Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica is out! AMA

[jaappleton]

So, here's some quick details that jumped out at me:

-Centaurs are FEY, not Humanoid

-Order Domain got an overall buff, but the capstone got nerfed to only affect the next attack. At lv6, Enchantment spells can be cast as a Bonus Action. Channel Divinity no longer prones, but any spell (regardless of school) that targets an ally can cause that ally to use a reaction to make a weapon attack. Divine Strike now deals Psychic, not Force.

-Spores got nerfed. Hard. IMO not even worth looking at. Still poison based (BOO!), and they lose their form if they lose the Temp HP bonus.

-Guild Spells: Each Guild has spells associated with it that are added to your classes spell list. This... could be huge. Need to really go over it.

-Each Guild also offers at background

[BobZan]

Out where??? Wasn't november, 20?


-Order Domain got an overall buff, but the capstone got nerfed to only affect the next attack. At lv6, Enchantment spells can be cast as a Bonus Action. Channel Divinity no longer prones, but any spell (regardless of school) that targets an ally can cause that ally to use a reaction to make a weapon attack. Divine Strike now deals Psychic, not Force.

Bonus Action Enchantment? Oh boy! Cleric 6, Bard x for infinite dissonant whispers.

[jaappleton]

MAGIC ITEMS!

-Illusionists bracers are outright BROKEN. Very Rare, attunement by a spellcaster. Cast a cantrip? Do it again as a bonus action. HELLO WARLOCKS!

-Sunforger is a Warhammer that can be thrown once per short rest, dealing 6d6 fire or half on a save, once per short / long rest

(More to come, work wifi is acting up)

[jaappleton]

Out where??? Wasn't november, 20?



Bonus Action Enchantment? Oh boy! Cleric 6, Bard x for infinite dissonant whispers.

Out of D&D Beyond.

Yeah, Order no longer recharges spell slots but overall I think its a buff to the Domain as a whole. Really like it.

[Asensur]

Guild alignments if they have.

[Millstone85]

What about "Classes by Guild"?

[BobZan]

Out of D&D Beyond.

Yeah, Order no longer recharges spell slots but overall I think its a buff to the Domain as a whole. Really like it.

D&D Beyond is down for me =/

Yeah, bonus action is great for action economy!

[jaappleton]

D&D Beyond is down for me =/

Yeah, bonus action is great for action economy!

Down for me as well. Turns out it wasn't my work WiFi tweaking out, but Beyond.

I'll answer as many questions as I can as soon as the site pops back up.

[Mikal]

Brutes. What did they do to them. Still useful?

[BobZan]

Brutes. What did they do to them. Still useful?

Afaik brutes didn't make it to release.

[jaappleton]

Brutes. What did they do to them. Still useful?

The Fighter Archetype? That's gone. Trashed. Mearls confirmed that a long time ago.

If you're referencing something else, let me know.

The ONLY class archetypes are Order Domain and Spores Druid.

[Mikal]

The Fighter Archetype? That's gone. Trashed. Mearls confirmed that a long time ago.

If you're referencing something else, let me know.

The ONLY class archetypes are Order Domain and Spores Druid.

I...I missed that.

*Darth Vader* NOOOOOOOOOOO.....

[stoutstien]

So order domain channel divinity is just an one round charm now?

[jaappleton]

So order domain channel divinity is just an one round charm now?

"As an action, you present your holy symbol, and each creature of your choice that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be charmed by you until the end of your next turn or until the charmed creature takes any damage. You can also cause any of the charmed creatures to drop what they are holding when they fail the saving throw."

[the_brazenburn]

Bestiary details, please!

Do we get a Shambleshark?

[jaappleton]

What about "Classes by Guild"?

It provides a breakdown about what each class and archetype would likely belong to what Guild.

Most Barbarians are Gruul, though Zealots would be Boros or Rakdos.

If you want specifics on one or two classes or archetypes I'd be happy to provide that, but for some classes, each Archetype belongs to a different Guild. So Bards and Clerics are all over the darn place, for example, and that's just a lot to type. :smalltongue:

[Mana Opal]

I...I missed that.

*Darth Vader* NOOOOOOOOOOO.....

Pretty much my reaction to finding out that the School of Invention was trashed in a nutshell. Granted, the decision was probably made before the Guildmaster's Guide was properly revealed and thus based primarily on feedback from people who didn't recognize it as an Izzet-themed piece until after the fact (if at all), but it still stung...

I'm personally curious about what they did to mechanically fluff the Simic (aside from the new race, anyway). There's not really a whole lot out there that fits them by default (especially once you consider that they've become more Druidy than Wizardy after the merfolk took over were integrated into the Combine. Maybe they'd let Polymorph do weird mix-and-match type things as a standin for Rapid Hybridization (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=366388) or something? Turning folks into Frog Lizards or millipedes with hellion cells (for speed, of course!) would be kinda neat.

[stoutstien]

"As an action, you present your holy symbol, and each creature of your choice that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be charmed by you until the end of your next turn or until the charmed creature takes any damage. You can also cause any of the charmed creatures to drop what they are holding when they fail the saving throw."
Trade mass prone for mass disarm. I guess if they are holding Shields it's a good thing

[jaappleton]

Guild alignments if they have.

I'll try!

Each Guild has the following suggestions:

Alignment
Class(es)
Race(s)

For example, here's Dimir:

Alignment: Usually neutral, sometimes evil

Suggested Races: Half-elf, human

Suggested Classes: Monk, rogue, wizard

(Like the previous answer I posted, that's a lot to cover. So if you're looking for a specific one or two, happy to provide it, but I can't transcribe the whole thing. Sorry!)

[Asensur]

What about "Classes by Guild"?

Got spoiled this by a friend. There are subclasses by guild (but not all of them).

[BobZan]

What about the new races? 5 new ones? Could you share a lil bit of that with us?

[Millstone85]

Suggested Classes: Monk, rogue, wizard
Got spoiled this by a friend. There are subclasses by guild (but not all of them).So, there are suggested classes, and sometimes suggested subclasses?

[jaappleton]

What about the new races? 5 new ones? Could you share a lil bit of that with us?

Sure thing!

Humans: See PHB
Elves: See PHB. Only mentions the PHB ones, no mention of Eladrin. Figure that's due to the PHB+1 Restriction.
Goblins: Same as Volo's

Centaur: Fey, Medium, 40ft movement, +2 Str, +1 Wis, Fey (Not Humanoid!)
Charge. If you move at least 30 feet straight toward a target and then hit it with a melee weapon attack on the same turn, you can immediately follow that attack with a bonus action, making one attack against the target with your hooves.

Hooves. Your hooves are natural melee weapons, which you can use to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with them, you deal bludgeoning damage equal to 1d4 + your Strength modifier, instead of the bludgeoning damage normal for an unarmed strike.

Equine Build. You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push or drag.

In addition, any climb that requires hands and feet is especially difficult for you because of your equine legs. When you make such a climb, each foot of movement costs you 4 extra feet, instead of the normal 1 extra foot.

Survivor. You have proficiency in one of the following skills of your choice: Animal Handling, Medicine, Nature, or Survival.



Loxodon: Seem slightly different from the UA.
Loxodon Serenity. You have advantage on saving throws against being charmed or frightened.

Natural Armor. You have thick, leathery skin. When you aren’t wearing armor, your AC is 12 + your Constitution modifier. You can use your natural armor to determine your AC if the armor you wear would leave you with a lower AC. A shield’s benefits apply as normal while you use your natural armor.

Trunk. You can grasp things with your trunk, and you can use it as a snorkel. It has a reach of 5 feet, and it can lift a number of pounds equal to five times your Strength score. You can use it to do the following simple tasks: lift, drop, hold, push, or pull an object or a creature; open or close a door or a container; grapple someone; or make an unarmed strike. Your DM might allow other simple tasks to be added to that list of options.

Your trunk can’t wield weapons or shields or do anything that requires manual precision, such as using tools or magic items or performing the somatic components of a spell.

Keen Smell. Thanks to your sensitive trunk, you have advantage on Wisdom (Perception), Wisdom (Survival), and Intelligence (Investigation) checks that involve smell.

Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and Loxodon.
Powerful Build, +2 Con and +1 Wis



(More in a bit)

[jaappleton]

So, there are suggested classes, and sometimes suggested subclasses?

Yes indeed, that is correct.

There's quite a lot on character creation.

And now, MOAR RACES

---

Minotaur seem pretty much the same as what I remember from the UA.

Horns. Your horns are natural melee weapons, which you can use to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with them, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier, instead of the bludgeoning damage normal for an unarmed strike.

Goring Rush. Immediately after you use the Dash action on your turn and move at least 20 feet, you can make one melee attack with your horns as a bonus action.

Hammering Horns. Immediately after you hit a creature with a melee attack as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to attempt to shove that target with your horns. The target must be no more than one size larger than you and within 5 feet of you. Unless it succeeds on a Strength saving throw against a DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier, you push it up to 10 feet away from you.

Imposing Presence. You have proficiency in one of the following skills of your choice: Intimidation or Persuasion.

Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and Minotaur.

+2 Str, +1 Con


-----

Simic Hybrids seem EXACTLY the same except this one ability you can choose at lv5

Acid Spit. As an action, you can spray acid from glands in your mouth, targeting one creature or object you can see within 30 feet of you. The target takes 2d10 acid damage unless it succeeds on a Dexterity saving throw against a DC equal to 8 + your Constitution modifier + your proficiency bonus. This damage increases by 1d10 when you reach 11th level (3d10) and 17th level (4d10). You can use this trait a number of times equal to your Consitution modifier (minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.

[Millstone85]

Yes indeed, that is correct.

There's quite a lot on character creation.Thanks! And well, that's a good thing.

[staylost]

Centaur Thief Rogue Grapplers!

Large, strong, expertise, can carry the character you are grappling 30 ft. (in whatever direction you are holding them) for a featless bonus attack!

Plus doesn't Thief totally overwrite the Centaur negative?

All you need is a friend to cast enlarge on you.

Edit: Lox and Mino look interesting in this role too! Grappler races for everyone!

[jaappleton]

Bestiary details, please!

Do we get a Shambleshark?

Uhhhh.... Two answers.

1. Yes
2. Kinda

They're lumped in as 'Krasis', with three categories. Medium, Large, or Huge. And they're all somewhat purposely vague, generic fusions of different animals. You can pick from a list of suggested adaptations that further augment them and add different attacks and abilities.

So Shambleshark is listed as an possible creation, but doesn't have its own unique stat block, but you are given the tools to make it.

[jaappleton]

There are NO NEW BEASTS.

Sorry, Polymorphers and Wild Shapers.

[Mana Opal]

>Simic Hybrid's almost exactly the same

Well, can't say this was too surprising, but geez. Most of the feedback I've seen revolved around the idea of giving these guys a few more options (be they general, or based off of the character's original race; I've even seen a few folks suggest an ooze-like option ala Experiment One (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=405219)), and we clearly didn't get that. Hardly a surprise, given how suspiciously close to the book's release date that particular UA was (I did see a number of people comment on that at the time as well), but it's still disappointing to see.

At least the non-Guardian Krasis seem to have gotten something akin to the focus they deserved. Frog Lizards are go!

[Unoriginal]

Could you tell us if they say anything about the links between the M:tG setting and the D&D one?

What are some of the NPCs?

[jaappleton]

More on Guild Spells

Here's where things get dicey as far as balance goes, it seems.

You get a bonus list of spells added to your spell list. Each Guild grants access to different spells. And they're added to your class regardless of your spellcasting stat. This works as long as you have Spellcasting OR Pact Magic, so Warlocks do apply.

So if you're a Sorcerer, the spells of your Guild are all now Sorcerer spells and you can cast them with Charisma.

I'm going through the lists now.

There's 10 Guilds, so 10 spell lists. So these are ways to further augment the spells available to you. For example, a Tempest Cleric gets the bonus Tempest spells auto-prepared, right? Now if you're also a member of the Gruul Guild, their guild spells are considered Cleric spells now, and are added to the Cleric list (But are NOT auto-prepared).

And away... we... go.

Azorius
Cantrip friends, message
1st command, ensnaring strike
2nd arcane lock, calm emotions, hold person
3rd clairvoyance, counterspell
4th compulsion, divination
5th dominate person


Boros
Cantrip fire bolt, sacred flame
1st guiding bolt, heroism
2nd aid, scorching ray
3rd beacon of hope, blinding smite
4th death ward, wall of fire
5th flame strike


Dimir
Cantrip encode thoughts, mage hand
1st disguise self, sleep
2nd detect thoughts, pass without trace
3rd gaseous form, meld into stone, nondetection
4th arcane eye, freedom of movement
5th modify memory


Golgari
Cantrip dancing lights, spare the dying
1st entangle, ray of sickness
2nd protection from poison, ray of enfeeblement, spider climb
3rd animate dead, plant growth
4th giant insect, grasping vine
5th cloudkill, insect plague


Gruul
Cantrip fire bolt, produce flame
1st compelled duel, speak with animals, thunderwave
2nd beast sense, shatter
3rd conjure animals, conjure barrage
4th dominate beast, stoneskin
5th destructive wave


Izzet
Cantrip produce flame, shocking grasp
1st chaos bolt, create or destroy water, unseen servant
2nd heat metal, rope trick
3rd call lightning, elemental weapon, glyph of warding
4th conjure minor elementals, divination, Otiluke’s resilient sphere
5th animate objects, conjure elemental


Orzhov
Cantrip friends, guidance
1st command, illusory script
2nd enthrall, ray of enfeeblement, zone of truth
3rd bestow curse, speak with dead, spirit guardians
4th blight, death ward, Leomund’s secret chest
5th geas


Rakdos
Cantrip fire bolt, vicious mockery
1st burning hands, dissonant whispers, hellish rebuke
2nd crown of madness, enthrall, flaming sphere
3rd fear, haste
4th confusion, wall of fire
5th dominate person


Selesnya
Cantrip druidcraft, friends
1st aid, animal friendship, charm person
2nd animal messenger, calm emotions, warding bond
3rd plant growth, speak with plants
4th aura of life, conjure minor elementals
5th awaken, commune with nature


Simic
Cantrip acid splash, druidcraft
1st detect poison and disease, expeditious retreat, jump
2nd alter self, enhance ability, enlarge/reduce
3rd gaseous form, water breathing, wind wall
4th freedom of movement, polymorph
5th creation

------

So, just glancing at that... Izzet is the only way I know how to make Shocking Grasp key off Wisdom by being an Izzet Cleric. So Tempest Clerics that've always wanted a lightning based cantrip keying off Wisdom...

[jaappleton]

Could you tell us if they say anything about the links between the M:tG setting and the D&D one?

What are some of the NPCs?

I'll try. I'm being brutally honest, my knowledge of MtG is absolutely minimal at best. I'll take a look and see if anything jumps out.

EDIT: I went to NPCs by Statblock. I'll throw out some named people, but I don't know if they're in the MtG lore or created for this.

