Multiclass suggestions

[KyleG]

Ok so with a couple of caveats i want to get some opinions on multi-classing the other class based on the below.

1. The level one abilities are 11/15/13 Wis-Int 11/12 or 12/11 with Chr at 16. ASI are open for suggestions.
2. By level 20 a max of 6 in wild magic sorcerer.
3. Id like to see a level 10 build and a level 20 build option.

[MThurston]

You may need to add more info.

If you go high Cha then Warlock Hexblade would be a suggestion.

[Aett_Thorn]

First off: why do you want to multiclass at all? Without knowing what you’re looking to get out of it, it’s pretty hard to offer suggestions.

[KyleG]

Im working things backwards to see what happens. These are his stats and now I'm trying to find a class that best fits. His sorceror abilities are unknown to him almost and he is scared of them but he can't hold them back entirely but in the meantime he has other skills that I, the player, want to see what he can do with this combo of stats. Right now he is still forming in my mind. Warlock and barbarians are actually the only classes I don't think he is as he has enough surprises with his own magic, nor the strength.
With these starting stats how nerfed would he be as a monk or ranger or an ancient/devout paladin? Could he for find peace as a cleric? As I write this I find that he would shy from wizardry but not necessarily druid magic. I could see him as a reluctant leader so he could face the team with these stats but not as a bard?

[lunaticfringe]

Assuming you posted stats in order he would not have the Str to multiclass in or out of Paladin.

I have a Wild Magic/Arcana Cleric concept built in my idea folder. Basically his powers manifested triggering a Wild Surge, terrifying the locals & causing harm. Word was sent to the temple of the god of magic and he was raised in the faith, eventually becoming a Cleric. So, yup I think the Concept of Cleric levels fits. You need lower Dex if you are using medium armor so if possible swapping the 15 to wisdom will make your life easier.

[KyleG]

Unfortunately the stats are what I have been dealt and im building around them.

[lunaticfringe]

Well without ASIs you are looking at Rogue, Fighter, Bard, Warlock as MC options. I would look into those classes first to reduce having increase stats just to be effective at your job.

Thief with Ritual Caster jumps out at me because it works (imho) as a Magic Dabbler who doesn't have to use Spell slots, which your character has but is reluctant to use.

[KyleG]

Well without ASIs you are looking at Rogue, Fighter, Bard, Warlock as MC options. I would look into those classes first to reduce having increase stats just to be effective at your job.

Thief with Ritual Caster jumps out at me because it works (imho) as a Magic Dabbler who doesn't have to use Spell slots, which your character has but is reluctant to use.

Thanks. Ill see what I can do with fighter, rogue, or the cleric as previously suggested.

I'm thinking that she will get a random spurt of energy every few levels which would be her sorcerer side leveling up instead of other class. Ill try and map those classes out to 10 and see what happens. Might even be more fun (if not annoying) to roll for a 30% ??? Chance of a sorcerer level?

[jdolch]

TBH I would start her as a Hexblade Warlock/Witch. I don't know if you can still pick the Race but if you can, then Half-Elf for 18 Cha. (If the race is already included in the stats then just get CHA over ASIs later)

IMO it fits perfectly in the "she is in over her head" theme if you play it as her being cursed by an entity from the Shadowfell and then discovering her true heritage over time as either a Shadow Sorcerer (basically picking the "dark side", maybe RP it as her ancestors having a pact with said entity) or Divine Soul (basically picking the "light side", discovering that the shadowfell entity is trying to corrupt one of the truly good guys). This is more thematic than really Good vs. Evil since the Shadowfell isn't necessarily evil (E.g. The Raven Queen is neutral).

Starting out as an (unwilling) Hexblade gives you quite a bit of leeway as to how to RP it. Since you can both start with the seemingly bland "I never asked for this" Melee Combatant (Your CHA is now your STR) and then progress to Discover your true calling as a "Power Overwhelming" Caster (Sorcerer) and Blaster (Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast).

Mechanically that's also probably the most optimal thing you can do with these Stats.

