Min/Max to the extreme

[Jasder]

So, my DM in my group (5e with a little homebrew, fairly casual) has offered me a deal for my next character. If I take three stats of 3, I can have the other 3 at 18, so long as I roleplay it properly. So, my question is, what should I play? Or if you prefer, what would you play in this situation?

[Man_Over_Game]

So, my DM in my group (5e with a little homebrew, fairly casual) has offered me a deal for my next character. If I take three stats of 3, I can have the other 3 at 18, so long as I roleplay it properly. So, my question is, what should I play? Or if you prefer, what would you play in this situation?

I'm thinking a WIS-CON-DEX Air Genasi who's a little more "Wind" and a bit less "Humanoid". With the ludicrously high Wisdom, you'd do well as any of the Monk options. You don't need to wear armor, so your low Strength won't get in the way of holding a real weapon. Drunken Master (High Con, low intellectual stats) or Open Palm (natural mastery of Ki) would fit really well, as both of these subclasses rely on high Dex and high Wis.

Alternatively, a Halfling Cavalier Fighter on a Donkey, wearing plate armor, but he's mostly crippled. The smaller size and the medium mount means he can use it even in dungeons, and he utilizes a lance and shield in regular combat. High STR and CON, and one other stat of your choice.

[nickl_2000]

I wouldn't play it personally, the downsides are so much that it just wouldn't be fun for me to play. What do you drop in stats?

Strength - Well you can't actually carry anything, ever. I guess it might work though
Dex - This would be possible if you are a tortle or a heavy armor user. Saves would suck horribly though
Con - This one flat out won't work
Wis - Possible to drop this, but would suck for saves
Int - You literally wouldn't be able to talk. You would be an animal here
Cha - This one is possible, but how does one even get that social inept?

So to make it work.... you can possibly tank Str, Dex, Wis, and Cha.

A Tortle Hexblade who focuses on Charisma, Int, and Con would be decent enough to work. Don't count on carrying anything or ever going first in initiate order though. Plus as soon as anyone cast anything with a wisdom save on it you are out of the battle.

[Unoriginal]

So, my question is, what should I play?

D&D 3.5?


More seriously, even if you take non-variant human so you at least have 4 to your dump stats (and 19 to the rest, meaning you can max out for two of them at lvl 4), I don't see anything that'd be fun to play. Your character would be a glass cannon, except set up to be defeated by whatever affects your dump stats.

I guess you could go heavy armor Cleric and put your 19s in CON, WIS and STR.

[Jamesps]

The first stat I'd drop to 3 is strength. DnD's encumberance system is completely out of whack for small creatures, making them all little he-men regardless of their strength score, so play a small character that has strength 3 and you'll actually be about average human strength.

There's one suit of heavy armor that doesn't have a strength requirement. I believe it gives you 14 AC or something ludicrously poor. Wear it, and drop dex to 3. Playing a clumsy and slow character isn't much of a role play challenge.

Now you have to choose a mental stat. Wisdom's usually the easiest, but unfortunately you'll need it for reasons to be revealed. After wisdom, low charisma is easy to play. Having no social intelligence just means you say the wrong thing at every opportunity. This is easy because you are about to become the smartest person alive.

So: Gnome Cleric (nature)/Wizard

Strength 3
Constitution 18
Dexterity 4
Charisma 3
Intelligence 20
Wisdom 18

Use heavy armor, a shield, and a stick which you enchant to strike with your wisdom stat. Your AC will be decent and you'll have plenty of hp, as well as some pretty impressive spell casting abilities. Roleplaying-wise you'll be the ridiculously arrogant sage that can't open their mouth without insulting others intelligence (but not in a way that seems particularly pithy). You strength will actually be realistic for your size, but you'll be clutzy as all get out.

[Unoriginal]

The first stat I'd drop to 3 is strength. DnD's encumberance system is completely out of whack for small creatures, making them all little he-men regardless of their strength score, so play a small character that has strength 3 and you'll actually be about average human strength.

That's an utter lie.

A creature with 3 in STR can carry 45 pounds before suffering from encumbrance, and could at best have 90 pounds of equipment.