So here they are:


Isperia
Lazav the Faceless
Jarad Vod Savo
Borborygmos
Niv-Mizzet
Obzedat Ghost Council
Rakdos
Trostani
Zegana

[Daphne]

You get a bonus list of spells added to your spell list. Each Guild grants access to different spells. And they're added to your class regardless of your spellcasting stat. This works as long as you have Spellcasting OR Pact Magic, so Warlocks do apply.

So martials get nothing from joining a guild? The company name is Wizards of the Coast after all...

[Unoriginal]

More on Guild Spells

Here's where things get dicey as far as balance goes, it seems.

[snip]

Wait wait wait.

Do the non-casters get anything? Any guild perk or whatever?


So martials get nothing from joining a guild? The company name is Wizards of the Coast after all...

More to the point, it's a setting from Magic: the Gathering.

Seriously, though, having a couple more spells per level to your list isn't really going to imbalance the classes, because it's no that big a perk, but it'd be odd if those with magic gained a perk and the others nothing.

[jaappleton]

So martials get nothing from joining a guild? The company name is Wizards of the Coast after all...

Uhhhhh.............. Nope.

What's interesting is that Rangers and Paladins have Spellcasting but traditionally no cantrips. Do these add cantrips to them, based on the guild? I'd say no, since you still have to pick the cantrips. And they don't get to pick cantrips.

The Guild spells do wonders for ATs and EKs, though, by really expanding their spell lists.

[Mana Opal]

This Guild Spell List mechanic is pretty interesting, I'll admit. It'll take me a moment to look over all of them, of course, but I think I can comment on your Izzeti Cleric musing at least: the most appropriate domains for such a character I can think of at the moment are Knowledge (PHB+1 strikes again!), Arcana (the most on-point, I think), and Forge (assuming they specialize in creating wires, filaments, and Mizzium-based materials). That list's got two of my personal favorite Domains on it, at least, so I have an idea to work with should I ever wind up playing a Ravnica-based game!

On that note, how do the Mizzium-based Magic Items look?

Edit: Those NPCs you mentioned are the Guildmasters, as of the Return to Ravnica block. Pretty important folks, really.

[jaappleton]

On that note, how do the Mizzium-based Magic Items look?

Mizzium Mortar is a magic item.

What do you think? :smallbiggrin:

[Mana Opal]

Mizzium Mortar is a magic item.

What do you think? :smallbiggrin:

*Straps the Mortar to an Apparatus of Kwalish* Strap in, people, we're going thrull hunting! :smallcool:

[jaappleton]

*Straps the Mortar to an Apparatus of Kwalish* Strap in, people, we're going thrull hunting! :smallcool:

Also Pyroconverger.

[Foxhound438]

More on Guild Spells
(snip)

My immediate optimistic thought is that it's a needed net positive for rangers, since they have so few spells that I'd ever actually want to cast.

[jaappleton]

My immediate optimistic thought is that it's a needed net positive for rangers, since they have so few spells that I'd ever actually want to cast.

Agreed.

While I totally understand and actually support why Shield isn't on any particular list, I also kinda wish it was because I'm chaotic evil.

EDIT: I enjoy that Hellish Rebuke is on a list. That's a decent spell for lower levels, and I wish more classes got it. I do wish Moonbeam were on a list, I think that's a very useful, underrated spell. Maybe someday we'll get a Moon Domain Cleric with it.

[Sception]

The Guild spells do wonders for ATs and EKs, though, by really expanding their spell lists.

Do they really, though? I mean, it adds a few spells to the already-broadest-in-the-game Wizard spell list that they choose from, but they're still stuck with the school restrictions on most of their spells known, right?

[jaappleton]

Do they really, though? I mean, it adds a few spells to the already-broadest-in-the-game Wizard spell list that they choose from, but they're still stuck with the school restrictions on most of their spells known, right?

They're still stuck with the spell school restrictions, except for the rare occasion when they're allowed to pick an out-of-school spell.

But, one list does get Pass Without Trace. Helloooooo, Arcane Trickster! And I suppose light armored archery based EKs would also enjoy that one.

EDIT: One also gets both Guidance and Spirit Guardians. Solid additions for sure.

[Naanomi]

Loxodon Inquisitive Rogue is on my list of things to do now

[Foxhound438]

EDIT: One also gets both Guidance and Spirit Guardians. Solid additions for sure.

it's basically everything a paladin ever wants- SG without having to drop six levels in bard or be oath of the crown (eeeew)

[Mikal]

MAGIC ITEMS!

-Illusionists bracers are outright BROKEN. Very Rare, attunement by a spellcaster. Cast a cantrip? Do it again as a bonus action. HELLO WARLOCKS!

-Sunforger is a Warhammer that can be thrown once per short rest, dealing 6d6 fire or half on a save, once per short / long rest

(More to come, work wifi is acting up)

Those bracers would also be dang nasty for an EK with War Magic or multiclassed Swashbuckler in general.

Double Booming Blades and a third attack or just two booming blades as a swashbuckler before moving away?
Nice.

[Arkhios]

For Centaurs to be labeled as Fey makes a whole lot of sense. They fall into same category with fauns and satyrs in various folklores, and those guys are pretty heavily in the fey department.

[jaappleton]

Those bracers would also be dang nasty for an EK with War Magic or multiclassed Swashbuckler in general.

Double Booming Blades and a third attack or just two booming blades as a swashbuckler before moving away?
Nice.

Hmmm... Lets say a lv11 Cleric. Any one with Potent Spellcasting. Let's assume 20 Wisdom.

Spirit Guardians is up, because its a Cleric, of course its up. Lets cast it at 4th level.

4d8 + Word of Radiance (Action) + Word of Radiance (Bonus Action)

So that's...

4d8 + 3d6 + 5 + 3d6 + 5 = An ally-friendly 49 damage to all enemies near you.

Is it the absolute best way to utilize those? Probably not, but its certainly well done.

[jaappleton]

it's basically everything a paladin ever wants- SG without having to drop six levels in bard or be oath of the crown (eeeew)

And I'd absolutely agree with this. Paladins should always want Spirit Guardians. With their boost to saving throws, its awesome on them. I've heard of highly armored Clerics and Crown Paladins parking themselves in doorways and just Dodging the whole time as enemies get shredded attempted to get through.

[Millstone85]

For Centaurs to be labeled as Fey makes a whole lot of sense. They fall into same category with fauns and satyrs in various folklores, and those guys are pretty heavily in the fey department.I have a general dislike of the monstrosity creature type. The MM calls it "a catch-all category for creatures that don't fit into any other type", but I can often clearly see these creatures fit into another type.

[Mikal]

Hmmm... Lets say a lv11 Cleric. Any one with Potent Spellcasting. Let's assume 20 Wisdom.

Spirit Guardians is up, because its a Cleric, of course its up. Lets cast it at 4th level.

4d8 + Word of Radiance (Action) + Word of Radiance (Bonus Action)

So that's...

4d8 + 3d6 + 5 + 3d6 + 5 = An ally-friendly 49 damage to all enemies near you.

Is it the absolute best way to utilize those? Probably not, but its certainly well done.

Single Target variant-
Celestial Warlock 6/Draconic Sorcerer 6 using firebolt. Quickened Spell without using Sorcery Points!
3d10+10+3d10+10
Every round (if it hits). Take elemental adept to make every 1 rolled a 2. Say about 59 average damage.

Compare to using these with Eldritch Blast at that level and it's almost equal (not factoring in invocations). That's about what, 63 average damage?

Gets even better for the sorcerer if they use those SP to Twin rather than Quicken the firebolts.

[jaappleton]

Single Target variant-
Celestial Warlock 6/Draconic Sorcerer 6 using firebolt. Quickened Spell without using Sorcery Points!
3d10+10+3d10+10
Every round (if it hits). Take elemental adept to make every 1 rolled a 2. Say about 59 average damage.

Compare to using these with Eldritch Blast at that level and it's almost equal (not factoring in invocations). That's about what, 63 average damage?

Gets even better for the sorcerer if they use those SP to Twin rather than Quicken the firebolts.

Yeah, 63. Though I'm going to be taking EB every time, due to the multiple chances to hit. Personally, I'm a 'death by papercuts' guy over a 'all or nothing' scenario.

[Misterwhisper]

Loxodon Inquisitive Rogue is on my list of things to do now

I would like to see a Loxodon Their rogue, picking pockets and locks with his trunk.
Also the idea of a large elephant trying to sneak past the guards on a tightrope is kind of funny.

[Mikal]

Yeah, 63. Though I'm going to be taking EB every time, due to the multiple chances to hit. Personally, I'm a 'death by papercuts' guy over a 'all or nothing' scenario.

Same here. Still makes for a fun pyromaniac build though.
I mean, just the invocations alone make EB better. Use the knockback one, and the enemy will be facing a force powered firehose they can never return from.

[jaappleton]

Same here. Still makes for a fun pyromaniac build though.
I mean, just the invocations alone make EB better. Use the knockback one, and the enemy will be facing a force powered firehose they can never return from.

Hmm... Level 11.

Repelling Blast x6.

Man the DM is going to rip those bracers away so damn fast :smallbiggrin:

[Misterwhisper]

I want to make a Centaur Bard whose is a tap dancer.

I will name him Savion Hoofer.

[Mikal]

Hmm... Level 11.

Repelling Blast x6.

Man the DM is going to rip those bracers away so damn fast :smallbiggrin:

Or Grasp of Hadar anyone attempting to escape. Pity Lance of Lethargy is only once per creature per turn... though if you're facing a swarm pushing/pulling/slowing down up to six of them at level 11 is nice...

EDIT: We forgot to add Hex Damage to one of the targets as well, from a nova perspective.

[Mana Opal]

>Illusionist's Bracers
This one is actually on point for the card it's based on (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=illusionist%27s%20bracers)- and just like that card, the overall effectiveness of the item is dependent on who's attuned to it. At least the devs were smart enough to make it so that their rarity is too high for any low-leveled character to get!

The Azorious spell list is very lockdown oriented, as to be expected. I don't think Paladins got very many of those? They seem like the class that both gets a few new tricks here, and is most thematically appropriate (Druid doesn't care about your civilized laws; an argument probably could be made for Rangers, though). I'm not really too impressed (never been a fan of the Lawmages, anyway), but being able to give Counterspell to non-Arcane casters at last should be useful.

The Boros are definitely still the Azorious' more violent counterpart, bring order to the land with Blinding Smite and Guiding Bolt, and bolstering their fellows in the ranks with Heroism and Beacon of Hope. My initial reaction was thinking that this list would do wonders for an Eldritch Knight, but I'm not so sure on that now. The only new cantrip they get is Guidance, and while that's certainly useful out of cambat, that's never been where the Boros shined in-universe (to the point that the other guilds mockingly state that the sound of glass shattering as a Legionaire crashes through the window is what passes for subtlety among them) and it doesn't really work too well with War Magic. Blinding Smite might be handy to have as a reverse War Magic, but Paladins already get the spell, and the only thematically-appropriate Cleric Domain this doesn't have any particular asynergy with is Light (and that's assuming you haven't cast Spiritual Weapon to use your Bonus Action with). Said Light Cleric might be happy about getting Firebolt and Wall of Fire, at least.
Edit: Forgot about the Pact of the Celestial Warlock- these guys should get a little bit of help here. And since angels are providing support to the big raids and battles, it isn't hard to believe that there'd be a few of them here and there.

Dimir's all about subterfuge and information gathering (and erasing, as everyone else is likely to remind you), and their spell list definitely shows it. I'll admit that I was surprised to Meld Into Stone on it, though, and am similar caught off-guard to see that the new spell, Encode Thoughts, is a Cantrip. Seems like it's very handy for getting all sorts of Arcane goodies on your Gloomstalker Ranger, as well as nabbing Pass Without Trace on Arcane Tricksters, Shadow Soul Sorcerers, College of Whispers Bards, and Illusionist Wizards- It's fun for the whole family assuming the whole family isn't in a merderhobo game!

...The Golgari get Dancing Lights? Um, okay. Guess that makes a small amount of sense, considering their territory? I guess that would've been Infestation if Wizards didn't have this obsession with only using PHB spells in their extended spell lists- and not using the trick they used with the tritons' racial Wall of Water again. Anyway, this gives Underdark!Land Druids Animate Dead and Death/ Grave Clerics all sorts of Druidy control spells, plus some bug summoning to anyone who didn't have that yet. If you want to pick up Spare the Dying for some reason, aligning yourself with the Golgari seems like a decent enough way to do it. Seems to offer little to the Circle of Spores, though...

The Gruul Clans prove once again to be iconoclasts extraordinaires by giving their mages such wonderful things as Shatter, Conjure Barrage, and even Destruction Wave! This last one's particularly notable, because none of the Paladin Oaths fit with them thematically. Speaking of, Compelled Duel should probably be refluffed to something along the lines as 'Provoke'- the mechanics are on-point, but name too civil for the barbaric tribes. This list's a surprisingly balanced blend of basic utility, conjuring, and blasting, in a package that actually provides some benefit to the Druids that make up almost all of their spellcasting ranks- can't say I was expecting that one! Some Bards and the Wild Magic & Giant Soul Sorcerers make sense for these guys as well, and probably benefit from this list even more.

I'm admittedly surprised to see that neither Haste nor Fly are on the Izzet's list, and that Rope Trick of all things is- but that isn't exactly something to complain about, is it? Overall, the list has a bunch of elementally-themed blast spells, an information-gathering tool or two, the hamster ball of antimagic/ foe removal (Otiluke's Resilient Sphere), Chaos Bolt, and the Conjure Elemental Weird line of spells makes for a spell list that (almost) covers all of the League's bases. It's a shame they didn't get Counterspell, though- they did get my favorite spell with such an effect in the Return to Ravnica block, after all. Adds more benefits to the odd Divine Caster than the typical Arcane you'd see here, of course.

So, what does the mighty band+ religious center blend that is the Orzhov Guild get in their list? A lot of spells from the Cleric list, and a few Necromancy tools, of course! Unsurprisingly, this is mostly out-of-combat utility spells, so don't expect this list to help you out too much in a dungeon romp... outside of Spirit Guardians, anyway! Imagine that you're a School of Necromancy Wizard, having a zombie battle with one of your fellows, when they suddenly surround themselves the spectral angels with stained-glass wings that sheer through your undead horde. Wouldn't that be quite the unpleasant surprise! I gotta appreciate the fact that they didn't put Animate Dead on this list, since the majority of classes that'd be aligned with this guild already have it. Also, another source of Guidance for Arcane casters might be handy.

Fire, Fire, in the hall,
Who's the craziest of them all?
Yup, the Rakdos list is exactly what I expected- lost of flaming blast spells, a mild allusion to the fact that their Guildmaster is a friggin' archdemon in Hellish Rebuke, a steal-yo-friend spell (well, Crown of Madness tries, anyway), a chaos-inducer or two, and Haste. Adds a lot for Clerics, gives Bards some actual blasting power, and allows any spellcaster to ramp up the carnage their local Fighter is capable of creating. If there's one complaint I can levy against this list, it's the lack of Tasha's Hideous Laughter- but that hardly seems significant when you can make genuine laughter with a well-timed Viscous Mockery!