Just go 2 levels into Hexblade (or 3 if you want the 4 sorcerer points per short rest and Pact of the Tome+Book of ancient secrets evocation) and then all the way Sorcerer.

Edit: Guide (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?596310-GUIDE-The-Sorlock-%96-Guide-to-the-tormented-divine-soul-with-Xanathar-s-Divine-Soul(17)-Hexblade(3))

Edit: Damnit, now i want to play this character.

[KyleG]

Im going to explore that idea. im not sure that is who he is. Infact that isnt who he is. The scores are after race (human) and his sorcerer magic is wild so feel like he would be replacing one unlucky twist of fate with a potentially dangerous decision to enter into a pact.
But im going to have to seriously look at hexblade for a warlock im creating instead of the fiend

[jdolch]

I would paint it more as "He is cursed and then, over time, comes to grip with that and learns to use his innate magical Talent to make the curse work for him" more than making a pact. Maybe there is a pact, but maybe he wasn't the one who made it. Or maybe the is supposed to be a pact, but that's a lie ? Hex blade in particular doesn't really paint you into a corner, since you have this mysterious entity from the shadowfell (a neutral realm), who is neutral and inscrutable. You can basically make up whatever cool backstory you want and wave in all kinds of hooks for future fun and awesome RP Interactions. And remember you only take 2 or 3 levels in warlock, so after a short while you are really more of a Sorcerer+ than a Warlock per se.

[Keravath]

You didn't mention whether you had selected a race and whether racial adjustments were included in the numbers. (I later noticed you said human but didn't mention whether standard or variant ... you have so many odd numbers :) )

Anyway, with a maximum of 6 levels in wild magic sorcerer ... I'd be tempted to suggest the following:

str 15
dex 11
con 13
int 11
wis 12
cha 16

Paladin 11, wild magic sorcerer 6, hexblade (pact of the blade - which lets you use any pact weapon with charisma as your attack stat) 3.

Level 10 could be, 6 paladin, 3 sorcerer, hexblade 1.

A lot depends on what kind of charcter you would like and what you are looking to get out of it.

ASIs could be resilient con, +2 cha, wear heavy armor.

[jdolch]

He doesn't have 15 STR .... i think .... Not sure if he chose his class or it was given to him and i agree: It's surprisingly many odd numbers. I feel we should go back and do the Ability Score Assignment and Race Selection again.

[KyleG]

Ill ask dm if there is some ability score wiggle room. I know he wants the pt spend split between mental and physical as described...although those numbers are all +1 for human.

[KyleG]

What about a 14/13/13 across the physical and after the +1 to each for human. Those physical stats opens up paladin but Doesnt rule out a rogue or ranger either if either of those was interesting combo with the sorcerer and if I dropped 1 chr point could add it to wisdom. Its not an optimised build but it gives options.
So that would be (including racial) 14/13/13 11/14/15.

[jdolch]

What about a 14/13/13 across the physical and after the +1 to each for human. Those physical stats opens up paladin but Doesnt rule out a rogue or ranger either if either of those was interesting combo with the sorcerer and if I dropped 1 chr point could add it to wisdom. Its not an optimised build but it gives options.
So that would be (including racial) 14/13/13 11/14/15.

I still don't quite know what exactly your method of determining the Ability Spread is. But the Numbers you posted allow you to go classic Sorcadin. Ideally you want STR and CHA as high as you can push it and with even numbers (minimum is 13 of course for multiclassing). Then comes CON for more HP etc. and the rest you can basically dump to 10 or even 8. Also v.Human is better than Human.

That being said I now will assume that STR14 DEX13 CON13 INT11 WIS14 CHA15 is the best you can do for a start.

Level 1: Paladin1

Start as Paladin. This gives you access to all armors and all weapons and also Lay on Hands (which is awesome to revive fallen teammates without a roll, just transfer 1 HP and done). Pick Longsword, Shield and Chainmail for AC18. Your strength isn't high enough for Greatsword Builds.

Level 2: Paladin2

Gives you Divine Smite as a Nuke which is independent from your STR score. And also Paladin Spellcasting (e.g. Bless) but you will probably use your slots on DS.

