How do you limit scrolls?

[gogogome]

It's a known problem that PCs with UMD who just spend 100% of their wealth on 9th level scrolls will break the game either because they make more money per encounter than they spend or the scrolls result in some form of powerful minionmancy.

So generally how do you guys limit scrolls? The DMG Demographics does not help at all because scrolls are dirt cheap and create lantern archons is a thing.

In a metagaming sense, what level scrolls do you allow compared to what the PCs can cast by themselves? Is it equal level as in a 7th level wizard cannot buy a scroll of 5th level or higher spells? Do you allow 1 or 2 spell levels higher?

In an in-game sense do you say scrolls of higher levels is not for sale because too few spellcasters of that level exist in the setting?

[Crake]

In general, I don't allow scroll purchasing in my games at all by default. If the player joins some sort of mage's guild, he will have access to scrolls based on how far up the heirarchy he has managed to climb, though even then, it becomes limited at the higher echelons, as mages aren't willing to just casually trade away their major research investments for a handful of gold. Don't want to join a mage's guild and deal with the hassle and responsibility? Fine, you're on your own then.

Generally, if players want scrolls in my games, they have to make the scrolls themselves. Don't have the spell? Bind something that does, or suck it up.

[Beckett]

Im not really sure how this is a "well known problem" or that it breaks the game? I mean they are paying for weaker versions of what Clerics and Wizards can just do.

But honestly, scrolls of 4th level or higher should be very uncommon. Not impossible to find, but not something you just stroll into a store and buy, much less buy 10 of them.

[Awakeninfinity]

Scrolls require caster level checks equal to the (caster level of the scroll )+1 ; I found that limits me personally to maybe a spell Level Higher than I currently have; tops. But I'll assume that they boost their effective caster level out of the ballpark and would suggest limiting access to those.

Addendum: Also you need higher level spellcasters to be able to cast those spells as well; so if they aren't nearby, neither are the scrolls.

[heavyfuel]

Pretty much all of my games run on the following basis:

Spells of 3rd level or lower are somewhat common, this means that you can buy spellcasting services and scrolls with relative ease.

Spells of 4th to 6th level are not common. Spellcasting services for these spells require a specialized caster, who's likely to ask for favors rather than gold in exchange for scrolls or spellcasting services.

Spells of 7th+ level are very rare. These people are extremely unlikely to use their most potent spells for spellcasting services (as this would leave them vulnerable) and scrolls of these levels pretty much require some major quest.

Of course all of this applies to the most common spell lists. Less common lists have similar restrictions based on the ECL of the caster

[Selion]

It's a known problem that PCs with UMD who just spend 100% of their wealth on 9th level scrolls will break the game either because they make more money per encounter than they spend or the scrolls result in some form of powerful minionmancy.

So generally how do you guys limit scrolls? The DMG Demographics does not help at all because scrolls are dirt cheap and create lantern archons is a thing.

In a metagaming sense, what level scrolls do you allow compared to what the PCs can cast by themselves? Is it equal level as in a 7th level wizard cannot buy a scroll of 5th level or higher spells? Do you allow 1 or 2 spell levels higher?

In an in-game sense do you say scrolls of higher levels is not for sale because too few spellcasters of that level exist in the setting?

It's simple, if there is a 9th level scroll around someone must have scribed it. How many wizard there are in the reign able to do it? One? Two? Do they even know that spell?
Magic items should be extremely uncommon starting from CL 12, they should be commissioned or researched. This thing may be skipped for the sake of simplicity, assuming the humongous wealth of a middle level character can find a way, but more powerful items should not be found easily.

[Telonius]

It generally hasn't been a problem for me; "PCs with UMD" does not equal "can successfully UMD a 9th-level scroll." Assuming this is a mundane character (or somebody trying to use a scroll that's otherwise not on their spell list), UMD'ing a scroll is 20+the scroll's caster level (which is 17 for a 9th-level Scroll) to treat it as though it's on your class list. So for a ninth-level spell, they've got to reliably be able to hit a DC 37. After that you've got to hit a DC 34 check to emulate the casting stat (assuming you don't have a 19 in whatever it is). If you roll a 1 and fail for either of those checks, the scroll can't be UMD'd again for 24 hours.

