Need help Keeping out abuse

[AsheItachi]

Im currently running what I call Quick leveling combat.

The idea is the group goes through a challenging encounter for their level 1-20. They fight the fight then level up after. Rinse repeat. Its straight combat and Im opening the books for them but Im being told that this can be ripe with abuse.

Someone suggested a ban list they use.

Occult Classes
Summoner & Gunslinger (Except for Bolt Ace)
Alchemical Reagents/Focus Components
Druidic Herbalism Nature Bond


Archetypes
Cyclopean Seer (Oracle)
Primalist (Bloodrager)
Protector (Familiar)
School (Familiar)
Tetori (Monk)


Feats
Acadamae Graduate
Barroom Brawler
Bewildering Koan
Fey Foundling
Flumefire Rage
Leadership
Meta-Magic: Dazing Spell
Pageant of the Peacock
Sacred Geometry
Antagonize
Damnation Feats
Story Feats
Achievement Feats


Traits
Campaign Traits
Fate's Favored
Wayang Spellhunter
Magical Lineage
Metamagic Master
Deadeye Bowman
Ancestral Weapon
Heirloom Weapon


Spells
Blood Money
Break, Greater
Deja Vu
Battering Blast
Emergency Force Sphere
Ironskin
Source Severance
Euphoric Tranquility
Genius Avaricious
Alter Summoned Monster
Ally/Army Across Time
Create Demiplane Spells
Create Undead Spells
Planar Ally Spells
Planar Binding Spells
Animate Dead Spells
Simulacrum Spells


Hexes
Ice Tomb
Slumber
Restless Slumber


Items
Amazing Tools of Manufacture
Arrow, Pheromone
Boots of the Earth
Cyclops Helm
Ring of Delayed Doom
Mask of Stony Demeanor
Stagger-Proof Boots
Rod of Absorption
Lavender and Green Ellipsoid
Cracked Dusty Rose Prism
Cracked Pale Green Prism
Dusty Rose Prism

Now im not that good at understanding exploits. But id like to be prepared. Im happy to run these fights and level them quickly to give them a chance to play higher level characters. But I dont want some crazy abused stuff showing up. So im just looking for suggestions on what to do.

[Kurald Galain]

A common ban is the paragon surge spell, and possibly glitterdust. You should probably consider banning some animal companions (in particular any dinosaurs) as well as ways to get too many natural attacks on the same character.

Are you allowing all races or just the core ones?

I'm not sure why you'd ban these particular archetypes, none of them stand out to me as being overpowered. Why would you ban all occult classes? If anything they're weaker than their arcane or divine counterparts.

[AsheItachi]

A common ban is the paragon surge spell, and possibly glitterdust. You should probably consider banning some animal companions (in particular any dinosaurs) as well as ways to get too many natural attacks on the same character.

Are you allowing all races or just the core ones?

I'm not sure why you'd ban these particular archetypes, none of them stand out to me as being overpowered. Why would you ban all occult classes? If anything they're weaker than their arcane or divine counterparts.

This is a friend of mines suggested ban list. I could ask him for you. He did tell me everything on his ban list is something that can be OP or abused.

Im willing to be open to other races or is that something I should not do?

[Faily]

Some things on this list isn't exactly stuff I'd call abuseable or OP.

Solid choices? Yes, and very good ones. But not prone to abuse or breaking a game.


Classes like the Gunslinger for instance can easily be fixed if you find it too powerful by just declaring that firearms shoot against regular AC instead of touch. We implemented that ourselves after the first campaign with Gunslingers in it, and it works just fine now.

Items like Dusty Rose Prism (+1 Insight AC) are hardly abuseable. It's just 1 more AC for a chunk of your money.

[Lotheb]

You might want to ban or limit consumable items (potions, scrolls, wands to a lesser extent) since theres only going to be one fight per level.

[denthor]

Ok here is the thing I have found in playing. If you start them at level 1 and make them train for the crazy prestige classes. Most will not take the down time. They will opt for the quickest solution of how do I play with this character now.

Skill set becomes not what they need for the prestige class but what they need for the next encounter.

Oh yeah they must find a teacher and role play how to get training. Entire party has to be on board to help one player who is not them.

Yes I am evil but I do not DM. Just see what happened over decades.

Start at higher levels they build correctly since they did not have to earn it.

[Geddy2112]

I agree a lot of those bans are not even remotely game breaking or abusable, some are not even good and just okay. Even with this list a lot of classes have utterly insane combos possible.