The Selesnya list, uh, definitely focuses far more on their hippy-esque "loveth both nature, and thy neighbor" aspect of the guild than the "we have an all-natural army at our beck and call" aspect, which I guess makes sense? I mean, the latest set did give them back the community-oriented Convoke ability over the army-amassing Populate they had in the last Ravnica block... Doesn't make seeing that Summon Animals isn't on the list any less confusing, though. I was initially disappointed that they didn't get Find Steed either, given how important their wolf-riding battalion is, but I guess those guys would be represented by the Oath of the Ancients Paladins anyway. Overall, the list seems like it adds more to the Fey Patron Warlock (the dryads have a tendency to rescue people) that it does the Circle of Dreams/ the Shepard Druid or Nature Domain Cleric.

Guess that since there was a distinct lack of permanent change-oriented spells, WoTC decided to make the Simic's list mostly just buff spells. Enlarge/Reduce, Polymorph (shame the Krasis don't seem to be available options), and Freedom of Movement are frequently handy things to have in many situations, and Gaseous Form, Detect Poison, and Water Breathing are thing's you'll be glad to have when they do come up, but... they don't really feel Simic. Concentration in particular jumps out as a limiting factor here, of course. At least they were clever enough to give them a spell to highlight that they are a scientific guild (Creation) and one with a Druidic bent (Wind Wall), but it ultimately falls a bit short. Can't really say I'm surprised, though- I realized months ago hat this was the Guild that would benefit most from getting new spells flavor-wise, and the leaked table of contents from last month had already revealed that they didn't get any...

All in all, we've got some big hits, and some massive misses here, as far as I'm concerned. Ya lose some, ya win some, right?

[jaappleton]

The best thing the Guild Spells help is by being able to almost replace certain bonus spell lists that, while thematic, kinda suck.

For example: I love the Arcane Domain Cleric's concept... but think its bonus spells absolutely suck wet ass.

Enter Guild Spells! Now I can cater my Wizard Not Wizard into being something far more useful!

And for the Tempest Cleric that just want even more ways to blow **** up, enter Guild Spells!

[Man_Over_Game]

For example: I love the Arcane Domain Cleric's concept... but think its bonus spells absolutely suck wet ass.


The main point of the bonus spells aren't to provide much in combat. Due to Clerics already being prepared casters with an extensive spell list with lots of diversity, the main benefit of the Arcana Cleric is to have the utility that's only ever available to Arcane casters.

It's not a great Cleric. It's not a great Wizard. But now you can do stuff that only Clerics can do (like heal), and the stuff only Wizards can do (planar stuff), without needing a full version of either. Obviously, if you have a Life Cleric or a Wizard in your group, it'd look like it will "suck wet ass", but if you're the only full caster in the group, you'll do a lot of cool things that your group will consistently rely on.

[Mana Opal]

things get pretty silly once spellbooks get involved.

Step 1: Have two or more Wizards in the party.

Step: 2: Have them all be aligned with different guilds.

Step 3: Have each of them take primarily off-list guild spells at level-up.

Step 4: Have them copy out of each others' spellbooks.

Step 5: Laugh as the next normie wizard you meet gets all confused about what the heck you even are~!

[Foxhound438]

Single Target variant-
Celestial Warlock 6/Draconic Sorcerer 6 using firebolt. Quickened Spell without using Sorcery Points!
3d10+10+3d10+10
Every round (if it hits). Take elemental adept to make every 1 rolled a 2. Say about 59 average damage.

Compare to using these with Eldritch Blast at that level and it's almost equal (not factoring in invocations). That's about what, 63 average damage?

Gets even better for the sorcerer if they use those SP to Twin rather than Quicken the firebolts.

if you happen to have hex on a target before hand (say we're sneaking up), it's 6d10+6d6+30 for an average of 84 on hits. Pretty strong, there's probably things with higher burst damage, but you can keep this up all day. Definitely an item that you shouldn't give out if your charisma caster is already over performing in damage.

That said, it's super on flavor for what it's based on. Bravo to that.

[LichPlease]

Seems like Warlocks now have a way of getting Animate Dead or Bestow Curse as spells known without multiclassing. Nice.

Disappointed Wizards still have no easy way of accessing Contagion.

[Waterdeep Merch]

things get pretty silly once spellbooks get involved.

Step 1: Have two or more Wizards in the party.

Step: 2: Have them all be aligned with different guilds.

Step 3: Have each of them take primarily off-list guild spells at level-up.

Step 4: Have them copy out of each others' spellbooks.

Step 5: Laugh as the next normie wizard you meet gets all confused about what the heck you even are~!
That could be a weirdly fun concept for a low level Ravnica adventure. You're hired by a guild to hunt down a black market and utterly destroy them, but the guild won't say why. Turns out there's an underground spell trade between wizards of different guilds, and they're making the guild nervous. One of the other guilds is trying to use this to their advantage to acquire spells, but they're also planning on letting the rest of the organization disintegrate to cover their tracks.

[Tectorman]

So Centaurs are Medium?

Whew! Big load off my mind.

And they're also Fey?

Not sure how I feel about that. Blanket immunity to everything that only works on humanoids and blanket vulnerability to everything that specifies Fey.

[Sception]

I've been pretty down on this release ever since I saw how little crunch was actually in it, and how they had nerfed the one bit of crunch that I was still genuinely interested in, the circle of spores, into oblivion (it's super easy to get knocked out of your shape! spore damage cut to less than half AND allows a con save to negate altogether!).

I will say though that the guild spells business is at least kind of neat, and I actually like this version of the loxodon, after having been tremendously disappointed by the earlier playtest version.

It's not enough to save this book for me, but at least it's something.

[Naanomi]

So Centaurs are Medium?

Whew! Big load off my mind.

And they're also Fey?

Not sure how I feel about that. Blanket immunity to everything that only works on humanoids and blanket vulnerability to everything that specifies Fey.
*very* few monster/NPC abilities care about the distinction, so mostly just a PvP consideration

[jaappleton]

Centaurs being Fey renders them immune to many spells.

Hold Person? Charm Person? Dominate Person? Etc.

[Naanomi]

Centaurs being Fey renders them immune to many spells.

Hold Person? Charm Person? Dominate Person? Etc.
How many monsters use those spells?

[Mana Opal]

The immunities come up more often against enemy casters, not monsters. I, for one, encounter more humanoid foes than beasts in my games...

[MidgetMarine]

I’d love to hear about the Mizzium Mortars item and other M Items, since I bought the classes but don’t want to shell out for the whole book.

[Willie the Duck]

things get pretty silly once spellbooks get involved.

Step 1: Have two or more Wizards in the party.

Step: 2: Have them all be aligned with different guilds.

Step 3: Have each of them take primarily off-list guild spells at level-up.

Step 4: Have them copy out of each others' spellbooks.

Step 5: Laugh as the next normie wizard you meet gets all confused about what the heck you even are~!

Just looking at this book (the spell lists there and that cantrip doubler) tells me that the designers are expecting DM's to put some campaign constraint on such madness (or else be onboard for the insanity).

[Millstone85]

How many monsters use those spells?I count at least 40.

[Nadevoc]

I’d love to hear about the Mizzium Mortars item and other M Items, since I bought the classes but don’t want to shell out for the whole book.

The mortar is a rare item that lets you spew a cone of fire, or launch an AoE bombardment if you use more charges.

There's also a Mizzium apparatus that lets arcane casters try to cast spells in their class list they don't know and Miz armor that negates crits and basically gives Evasion on STR and CON saves

[xyianth]

Some immediate observations:

Golgari breaks warlocks. Animate dead being cast from pact magic slots as early as 5th level is something the designers explicitly wanted to avoid.

Orzhov is an incredible package for hexblade warlocks, valor/swords bards, bladesinger wizards, and all paladins. It's also pretty great for arcane tricksters and eldritch knights. It might even be great for druids.

Simic also potentially breaks warlocks. Polymorph being cast from pact magic slots as early as 7th level is also something the designers wanted to explicitly avoid.

Most of the others seem fine, though I am disappointed in the cantrip options. I was hoping this would grant a way to pick up an int based magic stones or shillelagh. Oh well, wis based shocking grasp is something I guess.

[Misterwhisper]

Some immediate observations:

Golgari breaks warlocks. Animate dead being cast from pact magic slots as early as 5th level is something the designers explicitly wanted to avoid.

Orzhov is an incredible package for hexblade warlocks, valor/swords bards, bladesinger wizards, and all paladins. It's also pretty great for arcane tricksters and eldritch knights. It might even be great for druids.

Simic also potentially breaks warlocks. Polymorph being cast from pact magic slots as early as 7th level is also something the designers wanted to explicitly avoid.

Most of the others seem fine, though I am disappointed in the cantrip options. I was hoping this would grant a way to pick up an int based magic stones or shillelagh. Oh well, wis based shocking grasp is something I guess.

Yeah, my npc warloc villain can maintain somewhere around 736 skeletons if he is not busy, and the. Fire 8 eldritch blast rays per round.

This is also not using mystic arcanum at all so still has a spell slot of 6th 7th 8th and 9th level around for if it is needed.
Only needs one broken item and MtG stuff that should have never been in 5e.

Something tells me Drako had a stroke when he read this and saw how much more rediculous it is compared to a divine soul sorcerer when it comes to undead minionmancy.

Now too look at all the broken martial class options... oh.

[Misterwhisper]

Hey. Are you trying coffeelocking minions?

I don't know if you noticed, but, Divine Soul Sorcerer level 20 is a Coffeelock, but It can multiple spells, not only animate dead.

It basically has infinite Army of Undead. Also, It can use Distant Metamagic and Animal shapes to create an Army of Giant Eagles, The Sorcerer King's Undeads can ride giant eagles, while Warlock's army can't fly.

The Sorcerer King Level 20 deals around 1200 damage without defense.

Eldritch blast? It's bad. The Sorcerer King at level 11 deals 12 shots at 600' dealing average 25 damage each shot and still quicken a healing/buffing spell and the Sorcerer King can steals powerful bodies.
Renegate Spell/Clone turns the Sorcerer King unbeatiable.
The Sorcerer King level 20 has resistence against all damage.
A single Time Stop and It's over.




However, I love Warlocks, Paladins and Sorcerers. I'm happy to see they becoming really good!

Does not need coffeelock broken stuff that is not going to actually fly at any table.

Just playing a warforged envoy warlock is fine, does not really what subclass or pact.

Does not even need the magic item, it does nothing for the the build.

Modify memory requires you to talk to do anything with it so subtle means nothing.
You also have advantage on the save if used in combat.
Also, you would have to wade through both armies to get in range.
Also, it is an action to cast but but takes up to a minute to do anything with it, while you are standing there in range getting shot.

Also, could just go with undying patron, all your undead have to make a wisdom save to just attack at all, then they have to hit the ac, with disadvantage, and only a to hit of 4.

For the 15 mins it will be before you are banned feel free to come up with something that works actually by the book.

[Kite474]

Yeah, my npc warloc villain can maintain somewhere around 736 skeletons if he is not busy, and the. Fire 8 eldritch blast rays per round.

This is also not using mystic arcanum at all so still has a spell slot of 6th 7th 8th and 9th level around for if it is needed.
Only needs one broken item and MtG stuff that should have never been in 5e.

Something tells me Drako had a stroke when he read this and saw how much more rediculous it is compared to a divine soul sorcerer when it comes to undead minionmancy.

Now too look at all the broken martial class options... oh.

Silly Billy. Martials arent allowed to have nice things.... Because if they do people will get mad. (Rest in Piece 4e and Bot9S)

Really though it is kind of sad that its been about 4 years and 5e is already showing signs that Martials are just meant to be the newbie class and to do nothing fancy outside of combat.

[Misterwhisper]

1)Are you trying use multiple short rest right? It's coffeelock, but for you, limited to animate dead.
Sorcerer are better.

Modify memory needs to speak after the creature is charmed. It works perfectly. Subtle Metamagic is a Magic Bullet.

2) Hey hello to Sanctuary Spell.

However, 1 rounds and it's over for you.

Stealth mage defeats you so easily.

3) No undying patron against Giant Eagles.

However, I love the warlock too.

Sanctuary does not work like at all, your entire plan is to cast a spell at the enemy which breaks it immediately.

Also what about all the opportunity attack along the way?

Also, like you, the warlock could just be “disguised” in the group of close to 800 undead.

If you have an army of giant eagles you are. It a necromancer at all, you are a half thrown together Druid.

Also, you would have to have sanctuary up, which is easy to see with constant detect magic, so good luck hiding. Also it only lasts one minute.

Coffee lock is about a massive pool of spell points which is not what the raw does.

A warforged just stands around and casts his spells, rests and repeats, nothing coffeelock about it, just straight by the rules raw.

[Misterwhisper]

Silly Billy. Martials arent allowed to have nice things.... Because if they do people will get mad. (Rest in Piece 4e and Bot9S)

Really though it is kind of sad that its been about 4 years and 5e is already showing signs that Martials are just meant to be the newbie class and to do nothing fancy outside of combat.

It is the way spells work.

Every new book that comes out will have a stack of new spells, to make people buy the book they have to make these spells more powerful than the ones before, coughboomingbladecough.

The only thing a martial can even have a chance at is new feats. However they can’t go back and trade them out, they have to give up stats to get them, if they are allowed at all, there are some games that do not allow feats or trim out the broken ones. Very few tables ban powerful offensive spells because it would not be fair to casters.

[Willie the Duck]

True. Spells are modular, swappable bits of game rules in discrete little packages. It is pretty hard for them not to be more accessible than other parts of character build currency.

At least wizards/clerics/druids seem to have the least relative gains, so it's not the WotC faves that come away with the biggest chunk. EK, AT, Rangers, and Sorcerers seem to gain the most.

[JackPhoenix]

For Centaurs to be labeled as Fey makes a whole lot of sense. They fall into same category with fauns and satyrs in various folklores, and those guys are pretty heavily in the fey department.

Not really. Only mythological category they share with satyrs is "they are both from Greek myths". They never were considered spirits (which would be fitting for fey) like various types of nymphs were.

Making them fey is weird, both with the context of mytology, and in the context of D&D bestiary.

[ATHATH]

Did viashino get in?

Also, hoo boy, Animate Dead castable with Pact Magic at 5th level is gonna be, uh, "interesting". Are the guild spells an optional/variant rule?

Order Clerics being able to cast Enchantment spells as Bonus Actions sounds really fun to use. Would [race that gets a SCAG cantrip] Paladin 2/Order Cleric 6 be a viable build? Smite every turn with a SCAG cantrip and use your Bonus Actions to cast Command, Charm Person, or an Enchantment spell that requires Concentration to maintain (if you don't have one up already). Does the ability have a clause that forbids it from reducing Geas's casting time down to a Bonus Action?

Also, I'd like to point out that Bless is an Enchantment spell.

[Citadel97501]

Did viashino get in?

Also, hoo boy, Animate Dead castable with Pact Magic at 5th level is gonna be, uh, "interesting". Are the guild spells an optional/variant rule?