If it's somebody who happens to have the spell on their list, it's a (generally-easier) Caster Level check with a DC of 18 for a 9th-level scroll, but that's not a sure thing.

If you can't make those checks, you've wasted your money. The UMD check in particular is pretty nasty. The only way I can think of for a low-level character to come anywhere close to making it regularly is with a casting of Guidance of the Avatar (which I ban from my games).

[Florian]

My go-to setting use the tried-and-true "after the apocalypse" setup: Once there was something akin to the Tippyverse, a major conflict escalated and more or less wiped out that highly magical civilization. Centuries later, most races and civilizations are starting to crawl back out of a dark age into something more akin to the renaissance. Thing is, that magic as a science is lost. Right now it´s basically arcane in the truest sense of the word. While there exist such things like wizard academies and such, what they teach is individual spells and how to research stuff, not "magic" itself (think universities before we established things like scientific method).

So basically, the quickest and most efficient way to gain some knowledge is by risking it and plunder fallen/lost cities, old war and research instalations/bunkers, old battlefields and such.

There basically ain´t no magic items shops, but there's a brisk barter-based trade going on. People are generally willing to trade a surplus item for something that is new to them and of more or less equal value. So, they are willing to trade a 9th level scroll against an equal 9th level scroll, so on.

[J-H]

It has not been an issue in my games. I do include a "If you do something cheesy, so will enemies" rule though. If you make a spiked-chain tripper, expect to see enemy spiked-chain trippers.

That would extend to scrolls as well. If someone started to abuse this, an encounter soon might feature a wizard packing a scroll of Disjunction.

[Crake]

It generally hasn't been a problem for me; "PCs with UMD" does not equal "can successfully UMD a 9th-level scroll." Assuming this is a mundane character (or somebody trying to use a scroll that's otherwise not on their spell list), UMD'ing a scroll is 20+the scroll's caster level (which is 17 for a 9th-level Scroll) to treat it as though it's on your class list. So for a ninth-level spell, they've got to reliably be able to hit a DC 37. After that you've got to hit a DC 34 check to emulate the casting stat (assuming you don't have a 19 in whatever it is). If you roll a 1 and fail for either of those checks, the scroll can't be UMD'd again for 24 hours.

If it's somebody who happens to have the spell on their list, it's a (generally-easier) Caster Level check with a DC of 18 for a 9th-level scroll, but that's not a sure thing.

If you can't make those checks, you've wasted your money. The UMD check in particular is pretty nasty. The only way I can think of for a low-level character to come anywhere close to making it regularly is with a casting of Guidance of the Avatar (which I ban from my games).

It's not people with UMD that are the problem. It's the wizard casting above his punching weight. Sure, if you're an 8th level rogue trying hit 37 on UMD, you might have a rough time, but if you're an 8th level wizard with a single feat (Arcane mastery) you can 100% of the time beat that scroll's caster level check of 1+CL (18) on a take 10+8CL. And for an 8th level character, a 9th level scroll is still EASILY affordable, without some kind of mitigating circumstances. A scroll of shapechange at level 8 will trivialize many encounters at that level, and easily afford you the ability to buy another 9th level scroll.

But honestly, even if you're UMDing it, if you UMD it before the start of the dungeon, you don't need to hit 37 reliably, you just need to be able to hit 37 at all. Most rogues I know have at least 1 decent mental stat, either intelligence for more skill points or charisma for good social skills. A single casting of a +4 stat spell from the party's spellcaster will likely be enough to make the casting stat UMD check unnecessary, and so even if you only have +17 in UMD (11 ranks, 4 from at least 19 cha, 2 masterwork tool) you have a 50/50 chance of casting that scroll of shapechange before you roll a 1.

Casting the scrolls isn't an issue, if you want to get it cast, you'll figure out a way easily enough, so the only real way to stop it from becoming a problem is to limit the availability.

