What if Elan is a descendant of Thor?

[FaithlessCleric]

I had this thought ever since I first saw Thor appear in the comic.

I don't have much proof other than the fact both of them are blond (which doesn't count, since Belief is a big factor on the world), and Thor referenced Elan on the last panel of 1146, tbh.

But why the **** not? Oh right, demigods, if they are not badass (Kratos comes to mind), they tend to suck.

[Bad Wolf]

I had this thought ever since I first saw Thor appear in the comic.

I don't have much proof other than the fact both of them are blond (which doesn't count, since Belief is a big factor on the world), and Thor referenced Elan on the last panel of 1146, tbh.

But why the **** not? Oh right, demigods, if they are not badass (Kratos comes to mind), they tend to suck.

If anything, Odin would be a better fit. Uses magic, can be a little crazy but also has his genius moments, and has a fondness for puppets.

[Fish]

Elan is a descendant of Tarquin. This theory would make Tarquin a descendant of Thor.

It would also mean Familicide came a couple of steps away from wiping out a pantheon of gods.

[Fyraltari]

I don't really see what purpose a reveal like that would serve.

Elan is a descendant of Tarquin. This theory would make Tarquin a descendant of Thor.

It would also mean Familicide came a couple of steps away from wiping out a pantheon of gods.
Last I checked Elan had two parents.

[Ginasius]

There was a pair of twin brothers in Greek mythology who shared the same mother but the father of one of them was mortal and the father of the other was a god.

I don't think the idea on which this thread is based is going to be "true" but I bring this possibility: Tarquin's son is evil, and the other son is good (and not very smart) because he is not Tarquin's.

[woweedd]

There was a pair of twin brothers in Greek mythology who shared the same mother but the father of one of them was mortal and the father of the other was a god.

I don't think the idea on which this thread is based is going to be "true" but I bring this possibility: Tarquin's son is evil, and the other son is good (and not very smart) because he is not Tarquin's.
Elan's good because he was raised by his CG mom, rather then his LE dad. Rich is a believer in nurture, not nature. As for his stupidity, that's, according to comic 350, the result of childhood brain damage. Plus, i'd argue that, while Nale may be smarter then Elan, he probably has even less Wisdom. Seriously, Nale's pretty much the archetypal "high Intelligence, Low Wisdom" character, and Elan could be read as a Forrest Gump-esque "Low Intelligence, High Wisdom" type.

[Dion]

But why the **** not? Oh right, demigods, if they are not badass (Kratos comes to mind), they tend to suck.

Yeah, Elan is pretty much useless. So that doss support your theory.

[Peelee]

But why the **** not?

https://media.giphy.com/media/lYKvaJ8EQTzCU/giphy.gif

[Ruck]

Elan's good because he was raised by his CG mom, rather then his LE dad. Rich is a believer in nurture, not nature.
I think it's oversimplifying to say that's definite in any way.

[factotum]

https://media.giphy.com/media/lYKvaJ8EQTzCU/giphy.gif

Agreed. Is there any possible reason why this being the case would improve the story in any way? Because it sounds like the only reason for doing this would be a literal deus ex machina--e.g. the Order get into a bad situation and it turns out they escape from it by Elan learning of his divine heritage and using a previously unseen demigod power to do it.

[Mad Humanist]

Agreed. Is there any possible reason why this being the case would improve the story in any way? Because it sounds like the only reason for doing this would be a literal deus ex machina--e.g. the Order get into a bad situation and it turns out they escape from it by Elan learning of his divine heritage and using a previously unseen demigod power to do it.

It could also be seen as a "blond white males have superpowers and save the day narrative". I can't see the Giant going down that route somehow.

[woweedd]

I think it's oversimplifying to say that's definite in any way.
It seems pretty clear.

[Ruck]

It seems pretty clear.

If it did, I wouldn't have said what I said.

Can you provide support for this assertion?

[Goblin_Priest]

It could also be seen as a "blond white males have superpowers and save the day narrative". I can't see the Giant going down that route somehow.

Did I miss the rule stating that blond white males are disallowed from saving the day?


Elan's good because he was raised by his CG mom, rather then his LE dad. Rich is a believer in nurture, not nature. As for his stupidity, that's, according to comic 350, the result of childhood brain damage. Plus, i'd argue that, while Nale may be smarter then Elan, he probably has even less Wisdom. Seriously, Nale's pretty much the archetypal "high Intelligence, Low Wisdom" character, and Elan could be read as a Forrest Gump-esque "Low Intelligence, High Wisdom" type.

