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View Full Version : Gamer Drama The Gm is unfair. And i cant complain. Need to vent x.x



Nyan
2018-11-10, 11:53 PM
So. Before i go any further im gonna make stuff clear.

Im not intending to leave the group. It is not an option.
I love my group and the gm to death no matter what stuff they pull.
In the end im still having fun.

With that out of the way...The **** that really grinds my gears...

Introducing the group.

GM ofc

Spore druid (me)
Monk
Ranger
Wizard

We are level 7


So during the course of our campain long story short the dm figured he would do some homebrewing to give us some extra abilities that would be cool and fun. Im a big fan of homebrewing stuff and adding new things as long as it does not go way to crazy and usualy is kept within the boundaries and guidelines of the game. So i figured yeah it could be fine.

He would present it to us as 3 different paths we could take much like archetypes that would grow in power as we progress. I will not enter all of them but simply the ones we chose. And we would get a few abilities and boosts accordingly.

He made a few statments that are key here.

"They might be too good within the rules of the base game." Which is totaly fine if he can manage the extra headache of balancing encounters.

"Ill balance these paths for all of you between one another." This gave me the impression he knew what he was doing and at least makes our extra stuff feel fair in comparison to another.

Now as stuff progressed i would very soon find out this would not be the case...ill tell you the stuff i know so far.

The wizard he chose a path of enchantment.

He got one extra language.
+1 extra dice on his cantrips
3 extra spells of the enchantment school that is of any levels he can currently cast. (Which is at highest 4th)

Once per day (we all got one of these)
He may cause a target to have disadvantage on their saving throw against his enchantment spell. (Only later has he added it trumps magic resistance and immunity to charm/frighten/mind-effecting stuff. After i had pointed it out comparing with other once per day stuff we got.)

So far so good.

The monk chose the path of the monkey

Learned to speak with animals but he cant understand them.
+1 dice to his unnarmed strikes
+5 reach on his attacks
When he attacks someone they cant make AoO towards him
Climb speed equal to his regular speed

Once per day
He may use his flurry of blows twice on a single turn. So 2 more attacks (dont remember if it cost him ki but i think it didnt.)

SO. Already clearly there is a difference between these two. The monk clearly got more stuff and as for the relative strenght of the abilities themselves it seems alright. But things got worse as it progressed to me and the last player. The ranger.

The path i chose for my spore druid was the path of the poison ivy.

I get to speak with plants and i understand them without spells (already better than the monks extra language)

+1 damage dice to my cantrips (same as wizard and the monk)

+5 reach to my spell attacks, regular attacks and cantrips (now i got something like the monk while wizard got left out.)

+3 extra damage to my Halo of spore ability (use a reaction on my turn to deal poison damage to a foe within 10ft) (Again the wizard seems left out in the number of stuff we are getting.)

When people hit me they take my halo of spore damage.

I can use Reckless attack but works for spell attacks too.

3 extra spells just like the wizard that are always preped but they have to be offensive spells. No limitation on school.

A recharge ability that recharges on a d6 by rolling 5-6. Which deals 4d6 peircing damage in a 15ft cone and people save for half and then save again or become poisoned for 1 min and continue saving at the end of their turns. (Notice how im not even at my last ability yet)

Once per day....
Create a 25ft radius sphere. Everyone in the area besides me and zombies i create with my spore abilities are automatically poisoned unless they are immune. They save con to halve 8d8 poison damage at the begining of their turns. And if they die inside of this area become zombies i control for 1 hour like my other spore ability from my archetype. (But better since they dont have 1 hp etc)

So yeah. Poison and the condition is a very much resisted one but clearly this ability is waaaay better than the rest previously stated....and i got more stuff...and no. Im more concerned rather than happy about it.


Now finaly for the last player. The ranger. I only know his once per day ability but he did things differently with him.

He spoke with the player directly and asked for ways to make the abilities and his paths. When he had with the rest of us completley kept things quiet and did it on his own. Despite me offering myself to help adjust and work out the abilities since i have played for a very much longer time and i figured i could make things even.