[ericgrau]

It's a known problem that PCs with UMD who just spend 100% of their wealth on 9th level scrolls will break the game either because they make more money per encounter than they spend or the scrolls result in some form of powerful minionmancy.

So generally how do you guys limit scrolls? The DMG Demographics does not help at all because scrolls are dirt cheap and create lantern archons is a thing.

In a metagaming sense, what level scrolls do you allow compared to what the PCs can cast by themselves? Is it equal level as in a 7th level wizard cannot buy a scroll of 5th level or higher spells? Do you allow 1 or 2 spell levels higher?

In an in-game sense do you say scrolls of higher levels is not for sale because too few spellcasters of that level exist in the setting?

The DMG says starting characters can't have more than 25% of their starting wealth in expendable items, including scrolls. After character creation you ban 9th level loop tricks and then 9th level scrolls are generally not worth frequent use at 3,825 gp. That's also above the PHB's 3,000 gp "hard to find" limit. So the PC can't just pick them up willy nilly. They usually need to find a high level caster, probably one of the most important people in the world, when he isn't busy and pay him to spend 4 days scribing the scroll. Very rarely will he already have the correct scroll lying around.

[King of Nowhere]

there are many better ways to break the game. If the players want to spend all their loot to buy scrolls, fine by me. they will end up underequipped at higher levels, and by then a scroll won't help much.

Also, what's said for rarity and for npcs being able to do the same still applies

[ericgrau]

there are many better ways to break the game. If the players want to spend all their loot to buy scrolls, fine by me. they will end up underequipped at higher levels, and by then a scroll won't help much.
Not really. This is a misconception. You'll actually burn more money for the value on obsolete permanent items that you sell than expendables like scrolls. Or even before selling, even if the item is upgradeable, money is sunk into them that can't be spent on other things that may be much better. And long term the lower level money will be chump change. Once you do reach higher level, it will be again a superior idea to get a lot of your gear as expendables. Often they give more bang for the buck. The misconception comes from thinking long term you're just throwing money away. Where actually it's more like cycling through smartphones every couple years and there's almost zero long term value to permanent items. Except it's this times 10 for PCs. They are rapidly going from fliphones to smartphones to tricorders, so longevity is pointless. Power is way more important. And also players won't actually spend 100% of their money on expendables, because not everything useful can be gotten that way.

Back to the scroll of shapechange example. First take the usual steps to stop polymorph cheese which will make this a problem long before 9th level spells. Don't allow splatbook monster forms that are stronger than MMI forms. Make sure the player stats out shapechange forms before game to avoid bogging the game down. So now what you have is a buff that's still pretty good for 3,825 gp. You can afford to do this semi-often around maybe level 10-11. Great for big challenges to prevent spending 5,000+ gp on rezzes. More regularly by level 14+, though by then you're already getting close to having 9th level spells anyway. And again permanent items aren't necessarily any better value, often they're worse, for reasons above. So the scrolls become a nice item to use in an emergency and they help a great deal, but they aren't utterly game breaking. Plus you need to hunt down an NPC who is available for a few days to scribe your very limited supply. Which the PC roleplays out, etc., etc. So it's a fair strat and as a DM you simply allow it. Likewise you can and should pick up other items like dust of disapperance for 3,500 gp to win difficult semi-high level fights. That's just as good as a non-cheesed shapechange, if not better. These are all fair strats that keep 3.5 interesting and the DM should allow them to happen frequently. Just watch out for normal cheese not directly related to scrolls like polymorph tricks and you're good to go.

[Crake]

Likewise you can and should pick up other items like dust of disapperance for 3,500 gp to win difficult semi-high level fights. That's just as good as a non-cheesed shapechange, if not better. These are all fair strats that keep 3.5 interesting and the DM should allow them to happen frequently. Just watch out for normal cheese not directly related to scrolls like polymorph tricks and you're good to go.