Order Clerics being able to cast Enchantment spells as Bonus Actions sounds really fun to use. Would [race that gets a SCAG cantrip] Paladin 2/Order Cleric 6 be a viable build? Smite every turn with a SCAG cantrip and use your Bonus Actions to cast Command, Charm Person, or an Enchantment spell that requires Concentration to maintain (if you don't have one up already). Does the ability have a clause that forbids it from reducing Geas's casting time down to a Bonus Action?

Also, I'd like to point out that Bless is an Enchantment spell.

Sadly no, my poor beloved Viashino were booted out of the book, I would also like to point out that none of the races available can have +2 Charisma as Half Elves & Tieflings are not available as far as I can tell. So it seems that charisma casters while getting awesome spells got kicked in the junk...

[Unoriginal]

Personally I strongly disagree with the idea this is a sign WotC is relegating martials as "newbie classes", or that 5e has a "caster power creep", or that this is heralding a return of "caster supremacy", or anything like that.

That being said, it's weird they gave the casters this perk which, while not big by itself, is still a perk they get just for existing, when they could have easily made something for the non-casters too, like "gain advantage for X checks/saves", "gain Expertise for X proficiency", "once per long rest, get back XdY HPs" or any of the Boons they could have done.

Because an expended spell list is just that: a Boon. And 5e Boons are the answer to the whole "casters are modulable because spells, martials can only get feats" dichotomy, as it makes avoiding said dichotomy ridiculously easy.

[Willie the Duck]

Personally I strongly disagree with the idea this is a sign WotC is relegating martials as "newbie classes", or that 5e has a "caster power creep", or that this is heralding a return of "caster supremacy", or anything like that.

Well, no. I don't think this thing carries past MtG crossovers in general. The earlier pdf crossovers clearly indicated that there was less concern for balance in it than the rest of the game.

[Mana Opal]

Said earlier PDFs also didn't have any guidance from the modern DnD team, and were made almost single-handedly made by the man who designed the Artificer and entire Incarnum system in 3.X... which isn't especially well known for its balance. The Guildmaster's Guide is a predominantly DnD creation in terms of the people behind it, with a few MTG peeps on board to make sure they have the fluff right- and as such, balance would actually be a concern for this. I don't imagine this spell list hing would carry over to other games all too well at the moment (unless they decide to make a set for the Faerunian Factions after this), and you don't get any bonus spells if your character is one of the Gateless within the context of this realm- it's probably more a perk for actually working with the set's intended theme more than anything.

[Misterwhisper]

Personally I strongly disagree with the idea this is a sign WotC is relegating martials as "newbie classes", or that 5e has a "caster power creep", or that this is heralding a return of "caster supremacy", or anything like that.

That being said, it's weird they gave the casters this perk which, while not big by itself, is still a perk they get just for existing, when they could have easily made something for the non-casters too, like "gain advantage for X checks/saves", "gain Expertise for X proficiency", "once per long rest, get back XdY HPs" or any of the Boons they could have done.

Because an expended spell list is just that: a Boon. And 5e Boons are the answer to the whole "casters are modulable because spells, martials can only get feats" dichotomy, as it makes avoiding said dichotomy ridiculously easy.

That is a good point how about we create a book that details how every non-caster gains access to superiority dice and a small set of maneuvers, I mean that is fair right. All materials train in special fighting skills because of their backgrounds right. I am sure all battlemasters would love even more superiority dice and an extra option or two.

[Naanomi]

Vedalken getting that d4 makes them the best craftsmen currently available; as well as the best at lore master/investigators/pickpockets

[Millstone85]

That is a good point how about we create a book that details how every non-caster gains access to superiority dice and a small set of maneuvers, I mean that is fair right. All materials train in special fighting skills because of their backgrounds right. I am sure all battlemasters would love even more superiority dice and an extra option or two.It is almost as if all classes should have modular "powers", be they magic spells or martial exploits.

[Misterwhisper]

It is almost as if all classes should have modular "powers", be they magic spells or martial exploits.

The issue is, the casters are not limited to their own class anymore, just by being casters now they can pick various very good spells from lists they don’t even know, can cast them using their own primary stat, and it costs them nothing.

[Unoriginal]

It is almost as if all classes should have modular "powers", be they magic spells or martial exploits.

No, they should not.

[Kite474]

No, they should not.

And your recommendation that doesnt rely on a overly benevolent DM (i.e Boons) is?

[Sigreid]

Just a word of warning to anyone else using Fantasy Grounds out there. Currently this module isn't working the way it should in the tool.

[stoutstien]

Just happy I get my order domain so I can build my lazy/bossy caster

[Unoriginal]

And your recommendation that doesnt rely on a overly benevolent DM (i.e Boons) is?

Playing 5e.

[Asmotherion]

I'd be a bit happier if they prioritised a Guide to Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Greyhawk and other D&D core settings that people actually need to play some planar adventures in.

I mean, I'm cool with including Magic: the Gathering into the D&D universe, but I believe it should be a seccond priority to actually transcribing the important worlds that already exist... and so far we only got a bit of Ebberon (Fortunatelly, I love Ebberon) and a lot of Magic: The Gathering.

[Arkhios]

I'd be a bit happier if they prioritised a Guide to Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Greyhawk and other D&D core settings that people actually need to play some planar adventures in.

I mean, I'm cool with including Magic: the Gathering into the D&D universe, but I believe it should be a seccond priority to actually transcribing the important worlds that already exist... and so far we only got a bit of Eberron (Fortunatelly, I love Eberron) and a lot of Magic: The Gathering.

Give them more time. I believe they'll deliver.

PS. It's Eberron. Not Ebberon.

[Citadel97501]

I'd be a bit happier if they prioritised a Guide to Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Greyhawk and other D&D core settings that people actually need to play some planar adventures in.

I mean, I'm cool with including Magic: the Gathering into the D&D universe, but I believe it should be a second priority to actually transcribing the important worlds that already exist... and so far we only got a bit of Ebberon (Fortunatelly, I love Ebberon) and a lot of Magic: The Gathering.

Personally, I think they would need to release a better more balanced version of Mystic before they worked on Dark Sun as the Psionics are required for that setting. Although they can just adjust it to be more focused on the 2 wizard sub-classes of Defilers, with the psionics being replaced as Sorcerers, that might be to much overlap on spell options though.

[Brutalitops]

MAGIC ITEMS!

-Illusionists bracers are outright BROKEN. Very Rare, attunement by a spellcaster. Cast a cantrip? Do it again as a bonus action. HELLO WARLOCKS!

-Sunforger is a Warhammer that can be thrown once per short rest, dealing 6d6 fire or half on a save, once per short / long rest

(More to come, work wifi is acting up)



Quick question. Could you give us a summary of what the rest of the magic items are.

[Asmotherion]

Personally, I think they would need to release a better more balanced version of Mystic before they worked on Dark Sun as the Psionics are required for that setting. Although they can just adjust it to be more focused on the 2 wizard sub-classes of Defilers, with the psionics being replaced as Sorcerers, that might be to much overlap on spell options though.

Oh, I'd be a big fun of that...

Or some Mix of Defiler/Preserver Wizard, and Psionic Subclasses for the rest of the Classes.

[Prince Vine]

There is no explicit rule (which doesn't matter because houserule) but each guild comes with a list of appropriate classes (as well as races). Golgari do not get warlocks if the DM requires characters match class and race to guild, which may not be an unreasonable call if one is concerned with broken spellcasting.

My table just plays with reasonable limits on rests to counter silly warlock lawyering.

As an aside, I heard speculation that Dark Sun will probably not come to 5e due to how upset the Athas group was with how 4e handled the setting.

[Louro]

As an aside, I heard speculation that Dark Sun will probably not come to 5e due to how upset the Athas group was with how 4e handled the setting.

I really really hope you're wrong.

Do away entirely with the psionic class. Just introduce some psionic wild powers all players can pick and a few feats.

[Mikaleus]

I wish the Simic were given a subclass option like the Azorius and Golgari were given (Order Domain and Circle of Spores).

To play a Simic character, say a biomancer, the suggestion from the guide is to pick Transmutation Wizard and add flavour. Those who are affected by your spells gain marine animal and or reptilian traits.

Even a unique cantrip that felt Simic would have been nice to see. Dimir got a Encode thoughts cantrip for example.

At least a Simic character with some renown can get a category 1 krasis buddy.

For fellow Simic fans, a terraformer would be a Land druid (Coastal / forest).
Deep sage wizard a Conjuration wizard.
Deepsage Monk a Four elements monk (focusing on air/ water)

These are suggestions from the guide.

[Azreal]

snip.

I 100% agree with the Simic needing their own thing. Honestly the Summoner from Pathfinder would be a relatively good fit. You can make your Krasis (eidolon) or you can modify yourself (synthesis).

Mix up the spell list for flavor and bam something that suits the Simic.

[Windwaert]

Guys, I just noticed that the new Natural Armor feature of the Loxodon (12+CON) does not explicitly mention anatomy, so it should work in Wildshape. (Brown Bear: 11 --> 15, Crag Cat: 13 --> 15, etc)

I like that they buffed the Loxodon, but the really should've added options for the Simic Hybric.

[Dr. Cliché]

Centaur: Fey, Medium, 40ft movement, +2 Str, +1 Wis, Fey (Not Humanoid!)

*Headbutts desk.*

[Mikaleus]

I 100% agree with the Simic needing their own thing. Honestly the Summoner from Pathfinder would be a relatively good fit. You can make your Krasis (eidolon) or you can modify yourself (synthesis).

Mix up the spell list for flavor and bam something that suits the Simic.
I was hoping for the same thing!
It would have been great.

Admittedly the krasis tables are fun, and if I were to run a ravnica adventure i could have a lot of fun with rogue hybrids and krasis escapees.

But I wanted that fun as a PC too.

I’m hoping that the races of ravnica and Volos get racial feat options in the future. I’d love Simic hybrids to get access to more mutations.

[jaappleton]

And for those asking:

YES I will post more info on the magic items. It’ll be a bit later today.

[jaappleton]

More on Magic Items

Mizzium Armor - Rare
Crits become normal hits, when you are subjected to a magical effect that allows you to make a Strength or Constitution saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw.

Pariah's Shield - Rare
You gain a +1 bonus to AC for every two allies within 5 feet of you (up to a maximum of +3) while you wield this shield. This bonus is in addition to the shield’s normal bonus to AC. When a creature you can see within 5 feet of you takes damage, you can use your reaction to take that damage, instead of the creature taking it. When you do so, the damage type changes to force.

Guild Signet Ring - Uncommon
Each Guild has one, lets you cast a low level spell (typically 1st level, save DC 13) associated with the guild. Rakdos gets Hellish Rebuke, Boros gets Heroism, etc.

Skyblinder Staff - Uncommon
+1 quarterstaff, +1 to spell attack rolls, If a flying creature you can see within 30 feet of you makes an attack roll against you, you can use your reaction to cause disadvantage on the attack roll, and it must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or be blinded until the start of its next turn.

Voyager Staff - Very Rare
+1 quarterstaff, +1 to spell attack rolls, spend charges to cast certain spells such as Passwall, Misty Step, Banishment, Teleport and Blink.

Rakdos Riteknife - Legendary Dagger (The ONLY Legendary)
Kill someone? They can only come back with Wish. The dagger can hold 5 souls maximum. For each soul, deal an extra 1d4 necrotic. Spent soul amounts to regain HP, or spend all 5 souls trapped to basically cast Power Word Kill.

Sunforger - Rare Warhammer
+2 warhammer, use an action to throw it up to 120ft once per short or long rest. When you do, 20ft radius explosion, DC15 Dex save, 6d6 Fire, half damage on a save. Use your next Action to cause the weapon to reappear in your hand. (Needing an Action to recall it really sucks)

Sword of the Paruns - Very Rare Longsword
+1 Longsword, and this can do quite a bit.
If you Attack? Enable one creature to use its Reaction to make an attack
If you Dodge? Enable one creature to use its Reaction to Dodge
If you Dash? Enable once creature to move up to its speed
(VERY Warlord-y. Love it for an Order Cleric, or Battlemaster Fighter)

Guild Keyrune - Wondrous, Varied Rarity
Basically? Each Guild has a unique Figurine of Wondrous Power. They range from Giant Eagles and Giant Scorpions to Intellect Devourers and Winged Thrulls.

Illusionists Bracers - Very Rare
Cast a Cantrip? Use a bonus action on your turn to do it again. No limit on how often you can do it. (Legitimately one of the most unbalancing things I've seen, this is borderline insane, and I can't believe it exists. And this is said by a self admitted power gamer :smalltongue: )

Mizzium Apparatus - Uncommon (Sorc, Warlock or Wiz only)
Can be used as an Arcane Focus, can attempt to cast a spell you don't know / have prepared. The spell in question MUST be on your class's spell list, and you must have a spell slot capable of casting it with. Arcana Check, with DC = 10 + Spell Slot used *2 (So a 2nd level spell is 14). Success? Cast it as normal. Fail? Cast a spell on the table shown. (Seems this is where the School of Invention ended up)

Mizzium Mortar - Rare Wondrous
Expend a charge to cause a 30ft cone of 5d4 fire, or multiple charges for 5d8 Fire with a radius of 20ft

Moodmark Paint - Common Wondrous
Apply blush to your face which automatically changes to reflect your emotional state. Wear your emotions on your... face? Dark Elves has Adv on seeing it.

Peregrine Mask - Very Rare Wondrous
Adv on Initiative, fly speed of 60ft

Pyroconverger - Uncommon Wondrous
Use an action to cast 2nd lv Burning Hands, basically, at will. But every time you do, increase the chance of it malfunctioning (resets every long rest)

Spies Murmur - Uncommon Wondrous
Basically its sending stones that let you communicate telepathically

That's all there is.

[Misterwhisper]

So everyone who just took warlock for 2 levels and left can ha e 8 eldritch blasts for 1d10 +5, every round later

Who need quicken on the beat cantrip in the game, just spend some good and give it to everyone.

It seems like all the time they come out with more reasons for everyone to dip 2 levels of warlock: hexblade first and now this.you can make a very competitive character out of just hexblade 2 with these bracers and it does not even matter what the other levels are.

My rogue is quite pissed.

He has to find a way to get off sneak attack, to be able to get his 10d6 + 7 attack off. And it is all or nothing 1 attack.

That is 42 is damage a turn

Any build that just takes warlock 2 and gets those bracers will be doing:

1d10 + 5 damage 8 times around, with 8 attack rolls so much more reliable.

That over 80 damage a round, with no need for any set up other than one item.

I guess all that work my 17 swashbuckler did is pointless now. I will just take warlock 2 and be instantly better.

Cantrip action surge in an item with no limit on use is stupid.

Either the people that wrote the book just do not care about balance in the least or they suck at their job.

[jaappleton]

So everyone who just took warlock for 2 levels and left can ha e 8 eldritch blasts for 1d10 +5, every round later

Who need quicken on the beat cantrip in the game, just spend some good and give it to everyone.

