Plot ideas needed: dealing with a crime lord, starting a cult

[Greywander]

My sister and I have been playing a game together where we're both players as well as co-DMs, using a virtual DM to assist us. We've each acted as the "primary" DM for a story arc and then switched off for the next arc. We just finished a story arc with my sister as the primary DM, so I'm back in the DM's chair, and I'm not really sure what direction to take the story in. We've sort of been doing a wide-open sandbox style of game, so "story" isn't necessarily too important, but we still need something to do.

Here's where we're at now:

A local crime lord is pressuring us to burn down a store on his turf used by a rival crime lord as a front for their activities. No murder, just a bit of arson. He's offering a reward, but has also implied that there will be consequences if we don't carry out the act.

Before we could get that done, however, we encountered a friendly NPC who was not only an ex-member of the thieves' guild operating that store, but the daughter of the former guild boss. One arranged duel later with a lot of cheating in our favor, and she's now the boss of the thieves' guild in question.

We skipped town for a bit, fought a gnoll warband, recovered a legendary artifact, and returned as heroes, dragging a gnoll pack lord and a bunch of gnoll paws through town on Tenser's Floating Disk to see if we could get a reward from the duke who runs the city. Instead of gold, the duke offered us property (to use, not to own) and a stipend if we agreed to help protect the town. OOC and after the fact, my sister said this was because the duke hadn't been making "protection" payments to a group of pirates, and wanted us to fight them off. We refused, so they then offered use of the property without a stipend and no duties to the town, which we accepted. The duke's secretary/bodyguard is also a crime lord, by the way (but not the rival mentioned above), and controls the docks (and therefore, the shipping).

The first crime lord called us in to once again pressure us to carry out the job. He's also indicated that he has more work for us that may involved killing children. We're LN and NG, so that's a no-go.

My sister helped flesh out the criminal underground of the town a bit. There are four crime lord who each control part of the town. There are also many criminal organizations that either work for the crime lords or at least operate under their jurisdiction when on their turf. The thieves' guild run by the friendly NPC is not a major player, and although they do operate the store in question, it's actually as part of the business of one of the other crime lords (the rival crime lord mentioned previously). The crime lord pressuring us to burn down the store has a number of children who would likely succeed him if assassinated, who are all generally worse than he is.

Our endgame is to control the town. In the short term, we have to get this crime lord off of our back. I figure we've got about 3 in-game days before he realizes we don't intend to burn down the store. Burning down the store might buy us some time, but it might also piss off the other crime lord, and it will only delay the inevitable. It might be necessary to engage in some criminal politics and try to ally ourselves with one or more of the other crime lords. I'm also considering the possibility of trying to seize this crime lord's turf for ourselves (I do have Mask of Many Faces, so I can look like him). Another option I've thought of would be, instead of assassinating the crime lord, is to destabilize his organization by attacking it at the bottom rather than the top. These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

There's an additional angle to consider as well. In the first session of the campaign, my sister made up a BS goddess as part of a series of bluff checks to fool some suspicious NPCs. And IC we both still think she just made it all up, but OOC we've decided that the goddess in question is real and has chosen us to help rebuild her cult and get revenge on her enemies. So yeah, starting an actual cult and bringing in worshipers could be another angle to pursue our goal to control the city. ...I wonder if we shouldn't be using a different system than D&D 5e?

I feel like there's a lot of interesting hooks that could be pursued, I'm just blanking on ideas for how specifically to proceed. This is both as a DM and as a player. If we didn't have the deadline to carry out the crime lord's task looming over us, we'd have a bit more freedom to decide what to do next, but he's kind of forcing us to address that question and figure out how we're going to deal with him.

I mean, we could always feign incompetence. Start a small fire, only for it to be found and extinguished before it does significant damage. Multiple times. And act like we're doing our best. Hey, we might be mighty gnoll slayers now, but it's not like the store is made of gnolls.

[Unoriginal]

Point out that wanting famous people to do your criminal grunt work is not a good idea. You're the talk if the town, and you're certainly watched by everyone who has half a brain and some interest in said town.

You want anonymous people to carry out grunt work. Not Adam West at the time everyone with a TV could see him play Batman.