[[Now you can either go Paladin 4(6) for Warcaster (and later Aura of Protection) OR you can switch to Sorcerer for a P2/S18 build. Basically one gives you a Paladin Oath, Extra Attack (which isn't all that great with low STR) and then Aura of Protection. The other gives you all the Sorcerer stuff, faster spell slot progression and level 9 spells later. I'll assume you take more Paladin Levels, the sorcerer Route is pretty self explanatory. See last Paragraph.]]

Level 3: Paladin3

Pick an Oath. Your Choice.

Level 4: Paladin4

Take the Warcaster Feat. You need it to cast spells with Somatic Components while holding a Shield and also to help you maintain concentration with your relatively low CON.

[[At this point you have to decide if you go Sorcerer immediately and grab Aura of Protection later or stay Paladin until P6, get AoP sooner, but stay weaker yourself for 2 levels longer. Depends on your Group and Campaign Situation. Keep in mind that CHA 15 only gives your Aura +2]]

Level 5: Sorcerer1

You get Sorcerer Spellcasting and 2nd level SLOTS. Make sure to take Shield from the Sorcerer spell list. if you are attacked you can cast Shield as a reaction giving you AC+5 immediately (including against the triggering attack) till your next turn.

Also make sure that you never take more so-so spells for sorcerer than you can change later. Sorcerers don't prepare new spells daily.

Pick a Sorcerous Origin. I recommend Red Draco or Divine Soul. Shadow is also nice if you really want to go full emo, which isn't a bad thing.

Also you get 4 Cantrips, which level with char level, not class level.

Take Booming Blade (BB) and Green Flame Blade (GFB), these are mandatory. They give you another Attack Option independent of your STR. They can be used with the Warcaster opportunity attack. If you picked Red Draco you also get a Bonus to your GFB. Also with level 5 they already are upgraded once.

Additionally pick 2 more cantrips. I recommend Minor Illusion, because its versatility is only limited by your imagination. And then maybe Lightning Lure. Its good for pulling enemies towards you and also repositioning Monsters (and teammates, just make sure you don't pull them all the way into the Thunderwall)

Level 6: Sorcerer2

You get Font of Magic. Which lets you, among other things, turn slots into points and vice versa.

Level 7: Sorcerer3

You get 3rd level spell slots for DS and 2nd level Sorcerer Spells.

You get 2 Metamagic. Take Quickened Spell (mandatory) and one more. I recommend Twinned Spell. One can make an argument for Careful Spell+Web (or Hypnotic Pattern) but it depends on the DM ruling that it still works in subsequent rounds and not just one time. RAW isn't clear on that afaik.

Now your Sorcadin is basically online. You can use BB/GFB with your action and then a second time with your bonus action and quickened spell, with an option to use Divine Smite (especially if you crit with the melee attack roll)

Level 8: Sorcerer4

You get an ASI. Take +1CON and +1CHA to make both Stats even. For your next ASI you will then up CHA to 18.

Level 9: Paladin5

Extra Attack, not really all that great for you but we want ...

Level 10: Paladin6

Aura of Protection. Now everyone in a 10ft Radius (including yourself) get +3 to ALL saving throws.

Level 11-20: Sorcerer 5-14

With your lvl 18 ASI up CHA to 20.
You'll reach Sorcerer Level 7 Spells at Level 19. And 9th level slots at 20.

-------------------

To be honest i am not sure if Aura of Protection is worth it with your relatively low CHA modifier. Maybe just go Paladin 2 and then switch to Sorcerer for good, taking Warcaster at level 6 and then even CON and CHA at level 10, upping CHA to 18 at lvl14.

If you want some more info, I'll just refer you to this excellent guide Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin-Sorcerer-Multiclass (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502673-Unlimited-Blade-Works-The-Guide-to-the-Ultimate-Paladin-Sorcerer-Multiclass)

[Finger6842]

Ok so with a couple of caveats i want to get some opinions on multi-classing the other class based on the below.