Except dust of disappearance only lasts for a few rounds, wheras shapechange lasts for 170 minutes, almost 3 hours of adventuring. Taking the right forms, that's almost enough to clear out a whole adventure's dungeon. Even if you limit to MM1 forms, you have things like hydra for both healing and strong combat, chokers to double up on spells cast per round, various forms for easy flight, you could take vampire spawn form for easy access to dominate (not a template, thus a viable choice, and the save DC is tied to HD + cha mod, and thus scales with you) and negative level spamming, pixie form for greater invisibility for the whole dungeon, rakshasa form for nigh unbeatable spell resistance and quite strong damage reduction, rust monster and oozes for utility involving breaking through barriers, various troll forms for becoming practically unkillable except for specific damaging abilities, nightmare form for astral projection (which you can use on the outset to duplicate a second scroll, and just keep chaining shapechange scrolls that way).

That was all while keeping within the 8HD limits of an 8th level character. You can do ALL of those things, so you basically just become a walking "solve the encounter" toolbox. You don't just solve one encounter, like the dust of disappearance does. You solve all the encounters.

[OgresAreCute]

Except dust of disappearance only lasts for a few rounds, wheras shapechange lasts for 170 minutes, almost 3 hours of adventuring. Taking the right forms, that's almost enough to clear out a whole adventure's dungeon. Even if you limit to MM1 forms, you have things like hydra for both healing and strong combat, chokers to double up on spells cast per round, various forms for easy flight, you could take vampire spawn form for easy access to dominate (not a template, thus a viable choice, and the save DC is tied to HD + cha mod, and thus scales with you) and negative level spamming, pixie form for greater invisibility for the whole dungeon, rakshasa form for nigh unbeatable spell resistance and quite strong damage reduction, rust monster and oozes for utility involving breaking through barriers, various troll forms for becoming practically unkillable except for specific damaging abilities, nightmare form for astral projection (which you can use on the outset to duplicate a second scroll, and just keep chaining shapechange scrolls that way).

That was all while keeping within the 8HD limits of an 8th level character. You can do ALL of those things, so you basically just become a walking "solve the encounter" toolbox. You don't just solve one encounter, like the dust of disappearance does. You solve all the encounters.

Dust of Disappearance: "The toolbox will decide your fate."

Shapechange Scroll: "I am the toolbox."

[ericgrau]

Except dust of disappearance only lasts for a few rounds, wheras shapechange lasts for 170 minutes, almost 3 hours of adventuring. Taking the right forms, that's almost enough to clear out a whole adventure's dungeon. Even if you limit to MM1 forms, you have things like hydra for both healing and strong combat, chokers to double up on spells cast per round, various forms for easy flight, you could take vampire spawn form for easy access to dominate (not a template, thus a viable choice, and the save DC is tied to HD + cha mod, and thus scales with you) and negative level spamming, pixie form for greater invisibility for the whole dungeon, rakshasa form for nigh unbeatable spell resistance and quite strong damage reduction, rust monster and oozes for utility involving breaking through barriers, various troll forms for becoming practically unkillable except for specific damaging abilities, nightmare form for astral projection (which you can use on the outset to duplicate a second scroll, and just keep chaining shapechange scrolls that way).

That was all while keeping within the 8HD limits of an 8th level character. You can do ALL of those things, so you basically just become a walking "solve the encounter" toolbox. You don't just solve one encounter, like the dust of disappearance does. You solve all the encounters.

Hydras have low attack bonus so they suffer from flurry of misses. They're just decent, not overwhelming. And you can already get them without shapechange. Dominate person only hits persons and the save DC is eh. Etc., etc. At high level, and most of the time at any level really, it's uncommon to have more than 1 encounter a day. Forcing more than 1 is usually a huge drawback that may outweigh the scroll. And dust of disappearance hits the whole party. You'll usually get more defense, utility and opportunities to attack (plus some bonuses to attacking) this way, and even true seeing doesn't bust it. Shapechange is still nice and will help a lot, but it won't auto-win the dungeon.

