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Eddy167
2018-11-10, 06:55 AM
Hello,
In short: I have 2 males, a female as players and they dont get along because of gender and female being interesting character. What story can I create to help change their attitude or just forget it and have fun in the game?

In long: Currently I am running Out of the Abyss scenario, but adding and tweaking a lot. I have 3 players and now we played 4 sessions in total (8h each) together. They are all new to dnd. Each of them is starting to engage specific character story in its own unique way. Mostly demon/corruption/cursed stuff.

As sesions go by I am starting to see more and more comflicts between 2 males and a female, which are based around female being thiefling, eccentric, stuttering or acting too emotionaly. She also has fiend features like multi pupils who retract and so on.

Males characters do not approve being tiefling whilst all around us are demons and so on, thats why they reject her and if something happens badly (which make the story really interesting and funny) they blame her or ignore hers quite interesting ideas what to do. Then there is one or more "cuz u r woman" even if the tiefling is male..

Males are quite simple in real life and in game. One of them is aggressive, dismissive and so is his character - tries to kill if it doesnt work out or just forget it and "can we move on?". And the other is getting better each game and is really trying to get into the story, but still can't use his imagination or will to break through himself, also lack of experience ofc.

Anyways, the girl is doing the best job at roleplaying and creates fun stuff in the game. After last session she felt really badly (she had nice idea in game and rolled a 1, happened to hurt other characters and get arrested and in the got bullied because of it) and is thinking about changing character a bit, being more silent maybe just to appease others. But I really dont that the-only-fun and impactful character to destroyed itself..

I cant think of any ways to change their attitude quickly, its kind of grown into the bones thing however idiotic is that and I cant afford to lose players because they are everything I have.

How do I connect and integrate their characters story lines in the way that they need each other? Problem is - they are not creative yet and I have to suggest multi things with NPCs to make it fun.

What can I do with the story to create healthy relationships between characters and in turn people..? Should they depend more and more on each other? It can backfire too. Should I give more value to female player? Inequality in content is silly thing to do. Or should I just let one of the male get demonically corrupted and tiefling warlock gets a vision to purge him. But is fighting each other the way?

I dearly thank to whoever reads it out and tries to cope with this..

DeTess
2018-11-10, 08:22 AM
This sounds like an OOC problem. If the male players are being unfriendly to the female player because she is a woman, call them out on it. If they continue, kick them out because they're clearly A-holes than you don't need in your life.

In-character friction cam be fine, but this sounds like a non-fine example, where the group basically has no reason to be adventuring together except that they're all PC's. Make sure to have each player answer the question 'why do I travel with character X, Y and Z' before actually starting the game.

TheYell
2018-11-10, 10:27 AM
Then there is one or more "cuz u r woman" even if the tiefling is male..


Wait, the character is male but they dismiss the player as a woman? That can't be tolerated.


Sounds like you might want to take a session to explain what you expect players to bring to table to work together as players to deal with what happens to characters. They're new, so maybe they don't know that there's various ways to play and its on them to find one that's fun for everybody.

Quertus
2018-11-10, 10:29 AM
So, if someone is playing an unstable Demon-thing like you describe, is say that the other PCs are being charitable not having killed it already.

Perhaps a more sane, less demonic character would serve this player better than assuming gender bias?

Koo Rehtorb
2018-11-10, 10:52 AM
You're a DM, not a counselor. Your job is to run the game, not to help people work through their personal issues.

That said, you don't have to associate with anyone you don't want to, and from the sounds of it you'd be better off finding better people to play with.

Darth Ultron
2018-11-10, 11:17 AM
Sure, this is easy to do in game. One of the great things about being a DM is you have all the power to make people act differently. For the most part you won't really change them or anything...but at the least you can get them to act right in whatever way you want, during the game. It is a small victory.

So, you want to do something like this:

The three of them fight a demon and it explodes: they are all possessed by the echo of that demon. That demon was a war leader that commanded troops.

So the first thing the players get is a +1 to attack, hp, and ac per class level. Power!

Then, if the PCs work together(that is do whatever you want them to do exactly) the Demecho gives them double the power: +2 to attack, hp, ac per class level! Because the Demecho wants it's ''troops to act together".

But, should the PCs not work together(that is do anything you don't like) the Demecho gives them a -5 to attack, hp and ac per class level....and for really bad ''not working together" polymoprhs the PC into a Donkey!

So it will work like this:

Woman player acts right and does good things in the game: gets the bonus.

Male player is a jerk and says even once "dumb girl"...and BAM...his character gets the big -5 to things and is polymoprhed into a donkey for a couple rounds.

It's likely that:

A)The guy will learn how to ''act right", at least during the game

OR

B)The guy will whine, cry and complain...maybe run away from the game screaming.