1. The level one abilities are 11/15/13 Wis-Int 11/12 or 12/11 with Chr at 16. ASI are open for suggestions.
2. By level 20 a max of 6 in wild magic sorcerer.
3. Id like to see a level 10 build and a level 20 build option.

For skills and slots you can MC Bard and Sorc:
STR 10 DEX 14 CON 12 WIS 12 INT 11 CHA 15 seems to be your starting stats
Add Half Elf for: STR 10 DEX 15 CON 13 WIS 12 INT 11 CHA 17
LVL 1 Bard 1
LVL 2 Bard 2
LVL 3 Lore Bard 3
LVL 4 Lore Bard 4, STR 10 DEX 16 CON 13 WIS 12 INT 11 CHA 18
LVL 5 Lore Bard 5
LVL 6 Lore Bard 6, Additional Magical Secrets
LVL 7 Sorcerer 1
LVL 8 Sorcerer 2, STR 10 DEX 18 CON 13 WIS 12 INT 11 CHA 18
LVL 9 Sorcerer 3 or Lore Bard 7
LVL 10 Lore Bard 7 or Sorcerer 3
LVL 11 Lore Bard 8
LVL 12 Lore Bard 9, STR 10 DEX 18 CON 14 WIS 12 INT 12 CHA 18 or resilient con for STR 10 DEX 18 CON 14 WIS 12 INT 11 CHA 18 if you have concentration concerns.

[KyleG]

Thank you both. I particularly like the paladin idea now that its possible.
Ive used pt buy for the stats plus human as the race for +1 to each.
My last question then would be. If you built this @level 10 would you have done things (asi, feats etc) differently given you didnt have to protect yourself thru early game?

[jdolch]

I don't think it would change the build too much, it just would make the question whether you want Aura of Protection vs better caster progression even more important. If you're starting at level 10 its more likely that you will see high level play and then it would actually matter if you reach spell level 7 or spell level 9.

So if you start at level 10 you can have

P2/S8: 4th level sorc spells with 4 3 3 3 1 slots AND later access to 9th level sorc spells (aka Wish)

or

P6/S4: 2nd level sorc spells with 4 3 3 1 slots BUT Aura of Protection, an Oath (Channel Divinity Features) and Extra Attack.

Sadly i can not tell you which is the better way. That's something you have to decide for yourself.
In my own game my Sorcadin will probably take Aura of Protection because 1. he rolled well and has 20 CHA (so +5) and 2. we play Curse of Strahd, which is a very deadly campaign and i figure my party can use all the advantage they can get. But i might actually make a thread on that and ask for opinions myself. Its not a clear cut decision.

[KyleG]

I don't think it would change the build too much, it just would make the question whether you want Aura of Protection vs better caster progression even more important. If you're starting at level 10 its more likely that you will see high level play and then it would actually matter if you reach spell level 7 or spell level 9.

So if you start at level 10 you can have

P2/S8: 4th level sorc spells with 4 3 3 3 1 slots AND later access to 9th level sorc spells (aka Wish)

or

P6/S4: 2nd level sorc spells with 4 3 3 1 slots BUT Aura of Protection, an Oath (Channel Divinity Features) and Extra Attack.

Sadly i can not tell you which is the better way. That's something you have to decide for yourself.
In my own game my Sorcadin will probably take Aura of Protection because 1. he rolled well and has 20 CHA (so +5) and 2. we play Curse of Strahd, which is a very deadly campaign and i figure my party can use all the advantage they can get. But i might actually make a thread on that and ask for opinions myself. Its not a clear cut decision.

You have been a tremendous help. Thanks.
Many thanks also for the second character you have inspired which I am also developing based on your earlier advice for the hexblade sorcerer. her parents make (and pay the price) for the pact to bind her dangerous sorceress powers so she starts as a warlock but maybe round level 3-5? her sorceress powers re-emerge. Grew up in a magic school (naïve)/on the streets (roguish) would each give a different flavor to her story skill sets. Perhaps even model her after the witchblade comic character.

[jdolch]

I am glad you could take something from that. Have fun playing :)