There's one suit of heavy armor that doesn't have a strength requirement. I believe it gives you 14 AC or something ludicrously poor. Wear it, and drop dex to 3. Playing a clumsy and slow character isn't much of a role play challenge.

It weight 40 pounds alone.


You strength will actually be realistic for your size

There is nothing realistic about this.

[Raynor007]

To the extreme is right. Stats like that would make for an excellent Monk (18s in DEX, WIS, and CON) or Ranger (18s in DEX, STR, and CON) for combat, but for roleplaying purposes you'd really have to lean into the 3s more than the 18s. A 3 in CHA means he's really ugly, and can't talk without stumbling over his tongue. A 3 in WIS means he relies on his physical ability to get out of trouble, so he throws himself into situations without thinking about the consequences. A 3 in INT means he can't read, doesn't know what words mean, and doesn't understand or take instruction.

Have you seen Trollhunters on Netflix? A Barbarian based on Aaaargh would work well: brain damaged, loyal, and incredibly fierce. He lets his friends do the thinking and talking, and can easily save others when things go wrong.

[MagneticKitty]

So, my DM in my group (5e with a little homebrew, fairly casual) has offered me a deal for my next character. If I take three stats of 3, I can have the other 3 at 18, so long as I roleplay it properly. So, my question is, what should I play? Or if you prefer, what would you play in this situation?

Any build that picks the best 3 saves is probably best.
Wis, con, dex

So with these we can do a druid, monk, cleric, rogue, dex fighter, ranger...
With 3 but you can't talk.. you're like a wolf level of int.
Id say personality wise outlander literally raised By wolves is great.

If you want someone who can talk a fun character might be:
Immortal mystic dex, int, wis
Feral winged teifling. Ask if you can reflavor your wings to floating psychicly.
Is a germaphobe. Will not even touch the ground due to getting sick so easy. They refuse to shake hands and use mage hand (mystic has a version) to carry things. If they could be in a hamsterball all the time they would. Is too weak to stand and so flies everywhere.
Swap wis for con if desired.. But less fun of a character concept

Makes a good barb..
Con, dex, str.
Mentally absent, play a monster race or animalistic race. They keep this one on a chain. They unbound you only in combat.. sometimes you don't know friends from foes. You can be trained... Maybe with treats. Not much to rp, don't expect any character defining arcs unless you find a headband of intellect. But who needs that. Make them a race with natural weapons and you can not need any items or anything. Recomend: minotaur, centaur (litterally the group riding horse) lixardfolk, tortle, Tabaxi (lion or tiger pattern), aarakocra (bird of prey)

[N810]

...
Makes a good barb..
Con, dex, str.
Mentally absent, play a monster race or animalistic race. They keep this one on a chain. They unbound you only in combat.. sometimes you don't know friends from foes. You can be trained... Maybe with treats. Not much to rp, don't expect any character defining arcs unless you find a headband of intellect. But who needs that. Make them a race with natural weapons and you can not need any items or anything. Recomend: minotaur, centaur (litterally the group riding horse) lixardfolk, tortle, Tabaxi (lion or tiger pattern), aarakocra (bird of prey)

Other good races are Bugbear, Half-ork, Ork, and Bugbear.
You might want to go berserker for the protection from fear/mind control/etc... while raging.
and you don't even need armor with at least an 18 in strength and dex.
Ps. Tavern brawler might be a fun feat to take.

[Spiritchaser]

I’d go wis int con moon Druid, total treehugger with no time for or interest in the humanity around him

Yes, I know, Con gets replaced by whatever you wild shape into, but you won’t always be wildshaped, and take it from one whose tried: Con 3 characters, even moon druids, don’t live very long.

[PastorofMuppets]

Be a wizard with the 18s in the bottom three. Use mage hand to move things around and the disk spell to move yourself around in a chair. With physical stats so low I’d pretend I could barely move at all to hopefully have an edge on folks that think I’m actually a cripple. Not sure what items you’d have access to but I’d get some forms of magical mobility to help that illusion or at least crutches.

Think Hector Salamanca but as a wizard for how he portrays himself.

[nickl_2000]

Be a wizard with the 18s in the bottom three. Use mage hand to move things around and the disk spell to move yourself around in a chair. With physical stats so low I’d pretend I could barely move at all to hopefully have an edge on folks that think I’m actually a cripple. Not sure what items you’d have access to but I’d get some forms of magical mobility to help that illusion or at least crutches.