It seems like all the time they come out with more reasons for everyone to dip 2 levels of warlock: hexblade first and now this.you can make a very competitive character out of just hexblade 2 with these bracers and it does not even matter what the other levels are.

My rogue is quite pissed.

He has to find a way to get off sneak attack, to be able to get his 10d6 + 7 attack off. And it is all or nothing 1 attack.

That is 42 is damage a turn

Any build that just takes warlock 2 and gets those bracers will be doing:

1d10 + 5 damage 8 times around, with 8 attack rolls so much more reliable.

That over 80 damage a round, with no need for any set up other than one item.

I guess all that work my 17 swashbuckler did is pointless now. I will just take warlock 2 and be instantly better.

Cantrip action surge in an item with no limit on use is stupid.

Either the people that wrote the book just do not care about balance in the least or they suck at their job.

It also applies to SCAG cantrips, like Booming Blade...

[jaappleton]

One thing I thought was pretty interesting?

No Feats. No new Feats at all.

It seems weird in retrospect, I figured maybe they'd have some in compensation for the bonus Guild spells available to spellcasters. But nope.

[Misterwhisper]

[QUOTE=jaappleton;23498381]One thing I thought was pretty interesting?

No Feats. No new Feats at all.

It seems weird in retrospect, I figured maybe they'd have some in compensation for the bonus Guild spells available to spellcasters. But nope.[/QUOTE

I was not surprised at all.

Martial bonuses are “optional” so they do t have to ever care about them.

Bonus spell options are mandatory.

Full have trouble in melee, first book gives cantrips that also gives a free weapon attack.

Justification was that people with no extra attack needed a bonus, thus why bards didn’t get it.

No ready action interrupt any more or any way to stop casting.

Mage slayer is in the book but no caster will ever fall for it if they know you have it.


Just add the line that the bracers do not work on eldritch blast and it works great.

Or they could have just done what they were suggested to do years ago. Don’t make eldritch blast a spell, make it a class ability like sneak attack.

[Misterwhisper]

WTF is This? Another buff to Sorcerer and Warlock? It's uncommon.

Sorcerer and Warlock dominates the game.

I truly dislike. Because all DM will try nerf them.

How many hours til you are banned this time?

Also the spell is not cast for free, you still have to spend the slot.

It is good for all casters, and wizards will make that check much easier.

[jaappleton]

Easier? Did you know Guidance Spell and Enhance Ability? The Sorcerer has better skill check than the Wizard. Also, The Divine Soul Sorcerer list is far superior than wizard list.

Wizards have a lot of prepared spells. It doesn't chance almost nothing for them.

Whatever, It's broken to Sorcerer, specially for them.

It’s specifically an Arcane check, that’s why Wizards will have an easier time.

And Wizards that want to abuse it may MC Bard or Rogue for Expertise and have a really easy time.

[ATHATH]

So everyone who just took warlock for 2 levels and left can ha e 8 eldritch blasts for 1d10 +5, every round later

Who need quicken on the beat cantrip in the game, just spend some good and give it to everyone.

It seems like all the time they come out with more reasons for everyone to dip 2 levels of warlock: hexblade first and now this.you can make a very competitive character out of just hexblade 2 with these bracers and it does not even matter what the other levels are.

My rogue is quite pissed.

He has to find a way to get off sneak attack, to be able to get his 10d6 + 7 attack off. And it is all or nothing 1 attack.

That is 42 is damage a turn

Any build that just takes warlock 2 and gets those bracers will be doing:

1d10 + 5 damage 8 times around, with 8 attack rolls so much more reliable.

That over 80 damage a round, with no need for any set up other than one item.

I guess all that work my 17 swashbuckler did is pointless now. I will just take warlock 2 and be instantly better.

Cantrip action surge in an item with no limit on use is stupid.

Either the people that wrote the book just do not care about balance in the least or they o suck at their job.
If you pick up Repelling Blast as well, things start getting really disgusting.

[Joe the Rat]

If you pick up Repelling Blast as well, things start getting really disgusting.

That's why you need Eldritch Spear or Distant Spell.

Repel, repel, repel, repel, repel, grasp of hadar, repel, repel

[JNAProductions]

Six attacks are not six hits.

And that works in a massive open field-not as much in a dungeon, or a forest, or a town, or...

[JNAProductions]

One HP a round is not insurmountable.

Not by any stretch of the imagination.

[JNAProductions]

And then you get knocked to zero, and if the enemy is a Fighter, they get two more attacks (with advantage) each inflicting two failed death saves.

[JNAProductions]

Fighter 11.
Three attacks a round, at +11 to hit, against AC of maybe 16. 80% hit rate. 55% with SS on.
That’s 7.6 damage per attack without SS, 10.725 with.
A sorcerer warlock multiclass has maybe 80 HP.
So that’s... three rounds to knock it to zero, then close in and shoot at point blank to kill.

That doesnt even include action surge or archetypes.

[JNAProductions]

+5 Dex, +4 prof, +2 archery.

AC 18 does make sense, but doesn’t change the numbers a ton.

And if you cast shield every round, you will run out of slots VErY FAST.

Edit: and your build has only +9 versus AC 17, for a 60% hit rate. Admittedly, the damage die is a bit bigger, but quickening every round will burn your slots super fast too.

[JNAProductions]

Assuming you get enough downtime.

Assuming you never want to cast a spell above 5th level.

Assuming you never take a hit and drop concentration on Haste (which stuns you).

Assuming they don’t just pop a few shots off, make you waste your spells, fall back, and repeat two minutes later.

And you can’t use both Distant and Quicken on the same spell.

[JNAProductions]

Distant and empower is fine.

Distant and quicken is not.

And if your build gets a good item, so will mine. Eleven Accuracy with oathbow is hard to beat.

3 attacks, with super advantage and +11 to hit. 72.5% hit rate, 14% crit.
7.5 damage per attack, on average. 22.5 a round.
Increase that once haste goes down.

[JNAProductions]

With +6 and advantage, making three saves a round...

Okay, no, good chance of keeping it.

How did you get Warcaster though?

And where did you get all the magic items? This build has one.

Oh, also, you would then have disadvantage on attacks, for being prone.

[JNAProductions]

Yes, but then you only have a Charisma if 18 or are a Variant Human, meaning night time is your worst enemy.

And again-good luck on anything but an open field.

[JNAProductions]

When you have only around 80 HP, 22 DPR is a big threat.

[Kepi]

When you have only around 80 HP, 22 DPR is a big threat.

80 HP, Aid level 5, It's 25 HP + Inspire Leadership feat +20. (Or close)
It's around 125 HP, healing spells, Sanctuary Spell, High AC, Regenerate Spell (This one is broken).
Good lucky.

You have 22 DPR if you have advantage. But, It won't happen.

[JNAProductions]

So it’s 5-6 rounds instead of 3-4.

Considering the tactics presented... hardly a big deal.

[8wGremlin]

I think an Orzhov warlock might be fun:
I like the bolded spells

adding:
Cantrip: friends, guidance
1st command, illusory script
2nd enthrall, ray of enfeeblement, zone of truth
3rd bestow curse, speak with dead, spirit guardians
4th blight, death ward, Leomund’s secret chest
5th geas

[Mana Opal]

I think an Orzhov warlock might be fun:
I like the bolded spells

adding:
Cantrip: friends, guidance
1st command, illusory script
2nd enthrall, ray of enfeeblement, zone of truth
3rd bestow curse, speak with dead, spirit guardians
4th blight, death ward, Leomund’s secret chest
5th geas

Assuming that you're going on the straight and narrow with the thematics, both the Pact of the Celestial and the Pact of the Undying fit the Orzhov. Just, be aware that even the angels will likely see you as a mere pawn (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=366278)... And people said that the Pact of the Celestial was how you avoided being an edgy Warlock!

[Alexwellace]

Do Spore Druids still have a set of Circle Spells, or do they just use the Golgari guild spell list? Or would they even have access to both? I'm playing a Spore Druid but *not* in the Ravnica setting so I'm just wondering what spells I'd have access to.

[Prince Vine]

You would have your circle spells.

[Louro]

80 HP, Aid level 5, It's 25 HP + Inspire Leadership feat +20. (Or close)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think temp HP don't stack.

[jaappleton]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think temp HP don't stack.

You’d be correct.

[Misterwhisper]

Aid isn't temp HP.

So, inspire leadership and Aid stack.

I hate to say it but Drako is right on this one.

[Grey Watcher]

...

Channel Divinity no longer prones,

...

Dang, there goes my idea of yelling "Kneel before Zod!" whenever I use that Channel Divinity. :-P

[jaappleton]

Dang, there goes my idea of yelling "Kneel before Zod!" whenever I use that Channel Divinity. :-P

I had an idea of mixing it with Matt Mercer's gunslinger Fighter archetype, yelling "EVERYBODY GET DOWN!" as you fire off a round into the air.

Ah, well.

We can still totally make Judge Dredd, though!

"I AM THE LAW!"

[Grey Watcher]

I had an idea of mixing it with Matt Mercer's gunslinger Fighter archetype, yelling "EVERYBODY GET DOWN!" as you fire off a round into the air.

Ah, well.

We can still totally make Judge Dredd, though!

"I AM THE LAW!"

Player 1: I shoot my gun at the ceiling and Channel Divinity to force everyone in the bank to get down!

Player 2: Wait, don't you have to present your holy symbol to Channel?

Player 1: My holy symbol just so happens to be a firing gun.

I honestly think if I'm ever DMing and someone wants to use Order, I'd houserule some version of the pronation back in. It's probably OP, but it's just so much fun!

[solidork]

So, if you're a centaur Ancients paladin, do you turn yourself when you use your Channel Divinity: Turn the Faithless?

This came up in a oneshot where I played a Satyr who was an Ancients paladin and we decided that while you technically would, it was dumb so we ignored it.

[Mana Opal]

So, if you're a centaur Ancients paladin, do you turn yourself when you use your Channel Divinity: Turn the Faithless?

This came up in a oneshot where I played a Satyr who was an Ancients paladin and we decided that while you technically would, it was dumb so we ignored it.

Alternatively, keep it and just play the character as a coward who runs off at the sight of their own overwhelming power? Definitely more for a one-shot game than a true campaign, to say the least. Definitely a curious find, though!

[Naanomi]

So, if you're a centaur Ancients paladin, do you turn yourself when you use your Channel Divinity: Turn the Faithless?

This came up in a oneshot where I played a Satyr who was an Ancients paladin and we decided that while you technically would, it was dumb so we ignored it.
In a similar situation; my setting tends to have all major churches ‘hallowed’... an inconvenience for a centaur to be sure

[JackPhoenix]

The centaur is propably the stupidest conversion of D&D creature into PC race in 5e, and that's saying something after Volo's.

[Misterwhisper]

The centaur is propably the stupidest conversion of D&D creature into PC race in 5e, and that's saying something after Volo's.

I find it odd how often they stick to their guns about some points of gaming philosophy but completely ignore it in others.

ALL AC WILL BE STAT + ARMOR + MAYBE SHIELD:

The first expansion book they come out with has Blade Singer which adds 2 Stats + Armor.

BOUND ACCURACY EVERYTHING IS X+Y AND STAYS IN THIS RANGE.

In the core book itself they have Pass Without Trace that adds +TEN to the roll, and SS/GWM that add +TEN to Damage.

However, the idea of WE WILL NEVER HAVE LARGE RACES, that one they stick with no matter how stupid it looks.

[Sception]

The centaur is propably the stupidest conversion of D&D creature into PC race in 5e, and that's saying something after Volo's.

But is it the worst in D&D history? Because the 4e pixie was a kind of... /out there/ mechanical implementation of the concept. Then again, I actually kind of liked the 4e pixie, clunky as it was, and I have a hard time imagining how or why anyone would like this version of the centaur.

[Grey Watcher]

I find it odd how often they stick to their guns about some points of gaming philosophy but completely ignore it in others.

ALL AC WILL BE STAT + ARMOR + MAYBE SHIELD:

The first expansion book they come out with has Blade Singer which adds 2 Stats + Armor.

BOUND ACCURACY EVERYTHING IS X+Y AND STAYS IN THIS RANGE.

In the core book itself they have Pass Without Trace that adds +TEN to the roll, and SS/GWM that add +TEN to Damage.

However, the idea of WE WILL NEVER HAVE LARGE RACES, that one they stick with no matter how stupid it looks.

I'm genuinely surprised they were willing to have on-demand flight races, but not large ones. I mean, I get that having a Large PC would be a grand inconvenience when you're exploring things built on the scale of Medium- or Small-sized creatures, and players make up a far bigger portion of their customer base than DM's, but that still feels like not enough reason, given that they can, as they did with flying creatures, just put an asterix saying "This is probably going to suck for you".

What I thought was even sillier than a Medium Centaur was Volo's Bugbears: They're medium, but they have Powerful Build (carrying capacity as a Large creature) AND Long-Limbed (+5 foot reach), despite MM Bugbears being Medium and having no such bonuses. Basically, "you have all the benefits of being large, for no discernable reason, but you'll be medium and you will like it!"

That said, I recalled, as I type, that there is one solid reason why Large PCs are problematic. The most generous grappling and pushing type stuff allows you to do stuff to creatures up to one size category larger than you. If you're Large and get hit with Enlarge, you're now Huge. Since they folded Colossal into Gargantuan, "up to one size category larger" is now "literally anything".

DM: You watch in horror and hear the deafening shriek of twisting metal as the 300 foot tall colossus starts to move.

Centaur PC: I drink a Potion of Growth and I grapple it!

DM: It's literally the size of a skyscraper! You can't grapple it!

And then the entire gaming session ground to a halt as friendships were broken over rules-lawyering.


So, if you're a centaur Ancients paladin, do you turn yourself when you use your Channel Divinity: Turn the Faithless?

This is my latest favorite thing!

[Misterwhisper]

I'm genuinely surprised they were willing to have on-demand flight races, but not large ones. I mean, I get that having a Large PC would be a grand inconvenience when you're exploring things built on the scale of Medium- or Small-sized creatures, and players make up a far bigger portion of their customer base than DM's, but that still feels like not enough reason, given that they can, as they did with flying creatures, just put an asterix saying "This is probably going to suck for you".

What I thought was even sillier than a Medium Centaur was Volo's Bugbears: They're medium, but they have Powerful Build (carrying capacity as a Large creature) AND Long-Limbed (+5 foot reach), despite MM Bugbears being Medium and having no such bonuses. Basically, "you have all the benefits of being large, for no discernable reason, but you'll be medium and you will like it!"

That said, I recalled, as I type, that there is one solid reason why Large PCs are problematic. The most generous grappling and pushing type stuff allows you to do stuff to creatures up to one size category larger than you. If you're Large and get hit with Enlarge, you're now Huge. Since they folded Colossal into Gargantuan, "up to one size category larger" is now "literally anything".

DM: You watch in horror and hear the deafening shriek of twisting metal as the 300 foot tall colossus starts to move.

Centaur PC: I drink a Potion of Growth and I grapple it!

DM: It's literally the size of a skyscraper! You can't grapple it!