Realistically the shapechange scrolls will start to become worth the cost around level 10-11+, often later. By then they'll be handy but they'll get less and less special. Flight is already becoming easy to get, higher level spells are becoming available, etc. And you already have 100 low level scrolls, 100 cheap trinkets, spells, high level class features, etc. to solve all the encounters. Not auto-win, but neither does shapechange. It just helps a lot. The shapechange scroll is handy but there are plenty of other handy things too.

[AnimeTheCat]

Here's how I limit scrolls, custom magic items, standard magic items, and all magical things in general in my games:

I build cities
I build the character population of those cities
I write down spell lists thematic to the magical characters I built.
I write out feats for those characters.
If the characters cant make the item I do a percentile check modified by distance and the number of trade towns between it and the nearest town capable of producing the desired item.
If it cant be made and wasnt traded to the town, it's not available.

[gogogome]

Shapechange and Hunters of Hades as Crake pointed out lasts almost 3 hours a day and can curb stomp most encounters.
Polymorph Any Object, we all know the cast twice to make permanent trick and both fighters and wizards benefit immensely from this. A trick my players haven't done yet but popped out on the forums recently is using this to replicate Stone to Flesh to turn colossal great wyrm statues into corpses for Skeletal Dragons. I have a player that is religiously following one forum member's build threads so I expect him to try this soon.
Custom made Simulacrum or Ice Assassin with a scroll of True Creation for the creature's hair or nail or something results in some really powerful albeit fragile minions.

That's just from the top of my head. I'm sure there's a lot of other high level spells UMD or lower level spellcasters can use to get really strong

[Nifft]

It's a known problem that PCs with UMD who just spend 100% of their wealth on 9th level scrolls will break the game either because they make more money per encounter than they spend or the scrolls result in some form of powerful minionmancy.

I've only seen this breaking one-shot games, not regular games with regular WBL and many encounters over long stretches of play.

[King of Nowhere]

Here's how I limit scrolls, custom magic items, standard magic items, and all magical things in general in my games:

I build cities
I build the character population of those cities
I write down spell lists thematic to the magical characters I built.
I write out feats for those characters.
If the characters cant make the item I do a percentile check modified by distance and the number of trade towns between it and the nearest town capable of producing the desired item.
If it cant be made and wasnt traded to the town, it's not available.

This... Seems a LOT of work to do for all the setting.
I have a general idea of what is available where, but nowhere near that kind of detail

[AnimeTheCat]

This... Seems a LOT of work to do for all the setting.
I have a general idea of what is available where, but nowhere near that kind of detail

I've broken down the city creation aspects via some minor scripting that automates the rolls from the DMG, then I've made so many characters over the years I'm rarely creating them from scratch, usually only pulling something I already have and making minor edits to feats, skills, or spells. It took me a couple years of hard-ish work (its relaxing and I do it in my off time for stress relief) and now easy.

I am working on compiling what I've made with core only resources so that an entire continent can be populated and calculated simultaneously then templates applied and changed by the user as needed, but this is a long-term project.

[BWR]

This 'known problem' that 'breaks the game' is like just about every other 'game breaking 'fact'' about common elements in D&D: not a problem at my tables.
Yes, it could conceivably be a problem in games with limited duration and has been restricted in one such game but in general this isn't a thing.
We usually do play with some general limitations on magic items occur, based on where in the setting you are. If you're out in a tiny village hundreds of kilometers from any larger city, you'll be lucky to find a couple of 1st level scrolls. If you are in the capital city of the super high-powered magic empire, then pretty much everything is available.
For places in between these two extremes I generally roll a percentile die to see if any given scroll is available. Sometimes they are immediately available, sometimes you have to wait while they are created/imported from elsewhere, possibly at an increased price.

[Darth Ultron]

In an in-game sense do you say scrolls of higher levels is not for sale because too few spellcasters of that level exist in the setting?

Yes.

Also, few spellcasters sit around and make scrolls to sell. As you say, they don't make much money. And a high level spell caster can make money lots of ways other then selling scrolls.