Think Hector Salamanca but as a wizard for how he portrays himself.

I imagine this character as Professor Xavier. (oh and your name on here is awesome!)

[Thorgrim]

Play a paladin.

18 STR
18 CON
18 CHA

You'll be strong enough to carry your equipment. Tough enough to survive. Charismatic enough to have good spellcasting and out of combat resources. If you go Mountain Dwarf, you'll start out with 20 in two of those stats. If you go Regular Human (not variant) you'll be at 4 in your other three stats (helping the negatives a little bit) and at level 4 you can bump up to 20 STR and 20 CHA.

Your saves will suck, but paladins have a beautiful thing called Aura of Protection. At level 6, you'll instantly get +4 or +5 to all your saves, bringing them up to either +0 or +1.

[Jamesps]

That's an utter lie.

A creature with 3 in STR can carry 45 pounds before suffering from encumbrance, and could at best have 90 pounds of equipment.



It weight 40 pounds alone.



There is nothing realistic about this.

90lbs is plenty. Being encumbered is a pain, but you can get around it with a mount. This also provides a pack animal if you can't bring yourself to par down to 90 lbs.

As for your claim that "small characters are little he-men," is an utter lie... I'm not really sure how to respond to that. Do you think it's normal that a below-average strength person (8 strength) can walk around with 3 times their own weight without being hindered? Even carrying your own weight without hindrance is pretty far fetched for a below-average strength person.

You don't like playing that way? Fine. I wouldn't have a problem with it. Cut the hyperbola.

[KorvinStarmast]

Any build that picks the best 3 saves is probably best.
Wis, con, dex
So with these we can do a druid, monk, cleric, rogue, dex fighter, ranger...

The obvious "Moon Druid" comes to mind, but I think I'd go human monk. Way of the Shadow.
4 / 19 / 19 / 4 / 19 / 4

Monks walk around nearly naked to start with.
Monks need 1 quarter staff and maybe a couple of daggers.
AC 18 at level 1. Bump Wis and Dex to 20 at level 4 ... and you have AC 20.

Enjoy. Annoy your friends by finding a head band of intellect and getting a 19 Int to go with your other stats.
Annoy them even more by finding Ogre Gauntlets.

[follacchioso]

Many years ago I've briefly played a gelatinous cube. That would be pretty much the same experience. Give it a thought, gelatinous cubes are the best. :-)

[Galithar]

Play a paladin.

18 STR
18 CON
18 CHA

You'll be strong enough to carry your equipment. Tough enough to survive. Charismatic enough to have good spellcasting and out of combat resources. If you go Mountain Dwarf, you'll start out with 20 in two of those stats. If you go Regular Human (not variant) you'll be at 4 in your other three stats (helping the negatives a little bit) and at level 4 you can bump up to 20 STR and 20 CHA.

Your saves will suck, but paladins have a beautiful thing called Aura of Protection. At level 6, you'll instantly get +4 or +5 to all your saves, bringing them up to either +0 or +1.

This is exactly what I was going to say. Min-Max this is the best build because it basically negates your biggest weakness of being super susceptible to three saves while making your three strong ones amazing.

[Genoin]

Does negative Dex not impose an AC penalty in 5e?

Regardless, I think the best build suggested so far is probably moon druid or monk

[Unoriginal]

Does negative Dex not impose an AC penalty in 5e?

It does. Unless you have an heavy armor.

[Genoin]

That is hilarious.

[Unoriginal]

That is hilarious.

It allows combatants to not invest into DEX and still be able to tank, rather than making DEX builds omnipresent.

[Foxhound438]

So, my DM in my group (5e with a little homebrew, fairly casual) has offered me a deal for my next character. If I take three stats of 3, I can have the other 3 at 18, so long as I roleplay it properly. So, my question is, what should I play? Or if you prefer, what would you play in this situation?

the stringiest noodle wizard you've ever seen. Obviously stats are 3 str, 18 dex (boy it's hard to hit a line sometimes), 3 con, 18 int, 18 wis, 3 charisma (good like finding a date looking like that).

