiting for reply. Thanks for trying though.

Has been answered, but thanks.

[saucerhead]

It's a bit vanilla, but since he has given you a bit of time before he levels up, you could have a brief encounter happen on a recurring basis. Every time he falls asleep he sees, for a second, the celestial watching him. Never when he is awake. If the character drops unconscious or hits zero hit points (before stabilizing) in combat, there is the celestial again just watching. The monk already has the being's attention, he is just cognizant of the presence. If the monk character tries to follow a conduct or preform selfless tasks or whatever he knows there is an unseen witness. When he reaches the experience required he has a dream and is rewarded with the opportunity to change class.

[Callak_Remier]

That includes an immediate goal, a lengthy quest and a party of 4 other players going to hell and back so that one character can see in the dark and cast some spells. Don’t take this the wrong way, i‘m glad people want to help, but i thought of that too and it’s both too intrusive for my taste and not what the player wants...

You wholely misunderstand the impact this should have on your game.
Its background noise mostly.
Its not a direct quest of find X. Its a hey "keep your eyes and ears open."

The selective enemy is there to represent a struggle greater than the character
( something they dont understand, but have been warned about)

All and all nothing that will impact gameplay for several levels

[Callak_Remier]

not what the player wants...

Your player seems like they just want to powergame. Please Remind them this is a Roleplaying Game

[No brains]

What's in it for the Couatl?

Do I gotta think of everything? I'm No brains! It's a miracle I can think at all! :smalltongue:

Mostly I was trying to satisfy your criteria of 'simple' and 'not spotlight-hogging'. An inconsequential trick like this keeps things moving.

Maybe the couatl literally needs someone to take up their staff. It's actually a minor artifact that is prophesied to bring good to the world, but it needs to be wielded by a creature in its true form. The couatl is unwilling to caduceus/ Asclepius it around.

Maybe the couatl wants to guide the monk away from a darker path. It's kinda metagaming, but swearing a pact to a celestial precludes them swearing a pact with an evil force. It's a hostile takeover in the pact market.

Maybe it just wants to mess with somebody's head. A shapeshifter that can't lie would have a hard time pulling off a grift that takes direct speaking and it's looking to challenge itself. Hell, maybe a superior celestial caught the couatl messing around and intends to keep it to its pact sworn under misleading pretenses.

Though you're free to keep why the pact benefits the couatl a secret. Your own plot has more places for relevant hooks than anything I could come up with. Perhaps there's a looming plot hole in your campaign that a floating detail like a dept to a magic snake can fill. Maybe the players get bored with/ mess up a planned quest and you need to think of something on the fly.

Last point, there could be something thematically relevant to a shapeshifitng, unlying creature with truesight giving the power to see the truth to a person who dwells in the shadows. Again, I don't know if this is relevant to your story, but if it helps I'm glad.