So now... here is the ability as far as ive learned.

His path is called the path of the void dragon

Once per day

Creates a litteral black hole covering a 15ft square. (Dont know how far away he can place it from himself.)

It starts sucking in everyone he has not declared as his allies towards the hole. The range of this is 120feet

He might be able to dispel it whenever he pleases.

I dont know the duration.

They make a constitution save at the beginning of their turn and if they SUCCEED they are pulled 15ft towards it...UNLESS they have a solid thing to hold on to in which case they dont go closer at all.

If they FAIL they are pulled 30ft towards the hole.

Once a creature gets sucked in to the edge of the orb they stop no matter how much they had left to be moved. Now thir movment speed for their turn is 0 but can act normal otherwise.

If spaces fill up around the orb. The same thing happens to people 10ft away once it does not have more space around it.

Now at the begining of their subsequent turns they make a con save again to not fall in to the hole. Again their movement is 0 as long as they are in the edge.

If they do fall in to the hole. They dissapear in to the void and is gone. No matter the creature or monster that they are.

On further questions regarding this... He says he rolls on a d100 to see where they end up...He has hinted they might end up someplace else. Or someplace else in time or in the case of a 1 are lost for ever. Or with a 100 end up exactly where they would want to be...So in short...its up to the gms whim....But they are removed from the encounter entierly....

And he makes a second comment that the ranger also has OTHER abilities that may be powerfull too...So...Yeah...we got some cool abilities but here the ranger comes with a "I WIN" Button....

And im in a situation where i cant say anything cause i dont want to sound like im whining and am upset cause his ability is more powerfull than mine. And i will probably be met with (we make adjustments later if we notice its broken)

But it is broken...right now. And i know for a fact the other players the monk and the wizard is not going to like the difference in our stuffs power in general.

I could not care less but i want to avoid people feeling left out.

And i notice clear favoritism but again i dont wanna be "that guy who complains all the time" and the ranger and the gm is closer friends than i am with the gm. So clearly he listens to him more than me.

Not saying im better than anyone else...but this...i cant stand it. Why not fix it at once? Cant he see that the abilities are CLEAR AS DAY more powerfull than the others?

So im in a position where i cant complain to the gm directly and try to set things straight cause he does not listen and i dont wanna be "that guy"

I cant talk to the other players either about it cause i dont wanna go behind anyones back either.

So im stuck with this...

Thoughts, oppinions, simular kinds of stories, All things are welcome. Rant over.

TheYell
2018-11-11, 01:30 AM
I have learnt through my life, rather than be the guy who keeps his mouth shut and seethes, to speak up or stop caring.

I suggest you figure out what you want, and ask for it publicly.

You apparently want some homebrewed powers, but you want them balanced. I suggest you try to balance some yourself. You'd have to ask other people, because the most I ever wanted was an extra feat. Give the monk a ranged Ki attack? Give the wizard two brains that can multitask each turn? I mean, you got some gonzo power abilities going in your circle.

But it strikes me that you'd be happier if you actually spoke up about it to the group instead of resenting that your powers are imbalanced and you dont want to complain but you do silently. For all you know, they think you're the silent guy who never contributes an idea, rather than applauding you for being a team player.

Coventry
2018-11-11, 01:41 AM
Your party make up consisted of two primary casters (Wizard, Druid) and two melee (Ranger, Monk). Your party was already unbalanced - two classes that tend to be ranked as tier 1, and two classes that tend to be ranked as tier 4.

It seems like the monk is the one that got the shaft, here.

Your description of the Black Hole ability for the Ranger does not scream "I WIN" at me ... instead, I am hearing "I WIN COMBAT ... with a painful side effect or two". (Think of that a being said in the Genie's voice where he says "Phenomenal cosmic power ... itty bitty living space").

If your DM's playing style is nearly all combat, with almost no role playing, then the black hole will solve "nearly all" scenarios he or she throws at you. But once your scenarios step away from combat ...