Oh, oh! What if... Elan was raised by his CG mom, and Nale, by... his mom's LE consort of the time! What if... she had a little affair with Thor, and Tarquin isn't either one's dad!?

Eh!? Eh!? What if!

:smallbiggrin:

[Fyraltari]

Did I miss the rule stating that blond white males are disallowed from saving the day?
Yes because the issue would have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the white, blond blue-eyed man would save the day thanks to his superior genetic heritage that he got from a germanic-scandinavian god, by the way. I'm sure this would not send any kind of message, no sir.


Oh, oh! What if... Elan was raised by his CG mom, and Nale, by... his mom's LE consort of the time! What if... she had a little affair with Thor, and Tarquin isn't either one's dad!?

Eh!? Eh!? What if!

:smallbiggrin:
Consort who just happen to look exactly like older versions of the twins.

[D.One]

Considering Elan's complete lack of beard, I'd say he's not descendant of Thor. Balder, maybe, but not Thor.

[hamishspence]

Elan's inability to grow a beard is due to the goo Nale used to stick Nale's beard to Elan's face:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html

[Lombard]

What if Elan is a descendant of Thor. What if.

https://cdn1.thr.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/landscape_928x523/2018/05/hd_winkler_waterskis-h_2018.jpg

[Dion]

Elan's inability to grow a beard is due to the goo Nale used to stick Nale's beard to Elan's face:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0388.html

Those are just facts. Everyone knows you can use facts to prove anything thats true.

[Potatopeelerkin]

Nah. Everyone knows Elan is a descendant of the flumphs.

[dtilque]

Note that the question is about being a descendant, not necessarily a son. Elan could be Thor's grandson through his mother, for example. And then there's the fact that Thor used to be a redhead. Haley's a redhead, maybe she's Thor's granddaughter. Could Haley and Elan be cousins?

[MoonCat]

The fact that no one's brought up that this would pair nicely with Haley's mom being a celestial makes me feel so old. Have we forgotten all the epileptic trees of the past?

[Fyraltari]

The fact that no one's brought up that this would pair nicely with Haley's mom being a celestial makes me feel so old. Have we forgotten all the epileptic trees of the past?

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/81035007/i-was-there-3000-years-ago.jpg

EDIT: Just remembered Elrond has divine ancestry!

[D.One]

Have we forgotten all the epileptic trees of the past?

May Lord Odin bless that.

[woweedd]

Note that the question is about being a descendant, not necessarily a son. Elan could be Thor's grandson through his mother, for example. And then there's the fact that Thor used to be a redhead. Haley's a redhead, maybe she's Thor's granddaughter. Could Haley and Elan be cousins?
They're both 1/58th Thor. Which, granted, also applies to everyone in the North.

[Fyraltari]

They're both 1/58th Thor. Which, granted, also applies to everyone in the North.

Coincidentally, everyone in the North is also at least 1/24th Loki (he gets around a lot).

[Peelee]

Coincidentally, everyone in the North is also at least 1/24th Loki (he gets around a lot).

If we keep going, I'm pretty sure we'll end up at everyone in the North being Freya.

[D.One]

If we keep going, I'm pretty sure we'll end up at everyone in the North being Freya.

There must be a reason Odin is also called the Allfather...

[Doug Lampert]

They're both 1/58th Thor. Which, granted, also applies to everyone in the North.
Quite possibly.


Coincidentally, everyone in the North is also at least 1/24th Loki (he gets around a lot).
Quite likely, and note that in Loki's case "everyone" includes livestock and monsters. He really got around.


If we keep going, I'm pretty sure we'll end up at everyone in the North being Freya.
Well, it's not like she's the bringer of pestilence.
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html)

There must be a reason Odin is also called the Allfather...
Probably true.

[Synesthesy]

I think that Elan is actually a descendant of Banjo who, after becaming an official full god and a member of the northern pantheon, traveled back in time. Then he schapechange into Tarquin, and become the father of his own creator.
Considering the creator of a puppet a "father", this means that Banjo is the grandfather of himself.