I don't think it's necessarily so optimal, but i'd have fun with it. Definitely prepare feather fall before climbing any ladders, 10 feet is a long way for someone with 2HP, and don't roll any hit dice before you can boost con or take tough, or else you might die.

[CTurbo]

I'd go Frenzy Barb all the way 18s in Str, Dex, Con and dump the rest. The idea to make it a race with natural weapons was great.

I've already played a similar character. I was allowed to make and control a side character that was actually the party pet. It was a feral Halfling child/teen that was statted 12 Str, 18 Dex, 18 Con, 3 Int, 6 Wis, and 4 Cha and l played it as animalistic. It couldn't speak and only understood a few basic commands. It wouldn't wear clothes and eventually learned to use a light hammer as a weapon. I gave it the Mobile feat and it was actually a lot of fun to rp and was extremely helpful in combat. It slept in the dirt and crapped itself.

In combat there was no decision making really. If it wasn't raging it played the hit and run game usually running between teammates legs and hiding behind them. If and when it got attacked it went into a frenzy automatically and always attacked recklessly. It didnt rage unless it was attacked or one of it's owners went down. Exhaustion was a problem but it was supposed to be. It simply sat out some encounters to sleep.

Having a wild attack Tabaxi or Lizardfolk on a chain would be awesome.


My other best suggestion would be some kind of crippled or mostly paralyzed Sorcerer or Wizard.
3 Str, 3 Dex, 18 Con, 18 Int, 18 Wis, 3 Cha

The Paladin idea was good as was the Air Genasi one.

I'd have a lot of fun with this

[jdolch]

Do you WANT to play like this? Because mechanically it's a very bad idea.

You generally don't need 3 Stats at 18. Most of the time it's perfectly fine to have one as high as possible, one medium high and the rest not too low.

And 3 in a stat, that's just terrible. E.g. Int 3 means your Character is basically dumber than most animals. 3 in Str, Con or Dex means he is physically severely handicapped to the point of being bedridden.

Specifically to the point of Int 3, Wis 3 Barbarian i want to say: Be careful that you play this right. Your Character is dumb. And not just normal Barbarian dumb, I mean mentally handicapped. Idiot Savant, minus the savant. He completely fails to meet basic human minimum standards. He needs people actively looking after him, so that he doesn't hurt himself. There is a door in front of him and he can't open it, because he fails to grasp the concept of a door handle. Like THAT level of stupid.

Same with CHA 3. He is not just a normal jerk. Because in real life at least most jerks can pass as Alpha or whatever and may get some grudging respect. Your Character is not one of those! He is insufferable and lame at the same time. Nobody likes him. Nobody respects him. Anybody who can avoid him, goes out of their way to do so. There is literally nothing cool about him. You can not play this as a normal "Wild" Barbarian, because those are cool. And cool means at least some level of charisma, which your Char doesn't have.


Have you seen Trollhunters on Netflix? A Barbarian based on Aaaargh would work well: brain damaged, loyal, and incredibly fierce. He lets his friends do the thinking and talking, and can easily save others when things go wrong.

Careful! That Character does not have a CHA of 3, as evidenced by the simple fact that you think that he is cool. Pick a Character that is so lame, unremarkable and useless that you feel it would be better of they didn't exist. Now you're getting close to CHA 3.

[Benny89]

Dual dagger/shortsword & Shield wielding barbarian. You don't need to wear much with Barbarian or carry much as you get Unarmored Defense.

So I would go 3 STR (Just carry dual daggers or short sword and shield) and be almost naked with badass tattoos), 18 DEX, 18 CON, 3 INT, 18 WIS (for that save throws) and 3 CHA.

With unarmed defense you will have by level 2 - 18 AC (10 + DEx + CON mod). Take Bear Totem or Zealot and just rage and stab someone to death.

That would fit ;). For race I would take elf so I could start with 20 DEX on level 1. That saves us TWO ASI! On Level 1!

Then I would Take Resilent (CON) to get prof in WIS throws). Then Magic Innate (Warlock) for maybe some range attack (EB) + Hex. With Shield you would rock 19 AC easy.

Zealot woud be good later in game as with 18 WIS + RES (CON) you would have super high WIS saves and you can't die later anyway from just damage done really.