[lunaticfringe]

Point out that wanting famous people to do your criminal grunt work is not a good idea. You're the talk if the town, and you're certainly watched by everyone who has half a brain and some interest in said town.

You want anonymous people to carry out grunt work. Not Adam West at the time everyone with a TV could see him play Batman.

Pretty much this. I would imply that you have the ear of the Duke and access to a Rival Crimeboss (his LT?). There is potential profit in your situation if you don't **** it up doing **** work. Offer up a bit of gold to soothe ruffled feathers if need be.

[KorvinStarmast]

neat challenges ... 1. Point number 1 of the city: with all of those crime lords running various wards of the city, the underground economy is eating hard into the city's tax base. Your city's lord is in debt, and can't seem to get revenue to flow into the city coffers. I think there's a taxation hike in the city's future.

2. When killing a hydra, you can't cut off just one head.

You mentioned that if you kill this crime lord who is pressuring you, he'll be succeeded by offspring who are as bad if not worse. So, you have to take all of them out. That's your plan. You need to set up at least two meetings, one with the crime lord and one offspring, and another with the other offspring, and spring traps on them.

3. Alliances with other crime lords to pull this off is advised. They aren't the ones pressuring you. With that family taken down, or put on the run, the power vacuum will be there for the other crime syndicates to try and fill.

4. As they compete for the new territory, you the heroes have a chance to either be "the peacemakers" who set up a neutral area for the crime families to meet, and you help work out a deal (status and rep), or, you play one group off against the other to reduce the power of their syndicates in the city.

Not sure what PCs you have to do this with, but there is also the deal with using disguise and illusion to get those three crime synicates to get after each other's throats.

The Big Risk: one of the crime lords prevails, and becomes so influential that he or she may be in a position to take over the city ...

Anyway, sounds like you all are having a great time. Have fun with this.

[Rebel4ever85]

Ever seen a fist full of dollars? Its a western with Clint Eastwood where two gangs control a town and terrorise the locals so Clint Eastwood's character plays them off each other ultimately running them all both into the ground. So how could you do something like this. Instigating a war could be a lot of fun!

Lets also assume that the authorities know about the gangs activities but been bribed or threatened and just turn a blind eye. You could make some sort of scandal that involves the nobles that forces the corrupt authorities to move against them to save their own hides.

[Greywander]

Point out that wanting famous people to do your criminal grunt work is not a good idea.
These are good points, and IIRC one of the reasons for getting us to do the job in the first place was that we were new in town and nobody knew our faces. Becoming a minor celebrity probably changes the equation a bit. However, I don't see why he wouldn't just tell us to hire the job out to someone else if we didn't want to do it ourselves.


I would imply that you have the ear of the Duke and access to a Rival Crimeboss (his LT?).
This would have worked better had we accepted the Duke's offer to protect the city. That said, we could still imply we're doing secret work for the Duke or his secretary and that he'd better not mess with us or the Duke will crack down on him.


1. Point number 1 of the city: with all of those crime lords running various wards of the city, the underground economy is eating hard into the city's tax base. Your city's lord is in debt, and can't seem to get revenue to flow into the city coffers. I think there's a taxation hike in the city's future.
Not sure if this is supposed to be a statement of fact, or a "wink wink nudge nudge". It's a wealthy port town, as well as a haven for pirates, smugglers, and other illicit operations. The Duke is implied to be in on all this, using his authority to maintain enough order for a functional society while also profiting off of the crime that's going on (presumably by proxy through his secretary). Not paying the pirates is probably not a matter of not being able to afford it, but more some sort of disagreement between them.

These may need to be details I work out with my sister, though. A lot of this campaign has been a collaborative effort.


2. When killing a hydra, you can't cut off just one head.
This is one option. Also, we could just keep wacking them until someone we like steps up as the new crime lord.


3. Alliances with other crime lords to pull this off is advised.
Another option was to try and make our friendly thieves' guild boss the new crime lord, either by taking over his organization, or by driving them out and taking over his turf. It may be possible to get the assistance of the other crime lords, but that will likely depend on what they're like. We may need to do some cleaning in this town.


Not sure what PCs you have to do this with
Thanks to the magic of gestalt, we have a double portion of class levels to work with. We're 4th level, and I'm an Illusionist wizard 4 / rogue 1 / Knowledge cleric 1 / GOO warlock 2, she's a Glamour bard 4 / Shadow sorcerer 1 / Celestial warlock (chain) 3. Next level, I'll also be going Pact of the Chain, so we'll both have invisible flying familiars.