Diplomatic scenarios? That black hole is not going to help. If used, it may make things far worse.
Stealth scenarios? That will leave evidence behind.

The painful side effects?

Against an enchanter that causes your ranger to switch sides, the rest of your party is in trouble.
When your enemy disappears, all of the loot that enemy is carrying will disappear, too. "Oh, you wanted his bow?"



How I would handle the situation you describe:

I would simply say (to everyone), "wow, that ability seems really broken to me. Well, let's give it a shot, anyway."

You may find that you enjoy the challenge of playing in a team of characters with a power imbalance.

Darth Ultron
2018-11-11, 03:05 AM
Well, I might point out that they might not ''love" you as much as you ''love" them. Most friendly people can avoid doing such things in the game, just by using common sense. But not everyone.

The black hole ability as you describe it seems broken. And chances are that it's not that they are clueless about it, but the DM and ranger character guy don't care.

I'd be even willing to bet that the DM was of the type where you could have picked the ''path of the hot toad" that let you cause the sun go nova...but it's YOUR fault you did not pick that.

My real answer is find a better group to play with.

I'm not sure why you'd want to stay...if you feel you can't ignore the stuff...but also feel you can't say anything? See, not only would true, real friends not do such 'stuff'...but even if they did by accident, you could still always talk to them about anything. It is what separates a real friend from ''I know that guys name".

I guess you can just play the game...maybe your character will kill a goblin or two. And that other player will be like '''hahahaha, my character just blew up a moon of one million god goblins!" And you can just...well, clap, I guess.

You could do the passive aggressive thing of just sitting there and not really engaging in the game much. Or just have your character slip and fall into the black hole. Then just watch You Tube videos (did you watch the little bear cub on the snowy mountainside yet?)

Eventually the game will end...and life will go on.

And I might recomend that in any future games with this DM or player everyone agrees to the rule of ''no hose rules ever"

noob
2018-11-11, 04:08 AM
Well maybe the gm is too much used to gming for TO 3.5 and so considers stuff like those abilities are fine and harmless when compared to spellcasting.
But then he would have given the monk more useful abilities.
In 5e high level casters are as silly as in 3.5 if you are starting to use mirage arcana or other high power plot spells of this kind(such as wish for a simulacrum that casts wish for a simulacrum and so on)
So I guess that the team will be balanced in star time if you get one fourth of the time in fights, one fourth of the time in wizarding for reshaping the world, one fourth of the time in druiding for reshaping the world and one fourth of the time involve the monk being useful.
for that you would need some way to give some sort of intense utility to the monk that could make it shine one fourth of the time such as "You win at diplomacy and bluff and sense motive" while still giving it enough fighting powers for it to think "it is totally balanced when compared to that black hole power" and maybe give at will teleport to the monk later for feeling useful at the moment the casters starts really reshaping the world(and bunch all that in the path of the throne archon or something like that possibly in addition to his previous path).

Fable Wright
2018-11-12, 01:52 PM
Your party make up consisted of two primary casters (Wizard, Druid) and two melee (Ranger, Monk). Your party was already unbalanced - two classes that tend to be ranked as tier 1, and two classes that tend to be ranked as tier 4.

He's speaking of 5e archetypes and mechanics, where the 3.5 tiers aren't so much of a thing.

noob
2018-11-12, 03:05 PM
He's speaking of 5e archetypes and mechanics, where the 3.5 tiers aren't so much of a thing.

in 5e a wizard can decide "It is time to make more of me" and make an infinite wizard army.
a 5e monk or ranger can not.
In 5e a druid can decide "here is that animal that could have seen the criminal I am going to talk to it" or "I am going to make a city with intelligent bears and with intelligent tree houses too" or yet "I am going to be an owl and go everywhere an owl could go without being suspected too much" while a 5e ranger or a 5e monk can not.
It stays fundamentally broken since the core mechanics that made casters more polyvalent than the others were the spells and they kept those mostly the same.