All of this for a bet he will take in the future with a drunk Thor, on a Loki suggestion. Why Loki did that? For the lulz.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

I had this thought ever since I first saw Thor appear in the comic.

I don't have much proof other than the fact both of them are blond (which doesn't count, since Belief is a big factor on the world), and Thor referenced Elan on the last panel of 1146, tbh.

But why the **** not? Oh right, demigods, if they are not badass (Kratos comes to mind), they tend to suck.

If no one else has mentioned this (I'm too lazy) unless I'm wrong Thor or any of the gods acting on the world after its creation in any way besides granting spells to his clerics breaks their rules. So he couldn't have Elan as a kid even if he wanted to.

[martianmister]

If Elan is a descendant of Thor, then Haley must be a descendant of Loki. Which also would explain her secret origins.

[Ron Miel]

Elan's good because he was raised by his CG mom, rather then his LE dad. Rich is a believer in nurture, not nature.


I think it's oversimplifying to say that's definite in any way.


It seems pretty clear.


If it did, I wouldn't have said what I said.

Can you provide support for this assertion?

Rich's comments here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222955-Disappointing-Fathers-and-Saintly-Mothers-in-OOTS&p=12242039#post12242039)imply there is an upcoming storyline that will deal with this very question. Certainly, we can't say yet that his alignment is due to his upbringing.


Oh, and I've always thought that Haley is descended from Loki. That's her last secret from the restaurant scene.

[Rrmcklin]

Rich's comments here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222955-Disappointing-Fathers-and-Saintly-Mothers-in-OOTS&p=12242039#post12242039)imply there is an upcoming storyline that will deal with this very question. Certainly, we can't say yet that his alignment is due to his upbringing.


Oh, and I've always thought that Haley is descended from Loki. That's her last secret from the restaurant scene.

That comment doesn't imply that at all. The Giant said people were misinterpreting why Elan behaved why he did in certain situations, and then clarified why Elan behaved that way. There's no implication of anything deeper, and certainly not a storyline about Elan's "origins".

Haley being descended from Loki is about as likely as Elan being descended from Thor, i.e. not at all.

[Fyraltari]

That comment doesn't imply that at all. The Giant said people were misinterpreting why Elan behaved why he did in certain situations, and then clarified why Elan behaved that way. There's no implication of anything deeper, and certainly not a storyline about Elan's "origins".

Haley being descended from Loki is about as likely as Elan being descended from Thor, i.e. not at all.

I think Ron Miel meant the "events that have yet to happen" thing.
I also think that's Blood Runs in the Family.

[Emanick]

That comment doesn't imply that at all. The Giant said people were misinterpreting why Elan behaved why he did in certain situations, and then clarified why Elan behaved that way. There's no implication of anything deeper, and certainly not a storyline about Elan's "origins".

Haley being descended from Loki is about as likely as Elan being descended from Thor, i.e. not at all.

Well, at least Haley being descended from Loki would address a dangling plot thread, namely the secret that she still hasn't revealed. Elan's divine heritage would come completely out of left field, with no foreshadowing whatsoever, and would also come with the problematic blonde-white-male-is-godlike baggage that has already been pointed out.

I'd give the "Elan-is-Thor" thing a 1 in 10,000,000 chance of being true, and the "Haley is a descendant of Loki" thing a 1 in 200,000 chance. A relative bargain, if you're a compulsive gambler who dreams of winning against long odds. :smalltongue:

[Rrmcklin]

Well, at least Haley being descended from Loki would address a dangling plot thread, namely the secret that she still hasn't revealed. Elan's divine heritage would come completely out of left field, with no foreshadowing whatsoever, and would also come with the problematic blonde-white-male-is-godlike baggage that has already been pointed out.

I'd give the "Elan-is-Thor" thing a 1 in 10,000,000 chance of being true, and the "Haley is a descendant of Loki" thing a 1 in 200,000 chance. A relative bargain, if you're a compulsive gambler who dreams of winning against long odds. :smalltongue:

Honestly, it strikes me less a dangling plot thread, and more an innocuous moment that people are putting much more weight in than they should, because other media has trained them to do so.

But let's say that's not the case and Haley is somehow a descendent of Loki, then what? Does she randomly pull out god powers from her ass during a climactic moment, but it won't be bull**** because of "foreshadowing" of her apparently knowing about godly heritage before hand?