Also relevant, we're both playing as a homebrew undead race I've been testing out. She's a discount vampire i.e. still has flesh and is harmed by running water. I'm a skeleton, resistant to piercing damage but vulnerable to bludgeoning. Normally we auto-stabilize when drop to 0 HP, but fire or acid, massive damage, or radiant damage can all kill us (among other things). Running water does acid damage to her (we both have Shape Water just in case), and a long enough fall could do enough damage to me to end me instantly.

I'm also testing out a homebrew wild magic system that gives me unlimited spellcasting, but spells can fail, and wild magic surges range from minor inconvenience to "roll a new character". I've been pretty happy with it so far, it seems to offer the right amount of risk versus reward, but we'll see how it scales into the mid and high levels. I've had spells fail at critical moments, and I've gotten surge effects ranging from making rainbows flow out of my mouth or making an alien burst out of someone's chest (no permanent damage), to permanently increasing my CHA by 1 and completely destroying my right arm. Unfortunately, my sister gave me a Regenerate spell almost right away instead of making me earn it. Sigh, there could have been an interesting quest there.


Anyway, sounds like you all are having a great time. Have fun with this.
Thanks! It's certainly taken some unexpected turns, which only makes it more interesting. For instance, I was actually the one DMing when I had the crime lord ask us to burn down the shop. At the time, I'd planned for that thieves' guild to be bad guys, and for the crime lord to become our patron. I got back at my sister by killing off a cultist of Yeenoghu that she expected me to capture and "reform" (she didn't tell me this until after I'd already stabbed him three times and thrown his body into a brazier). Then my dice got back at me by failing most of my Stealth checks immediately after that incident, and I barely got out of there unalive and with a whole gnoll warband chasing after me. Failing Stealth checks has become kind of a running gag in our game.


Ever seen a fist full of dollars?
I haven't, but maybe I'll see if I can watch it before the next time we play. My concern with instigating a war is that we'd like the city to be more or less in one piece when we take it over. Also, having an underground already in place that we can exert some control over is better than getting rid of the existing underground and having a new one form that you have no control over.


Lets also assume that the authorities know about the gangs activities but been bribed or threatened and just turn a blind eye. You could make some sort of scandal that involves the nobles that forces the corrupt authorities to move against them to save their own hides.
There might be something here. I assume the Duke at least keeps up the appearance of maintaining law and order in town, and the average citizen isn't aware of all the black market underground deals going on. Then again, in a town like this I'd expect a thriving gray market, technically legal, but everyone knows there's shady things going on behind it. They just don't care because they like having a gray market. Hmm, I think I may ask my sister to do some world building and help me lay down some of the details of the town that so far haven't been important.

[MThurston]

So you are opposed to protecting the town but want to control it?

Sorry for making wholes in your writing.

1. Four crime bosses and a thieves guild.

I would think that each Crime Lord would have its own guild.

It also would be dangerous for separate thieves guild to work in an area they do not belong.

If I am a Crime Boss, I'm not letting the thieves guild operate in my area.

2. The leader of the thieves guild is not going to work for a Crime Boss. They have way to many things to do. But having a spy in each Crime Boss location would work.

3. You will need to figure out things for this town.

A. Do the other CB pay to use the dock?
B. If there is a separate thieves guild, how do they operate under the radar or do the CB's hire them out.
C. Are the CBs known to the public or hidden? You may have a mix.
D. How much does the Mayor, Duke or whoever know about the CB's.
E. Are guards paid off? Are they making it hard for one of the CB?

Now the big thing is people. A group of 5 people just don't drop 4 Crime Bosses and take the city for themselves. There are informants, thugs, protection, thieves, assassins, money launderers, fronts and more that help these CB's.

Just stepping in doesn't make them want to work for you. They may keep doing what they were before without sharing a cut.

Also if the group is of good alignment then taking over a Crime Business would not be a good thing. Taking it down may make it better or worse.

My two cents.