Talk to your DM to allow use Spears with DEX instead of STR and you can take that instead of Shortsword. And then take PAM.

[Keravath]

Personally, I could never play a character like that for any length of time. Maybe for a one off.

Keep in mind ... you are expected to roleplay to the stats. You could create a number of characters that are mechanically good in combat ... usually with dex/con or str/con. You could also go str/dex/con for a barbarian.

However the flip side is the mental stats of 3/3/3 ... or one of them at 18 and the other two at 3.

What does that mean?

3 int or wis ... when the party is planning you HAVE to shut up. You can not contribute any ideas since you won't have any. If the party is talking to an NPC, you can't talk to them because unless your int is 18 you are probably non-verbal, may only understand a few words if any. You can't communicate. If your DM wants you to roleplay the stats then you are expected to role play them including NOT contributing when it would be out of character which is literally all the time. You can't search for anything, your perception is so bad that you will miss the pit in front of you before you fall in.

INTELLIGENCE
Intelligence measures mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and the ability to reason.
An Intelligence check comes into play when you need to draw on logic, education, memory, or deductive reasoning.

WISDOM
Wisdom reflects how attuned you are to the world around you and represents perceptiveness and intuition.
A Wisdom check might reflect an effort to read body language, understand someone's feelings, notice things about the environment, or care for an injured person.

CHARISMA
Charisma measures your ability to interact effectively with others. It includes such factors as confidence and eloquence, and it can represent a charming or commanding personality.
A Charisma check might arise when you try to influence or entertain others, when you try to make an impression
or tell a convincing lie, or when you are navigating a tricky social situation.


For example, a skeleton is smarter, wiser and more appealing that you are. You are as smart as a zombie but the zombie is both wiser AND more charismatic. Think about it ... you are uglier and less appealing that a shambling undead with flesh dripping off them. You walk into a town with a charisma of 3 and you smell so bad, look so ugly and are so unappealing that no one wants to be anywhere near you. If the DM is running it properly there might be some folks who want to lynch you just to put you out of your misery.

An int of three is about as smart as the average dog. Hopefully your party members can potty train you to at least go outside ... but honestly, you will still probably have an oops from time to time. Maybe your party members will use a leash so you don't wander off?

----------

Anyway, some folks think such a character might be cool ... but honestly if you plan to actually play it ... it will be a novelty for about 10 minutes and once you realize that all you can do mechanically is fight ... then you might as well start as many fights as possible then when the character is dead you can create something that would actually work.

[Trampaige]

Dual dagger/shortsword & Shield wielding barbarian. You don't need to wear much with Barbarian or carry much as you get Unarmored Defense.

So I would go 3 STR (Just carry dual daggers or short sword and shield) and be almost naked with badass tattoos), 18 DEX, 18 CON, 3 INT, 18 WIS (for that save throws) and 3 CHA.

With unarmed defense you will have by level 2 - 18 AC (10 + DEx + CON mod). Take Bear Totem or Zealot and just rage and stab someone to death.

That would fit ;). For race I would take elf so I could start with 20 DEX on level 1. That saves us TWO ASI! On Level 1!

Then I would Take Resilent (CON) to get prof in WIS throws). Then Magic Innate (Warlock) for maybe some range attack (EB) + Hex. With Shield you would rock 19 AC easy.

Zealot woud be good later in game as with 18 WIS + RES (CON) you would have super high WIS saves and you can't die later anyway from just damage done really.

Talk to your DM to allow use Spears with DEX instead of STR and you can take that instead of Shortsword. And then take PAM.

1: Rage damage bonus requires you use strength to attack
2: Reckless attack requires you use strength to attack
3: Polearm master doesn't work with spears

[Benny89]

1: Rage damage bonus requires you use strength to attack
2: Reckless attack requires you use strength to attack
3: Polearm master doesn't work with spears

1 and 2 - true, I didn't read about Barb that much so I missed that he needs STR for everything. Little let down too :(. Wanted to do DEX Barb in future.