If you want to mitigate some gear abuse and assist in speed leveling, I would consider automatic bonus progression (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/automatic-bonus-progression/). This way the party gets the bonuses they need without having to constantly drop higher level belts etc, and they get less misc gold or other loot. Plus it is easier since they won't really be shopping.

[DeTess]

Have you considered asking your players not to break the game? Any comprehensive banlist that'll keep out the determined munchkin will also remove a lot of stuff that's fun or even nessecerry for certain non-broken archetypes, while missing even one thing will give the determined munchkin an angle.

[AsheItachi]

Have you considered asking your players not to break the game? Any comprehensive banlist that'll keep out the determined munchkin will also remove a lot of stuff that's fun or even nessecerry for certain non-broken archetypes, while missing even one thing will give the determined munchkin an angle.

Yes we have had conversations And some understand it but this is an experement and I want to get other DMs ideas of things to watch for.
They are on board for being more conservative. But new players might not be.

[AsheItachi]

I agree a lot of those bans are not even remotely game breaking or abusable, some are not even good and just okay. Even with this list a lot of classes have utterly insane combos possible.

If you want to mitigate some gear abuse and assist in speed leveling, I would consider automatic bonus progression (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/automatic-bonus-progression/). This way the party gets the bonuses they need without having to constantly drop higher level belts etc, and they get less misc gold or other loot. Plus it is easier since they won't really be shopping.

I have seen this and thought it was a neat system but dont know how many people would be ok with doing this.
Does this hurt casters or make them better? I thought this would be great for a No magic game.

[Selion]

Im currently running what I call Quick leveling combat.

The idea is the group goes through a challenging encounter for their level 1-20. They fight the fight then level up after. Rinse repeat. Its straight combat and Im opening the books for them but Im being told that this can be ripe with abuse.

Someone suggested a ban list they use.

Occult Classes
Summoner & Gunslinger (Except for Bolt Ace)
Alchemical Reagents/Focus Components
Druidic Herbalism Nature Bond


Archetypes
Cyclopean Seer (Oracle)
Primalist (Bloodrager)
Protector (Familiar)
School (Familiar)
Tetori (Monk)


Feats
Acadamae Graduate
Barroom Brawler
Bewildering Koan
Fey Foundling
Flumefire Rage
Leadership
Meta-Magic: Dazing Spell
Pageant of the Peacock
Sacred Geometry
Antagonize
Damnation Feats
Story Feats
Achievement Feats


Traits
Campaign Traits
Fate's Favored
Wayang Spellhunter
Magical Lineage
Metamagic Master
Deadeye Bowman
Ancestral Weapon
Heirloom Weapon


Spells
Blood Money
Break, Greater
Deja Vu
Battering Blast
Emergency Force Sphere
Ironskin
Source Severance
Euphoric Tranquility
Genius Avaricious
Alter Summoned Monster
Ally/Army Across Time
Create Demiplane Spells
Create Undead Spells
Planar Ally Spells
Planar Binding Spells
Animate Dead Spells
Simulacrum Spells


Hexes
Ice Tomb
Slumber
Restless Slumber


Items
Amazing Tools of Manufacture
Arrow, Pheromone
Boots of the Earth
Cyclops Helm
Ring of Delayed Doom
Mask of Stony Demeanor
Stagger-Proof Boots
Rod of Absorption
Lavender and Green Ellipsoid
Cracked Dusty Rose Prism
Cracked Pale Green Prism
Dusty Rose Prism

Now im not that good at understanding exploits. But id like to be prepared. Im happy to run these fights and level them quickly to give them a chance to play higher level characters. But I dont want some crazy abused stuff showing up. So im just looking for suggestions on what to do.

Keep that ban list, but don't force it on your players. When a player picks an option in your ban list keep simply your eyes open, usually an option alone doesn't break the game, usually it must be combined with other effects.
For example, my character is a magus, i picked magical lineage, which is a powerful trait and happens to be in your ban list. The thing is that usually magus use this trait to combine it with intensified spell and have a 10d6 damage shocking grasp in their 1th level slot (at level 10), i instead use it to apply "disruptive spell", which does little to nothing, but helps me defining an anti-mage magus from level 1, a thing otherwise impossible.
If a player happens to mix things up in a way that according to you breaks the game the way you intended it, just talk to the player and house rule the effect in a way that fits your play-style.