Battle Casting

[Edenbeast]

I've been searching the internet, but I haven't found many opinions on the Battle Casting feat from Races of the Wild.


You have a knack for staying out of harm's way when casting spells.
Prerequisite: Dex 13, Concentration 5 ranks, Combat Casting.
Benefit: While casting a spell, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to your Armor Class. The bonus lasts until the beginning of your next turn. You cannot make attacks of opportunity while claiming the dodge bonus from this feat.

This feat seems to be interesting for any spell caster looking to increase his/her AC with a dodge bonus (as long as they cast spells fairly consistently). I'm building a wizard character for an upcoming campaign and I find this feat interesting. However, none of the well know wizard guides (Batman wizard, Treantmonk's guide, etc.) seem to mention the feat. I wonder whether it's simply overlooked, or not considered since it requires Combat Casting (which is heavily discouraged by most). Disregarding the requirement of Combat Casting, what is the general consensus on Battle Casting?

[JeenLeen]

I say it's pretty nice if you're caring about AC (and I don't mean that as disparagement towards caring about AC.) That, and a limited number of feats for wizards, at least assuming you multiclass out and aren't getting that bonus feat every 5 levels. Between stuff like metamagic, more effective ways to boost AC (a few let you add Int to AC), and niche feats (great ones for summoning, great ones for necromancy, that one that lets you leave spell slots blank to cast Divination spells from your spellbook), others simply seem better even if this one isn't bad.

And I reckon it's mostly ignored due to requiring Combat Casting.
I can say I'd probably consider this feat for my one epic character. We were pretty high-op, but my character was specialized at buffing the other spellcasters in the party. I forget my exact build, but War Weaver was in there and I think that required Combat Casting. So this would be a nice way to get a touch more AC when I'd gotten the feats I already cared about.

Are there any good ways for wizards to make use of Attacks of Opportunity? I'm wondering how bad that opportunity cost is. (Wait: is 'opportunity cost' the saying? Heh, that worked out as a half-decent pun.)

[Edenbeast]

Yes indeed. I did not mention this in my first post, but consider prestige classes that have Combat Casting as requirement. Take the Abjurant Champion for example, I can imagine a build going into this class could benefit from taking Battle Casting. Warweaver actually does not require Combat Casting btw :smallsmile: but would probably also benefit from this feat.

[Fizban]

Read the same sort of guides written for melee characters and you'll find every single AC boosting option marked in red, for "terrible, do not take ever, not worth your time period end of story." Char-op hates AC on anything, except for a few that find the occasional max AC build amusing. But even then they'll tell you to play a spellcaster for Abjurant Champion instead.

Now, if you found an Abjurant Champion specific guide, it might have a section on "ways to get Combat Casting," and it might even have one for "things you can get since you already have Combat Casting," in which case this feat might be mentioned. A Duskblade guide might also mention it, and might even give it some credit.

[A_S]

This looks like one of the vast array of 3.5 feats that would be decent except that there are so many better ones. Most of my builds have at most, like, 1-2 feats that aren't either PrC prerequisites or absolute requirements for the build's core tricks. Given that I probably only have 1-2 floating feats, am I going to spend them on modest number boosts like a conditional +2 bonus to AC, or on something that provides meaningful new options like metamagic feats or Minor Shapeshift?

[Thurbane]

It would be a massive undertaking, but I think feats should be assigned a point value: say 1 for crappy feats, up to 3 for powerful feats. Then you get a certain number of feat points per level to purchase feats with. It could make less attractive feats more viable to take.

[A_S]

It would be a massive undertaking, but I think feats should be assigned a point value: say 1 for crappy feats, up to 3 for powerful feats. Then you get a certain number of feat points per level to purchase feats with. It could make less attractive feats more viable to take.

An attempt has been made (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?245177-Fixing-SKR-s-Feat-Point-System), though I can't vouch for their quality.

[daremetoidareyo]

Go read the mobile spellcasting feat in complete adventurer and tell me that that isn't a way better feat.

[Darrin]

Shape Soulmeld: Wormtail Belt gives you a +2 natural armor bonus for a single feat. Prereqs are easier, and it works all the time without any restrictions or limitations. So if you're just looking for a better AC bonus than Dodge, you can start with that one.

[Fizban]

am I going to spend them on modest number boosts like a conditional +2 bonus to AC, or on something that provides meaningful new options like metamagic feats or Minor Shapeshift?
More AC= less worrying about being hit. More time in melee, fewer resources spent healing. Sufficient AC gives you license to stand wherever you want without fear of getting annihilated by attacks. That's a pretty meaningful new option. At least for non-magical feats, since magical feats just get a pass to do whatever they want all the time out of nowhere. Really the main discrepancy here is that it's a non-magical feat, an AC booster, that can only be taken by casters.

