PF - Does PF have a Sigil?

[unseenmage]

Or something analogous to it? Infinite staircase? Plane of Mirrors? Restaurant at the End of the Universe?

Last campaign we went hard into the high tech with Iron Gods and wound up traipsing about the galaxy at high levels.

This time we've sworn off tech but when we eventually get there I'd like for our high level game to still feel that epic shenaniganery and awesome sauce badassery that is doing great big things in foreign places.

So I thought, why not otherplanar instead of other planetary?

Trouble is, I know next to nothing about PF planes. I've read up on their afterlife. And that's about it.

I am very familiar with 3.x planes though. In fact we intend for my current character to be using the mirror and dream travel spells from MotP at later levels.

If it matters, I am a player in this game but the GM is more than welcoming of a thread every now and again helping us out.

[GrayDeath]

If by Pathfinder you mean Golarion, its "own" etting, then no.

Its Cosmos is quite different from Planescapeish D&D.

However, as PF is not just a Setting, but also a semisuccessor system, why not just use the "old" Cosmology?

[Florian]

The Great Beyond (PF) is significantly different from the Great Wheel (D&D) cosmology in some points. Quite a lot of planes, what they represent, their function and their outsider race have changed between "editions". Personally, I do think that this actually is even better than what Planescape and the very watered-down MotP could offer.

Ok, prime sources to read: Planar Adventures, Planes of Power, Plane-Hopper´s Handbook, Distant Realms. Maybe Occult Adventures for some added background.

Now, question is what it actually _is_ that you want to know. Some of the stuff you mentioned rather sound like whether there is a neutral and mundane "Planescape" for Golarion, other stuff rather sound like pure high power and late game options. Doesn't fit.

[unseenmage]

...

Now, question is what it actually _is_ that you want to know. Some of the stuff you mentioned rather sound like whether there is a neutral and mundane "Planescape" for Golarion, other stuff rather sound like pure high power and late game options. Doesn't fit.

Oh we'll add the high powered nonsense and shenaniganery no problem.

I'm more interested in a Sigil-like home base from which to wander the planes and what other, if any, planar metropolises are out there.

Additionally, what other cultures/creaturss, if any, are planeswanderers themselves. 3.x had the Mercane for example. Their neutrality and merchant mindset meant you could always count on there being one in just about any extraplanar city of significance.

So basically I need a tour of the extraplanarly significant.

[Florian]

I'm more interested in a Sigil-like home base from which to wander the planes and what other, if any, planar metropolises are out there. .

That's exactly the thing that is hard to answer with the Great Beyond, because it definitely doesn't conform to the humanocentric view inherent to Planescape, MotP or D&D.

In short, there is no such thing as Sigil, especially not unaligned.

The four Planes of Power each have one metropolis, each conforming to the genie race that rules them, the most famous being the City of Brass.

On the Outer Planes, the whole plane of Axis (LN) is a metropolis, as is the layer of Dis (LE) in Hell. Beyond that, you have Shadow Absalom, the Shadow Plane twin of regular Golarion Absalom, which along Nightmare Paris serves as an example how "real" sites and their planar counterparts exist and interact.

[Long_shanks]

There isn't a planar metropolis baked in Pathfinder (though you could still just use Sigil; that's what we've done in our games). However, there is a third party book that does just that : The City of the Seven Seraphs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?534399-The-Nexus-amp-City-of-Seven-Seraphs-A-planar-metropolis-with-a-new-veilweaving-class&highlight=city+of+the+seven+seraphs) by Lost Spheres Publishing. I backed the kickstarter and the book is supposed to ship soon. So, it'll probably be available for purchase at that point.

[unseenmage]

Hmmm, are there any APs set in planes other than the Prime Material whose primary settlement(s) we could use as a starting point?

[Florian]

Hmmm, are there any APs set in planes other than the Prime Material whose primary settlement(s) we could use as a starting point?

No.

In short, the Outer Planes don't matter. What they are is an reflection of what happens in the Prime, as filtered by the Boneyard, that´s it.

[unseenmage]

So I guess what I need now is reasons/ways for the planes to 'matter' that are different from how outer space mattered to us before.