[Crake]

Hydras have low attack bonus so they suffer from flurry of misses. They're just decent, not overwhelming. And you can already get them without shapechange. Dominate person only hits persons and the save DC is eh. Etc., etc. At high level, and most of the time at any level really, it's uncommon to have more than 1 encounter a day. Forcing more than 1 is usually a huge drawback that may outweigh the scroll. And dust of disappearance hits the whole party. You'll usually get more defense, utility and opportunities to attack (plus some bonuses to attacking) this way, and even true seeing doesn't bust it. Shapechange is still nice and will help a lot, but it won't auto-win the dungeon.

Realistically the shapechange scrolls will start to become worth the cost around level 10-11+, often later. By then they'll be handy but they'll get less and less special. Flight is already becoming easy to get, higher level spells are becoming available, etc. And you already have 100 low level scrolls, 100 cheap trinkets, spells, high level class features, etc. to solve all the encounters. Not auto-win, but neither does shapechange. It just helps a lot. The shapechange scroll is handy but there are plenty of other handy things too.

I don't know what games you play in, but when we go into a dungeon, we typically clear are far as we can go, because, you know, going in, killing one thing, then leaving puts the whole place on high alert, and the next time you go in, you're pulling the whole dungeon at once.

Also, the hydra form's attacks are secondary to it's MASSIVE fast healing, something you DON'T get access to via polymorph. Being able to go from near death to practically full in 3-4 rounds is pretty nice. Dust of disappearance is nice sure, and it can MAYBE solve 1 encounter, unless they have glitterdust, faerie fire, blindsense, blindsight, tremorsense, mindsight, have some capability to stall the fight for 2-12 rounds, and I'm sure there are plenty of other counters that I haven't thought of off the top of my head. On the other hand, if someone counters your shapechange form, you just change into something else. Even dispelling it is incredibly difficult. At level 8, the CL check to dispel would require you to literally roll a natural 20. Which, okay, could be very saddening on that 5% chance, but then just get some way to make your spells harder to dispel. If you can boost it by even 4 points (ring of enduring arcana?) then it becomes imposisble to dispel by regular dispel magic without some kind of dispel check booster.

[Aetis]

Im not really sure how this is a "well known problem" or that it breaks the game? I mean they are paying for weaker versions of what Clerics and Wizards can just do.

But honestly, scrolls of 4th level or higher should be very uncommon. Not impossible to find, but not something you just stroll into a store and buy, much less buy 10 of them.

This. It doesn't make sense that bunch of 9th level scrolls would be randomly available in a small town in the outskirts.

[tiercel]

“Welcome to Honest Akbar’s Honest Spell Honest Emporium...”

“Did he actually say ‘honest’ three times?”

“...where we are happy to sell you your very own completely genuine nuclear weapon scroll of the 9th level...”

”Wait, what?”

“...spell of your choice...”

“What was that about ‘nuclear?’”

“Not to worry! All of Honest Akbar’s completely genuine scrolls are 142% guaranteed...”

”I’m sure you said something about ‘nuclear weapon’ — wait, 142?!”

“AMNESIA DUST!!!”

[RoboEmperor]

This. It doesn't make sense that bunch of 9th level scrolls would be randomly available in a small town in the outskirts.

They are available in small cities and they are common because they are cheap. The reason something is cheap is because it's easy to acquire. If it was so rare it wouldn't be so cheap. So if any item of 3,825gp or higher is available in a market 9th level spells are available too. Simple economics.

[Crake]

They are available in small cities and they are common because they are cheap. The reason something is cheap is because it's easy to acquire. If it was so rare it wouldn't be so cheap. So if any item of 3,825gp or higher is available in a market 9th level spells are available too. Simple economics.

They're cheap because of standardized pricing mechanics.

[RoboEmperor]

They're cheap because of standardized pricing mechanics.

I know this falls under "d&d is not a good model of an economy", but just saying, in a non-meta sense, there's a reason why scrolls are cheap in-universe. And in-universe does not use reasons like standardized pricing mechanics.