And then the entire gaming session ground to a halt as friendships were broken over rules-lawyering.



This is my latest favorite thing!

And yet, Repelling Blast has no size considerations.

300 ft tall colossus of Adamantine? Whatever, my 25lb, Halfling warlock will shove it around with every little eldritch ray like you were just a chair on the ground.

[solidork]

I would like to add to the discussion that my group has played through all of Princes of the Apocalypse and has transitioned to a crazy mashup of SKT+HotDQ+Rise of Tiamat with a homebrewed dragon PC class that is large size, and the only reason it's really worked is that the class has an alternate humanoid form. It takes 10 minutes to switch between dragon and humanoid (or you can switch back to dragon as an action but you get a level of exhaustion), so it's not like we just get to ignore the problem.

[JackPhoenix]

BOUND ACCURACY EVERYTHING IS X+Y AND STAYS IN THIS RANGE.

In the core book itself they have Pass Without Trace that adds +TEN to the roll, and SS/GWM that add +TEN to Damage.

Though skills are subject to BA, damage isn't, so SS/GWM isn't problematic in regards to bounded accuracy.


However, the idea of WE WILL NEVER HAVE LARGE RACES, that one they stick with no matter how stupid it looks.

It's not just the size thing, it's also the fey creature type. Considering even the Warforged (I know, I know, not 100% "official 5e race") have humanoid type for balance purposes, that decision is very strange, especially considering MM centaurs are monstrosities, not fey. And eladrin are humanoids as PC race, but fey as NPCs in MToF.

But there are medium-sized equine creatures: Donkeys. That means Ravnican centaurs aren't half-humans, half-horses, they are half-humans, half-asses. Half-assed.

[Citadel97501]

Though skills are subject to BA, damage isn't, so SS/GWM isn't problematic in regards to bounded accuracy.

It's not just the size thing, it's also the fey creature type. Considering even the Warforged (I know, I know, not 100% "official 5e race") have humanoid type for balance purposes, that decision is very strange, especially considering MM centaurs are monstrosities, not fey. And eladrin are humanoids as PC race, but fey as NPCs in MToF.

But there are medium-sized equine creatures: Donkeys. That means Ravnican centaurs aren't half-humans, half-horses, they are half-humans, half-asses. Half-assed.

I was joking about them being ponies to a fellow dm the other day, and really making fun of an idea someone mentioned about a Barbarian Centaur, Eeyore with rabies, is beloved by Elmyra...

[Tectorman]

But is it the worst in D&D history? Because the 4e pixie was a kind of... /out there/ mechanical implementation of the concept. Then again, I actually kind of liked the 4e pixie, clunky as it was, and I have a hard time imagining how or why anyone would like this version of the centaur.

I absolutely love the Centaur being Medium (though I am apprehensive about the whole Fey thing), so I'll explain why.

There's been discussion in this thread about Centaurs being Fey. Specifically, how this makes them immune to low-level effects that PCs would otherwise have to worry about (spells that only work on Humanoids) and how it makes them vulnerable to effects that PCs of any level are just generally not supposed to be on the wrong side of (Protection from Good and Evil, Hallow, etc.). But why do we care?

Because a game element doesn't just live or die by how well it reflects the in-world reality; it also has to play nice within the game itself. Imagine for a moment the Centaur being Fey was completely in-sync with the lore, the same as Eladrin (or heck, the way Elves and Gnomes were in 4E). We would still have had the concerns expressed in this thread because of how 5E handles Fey as a creature type (as opposed to 4E, where otherworldly origins like Fey or Immortal or Elemental didn't really do much).

So how does this translate to the size issue? Because of how 5E handles tactical combat and creature sizes. Were the game 100% "Theater of the Mind" and creatures defined not into one of six distinct sizes but simply by height and bulk (i.e., having the difference between seven feet tall and eight feet tall be no more or less important than the difference between nine feet tall and ten feet tall), Centaurs being what-we'd-refer-to-as-Large-size-were-Large-size-a-thing wouldn't be a problem at all. But that's not this game. This game says that if you're Large size, you get to worry about having potentially-twelve opponents surround you. And you being one person surrounding an opponent means that, unless you're on a diagonal, you take up a space another ally could have been in.

That's not something I ever want to have to put up with on a constant basis (occasionally due to Enlarge? sure, since that's temporary); it doesn't play well with the rest of the game. Not because of what's going on in-universe, but because of the rules artifacts that crop up when it gets translated into game mechanics.

Hence, Large-size Centaurs are something I'd never touch with a ten-foot pole. To this day, I remember thinking the racial class for Centaurs back in 3.0's Savage Species was awesome because it let you start out Medium, only to be disappointed that you couldn't multiclass out until you were done, and 6th-level required you to become Large-size.

And actually, this is one instance where the whole "Fey" thing works for me. It serves to distinguish this Centaur from the Large-size version in the MM, and any glaring differences just get lumped into that overall change. Not to mention, "Faerie Centaur" just seems to naturally have a "diminutive" connotation for me.

[Grey Watcher]

But there are medium-sized equine creatures: Donkeys. That means Ravnican centaurs aren't half-humans, half-horses, they are half-humans, half-asses. Half-assed.

OK, I think that's the bow on the whole medium-sized-centaurs thing. We can call that case closed. :smalltongue:

[Willie the Duck]

What I thought was even sillier than a Medium Centaur was Volo's Bugbears: They're medium, but they have Powerful Build (carrying capacity as a Large creature) AND Long-Limbed (+5 foot reach), despite MM Bugbears being Medium and having no such bonuses. Basically, "you have all the benefits of being large, for no discernable reason, but you'll be medium and you will like it!"

It seems that there must have been some real love for the idea that large creatures can (inherently to being large, not to being said creatures) use large weapons and do significantly more damage. Not sure why (perhaps so that characters under the effects of an enlarge spell or potion can tap into it). They could have simply left that part out of being large and large would mostly be identical to what a bugbear gets.

[Sception]

stuff

All i can say to this is that maybe you dont actually want a playable centaur in your games, if you think an actual playable centaur would be that disruptive.

Yes, large PCs present in game hassles, but then again so do flying PCs, so flying OC races just come with a warning that says 'maybe dont allow this if it would be a problem in your games'. They didnt just replace flight with a bonus to jump checks for the pc race versions, because if they did that then what's even the point?

That's basically what all these medium PC versions of otherwise large creatures do. They undercut the fantasy of being the thing so badly that they might as well not have bothered to begin with.

Frankly, this official PC centaur race is a /worse/ implementation of a centaur than if you just played 'counts as' with a wood elf.

[Ralanr]

Sad to see martial not really get anything fun beyond some magical items. Not even new subclasses?

I’ll have to read through it myself before I buy it. Thankfully the Barnes and Noble I go to doesn’t care that I read through the merchandise before buying.

[Grey Watcher]

It seems that there must have been some real love for the idea that large creatures can (inherently to being large, not to being said creatures) use large weapons and do significantly more damage. Not sure why (perhaps so that characters under the effects of an enlarge spell or potion can tap into it). They could have simply left that part out of being large and large would mostly be identical to what a bugbear gets.

Indeed. If Small creatures just use the same weapons as their Medium sized counterparts (ie there's no longer such a thing as a "small shortsword" (which happens to be identical to a dagger in terms of weight, damage, etc.), there's just a "dagger", then why shouldn't Large creatures just use the same weapons as Medium creatures with a footnote along the lines of "You may use any weapon that lacks the heavy property one handed" and/or "you treat any weapon without the heavy property as a finesse weapon (and maybe "You can't use weapons with the light and/or finesse property(ies), if you insist on simulating that a human's dagger is just too small for a Large creature to wield effectively," but that really sucks for Large Rogues and the like.)

EDIT: Wow, the only non-heavy two-handed weapon is a Greatclub. And my solution as written gives you weird results like operating a bow with one hand. (I'm just picturing them bracing the bow against their forefinger and working the string with their thumb....)

And since Centaurs have arms and hands the same size as humans', you could just have their entry say "You use weapons as though you were a Medium creature."

That said, I think it resolves the contradiction in my head enough to think of Ravnican Centaurs as being their own separate species. Kinda like that whole UA thing a while back with the seafaring Minotaurs; yeah, it makes sense in this specific setting, but feels weird when you generalize it.

[GreyBlack]

Sad to see martial not really get anything fun beyond some magical items. Not even new subclasses?

I’ll have to read through it myself before I buy it. Thankfully the Barnes and Noble I go to doesn’t care that I read through the merchandise before buying.

It's called "Magic: the Gathering". Not "Martials: the Gathering."

[Ralanr]

It's called "Magic: the Gathering". Not "Martials: the Gathering."

Not every creature in Magic is a spell caster. Arguably you don’t even need to be a spellcaster to be a planeswalker (though mechanically you can’t reproduce a lot of planeswalker abilities without magic).

[JackPhoenix]

Not every creature in Magic is a spell caster. Arguably you don’t even need to be a spellcaster to be a planeswalker (though mechanically you can’t reproduce a lot of planeswalker abilities without magic).

Every planeswalker can manipulate mana, making them all spellcasters.

[Ralanr]

Every planeswalker can manipulate mana, making them all spellcasters.

I am aware, but one doesn’t need the ability to manipulate mana to become a planeswalker. Mana manipulation is often something they get from it if they didn’t know how to before.

Pretty sure Ajani wasn’t a spellcaster until his spark ignited. Actually I think most of the white planeswalker were mundane/not very spellcaster like before they ignited.

[JackPhoenix]

I am aware, but one doesn’t need the ability to manipulate mana to become a planeswalker. Mana manipulation is often something they get from it if they didn’t know how to before.

Pretty sure Ajani wasn’t a spellcaster until his spark ignited. Actually I think most of the white planeswalker were mundane/not very spellcaster like before they ignited.

"Ajani had always shown potential as a mage and healer, but had assumed his main calling was to be a warrior in Jazal's service. The day that Ajani's brother was assassinated by unknown forces was the day that Ajani's Planeswalker spark ignited, and everything changed."

Elspeth is closer, and it's unclear if the "powerful spell" she used when her spark ignited was a cause, side effect or coincidence, but she was 13 at the time, so it's possible her magical talent just didn't have the time to show.

Even other "martial" planeswalkers... Garruk, Gideon, Samut... knew at least some magic before they became planeswalkers. Weak caster is still a caster.

[Ralanr]

"Ajani had always shown potential as a mage and healer, but had assumed his main calling was to be a warrior in Jazal's service. The day that Ajani's brother was assassinated by unknown forces was the day that Ajani's Planeswalker spark ignited, and everything changed."

Elspeth is closer, and it's unclear if the "powerful spell" she used when her spark ignited was a cause, side effect or coincidence, but she was 13 at the time, so it's possible her magical talent just didn't have the time to show.

Even other "martial" planeswalkers... Garruk, Gideon, Samut... knew at least some magic before they became planeswalkers. Weak caster is still a caster.

Fair, due to the nature of Magic, planeswalkers have to be casters (though that isn’t a spark requirement imo) because they need to manipulate mana. But a lot of creatures in magic are not actually magical, usually winning by brute force or numbers rather than spells.

It still feels weird that Ravnica doesn’t offer martial anything new, not even a partially magic subclass for some mundane classes.

Honestly I’m gonna get less and less excited for stuff if they keep not adding new stuff for things I like. Yeah I’m only one person, I can’t speak for everyone and if this stuff sells well then more will come anyway.

Guess I’ll just be twiddling my thumbs until I can play 5e again.

[Tectorman]

All i can say to this is that maybe you dont actually want a playable centaur in your games, if you think an actual playable centaur would be that disruptive.

Yes, large PCs present in game hassles, but then again so do flying PCs, so flying OC races just come with a warning that says 'maybe dont allow this if it would be a problem in your games'. They didnt just replace flight with a bonus to jump checks for the pc race versions, because if they did that then what's even the point?

That's basically what all these medium PC versions of otherwise large creatures do. They undercut the fantasy of being the thing so badly that they might as well not have bothered to begin with.

Frankly, this official PC centaur race is a /worse/ implementation of a centaur than if you just played 'counts as' with a wood elf.

No, I do want a playable centaur in my games. I just don't see "Large-size" as a necessary integral component of "playable centaur".

For example: https://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2018/08/benders-game-1.jpg

Except for the "one eye" thing, Leela is assuredly a centaur. Compare her to Fry (still a human who does ride her in a couple of scenes), and she is neither sufficiently tall enough or long enough to warrant the excessive jump to a Large size.

Another example: http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/fantasia/images/35769019/title/centaurs-centaurettes-photo

Centaur? Yep. Human? Yep (well, the god Bacchus, but given the size of everything else, he's easily a stand-in for human). Is she tall enough or long enough to warrant Large-size?

Heck, we can even go to the actual minis.

Here's an unpainted centaur mini: https://www.ebay.com/p/D-d-NMU-Centaur-W4-WizKids-WZK72575/3010998587?iid=273483910461&chn=ps

It comes unpainted and, yes, with an attachable Large-size base. I'm having a friend who's good with minis take off the human torso in favor of the upper torso of another mini that represents the character better (specifically, an elf wizard). The elf wizard mini also came with an attachable base, that base being Medium-size.

And lo and behold, when I put the centaur mini on the Medium base just to see whether it would fit, it did. Is there some overlap? Yes. Just like with a Goliath mini, it's taller than the assumed 5x5x5-ish cube that Medium-size creature is assumed to occupy and has body parts or weapons sticking out the sides. Not enough to make the Goliath suffer the consequences of being Large-size and not enough to make the centaur suffer those consequences.

[Silkensword]

It's called "Magic: the Gathering". Not "Martials: the Gathering."

can I steal that for my signature?

[Misterwhisper]

can I steal that for my signature?

I have always said: It is Wizards Of The Coast, not Fighters Of The Plains.

[JackPhoenix]

I have always said: It is Wizards Of The Coast, not Fighters Of The Plains.

Wouldn't forest be better enviroment for fighters? Easy source of things to hit their enemies with, and plenty of cover and obscurement to screw over wizards' options.

[8wGremlin]

Wouldn't forest be a better environment for fighters? Easy source of things to hit their enemies with, and plenty of cover and obscurement to screw over Wizards' options.
Nah its Rangers of the Forest

[Misterwhisper]

Rangers of the well, sorry not enough people actually play a ranger to get a spot

[Sigreid]

Rangers of the well, sorry not enough people actually play a ranger to get a spot

This is funny because at my table there is always a ranger. It would be truthful to say rangers and rogues are the only classes always represented.

[Misterwhisper]

This is funny because at my table there is always a ranger. It would be truthful to say rangers and rogues are the only classes always represented.

We always, 100% of the time will have a paladin.
Every single game has a bard, sometimes more than one.
Never once have had a warlock other than the one I played.
Nobody has ever played a monk.

Then again our games are always gm vs player mentality unless I am running, and they are all also 15mad.

[Azreal]

We always, 100% of the time will have a paladin.
Every single game has a bard, sometimes more than one.
Never once have had a warlock other than the one I played.
Nobody has ever played a monk.