And if the above doesn't happen I could see no purpose for it at all; we already have Durkon for the divine stuff.

[Emanick]

Honestly, it strikes me less a dangling plot thread, and more an innocuous moment that people are putting much more weight in than they should, because other media has trained them to do so.

But let's say that's not the case and Haley is somehow a descendent of Loki, then what? Does she randomly pull out god powers from her ass during a climactic moment, but it won't be bull**** because of "foreshadowing" of her apparently knowing about godly heritage before hand?

And if the above doesn't happen I could see no purpose for it at all; we already have Durkon for the divine stuff.

Rich could probably think of a decent way to have a "Haley is a descendant of Loki" reveal play out, but I agree that it's extremely unlikely and shouldn't happen, and that just because a throwaway line established that Haley is hiding something, that doesn't mean that anything and everything that she could theoretically do would suddenly make sense.

My point is more along the lines of "not all extremely unlikely things are created equal."

As an aside, I know it's a common metaphor, but whenever someone refers to pulling something out of their rectum, I get an extremely unpleasant mental image and I inwardly cringe. Tragic.

[Ron Miel]

That comment doesn't imply that at all. The Giant said people were misinterpreting why Elan behaved why he did in certain situations, and then clarified why Elan behaved that way. There's no implication of anything deeper, and certainly not a storyline about Elan's "origins".


I think Ron Miel meant the "events that have yet to happen" thing.

This is correct. The question was, would their alignments differ if each had been brought up by the other parent. The Giant replied that he can't answer as it would be a spoiler for future events. I'm interpreting this as a hint that a coming story will address this point. It's possible this is an incorrect interpretation, but I think it's a reasonable one.



I also think that's Blood Runs in the Family.

BRitF was already about halfway through when he made the comment. I don't see anything in the remaining half that addresses the point. I think it's still in the future.

[Ruck]

This is correct. The question was, would their alignments differ if each had been brought up by the other parent. The Giant replied that he can't answer as it would be a spoiler for future events. I'm interpreting this as a hint that a coming story will address this point. It's possible this is an incorrect interpretation, but I think it's a reasonable one.




BRitF was already about halfway through when he made the comment. I don't see anything in the remaining half that addresses the point. I think it's still in the future.

Along those lines, we've still never met Elan's mother nor learned his last name, both things that could turn out to be relevant before the end of the story. Don't ask me how, though-- although I doubt it will be because Elan has divine ancestry.

[D.One]

This is correct. The question was, would their alignments differ if each had been brought up by the other parent. The Giant replied that he can't answer as it would be a spoiler for future events. I'm interpreting this as a hint that a coming story will address this point. It's possible this is an incorrect interpretation, but I think it's a reasonable one.

Where's that quote? I smell Elseworlds/What If? material here... :smallwink:

[Ron Miel]

Where's that quote? I smell Elseworlds/What If? material here... :smallwink:


Seriously? You really can't see it in my previous post?

Fine, here's another link to the quote.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222955-Disappointing-Fathers-and-Saintly-Mothers-in-OOTS&p=12242039#post12242039

And the relevant text:

jidasfire : If their positions had been reversed, would Nale be good and Elan evil, would they be their current alignments, or would they both perhaps have ended up True Neutral?


The Giant : I can't answer that one without giving away events that have yet to be revealed. Sorry.

[D.One]

Seriously? You really can't see it in my previous post?

Fine, here's another link to the quote.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222955-Disappointing-Fathers-and-Saintly-Mothers-in-OOTS&p=12242039#post12242039

And the relevant text:

jidasfire : If their positions had been reversed, would Nale be good and Elan evil, would they be their current alignments, or would they both perhaps have ended up True Neutral?


The Giant : I can't answer that one without giving away events that have yet to be revealed. Sorry.

Seriously, I couldn't, and thanks for sending it again. Now I saw the link. :smallsmile:

Just to clarify, when I said I was smelling "Elseworlds/What If? material" there, I wasn't talking about your post per se, but about the Giant's speech, since I can totally see him, instead of showing it on the main story, doing some extra material "Elseworlds/What If?" where we see that hypothesis (Elan created by Tarquim, Nale by their mother) shown.

[MReav]

I don't believe that Thor is Elan's ancestor, but if he is, given Thor's depiction as a deity that really gets around, half the continent would probably qualify.