Hmm, in space we fought the Dominion of the Black and discovered unknown worlds while dabbling in space Dragon politics.

[legomaster00156]

The Astral Plane touches all other planes, and does have native inhabitants.

[Faily]

War For The Crown have a chapter that takes place in Axis, but it's really not a big part of the story or adventure as such.

All in all, I'd suggest just running with Planescape cosmology but with Pathfinder rules if that is what you want, because Golarion doesn't seem to operate similarly.

[unseenmage]

Perusing the PF wiki (and confirming stuff via Nethys) it looks like there's tons of stuff, it's just not prepackaged into a cohesive whole.

Baba Yaga's hut, the Witch Market, the Mercane, and the soul trade all seem to be excellent extraplanar plot seeds/devices.

Axis looks like what I'm looking for, give or take. It's like a lawful Ravnica-Sigil. Though not as alignmentally diverse, obviously.

I'll keep looking. Might make this thread into a list of planescape-like PF elements.


So far the Scrivenites are my favorite. Ribbons that do dagger damage and stolen book-memories. Fun times.

[Florian]

Sorry for the delayed answer. Had to visit a major trade fair.

Ok, a major thing with the Great Beyond is, that it is far less monolithic than the Great Wheel and it´s also not spaced in an equal circle. For example, that means that you'll find Angels in all three upper planes, as well as Archons (LG) as main defenders of the other two Good alignment planes, while Azatas and Agathions tend to be in the support roles.

At the same time, the LN city-plane of Axis is also home to Norgorber (NE) and Milani (CG), because it makes sense for a thief and a rebel to dwell at where their business is.

It makes more sense (at least when compared to the old Wheel), when imagining the cosmology as a three tier affair, with the G alignment planes forming a triangle, with Heaven as the spear tip, the N alignment planes being one functional entity, with Axis as the base, the Boneyard rising above it and the Maelstrom being the sky above. The E planes are also more or less one functional entity, but that's a bit harder to explain in short, has to do with the outsider races being formed by human sins (demons) or fears (daemons) and such.

Imagine it as a hollow ball, with the G planes making up the upper half, the E planes the lower half and the N planes being the interior. (Dimensions are outside of that (like Time), Demiplanes are sprinkled inside of it (like Dreamlands))

Now each plane has at least one major Metropolis as a trading hub with a lot going on, especially traders/visitors from the Prime and other planes (Mercanes, Night Hags, you name it). An interesting one, for example, is the city found in the Maelstrom. It is primarily populated by "fallen" outsiders of any kind, who just want to get a grip on their personal change.

If you want to engage in one of the more fun open plot hooks, suitable for more high level play, go for Nocticula, demon queen of succubi, shadows and assassins, who wants to actually advance to full divinity as goddess of artists, midnight and outcasts, stop being a demon and all that. She's gone missing, but her clerics still get the full package of evil spells and domain powers......

[Pex]

For something officially published you can reference and run modules, no.
If you as DM want there to be, go for it.

[unseenmage]

Thank you for such a thorough response!

The game this is for is on hiatus but I'm still (slowly) chewing on the PF planar stuff.

Will definitely pass this post on to my GM.

[inuyasha]

It's not really the same, but I've read in many places that the Prime location of Kaer Maga in Varisia has been inspired by Sigil. It's ancient, lawless, weird, and you can find all manner of man and beasts walking the streets, including troll mystics who read their own entrails.

[the_david]

Distant Worlds (https://paizo.com/products/btpya1b8?Pathfinder-Campaign-Setting-Distant-Realms) is what you're looking for. It's got info on 6 extraplanar cities.

Ofcourse, you could just use the great wheel cosmology, or make your own.

[Florian]

It's not really the same, but I've read in many places that the Prime location of Kaer Maga in Varisia has been inspired by Sigil. It's ancient, lawless, weird, and you can find all manner of man and beasts walking the streets, including troll mystics who read their own entrails.

Yeah, the City Of Strangers / Asylum Stone is a damn cool adventure location and also the site of one of the best planes-hopping novels I've read so far, The Redemption Engine (Damn good read, along with the prequel, Deaths Heretic)