Then again our games are always gm vs player mentality unless I am running, and they are all also 15mad.

I also always have a paladin at my tables. Their nova potential and the aura are too enticing when we don’t usually have combats to use up resources. Not to mention people loving the RP of a Knight sworn to a higher power.

[Sigreid]

I also always have a paladin at my tables. Their nova potential and the aura are too enticing when we don’t usually have combats to use up resources. Not to mention people loving the RP of a Knight sworn to a higher power.

We haven't had a paladin yet.

[GreyBlack]

can I steal that for my signature?

Absolutely.

[ATHATH]

Order Cleric 1 might be a decent dip for Paladins, as it'd let them make 3 attacks AND cast a Bonus Action spell in a single turn, unlike dual wielding, which would just let them make 2 attacks and either cast a Bonus Action spell OR make a third attack (which comes with all of the restrictions and downsides of dual wielding, including being unable to dual wield while using a shield under most circumstances and not getting your ability modifier added to the damage of that third attack). Then again, it competes with Shield (you DID dip Hexblade, right?) for your Reaction and comes from a different book than the Hexblade, so it probably won't see much use/play in AL (unless you're playing a low-CHA Paladin for some reason).

[Mr.Spastic]

Does anybody know what spells the spore druid gets? I know the get chill touch from the leak, but I haven't been able to find their higher level spells.

[jaappleton]

Does anybody know what spells the spore druid gets? I know the get chill touch from the leak, but I haven't been able to find their higher level spells.

Ask and you shall receive.

Blindness/Deafness, Gentle Repose
Anímate Dead, Gaseous Form
Blight, Confusion
Cloudkill, Contagion

[Mr.Spastic]

Ask and you shall receive.

Blindness/Deafness, Gentle Repose
Anímate Dead, Gaseous Form
Blight, Confusion
Cloudkill, Contagion

And you're complaining about spore druids being nerfed? Those are some awesome spells. I'll admit that I am partial to animate dead, but this really makes you a formidable summoner.

Spells aside I think the subclass is awesome. I have to disagree with you that they aren't good. The extra hit points almost stack comparably with Moon Druid. The reaction ability is really nice to because druids don't have a lot of options for that. It seems to make a great all round caster with a lot of minions.

[jaappleton]

And you're complaining about spore druids being nerfed? Those are some awesome spells. I'll admit that I am partial to animate dead, but this really makes you a formidable summoner.

Spells aside I think the subclass is awesome. I have to disagree with you that they aren't good. The extra hit points almost stack comparably with Moon Druid. The reaction ability is really nice to because druids don't have a lot of options for that. It seems to make a great all round caster with a lot of minions.

Compared to the UA? It’s undeniable they got smashed with the nerf bat.

-Running out of the temp HP now causes you to lose your fungal form
-Spores damage now requires a saving throw
-Melee Weapon attack’s still deals Poison damage, the worst damage type
-Fungal Infestation has a limit on Wis Mod per long rest

Spores damage is now Necrotic, I believe it was Poison before. So I acknowledge dealings Necrotic is a big upgrade over Poison.

It got hit with the nerf bat, that isn’t a question. Now, that’s not to say it didn’t NEED to get nerfed.... In the UA most of its abilities didn’t require a save. Now they do, and honestly, they should require a save.

I think it’d have been a big boost to have the extra 1d6 Melee damage also apply to Cantrips. Because even Thorn Whip doesn’t apply as written. What non-moon Druid is in Melee to begin with? You get Medium Armor (Hide Only!) and Shields, that isn’t enough to warrant wading into Melee.

If you want to have Druids get a Melee fighting form, they should’ve copied the Bladesinger. Instead it’s this... odd gish style thing that doesn’t do anything particularly well.

[Misterwhisper]

Compared to the UA? It’s undeniable they got smashed with the nerf bat.

-Running out of the temp HP now causes you to lose your fungal form
-Spores damage now requires a saving throw
-Melee Weapon attack’s still deals Poison damage, the worst damage type
-Fungal Infestation has a limit on Wis Mod per long rest

Spores damage is now Necrotic, I believe it was Poison before. So I acknowledge dealings Necrotic is a big upgrade over Poison.

It got hit with the nerf bat, that isn’t a question. Now, that’s not to say it didn’t NEED to get nerfed.... In the UA most of its abilities didn’t require a save. Now they do, and honestly, they should require a save.

I think it’d have been a big boost to have the extra 1d6 Melee damage also apply to Cantrips. Because even Thorn Whip doesn’t apply as written. What non-moon Druid is in Melee to begin with? You get Medium Armor (Hide Only!) and Shields, that isn’t enough to warrant wading into Melee.

If you want to have Druids get a Melee fighting form, they should’ve copied the Bladesinger. Instead it’s this... odd gish style thing that doesn’t do anything particularly well.

I still want my elemental storm Druid.
Then again I am still waiting on a duelist subclass. Swashbucklee was close then they ripped it off to make blades bard.

[Mr.Spastic]

Compared to the UA? It’s undeniable they got smashed with the nerf bat.

-Running out of the temp HP now causes you to lose your fungal form
-Spores damage now requires a saving throw
-Melee Weapon attack’s still deals Poison damage, the worst damage type
-Fungal Infestation has a limit on Wis Mod per long rest

Spores damage is now Necrotic, I believe it was Poison before. So I acknowledge dealings Necrotic is a big upgrade over Poison.

It got hit with the nerf bat, that isn’t a question. Now, that’s not to say it didn’t NEED to get nerfed.... In the UA most of its abilities didn’t require a save. Now they do, and honestly, they should require a save.

I think it’d have been a big boost to have the extra 1d6 Melee damage also apply to Cantrips. Because even Thorn Whip doesn’t apply as written. What non-moon Druid is in Melee to begin with? You get Medium Armor (Hide Only!) and Shields, that isn’t enough to warrant wading into Melee.

If you want to have Druids get a Melee fighting form, they should’ve copied the Bladesinger. Instead it’s this... odd gish style thing that doesn’t do anything particularly well.

While they did get nerfed, I think your to focused on the fact that fungal form gives melee benefits. Just because you get a boost to melee doesn't mean you have to be melee focused. The temp hit points seems to be there more so you can get in range with your spores and infestation. I think it's built more as a up close caster. The extra HP will take hits for you while you walk around casting support spells on allies and commanding your zombies to hit things. It is a subclass that utilizes the whole action economy and is better than most land druids IMO.

To give you the short answer, it's not a melee subclass. It's a spellcasting subclass that puts you in melee range to get some sweet benefits.

[jaappleton]

While they did get nerfed, I think your to focused on the fact that fungal form gives melee benefits. Just because you get a boost to melee doesn't mean you have to be melee focused. The temp hit points seems to be there more so you can get in range with your spores and infestation. I think it's built more as a up close caster. The extra HP will take hits for you while you walk around casting support spells on allies and commanding your zombies to hit things. It is a subclass that utilizes the whole action economy and is better than most land druids IMO.

To give you the short answer, it's not a melee subclass. It's a spellcasting subclass that puts you in melee range to get some sweet benefits.

For the sake of clarity, I’ll provide my personal rankings on Druid Circle power levels

Moon / Shepard (depending on the level, Shepard can outshine it with massive summoning benefits)
Dreams (Free Healing is always good, and the lv10 is sweet)
Spores
Land

Land is.... I’m all for bonus spells but the actual benefits aside from those are so niche that the Land Druid is largely wasted.

Back to Spores... I just don’t think Spores, mechanically, has enough of an identity. And that’s a weird thing to say, because I’m typically against pigeonholing archetypes into particular roles.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Spores is utter hot garbage. I enjoy the idea of using Wild Shape for things besides animal forms. I just wish it did more. Or did what it currently does a bit better.

[Sception]

And you're complaining about spore druids being nerfed? Those are some awesome spells. I'll admit that I am partial to animate dead, but this really makes you a formidable summoner.

Animate dead is alright, but its not a substitute for your entire subclass, and given how badly the rest of the spore druid was hit, that's kind of what it's doing, here.

If you're actually playing in ravnica, golgari druids of any circle get access to animate dead as a guild spell, so you can play a real druid subclass and supplement it with animate dead regardless.

[sambojin]

Yeah, the guilds are very nice to druids. Especially moon druids.

Azorius gives Counterspell, the one thing we really couldn't do easily. High level moons doing the transfer into caster form will love it. Ensnaring strike just adds to your "restrain on hit" arsenal, which can be nice depending on some strange stat builds. You'll probably never use compulsion, but it's there for weird and weak fear.

Boros gives plenty of single target/multi-target instant damage (another thing you're not renowned for), a reasonable cantrip, and some healing/buffing. It's like being a Light Cleric, but also a druid, and it's free! And firebolt and sacred flame, so possibly useful cantrip-wise.

Golgari giving animate dead isn't bad, but it's not that great. Semi-permanent summons is nice, and it depends on just how nice it is compared to how your DM plays conjure animals/woodland beings. But hey, skellies with bows *and* hands are probably better than apes/dinos/lizards for ranged utility.

Gruul having compelled duel and shatter and even conjure barrage is pretty good. More lockdown for damage sponging, item damage and instant AoE, all stuff you often don't do (or not like this). Firebolt is nice'ish too.

Orzhov gives you spirit guardians. The one thing that keeps clerics competitive in combat later on just got given to you for free. Almost worth it for that one spell. Also gets bestow curse. This can be fun with some DMs.

Rakdos gives you haste. That's quite a handy spell for someone in your party, and maybe even you if your DM allows a beast attack (not muti-attack) off the action in some forms. Machine gun Giant Spitting Lizards, etc. Or a 4x attack Frilled Deathspitter from "X Marks the Spot - A Planeshift Ixalan Adventure", which is a brutal 1/2CR beast form for non-moons at lvl4 (lvl5 to haste it). Backstory it in :)
Also, firebolt or viscious mockery. Better than your normal stuff in some ways.

Simic having expeditious retreat and enlarge/reduce is pretty good for moons. Become Huge, Medium, Gargantuan or Tiny, in a massive array of forms, even earlier than before. Pretty good with multi-attack forms, or for slipping down tight passages, not to mention the rest of the utility these spells can give to some forms or in some non-wildshaped situations. But that whole "why aren't Centaurs large?" thing, that you often deal with every day, just got a lot easier. As well as bonus action movement/or 2x movement and +2AC on some already very fast forms. And utility. Better than it looks, from spell slots you use for stuff just like this.

[Malaketh]

So, here's some quick details that jumped out at me:

-Order Domain got an overall buff, but the capstone got nerfed to only affect the next attack. At lv6, Enchantment spells can be cast as a Bonus Action. Channel Divinity no longer prones, but any spell (regardless of school) that targets an ally can cause that ally to use a reaction to make a weapon attack. Divine Strike now deals Psychic, not Force.

So just for clarification purposes, as I'll be playing an order domain tomorrow and don't want to get the d&d beyond version, the domain is the same as UA minus the quoted changes?

[jaappleton]

So just for clarification purposes, as I'll be playing an order domain tomorrow and don't want to get the d&d beyond version, the domain is the same as UA minus the quoted changes?

Yes. The bonus spells may be slightly different, I haven’t done a side by side comp. But if they changed, it’s not much of a change at all.

Oh, the CD no longer probes but you can have affected creatures drop something they’re holding.

[ATHATH]

What are the background and background features in this book?

[HappyDaze]

What are the background and background features in this book?
Each Guild gets a background, and everyone in that guild is supposed to start with the same background.

Azorius are cops and their ability is legal authority.
Boros are soldiers and their ability is to access Legion forts and get minor aid and supplies.
Orzhov are organized criminals and their ability lets them apply leverage to others in the syndicate.
Selesnya are a hippie commune and their ability lets them get hidden within the commune and get minor aid.
Rakdos are psychotic carnies and their ability lets them get away with committing minor crimes.


There are five more that I can't recall right now.
EDIT: Here's the rest.

Gruul (?) clans are raiders and their ability allows you to hide and forage in the wilderlands (rubblelands) outside of the city proper.
Golgari are a bunch of necro-mushroom loving weirdos and their ability allows them to move through underground tunnels quickly (like Urchin ability).
Izzit are mad scientists (chemistry/physics/mechanics types) and their ability allows them to get floorplans and learn about structures.
Simic are mad scientists (biology type) and they get a research ability much like Sages.
Dimir are masters of disgues and they get a cover identity as a member of another Guild (but without the special features of that Guild).


There's a video review where a guy goes over pretty much all of the crunch in the book. He'll tell you the backgrounds, the guild spells, the items, etc. I don't think he covered the races yet though, but most of them will only see play in Ravnica (where core book races other than humans, elves, and half elves are not available).

[HappyDaze]

I'm curious about the Religion skill in Ravnica. This is a setting that has almost no religion in it, excepting the Orzhov where the religion is basically a scam to pull in more money and the (demon) Cult of Rakdos. Clerics and paladins exist in several of the Guilds, but they don't really seem to have any religious trappings at all and certainly do not draw power from deities. So, what use is the Religion skill really going to be in Ravnica?

[Asensur]

I'm curious about the Religion skill in Ravnica. This is a setting that has almost no religion in it, excepting the Orzhov where the religion is basically a scam to pull in more money and the (demon) Cult of Rakdos. Clerics and paladins exist in several of the Guilds, but they don't really seem to have any religious trappings at all and certainly do not draw power from deities. So, what use is the Religion skill really going to be in Ravnica?

The Gruul have the Old Ways. And there is a Nephilim cult in Ravnica.

[Sception]

Many of the guilds have a religious component to their beliefs & operation that seemed unfortunately rather downplayed in the book. Particularly orzhov, selesnya, golgari, boros, gruul, & rakdos, and religion should be treated as an important skill for those in or interacting with those guilds, as the religious component of their practice influences their behavior. Additionally, fiends, celestials, and undead are all common on Ravnica, so religion checks to identify strengths and weaknesses of these creatures should be valuable in play.

Per the orzhov in particular, the book goes way overboard in emphasizing the organized crime aspect if the guild, and while it mentions the banking and religious aspect, it seriously inderplays how important those aspects are.

Orzhov is the primary religion of ravnica, nearly a planet-wide state religion, and their primary role is managing the afterlife and souls of one of the most massive populations if any mtg/d&d worlds in a setting where souls do eventually fade, but dont really have any other plane to go to before they do. The city world would be overrun by the screaming hungry ghosts of its teemining mortal populace without the orzhov collecting and ordering them.

Imagine how powerful and wealthy a religion would be if life after death was a basic fact or everyday life, and good standing with that one religion (as defined primarily by monetary contributions to it) determined just how luxurious or restful or toilsome that afterlife was, while no standing at all risking one becoming a wild half mad hungey ghost haunting thise you cared about, at least until some passing demin plucked you from the air for a snack?

Imagine how much more powerful that religion would be if membership were legally mandated to avoid the risk of uncontrolled hordes of ghosts?

And then there's the legitimate banking services. Orzhov is both the central bank of a planet-wide nation state of constant economic activity AND the only common source of personal and business banking services.