As for 3- I said "ask your GM" because Polearm does work with Quaterstaff, which has same properties and damage profile as spear. So if PAM can work with stick, it can work with stick with blade at the end. I asked my DM and he said that both are same weapons (mechanically) so he sees no problem using Spear instead of Q-Staff. The only difference is piercing vs blunt damage. Everything else is same so you gain no advantage apart from "looking more cool in plate with Spear and shield, instead of stick and shield"

[Sahe]

18 in all mental stats.

3 in all physical ones.

Be a Ghostwise Halfling Wizard and be Professor Xavier.

Ask if you can either get wheelchair as starting equipment or if Tenser's Floating Disk can carry you as well.

You'll be able to participate in Roleplaying...you better not get hit in combat though...since 4 Damage is enough to insta kill you.

[Arkhios]

Rock Gnome Moon Druid.
Str 3, Dex 3, Con 4, Int 20, Wis 18, Cha 18.

[Sudsboy]

I'd play something with Dex, Wis, and Con of 18, for great saves in most situations. Maybe a caster cleric or druid? Alternately, the above suggestions for barbarian would work, though I don't know how you wouldn't annoy the entire table roleplaying a 3 Cha, Int, and Wis.

[Jasder]

I have to say, one idea I've had is for a Warlock, high con, cha, and dex, but then go pact of the chain, basically be directed and led around by your familiar, instead of the other way around. Could be fun.

[Keravath]

I have to say, one idea I've had is for a Warlock, high con, cha, and dex, but then go pact of the chain, basically be directed and led around by your familiar, instead of the other way around. Could be fun.

Or play a massive barbarian taken over by an intellect devourer. Of course you are then playing the intellect devourer with a combat chassis and it isn't really the barbarian you are playing anymore.

[revgizmo]

18 in all mental stats.

3 in all physical ones.

Be a Ghostwise Halfling Wizard and be Professor Xavier.

Ask if you can either get wheelchair as starting equipment or if Tenser's Floating Disk can carry you as well.

You'll be able to participate in Roleplaying...you better not get hit in combat though...since 4 Damage is enough to insta kill you.

This is excellent, but do that for Moon Druid. Telepathy in beast form, ridiculous saves and spells.

[Whit]

Your a big dumb brute who follows what other people tell you.

Strength 18.
Constitution 18
Dexterity 18
Intelligence 3. Think of yourself like a big dumb ogre. U talk by making different grunt sounds. You follow your friends around and do whatever they say.
Wisdom 3 Anyone can fool you. You rush into combat without care or begin thrashing your weapon about because someone made you angry. Even friends. Your a big tantrum baby
Grunts at fire.. touches fire. Ouch. Grunts. In confusion that it hurts.
Charisma. You drool, grunt eat like an animal don’t wipe burp fart take other people s food if your still hungry.

I think it would be a funny character to role play.
Just be ok with doing what other people tell you to do or not do. Get fooled. Charmed etc very easy. Even on social skills. Don’t Cary money because your stupid.
You could go dwarf get 20/20 str con
Human get GWM or savage attacker and 19/19 str con
Half orc etc
Class fighter champion or battle master would be interesting. Your dumb but a martial fighter. Even Eldritch Knight. Cast a few spells just not attack spells. , barbarian totem bear

[8wGremlin]

Your a big dumb brute who follows what other people tell you.

Strength 18.
Constitution 18
Dexterity 18
Intelligence 3. Think of yourself like a big dumb ogre. U talk by making different grunt sounds. You follow your friends around and do whatever they say.
Wisdom 3 Anyone can fool you. You rush into combat without care or begin thrashing your weapon about because someone made you angry. Even friends. Your a big tantrum baby
Grunts at fire.. touches fire. Ouch. Grunts. In confusion that it hurts.
Charisma. You drool, grunt eat like an animal don’t wipe burp fart take other people s food if your still hungry.

I think it would be a funny character to role play.
Just be ok with doing what other people tell you to do or not do. Get fooled. Charmed etc very easy. Even on social skills. Don’t Cary money because your stupid.
You could go dwarf get 20/20 str con
Human get GWM or savage attacker and 19/19 str con
Half orc etc
Class fighter champion or battle master would be interesting. Your dumb but a martial fighter. Even Eldritch Knight. Cast a few spells just not attack spells. , barbarian totem bear


or Ranger and have longstrider, so you can run fast once in a while.
and use two clubs, cus you get to BASH more often