MetaConcert Stacking?

[kalos72]

I am working on a Psionic Army design and plan on using a STP Erudite or Psion, stacked with 5 Constructors in a metaconcert to pump PP's into the Constructors for AC production. And then have a melee group of a Tactician , one Zealot and 5 Aegis in their own collective.

If the STP/Psion starts their metaconcert, invites the 5 constructors, can the 5 constructors then create their own metaconcert and invite the Tacticians?

I want to feed melee groups of Tacticians PP to aid their Zealot/Aegis group of front line combatants.

STP starts Constructors get fed PP. Constructor starts it, feeds Tacticians.

I know there is the range issue still...

[kalos72]

I guess a question I have here is world range be affected by being in the same Collective?

[kalos72]

Is this that stupid of an idea or do people just not know? :)

[DeTess]

Metaconcerts look really complicated, but if I'm reading it correctly, once a metaconcert has been started all participants act as one entity, so the individuals can't start their own concerts as they don't act as individuals.

[ExLibrisMortis]

For reference, here's the first thread on this topic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?560855-Psionic-Army-Design).


Metaconcerts look really complicated, but if I'm reading it correctly, once a metaconcert has been started all participants act as one entity, so the individuals can't start their own concerts as they don't act as individuals.
No, they still act as individuals. The conductor manages the efforts of the "psionic entity", and the other participants must remain close by. The stupid part is that the psionic entity is entirely unspecified. I usually assume the conductor's base stats are the entity's base stats, and the metaconcert bonuses go on top of that (save DC bonus, saves bonus, powers known). Whether the psionic entity has actions on top of the conductor's, and what action it takes to direct the entity... it's anyone's guess. Again, I only have an assumption, which is that it takes a standard action to command the entity, which has its own actions every round (and shares the conductor's initiative).


There's nothing saying you can't be part of multiple metaconcerts directly. You might run afoul of the usual "Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths" clause, which would limit you to the most powerful metaconcert currently active--not that there's a clear way to figure out which one that is, but still.

[kalos72]

If I am just using metaconcert for the PP production, and someone ELSE is leading it, the members really aren't too effected just be being a member. In my mind anyways...

If I have the STP/Psion lead Meta1 with 5 Constructors. Then each Constructor lead their own Meta2 with 5 Tacticians, which leader squads of my psionic army troops, I can feed the tacticians pp easily I THINK.

The range vs Collective is an open issue...

[ExLibrisMortis]

Metaconcert requires its participants to remain within 20' of one another. Affinity field has a 20' radius, too. It's the field that provides the flow of pp, not the metaconcert. That's only for boosting save DCs and bypassing UPD limits, giving you big versatility in save-or-dies.

What might be funky is the following: the tacticians form metaconcerts, and the psionic entities form a metametaconcert. That way, all powers known by any of the metaconcert participants is known at all higher tiers of metaconcert.

[kalos72]

Is there any feat etc, thats able to extend the field range? How would Collective effect this ability? or could it be made to?

Knowing range is still an issue, it would appear that there is no RAW that would prevent it in my eyes.

Anyone have any other tricks or what not as it relates to MetaConcert?

[Psyren]

3.5 or PF version? They work very differently, and the 3.5 one is decidedly more confusing so you may get some "unclear" answers.

[lbuttitta]

As Libris mentioned, there isn't really a definitive ruling on this, but rules-wise, there's nothing stopping the metaconcert-made entities from manifesting their own metaconcert. I would allow it as a DM.

[Crichton]

Ok, maybe I'm just being dumb and completely missing something here, but where are you getting extra PP from? Metaconcert doesn't create extra PP for anyone, it just takes a portion of each participant's PP and puts it in a collective pool for the conductor to utilize.


I don't understand how you're going to 'pump PP's into the Constructors' who have already given up some of their PP to the collective, and aren't the conductor of it. (We are talking about the Constructor prestige class here, right?) One of them could theoretically be the conductor and use the PP from the collective pool, but only one of them, and you said 'Constructors' plural. Same goes for how you want to 'feed melee groups of Tacticians PP.' Feed it to them from whom? Who supplies the PP you're feeding them, and how are you feeding it to multiple Tacticians?

What is the source of the PP you want to pump/feed? And how are you getting PP from the collective pool fed back into the members of the collective? That's not how Metaconcert works... Only the conductor of the collective can utilize PP from the pool. The rest of the participants lose access to the PP they contribute to the collective.

The wording of your OP makes it sound like you intend to use a Metaconcert to give all the participants more PP to work with, or to at least take some PP from some participants and send it back to multiple others, but Metaconcert doesn't give PP to the participants, it takes it from all of them for the one conductor to use...



Or am I just grossly misunderstanding your intention here?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Ok, maybe I'm just being dumb and completely missing something here [...]
No, you're not :smalltongue:. See my previous post for a link to the previous thread. Affinity field is the big force multiplier here, not metaconcert.

[kalos72]

Yes, Affinity Field is the key with the PP battery idea.

The MetaConcert question is my attempt at finding ways to spread the love down stream.

If the STP Erudite feeds the Constructors, and then Constructors feed the Tacticians etc down my combat command structure, I can get PP to all the psionics in the field. Plus the healing...instead of relying on the Collective alone.

But I am thinking that MAYBE there is way to expand the range of both the Field and Concert to Collective? Custom magic item or feat perhaps?