Tithes to the Orzhov are obligatory for all citizens of Ravnica, as they are simultaneously the taxes that pay for the maintenance of public order AND the interest payments on your personal debts AND a downpayment towards your personal afterlife's comfort and security. Members of guilds that believe in some form of reincarnation for souls after they fade from existance, mostly the guilds with a green componany to their color alignment, might not buy into orzhov's ghostly rewards, though as likely as not their souls will still be indentured for some years of service to pay off their remaining obligations regardless.

So yeah, orzhov is absolutely a massive organized crime family, but they are a religion first, a bank second, and a criminal organization only third, though admittedly that aspect of the guild has been growing as legal reforms and protections instituted by the arzorius have reduced the profitability of their legitimate activities. Still, while both the religion and the bank are highly exploitative, they are offering legitimate and necessary services that make up the better part (in multiple ways) of the guild's activities. Neither are just scams or fronts, and its annoying that this book kind of presents them that way.

[HappyDaze]

Many of the guilds have a religious component to their beliefs & operation that seemed unfortunately rather downplayed in the book. Particularly orzhov, selesnya, golgari, boros, gruul, & rakdos, and religion should be treated as an important skill for those in or interacting with those guilds, as the religious component of their practice influences their behavior. Additionally, fiends, celestials, and undead are all common on Ravnica, so religion checks to identify strengths and weaknesses of these creatures should be valuable in play.
The book really gives nothing of a religious flavor to most of those groups--especially to the celestials and fiends. In the Ravnica setting given by this book, I'm not really seeing anything in Religion that would make it more appropriate than Arcana or History for dealing with celestials, fiends, and undead.

[Prince Vine]

The book really gives nothing of a religious flavor to most of those groups--especially to the celestials and fiends. In the Ravnica setting given by this book, I'm not really seeing anything in Religion that would make it more appropriate than Arcana or History for dealing with celestials, fiends, and undead.

In all fairness there is really not much religious about demons and devils to begin with, other than they live on the outer planes.

I tend to think some of the monster-knowledge connections are a bit tenuous in current mythology anyway, and even more so when a campaign tweaks anything.

[HappyDaze]

The Gruul have the Old Ways. And there is a Nephilim cult in Ravnica.

I'm reading on the Gruul. Where in the GGR can I find the information on this Nephilim cult?

[Damon_Tor]

Mizzium Apparatus - Uncommon (Sorc, Warlock or Wiz only)
Can be used as an Arcane Focus, can attempt to cast a spell you don't know / have prepared. The spell in question MUST be on your class's spell list, and you must have a spell slot capable of casting it with. Arcana Check, with DC = 10 + Spell Slot used *2 (So a 2nd level spell is 14). Success? Cast it as normal. Fail? Cast a spell on the table shown. (Seems this is where the School of Invention ended up)

Anyone else notice how nicely this pairs with an Arcane Trickster? Expertise in Arcana and Reliable Talent means you have virtually unlimited spell selection, no prep necessary. Sure, you need 1 level of sorc/wiz/warlock to qualify.

[Beechgnome]

Don't have book yet but just noticed a few things from seeing some screen grabs and the monster lists on D&D Beyond:

*The cackler is a CR 1/2 demon, which finally fills the summon lesser demon gap/trap of getting 4 1/2 demons only to discover there were only 1/4 available.

*They may not be Planescape approved, but I am happy to see 5 celestials plus a CR 23 celestial boss, since the 3 previous monster books had just 8 (7+1+0) celestials.

[ATHATH]

Does a Mizzium Apparatus have no uses/day restrictions? Can it be used to cast spells of a level that you don't know spells from (i.e. Confusion when used by a Wizard 6/Cleric 1)? Can it be used to cast spells above 5th level? If not, I could see it being used in some weird multiclass build that tries to get the ability to cast every spell in the game.

Can you "attempt" to cast Shield, then intentionally fail the check so you can cast one of the spells on the table as a reaction?

What ways to get a bonus to Arcana checks do we have? So far, I have having an INT stat of 20 (+5), Guidance (+1d4), proficiency (+6), Expertise (+6), Reliable Talent (minimum roll of 10, but requires a lot of investment in Rogue, denying you access to ninths), and sources of advantage.

[Reziku]

Does a Mizzium Apparatus have no uses/day restrictions? Can it be used to cast spells of a level that you don't know spells from (i.e. Confusion when used by a Wizard 6/Cleric 1)? Can it be used to cast spells above 5th level? If not, I could see it being used in some weird multiclass build that tries to get the ability to cast every spell in the game.

Can you "attempt" to cast Shield, then intentionally fail the check so you can cast one of the spells on the table as a reaction?

What ways to get a bonus to Arcana checks do we have? So far, I have having an INT stat of 20 (+5), Guidance (+1d4), proficiency (+6), Expertise (+6), Reliable Talent (minimum roll of 10, but requires a lot of investment in Rogue, denying you access to ninths), and sources of advantage.

Prodigy feat, Guidance, help action (Simulacrum via wish), helm of intelect.

Done, You don't need invest in rogue. Divine Soul casts cleric, sorcerer and still have metamagic. It's you must.

[stoutstien]

Just got my copy today. If anything the art is amazing.

[KyleG]

Excuse my ignorance but how do all the guides etc work.
So i see the traditional Adventurers league rule is PHB +1 (not that ive figure out what adventurers league is yet)
So Elemental Evil Player's Companion, Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, Volo's Guide to Monsters, Xanathar's Guide to Everything and the Tortle package along with Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes allow you to expand on your character. And i gather that Unearthed Acarna is some sort of testing book/area. And is therefore not supposed to be considered a +1
And then there is Critical Role Content? Ebberon? and now this guide...how do they fit in?

[HappyDaze]

Excuse my ignorance but how do all the guides etc work.
So i see the traditional Adventurers league rule is PHB +1 (not that ive figure out what adventurers league is yet)
So Elemental Evil Player's Companion, Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, Volo's Guide to Monsters, Xanathar's Guide to Everything and the Tortle package along with Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes allow you to expand on your character. And i gather that Unearthed Acarna is some sort of testing book/area. And is therefore not supposed to be considered a +1
And then there is Critical Role Content? Ebberon? and now this guide...how do they fit in?

If you're not playing Adventurer's League then the "+1" rule doesn't matter and you can use whatever source books the DM feels are appropriate.

Unearthed Arcana is material in "beta testing" and not fully official. Use (with DM's permission) at your own risk.

Third party content like Critical Role is just stuff published outside of WotC. Again, whether it gets used or not is up to the DM.

[Damon_Tor]

Prodigy feat, Guidance, help action (Simulacrum via wish), helm of intelect.

Done, You don't need invest in rogue. Divine Soul casts cleric, sorcerer and still have metamagic. It's you must.

Divine Soul has access to the cleric spell list for the purposes of learning new spells. It isn't "your spell list". Unless you'd also like to argue that a bard could cast any spell they want from any class.

[strangebloke]

Spores is a DPR/Necromancy build, and its very good at that. I honestly think this druid has the highest DPR of any of the subclasses.

Without spores form, the druid deals cantrip + halo damage, which is when you get it a 50% damage per turn increase, although it doesn't scale.

With spores form, if you're using something like 'primal savagery' you'll hit for 2d10+1d6 with a 1d6 reaction at level six, and a 1d6 damage aura on at all times at level 10. It's not nearly enough to make you a 'melee' druid. In fact its somewhat lower than what moon druid can do in wildshape and combat wildshape also tends to give you more HP, although 30 THP at 6th level is nothing to sneeze at.

The primary difference is that the spores druid doesn't have to give up casting to do it. If you lose your concentration on barkskin, you can just cast firewall. Moon Druids truly are very efficient characters that almost never run out of HP or spells, but I'd argue that in a lot of ways they're really too efficient. Druids are already a very efficient class that uses up its resources very slowly, and moon druid kind of pushes their efficiency past the point of utiility, IMO. Like, how often do you use 2 wildshapes between each short rest? And if you do use those, are you really casting spells that often?

Like, animate dead is a fantastic ability to use at the end of the day when you've got excess spells. Blindness/Deafness is a great spell that you can use when you don't want to waste your concentration.

And that's ignoring their level six ability, which is really solid when compared with what other druids get at level 6. If you're fighting humanoids, I can easily see you getting this ability off on as many turns as not, and even if the zombie doesn't make it to your round, it will probably at least take a hit for you. Best usage of it is on creatures you kill, since you can make them attack your enemies immediately.

Overall, I don't think that they're as strong as that powerhouse of powerhouses, the shepherd's druid, but they're up there as one of the most solid necromancers in the game, and their damage potential is reasonably high compared to other druids. Most importantly, though, they're fun, as a slightly tanky caster who can wade into melee if needed.

[stoutstien]

* level 20 moon druid running away from any caster with moonbeam yelling, "into the light I command you!"

[Damon_Tor]

With spores form, if you're using something like 'primal savagery' you'll hit for 2d10+1d6 with a 1d6 reaction at level six, and a 1d6 damage aura on at all times at level 10.

Unless I'm mistaken, you only add the damage to weapon attacks, which means your options for actually using that part of your feature and not losing damage after level 5 are limited: you'll need to use Shillelagh in combination with Booming Blade, which means you've got to invest in Magic Initiate or dip another class. Frankly, I don't see the point of the poison damage added to your weapon. It seems so out of place with the rest of the design, and as noted, is almost entirely irrelevant after your cantrips level up. A nice feature for some multiclassing druid maybe. I could see this being pretty slick on a ranger as a two-level dip. But for a druid, the class this is supposed to be designed for? Pretty pointless.

[Luccan]

In all fairness there is really not much religious about demons and devils to begin with, other than they live on the outer planes.

I tend to think some of the monster-knowledge connections are a bit tenuous in current mythology anyway, and even more so when a campaign tweaks anything.

Well, in most settings including Ravnica it would seem, other than the more official religions, demons and devils tend to have the largest followings of any group of outsiders. The more powerful ones can even rival some gods.

[Trustypeaches]

My biggest problem with the Spore Druid is that it takes a full action to activate Wild Shape, which just feels BAD. Should've been a bonus action like Circle of the Moon.

[Sception]

If you think of religion only as "knowledge about the gods and their outer planes" then yeah, those things aren't in ravnica.

But if you think of religion as "knowledge about cultural beliefs, ritual practices, and mortal souls, including what happens to those souls after death and any supernatural creatures that are made of, feed on, or are otherwise especially concerned or associated with mortal souls (ie undead, fiends, and celestials)", then that stuff is /all over/ ravnica.

Granted, ggm doesn't do a great job presenting the religious aspects of the guilds or the setting overall, but mtg lore wikis should help you fill in some gaps there.

[Cybren]

What’s the optimal way to clean and maintain a cast iron skillet

[Sception]

https://www.thekitchn.com/how-to-clean-a-cast-iron-skillet-cleaning-lessons-from-the-kitchn-107747

[Waterdeep Merch]

After having read through most of this myself, I have the weirdest desire to basically run Paranoia in Ravnica.

It doesn't require much permutation, either. Put a crazed deity in charge of Ravnica that insists that guilds don't exist anymore and gives players a certain number of magical clones. Let them backstab each other in the interests of their personal guild goals while 'obeying' the deity's sometimes bizarre orders.

[Madfellow]

As Malisteen said, the Church of Orzhov is the primary religion on Ravnica, with the cults of Selesnya and Rakdos being its greatest competition. As far as I can tell, the Orzhov worship two things: the sun (since it dominates their iconography), and the concept of debt (based on a quote from Teysa). Selesnya worships a being called Mat Selesnya, which is an amalgamation of all living energy and will (like the Force in Star Wars). The cult of Rakdos worships the mad demon prince Rakdos, and spends all of its time, effort, and energy trying to appease his hedonistic whims. I'm not familiar with the Old Ways of the Gruul, and I wasn't aware the Cult of the Nephilim were still around.

The cosmology of Magic: The Gathering is very different from D&D. There are no Inner or Outer planes; instead, all planes are Material planes. With a few exceptions (Theros and Amonkhet), there's no world you can travel to where someone can prove definitively that gods exist, but angels and fiends still operate in the world and act in accordance with how they interpret the gods' will. Angels and demons are beings made of magic, spontaneously created and shaped by mortal prayers. The spirits of the dead can linger, but it's kind of implied that souls eventually fade into the Aether between worlds.

On Ravnica specifically, angels most often ally with the Boros Legion or the Orzhov Syndicate, but sometimes remain independent from both. Demons are almost exclusively allied with the Rakdos Cult.

[Prince Vine]

I was confused by mention of the Nephilim as a potential pact patron because I was under the impression that they were just big, tough beasties built out of random stuff/parts that were just mindless engines of destruction. Obviously to people living out by where they are you could worship them, much like worshiping a volcano, but not really power granting.

[ATHATH]

What’s the optimal way to clean and maintain a cast iron skillet

https://www.thekitchn.com/how-to-clean-a-cast-iron-skillet-cleaning-lessons-from-the-kitchn-107747

I feel like I'm missing something here.

[Naanomi]

I was confused by mention of the Nephilim as a potential pact patron because I was under the impression that they were just big, tough beasties built out of random stuff/parts that were just mindless engines of destruction. Obviously to people living out by where they are you could worship them, much like worshiping a volcano, but not really power granting.
https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Cult_of_Yore

[Luccan]

https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Cult_of_Yore

That makes perfect sense for a Cleric: their power comes from their faith in something, so even if it's granted by a deity, they can only use it because they believe. Warlocks make purposeful deals with intelligent powers.

[Sception]

I figure supernatural/high level figures in the various guilds would be a better match for warlock patrons. Boros/orzhov angels for celestial patrons, rakdos demons for fiend patrons, high level selesnya figures for fey patrons, orzhov ghosts or dimir psychic vampires for hexblades, golgari liches for undying, etc.

[GooeyChewie]

After having read through most of this myself, I have the weirdest desire to basically run Paranoia in Ravnica.

It doesn't require much permutation, either. Put a crazed deity in charge of Ravnica that insists that guilds don't exist anymore and gives players a certain number of magical clones. Let them backstab each other in the interests of their personal guild goals while 'obeying' the deity's sometimes bizarre orders.

I say let the guild still exist. Those are the secret societies!

[JackPhoenix]

That makes perfect sense for a Cleric: their power comes from their faith in something, so even if it's granted by a deity, they can only use it because they believe. Warlocks make purposeful deals with intelligent powers.

Not really. GOOlocks are mentioned as possibly drawing their powers from GOOs without them being aware the warlock even exist.


I say let the guild still exist. Those are the secret societies!

Selesnya are commie traitors, of course.

[Cybren]

I feel like I'm missing something here.

AMA means ask me anything

[Naanomi]

That makes perfect sense for a Cleric: their power comes from their faith in something, so even if it's granted by a deity, they can only use it because they believe. Warlocks make purposeful deals with intelligent powers.
“Before the first Stone was laid or the first Elf-child born, the power of the nephilim was gathering. Let that power be spread by my hand.” - flavor text from ‘Blessing of the Nephilim.

Seems appropriately lovecraftian to me