Either way is a win win for you and the other players.

Knaight
2018-11-10, 11:56 AM
That said, you don't have to associate with anyone you don't want to, and from the sounds of it you'd be better off finding better people to play with.

Specifically two replacements, because as described you have the two dudes in a group being hostile to another player out of character, from direct commentary to trying to prevent her from playing the game.


I cant think of any ways to change their attitude quickly, its kind of grown into the bones thing however idiotic is that and I cant afford to lose players because they are everything I have.
What exactly do you mean by "they are everything I have"? Because this is raising some real red flags about staying in dubious groups for dubious reasons.

TheYell
2018-11-10, 12:12 PM
I'd advertise to get more players. Your problem is one of very newbie players which most experienced players in my experience avoid. you can use the reinforcement to set up norms for your table.

Knaight
2018-11-10, 12:17 PM
I'd advertise to get more players. Your problem is one of very newbie players which most experienced players in my experience avoid. you can use the reinforcement to set up norms for your table.

This isn't a new person problem, this is a jerk problem. I've had a lot of newbie players throughout the years, and consistently not seen this from them because my newbie player pool is screened for jerks - but I have seen this from veteran players elsewhere (albeit not at my table, because again, I screen for jerks).

Arbane
2018-11-10, 02:10 PM
Sure, this is easy to do in game. One of the great things about being a DM is you have all the power to make people act differently. For the most part you won't really change them or anything...but at the least you can get them to act right in whatever way you want, during the game. It is a small victory.

(Ham-fisted plot device deleted)

I am not the least bit surprised that you recommend using IC punishment to deal with an OOC problem. Disappointed, but not surprised.

(Everyone else: DON'T DO THIS. Talk to players like they're reasonable people. If they're not, why are you playing with them?)

Faily
2018-11-10, 03:55 PM
Clearly these are a-hole jerks and need to be called out on their trash behaviour.

If they don't shape up, kick them out. Do *not* let them trample over the other player.

Eddy167
2018-11-10, 05:39 PM
Sure, this is easy to do in game. One of the great things about being a DM is you have all the power to make people act differently. For the most part you won't really change them or anything...but at the least you can get them to act right in whatever way you want, during the game. It is a small victory.

So, you want to do something like this:

The three of them fight a demon and it explodes: they are all possessed by the echo of that demon. That demon was a war leader that commanded troops.

So the first thing the players get is a +1 to attack, hp, and ac per class level. Power!

Then, if the PCs work together(that is do whatever you want them to do exactly) the Demecho gives them double the power: +2 to attack, hp, ac per class level! Because the Demecho wants it's ''troops to act together".

But, should the PCs not work together(that is do anything you don't like) the Demecho gives them a -5 to attack, hp and ac per class level....and for really bad ''not working together" polymoprhs the PC into a Donkey!

So it will work like this:

Woman player acts right and does good things in the game: gets the bonus.

Male player is a jerk and says even once "dumb girl"...and BAM...his character gets the big -5 to things and is polymoprhed into a donkey for a couple rounds.

It's likely that:

A)The guy will learn how to ''act right", at least during the game

OR

B)The guy will whine, cry and complain...maybe run away from the game screaming.

Either way is a win win for you and the other players.

I really want to thank you because you are the only out of three (!) forums who replied at least some kind of problem solving in game.
For everyone else, talking with people about this problem is really hard thing to do and is not one-sentence thing. This problem is frequent in our society and if I ban this "sexism" from game then it will find its place in her being a male tiefling. If I ban that again, I will be just a ***, no? Why should players be not hostile to devil rated being in underground?
I've tried to express my opinion here r eddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/9vtodp/how_dm_can_fix_real_life_unhealthy_relationships/but got voted down a lot.. feeling really low after all of this now that I am a bad person for not stopping it and that no one really dug the problem - it is deep in my society and I want to help in not mainstream way of shouting and destroying other opinions, which may be wrong and so on, but come on.. its 21st century.

The Glyphstone
2018-11-10, 06:11 PM
I really want to thank you because you are the only out of three (!) forums who replied at least some kind of problem solving in game.
For everyone else, talking with people about this problem is really hard thing to do and is not one-sentence thing. This problem is frequent in our society and if I ban this "sexism" from game then it will find its place in her being a male tiefling. If I ban that again, I will be just a ***, no? Why should players be not hostile to devil rated being in underground?
I've tried to express my opinion here r eddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/9vtodp/how_dm_can_fix_real_life_unhealthy_relationships/but got voted down a lot.. feeling really low after all of this now that I am a bad person for not stopping it and that no one really dug the problem - it is deep in my society and I want to help in not mainstream way of shouting and destroying other opinions, which may be wrong and so on, but come on.. its 21st century.