[Crake]

I know this falls under "d&d is not a good model of an economy", but just saying, in a non-meta sense, there's a reason why scrolls are cheap in-universe. And in-universe does not use reasons like standardized pricing mechanics.

Well, except it does: The standarized pricing mechanic determines how much it costs to make, and assumes that you sell it for double that price. The DMG does also cover the idea of marking up prices for rarity. 3825gp is the base price, in a world where 9th level scrolls are common, that's what it would sell for, in settings where they're more rare, then they'd not only be harder to come across, they'd have a markup.

[RoboEmperor]

Well, except it does: The standarized pricing mechanic determines how much it costs to make, and assumes that you sell it for double that price. The DMG does also cover the idea of marking up prices for rarity. 3825gp is the base price, in a world where 9th level scrolls are common, that's what it would sell for, in settings where they're more rare, then they'd not only be harder to come across, they'd have a markup.

If the DMG says you can raise the price then you can raise the price but you gotta make their rarity based on their price and not by the fact that they're 9th level scrolls. So if you want it to be available only in a metropolis you'd have to increase the price to 90,000gp instead of saying it's 3,825gp and only available in metropolises. But it would still only cost half that to scribe it yourself.

[Crake]

If the DMG says you can raise the price then you can raise the price but you gotta make their rarity based on their price and not by the fact that they're 9th level scrolls. So if you want it to be available only in a metropolis you'd have to increase the price to 90,000gp instead of saying it's 3,825gp and only available in metropolises. But it would still only cost half that to scribe it yourself.

Yes, i'm in agreement with you on that matter, the price should reflect the rarity and where it can be purchased., though personally I also use different price thresholds for my city sizes, so it wouldn't need to be that high in my setting.

That said, rarity can also depend on location. Perhaps it's rare elsewhere, but in this particular metropolis it's not so rare and thus can be purchased on the (relatively) cheap.

[King of Nowhere]

maybe it's cheap because it's not particularly expensive to make and there aren't many buyers anyway? I mean, sure, there aren't many 17th level wizards, but there also aren't many adventuring groups buying those scrolls. But if demand outpaces availability (as would happen if all mid level groups started to use 9th level scrolls regularly), then I expect a significant markup

[bean illus]

... got to reliably be able to hit a DC 37. ...

If it's somebody who happens to have the spell on their list, it's a (generally-easier) Caster Level check with a DC of 18 for a 9th-level scroll,

The only way I can think of for a low-level character to come anywhere close to making it regularly is with a casting of Guidance of the Avatar (which I ban from my games).

I'm not sure what you call low, but a Cha+UMD focused factotum can hit those numbers easy at 8th level pretty simply.

In fact, i might get a 1st level facto to hit an 18.
ranks, Cha, skill focus, nymphs kiss, masterwork, eagles splendor potion, Cunning Knowledge

+4 + 4 +2 +2 +2 +2 +1 =17
A first level facto can cast a wizard 9th scroll every time he doesn't roll a 1.
At 2nd skill synergies kick in and he hits 23

[Telonius]

I'm not sure what you call low, but a Cha+UMD focused factotum can hit those numbers easy at 8th level pretty simply.

In fact, i might get a 1st level facto to hit an 18.
ranks, Cha, skill focus, nymphs kiss, masterwork, eagles splendor potion, Cunning Knowledge

+4 + 4 +2 +2 +2 +2 +1 =17
A first level facto can cast a wizard 9th scroll every time he doesn't roll a 1.
At 2nd skill synergies kick in and he hits 23

The DC 18 caster level check is only possible if the character has the spell on the class list to begin with. Factotum doesn't have a spell list; what he gets from Arcane Dilettante are spell-like abilities, not spells. Even if they were spells, the bonuses you've figured are bonuses to UMD checks; they don't apply to the caster level checks.

As it is, he's got +17 to his UMD check. If he rolls a 2, that's a UMD result of 19 - very much below the 37 he needs. He's only succeeding if he rolls a 20. Since you can't take 20 on a UMD check, it's 50/50 whether he rolls a 1 before he gets that 20.