[Greywander]

So you are opposed to protecting the town but want to control it?
I'm opposed to being someone else's lapdog and getting duped into fixing their problems while they profit off of it, especially as a "reward" for saving the city (or the surrounding villages, rather) from a group of dangerous monsters. We'll protect the city as we're able, but it will be on our terms, not the Duke's.

That said, the Duke doesn't seem like a bad guy (what we've seen so far, at least), so we might still want him to run the city for us once we've gained control. But, he will work for us, not the other way around.


Sorry for making wholes in your writing.
"Holes", and it's quite alright. I suspect you may have only skimmed what I wrote, and I wouldn't blame you; I can be quite verbose.


1. Four crime bosses and a thieves guild.
[...]
If I am a Crime Boss, I'm not letting the thieves guild operate in my area.
The crime lords operate more as a "government" for the criminal underground: they have their own operations but they also have other crime syndicates operating independently within their territory. These independent syndicates presumably give the local crime lord a cut of their profits, and have to follow certain rules set by the crime lord. If they cause trouble, the crime lord will crush them and let others take over their operations. The crime lords also hire these independent crime syndicates to carry out operations for them, sometimes because they don't want to be directly involved, and sometimes because the independent syndicates are actually really good at doing the thing they're being hired for.

If a crime lord were to lose power, and an independent syndicate were to gain power, it's conceivable that the independent syndicate could replace the crime lord's organization as the "ruler" of that territory.

This will likely need to be hammered out in more detail with my sister.


2. The leader of the thieves guild is not going to work for a Crime Boss.
They will if there's something to be gained by it. Local game stores make deals with WotC to sell MtG cards, that's not really too different.


3. You will need to figure out things for this town.

A. Do the other CB pay to use the dock?
B. If there is a separate thieves guild, how do they operate under the radar or do the CB's hire them out.
C. Are the CBs known to the public or hidden? You may have a mix.
D. How much does the Mayor, Duke or whoever know about the CB's.
E. Are guards paid off? Are they making it hard for one of the CB?
These are all great questions, and I'll see if my sister and I can figure these out over the next session.


Now the big thing is people. A group of 5 people just don't drop 4 Crime Bosses and take the city for themselves.
True, I expect this to require multiple story arcs to take full control of the town. Thwarting this one particular crime lord might be one arc, taking him out might take a couple arcs. Taking out or allying with the remaining crime lords will likely cover several more arcs, and things will likely get more difficult for us as things progress and the crime lords start seeing us as a potential threat.

We're 4th level now; it would probably be about right to have gained control of the town around or after 11th level, which is a long way off.


Also if the group is of good alignment then taking over a Crime Business would not be a good thing.
Crime is debatably not a matter of Good or Evil, but of Law and Chaos. Even then, I expect a Lawful society to simply have a well-ordered organized criminal underground instead of an anarchic criminal free-for-all. And I'm Lawful Neutral anyway.

They'll exist regardless, and by controlling them we'll be able to moderate the amount of bad stuff they do. They'll also make fantastic spy networks to keep us informed.

[Unoriginal]

These are good points, and IIRC one of the reasons for getting us to do the job in the first place was that we were new in town and nobody knew our faces. Becoming a minor celebrity probably changes the equation a bit. However, I don't see why he wouldn't just tell us to hire the job out to someone else if we didn't want to do it ourselves.

Why is he so intent on having YOU be involved in that arson?

He gains nothing from it.

[Greywander]

Why is he so intent on having YOU be involved in that arson?

He gains nothing from it.
Early on, my sister (a bard with the Entertainer background) was performing in a tavern to earn some gold. I thought I gave out too much gold, so I came up with the idea that one of the lackeys of the crime lord in question had been at the performance and given a large portion of the gold earned. The problem is that the gold wasn't his, and was meant for some other operation for his boss. The lackey screwed up (let's assume he was very drunk or something), and since we were the recipients of that gold, he feels entitled to a favor from us. Even if we give back the gold, it won't fix the operation that the lackey screwed up by losing the gold, as that operation has already expired.

TL;DR, drunk lackey gave us gold, screwed up op for his boss. Since the op is ruined anyway, the boss does not want the gold back. Instead, he wants a favor from us to make up for his lackey's failure.

I still have no idea if I've been giving out too much or too little gold. For 4th level, I feel like we're actually really lacking in gold; I can't even afford to copy spells into my spellbook.