You can't fix other people, sadly, unless they are willing to be fixed. Wanting to reform a toxic element of your cultural society is laudable, but vastly beyond the scope of one person or one DM table. The only solution I can offer is to try online gaming, via sites like Roll20. Playing with people from different regions/cultures might get you a group more in line with your personal beliefs.

Darth Ultron
2018-11-10, 08:18 PM
I am not the least bit surprised that you recommend using IC punishment to deal with an OOC problem. Disappointed, but not surprised.

(Everyone else: DON'T DO THIS. Talk to players like they're reasonable people. If they're not, why are you playing with them?)

I do what works. And my way always works. I don't ''try'' things, I ''do" things.


I really want to thank you because you are the only out of three (!) forums who replied at least some kind of problem solving in game.


No problem, I'm here to help.

The Tale of Billy ''Donkey Kong" Dusseult. Billy was a jerk, even more so in his mistreatment of girls. Winters up North can be long and cold. And kids with little else to do spend many long hours in the community rec center. Board games and even video games get boring after a while. One day, I was there too and two of the girls asked me to run a D&D game, and so was born the quick ''elven princesses save the unicorn from the ogre" game. A couple more girls run over to join and other then saving the unicorn, one of the elven princess gets to ride off with the unicorn(if your wondering, as this was an all girls game they captured the ogre and each of the girls insisted that another get the unicorn, so none of them did). The girls had a ton of fun, and this quickly leads to me being asked if I could come back to run more games.

This leads to the Demons of Dovedale, as basic ''demons want to enter and take over the world adventure." So the group forms of both boys and girls...and one boy is Billy. Billy immediately starts to rant about how ''girls should not play this game" and ''girl can't do this" and "can't do that" and so on.

So quickly enough, the group kills a demon commander and gets effected by the demon echo: if they work together as a unit they get bonuses, and if they don't they get minuses...and donkey(ed). The girls had no problem with team work, and neither did the other boy.....but not Billy. It only took Billy a couple minutes to get his character turned into a donkey. Throughout the winter ''Donkey Billy" became quite an attraction (the girls made him a donkey hat with the tail from the pin the tail on the donkey game). Billy struggled as he would play more then half the game with his character as a donkey(or for more fun, a humanoid donkey..but with hoofs and not hands), but Billy could just not stop the ''girl" comments. It was some very long dramatic, even traumatic, hours of game play for Billy...even worse as he would often have an audience.

It took forever, just about all winter, but Billy did finally learn that he did not have to make ''girl" comments all the time. And there was a round of applause when Billy made it through his first game without his character being polymorphed into a donkey even once(and Billy's mom threw us a pizza party next week too because of this). While Billy might not have changed completely, he at least learned to break his habit of putting down girls constantly and to maybe not say every negative girl comment that 'popped' into his head. Then spring came and the kids could play outside....

Billy bulked up over the summer and started playing football. As he was a big kid...his football nickname was "Donkey Kong". So he did not come back to games next fall. For the next couple years I only saw him occasionally. Time moves on and Billy graduates from high school and I don't see him any more for a while. Then he shows up at my door one day: he is getting married and wants to invite me to the wedding. Billy..ahem..William tells me how much I effected his life...buy really just being his DM. I was the first adult ever (other then his mom) that ever told Billy him that how he was treating people..girls specifically, was wrong. He tells me how much that winter of D&D really effected him and how he was amazed that when he broke the habit of ''putting down girls" he just never started back up again.

So I go to the wedding(free food! and, sigh, my wife loves weddings). William's wedding picture video (with the music ''country boy can survive") has a picture of young Billy, wearing the donkey hat, arms crossed, sitting at a table looking down at some dice and a Players Handbook....and a picture of me and Billy playing D&D and eating pizza(taken at the above mentioned pizza party). And, the wedding party all plays ''pin the garter on the donkey" at the reception.

Today William is married, with a baby and just turned 21 last month(and as I was at the party with him, I can say Donkey Kong had a blast(drinking four horse men) . And come this winter, he can't wait to get back into gaming. Happy Ending.

Eddy167
2018-11-11, 05:20 AM
Amazing story!
And for others - yes, it will not stop anything, but each time fight or at least some aggressive words occurs, I could simply end it with a funny vibe.

denthor
2018-11-11, 10:42 AM
Ok. I am an absolute a hole.

In situations like this.

Introduction to drow society sounds perfect. If a man gets uppity the women attack.

You already said they are evil. You already said they are in a chaotic plane.

Large group of drow sounds like a lot of laughs to me.

Please refer to 1st statement.

Oh personal note where in the real world are you playing?