There is definitely a range where this feat is useful, but it's not at 1st, and it's not at high levels where caster AC is low, and it's not in any op level where AC is being tanked. That leaves a fairly short range of probably 6-10ish? if you're not a "gish" of some sort. Pretty good for Clerics actually if they don't want something else, since they get the full armor and shield without jumping through any other hoops they don't need much more to push them into sufficiently hard to hit territory.

One thing to note is that the text of the spell doesn't actually work, or is at least gibberish. It clearly means to give you the bonus for one turn triggered whenever you cast a spell, but what it says is while casting a spell, which clearly means it should only apply while you are taking a casting action. Which can last until the start of your next turn for 1 round casting time spells, but otherwise you stop casting before the end of this turn, your turn ends, and you are no longer being attacked while casting a spell. RotW's feats are kinda all over the place.


Shape Soulmeld: Wormtail Belt gives you a +2 natural armor bonus for a single feat. Prereqs are easier, and it works all the time without any restrictions or limitations. So if you're just looking for a better AC bonus than Dodge, you can start with that one.
That's an enhancement bonus to natural armor, which doesn't stack with other spells or items that use the same bonus, or scale unless you invest considerably more.

[Blackhawk748]

The feat is fine for what it is. If you're taking Combat Casting and have a feat floating about, and care about AC, then its fine. Also, in E6, its pretty solid but you have way more feats in that format so that really changes things.

Its fine for what it does (as Dodge bonuses are good) but i wouldnt go out of my way to take it.

[weckar]

Only time I could ever see taking this is if I have effectively infinite spells to cast, such as in a nosomatic warlock build. It'd be a good bit better if if scaled with spell level used.

[Edenbeast]

One thing to note is that the text of the spell doesn't actually work, or is at least gibberish. It clearly means to give you the bonus for one turn triggered whenever you cast a spell, but what it says is while casting a spell, which clearly means it should only apply while you are taking a casting action. Which can last until the start of your next turn for 1 round casting time spells, but otherwise you stop casting before the end of this turn, your turn ends, and you are no longer being attacked while casting a spell. RotW's feats are kinda all over the place.

I think the text is pretty clear though: "The bonus lasts until the beginning of your next turn." It's basically the same as fighting defensively where you take a -4 on all your attacks one round in exchange for a +2 dodge bonus.


That's an enhancement bonus to natural armor, which doesn't stack with other spells or items that use the same bonus, or scale unless you invest considerably more.

It's a dodge bonus, not enhancement, so it stacks with everything.

[Faily]

It's not a terrible feat. Honestly, sometimes Optimization guides focus a bit too much on the "110% tactical decisions"-aspect, and less on what people like. You do you.

I've had Battle Casting on a Duskblade/Abjurant Champion (GM allowed Extra Spell feat to train spells outside of your normal list, so I could have Shield), and I enjoyed it.

Also put it on a Wizard/Warblade/Jade Phoenix Mage build that I labelled Spell-tank, because I had pretty silly high AC and decent amount of HP.

Is it *the* most best use of a Feat? Maybe not, but it's possible to have fun with it. Think less about what is considered Blue or Gold-rating on Optimization Guides and see if it's something you'll have fun with.

[Zaq]

If it cost one feat instead of having a garbage prereq, I'd call it situational but acceptable if you're both relying on AC for defense and happen to have enough spell slots that you're casting almost every round.

As written, it's hard to think of a character who has the feat space for it unless you're actively de-optimizing. As stated, it's got some prereq overlap and thematic overlap with Abjurant Champion, but most of the Abjurant Champion builds I've seen have been sufficiently feat-starved that a conditional +2 AC isn't usually high on the feat priority list.

[Fizban]

It's a dodge bonus, not enhancement, so it stacks with everything.
You've got caught up in responding to the quote field which does not copy quotes from the quoted post. I was talking about the Wormtail Belt. (In the last part of the post under the quote about the Wormtail Belt, not the main part of the post which is about the Battle Casting feat).

[Edenbeast]

You've got caught up in responding to the quote field which does not copy quotes from the quoted post. I was talking about the Wormtail Belt. (In the last part of the post under the quote about the Wormtail Belt, not the main part of the post which is about the Battle Casting feat).


Ah yes, I'm sorry about that!