Knaight
2018-11-12, 06:40 PM
It stays fundamentally broken since the core mechanics that made casters more polyvalent than the others were the spells and they kept those mostly the same.

With several critical changes. Concentration kills buff stacking, the removal of autoscaling takes a dimension off caster growth (where linear vs. quadratic has always been a few dimensions short for both), and those two factors scale casters down dramatically, leaving just a few really dubious spells.

Fable Wright
2018-11-12, 07:06 PM
in 5e a wizard can decide "It is time to make more of me" and make an infinite wizard army.
a 5e monk or ranger can not.
In 5e a druid can decide "here is that animal that could have seen the criminal I am going to talk to it" or "I am going to make a city with intelligent bears and with intelligent tree houses too" or yet "I am going to be an owl and go everywhere an owl could go without being suspected too much" while a 5e ranger or a 5e monk can not.
It stays fundamentally broken since the core mechanics that made casters more polyvalent than the others were the spells and they kept those mostly the same.

Banning Simulacrum is an improvement for game balance, yes, but outside a few known broken combinations...

The Druid can ask nearby animals for information, while the ranger can, well, search for clues at a very good bonus and get details am animal wouldn't comprehend. A Druid, with 50,000 gold, can make a small town of 50 intelligent critters, while a ranger with the same funds can just build a small town with farmers and craftsmen that do useful things.

Only the ranger can guarantee navigation to a location without risk of getting lost, even to a location you can't Find the Path to. Only the Monk can stun people without concentration on demand, or five point palm exploding heart technique someone for a form of leverage no spell can replicate. The Druid utterly fails if he can't concentrate on spells or faces an enemy with Counterspell, while the Monk and Ranger are never dead weight in combat.

Magic users have a potent niche. But they cannot make the existence of other classes irrelevant anymore. A wizard cannot outstealth a rogue because he put his mind to it. A Druid can, but has difficulty with nova potential and enemy casters.

Magic users are good at out of combat stuff and opening doors that can't be opened without magic. No longer can they just obviate other characters, though. Tiers are no longer as game defining as they were in 3.5e, even if some options are unsurprisingly stronger than others.

Jay R
2018-11-12, 08:43 PM
First of all, play with it before you decide how badly it hurts play.

You don't know everything about it.
You don't know if it has bad consequences that keep it from being used very often.
You don't know how often you will be in 15 foot rooms where he can't use it.
You don't know how the DM will react after he sees it in action.
You don't know if the DM will reduce its power after seeing it.
You don't know if the DM will increase the other players' powers.


And ultimately, just play and have fun. If you have useful things to do, it doesn't matter that the other player has a more powerful useful thing to do. He's your ally, not your rival.

Coventry
2018-11-12, 08:54 PM
He's speaking of 5e archetypes and mechanics, where the 3.5 tiers aren't so much of a thing.

Perhaps "not so much of a thing", but the imbalance is still a thing in 5e.

And that was my point - as described, the original party was imbalanced. Now it is imbalanced differently. If it truly is a problem, then I think Nyan should say something. Calmly, but still say something. It might change nothing, but at the very least it gives the DM some feedback about the results of the experiment ... and an opportunity to adapt.

Psikerlord
2018-11-12, 10:32 PM
I think just talk to everyone about what you think isnt working. If you think a power is broken, just say so. It's just a game, everyone's here to have fun, keep iterating the mechanic until it looks ok. It might take a few sessions to get there, but does that really matter? It will work out... unless it is blatant favouritism, and intentionally OP, in which case - well you have a larger problem, and really it still comes back to talking to everyone.

lunaticfringe
2018-11-12, 11:50 PM
Wow the Monk got shafted, they have solid Disengage options and can run up walls eventually already. What is their sub? Those last 2 abilities sound kinda redundant to me, I would definitely bring that up to the DM.

Tombguardians
2018-11-16, 02:49 PM
Sry to hear that. May be time to find someone new to DM