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Roderick_BR
2007-09-19, 03:08 PM
Okay, as promised, here are my suggestions to fix the feat trees, making them more useful, and (hopefully) less broken. My idea is to get feats that quickly lose it’s usefulness, and make them get better as the character levels up. I also grouped some feats in to feat trees, in hope to make them work better for customization.
My idea of fighters, and apparently WotC’s idea when they first released 3.0, is that a fighter can be customized, instead of getting a set package. Unfortunately, it led to dead levels, and no good high level options. My fix gives some abilities that, I hope, are general enough to a fighter without taking out the customization feel, and now I’m trying to change the feats, so a fighter can better use them, without unbalancing him to others meleers.
Basically, any character can get a feat tree, or “dip” in several feat trees, as long they can meet the prerequisites. Fighters, on the other hand, can get several different feat trees, allowing the player to custom the fighter as he wants it. I want to add variety to the fighter, not raw power.
Since some feats are not SRD, I won't post it whole here, only show the source, and changes, and a note on the change.

For reference, my fighter fix is here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56408

I believe some of these may still get overpowered, so I'm still trying to balance them. There are also lots of feats that I didn't check, like the Point Blank Shot and related feats.

Weapon Focus feat Tree

WEAPON FOCUS [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD
Changes: When you base attack bonus reaches +11, you gain an additional +1
Notes: When you reach higher levels, you practically gain Greater Weapon Focus for free, even without being a fighter. The actual Greater Weapon Focus feat no longer exists

WEAPON SPECIALIZATION [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD
Changes: When your fighter level reaches 11th, you gain an additional +2.
Notes: When you reach higher levels, you practically gain Greater Weapon Specialization for free, based on fighter levels. The actual Greater Weapon Focus feat no longer exists. If you use my fighter variation, and got the Armed fighting style, this feat becomes a class feature instead.

Power Attack feat Tree

POWER ATTACK [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD.
Changes: Light weapons add half the bonus, instead of none.
Notes: Just a minor change to don't make light weapons completely useless.

IMPROVED BULL RUSH [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD.
Changes: When reaching a base atack bonus +11, you count as one category bigger for purposes of gaining bonuses for this maneuver.
Notes: Like Weapon Focus, when you reach high level, you gain additional bonuses.

PUSH BACK [GENERAL]
Source: Miniatures handbook.
Changes: Prerequisite Str 15 instead of Str 17, base attack bonus +3. You can only push an enemy back, not to the sides. You don’t need to move into his square after moving, and can push him even if you can’t follow. You need to deal at least 10 points of damage to gain the free bull rush attempt.
Notes: Added more prerequisites, took out some limitation, and added others, based on feats like Knock Down.

SHOCK TROOPER [GENERAL]
Source: Complete Warrior.
Changes: Prerequisites: Str 15, and Push Back.
Notes: As it is, Shock Trooper is already good. I just added Push Back and a Str requisite to make it more worth to get, because this feat can be easily over powered at times.

CLEAVE [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD
Changes: None.
Notes: No need to change anything in this one.

GREAT CLEAVE [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD
Changes: Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +3 instead of +4. You can also make, once a round, one 5 feet adjust move, before one of your extra attacks.
Notes: Lowered one of the requisites, and when you get the benefit from Supreme Cleave, a class feature from some old 3.0 PrCs. Great cleave by itself is not really that useful, but the ability to move reduces its suckness a bit.

COMBAT BRUTE [GENERAL]
Source: Complete Warrior
Changes: Prerequisites: Str 15, Great Cleave instead of Improved Sunder.
Notes: Added a Str requisite, and now it's part of the Cleave feat tree, instead of Sunder. I think it works better with Sunder.

IMPROVED SUNDER [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD
Changes: When your base attack bonus reach +11, your weapon counts as one size category bigger when sundering objects.
Notes: Like Weapon Focus, when a character reaches higher levels, this feat gains a little boost, something it was needing.

IMPROVED OVERRUN [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD
Changes: When your base attack bonus reach +11, you count as one size category bigger for purposes of gaining bonuses for this maneuver.
Notes: Same as Improved Sunder.

Dodge Feat Tree

DODGE [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD
Changes: When your base attack bonus reach +11, you gain an additional +1 dodge bonus to AC for all attacks, besides the one against a selected enemy each round.
Notes: At lower levels, it's not a bad feat, but at higher levels, a little bonuses make it a bit more worth to pick.

MOBILITY [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD
Changes: Whenever you move 10fts or more, you gain a +4 dodge bonus to your AC until the beggining of your next turn.
Notes: Just a change, to grant the bonus all the time you sacrifice your full attacks. This is inspired in one stance from ToB.

SPRING ATTACK [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD
Changes: Prerequisites: Dex15 instead of Dex13, base attack bonus +3 instead of +4. When your base attack bonus reach +11, you can make 2 attacks as a standard action, whenever you move more than 10fts. You make both attacks at your full base attack bonus, with a –2 penalty for all attacks.
Notes: I mixed in Bounding Assault from PHB2 for when you get a high enough level.

WHIRLWIND ATTACK [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD
Changes: A complete rewritten of the feat.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: The Whirlwind Attack feat enables the use of three tactical maneuvers.
Improved Dodge: Gain a bonus equal to your Dex bonus as a dodge bonus against the opponent you select with Dodge, instead of the normal +1.
Tunneling Sprint: As part of a charge, you can use all your attacks, as if you were using a full attack action. You can make one attack after every 10ft you move. All attacks must be against diferent targets. If you are using two weapons or using flurry of blows, you can make two sets of attacks (1 normal, 1 bonus attack) against each target.
Cyclone swipe: When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach.
Special: A fighter may select Whirlwind Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Notes: Let's be honest: Whirlwind attack is cool looking, but sucks. You need a handful of bad feats, to gain a move you'll rarely use. So, I reduced the requisites, made the others feats less sucky, and turned it into a tactical feat, giving you access to 3 different moves. I think it has enough restrictions to don't make it overpowered.


Two-Weapon feat tree

Now, this is a classic feat tree with huge problems. I checked the forum for variants, and got myself a set that I think may work. I rewrote several of these feats, and added a tactical one in the end. Also notice that unlike the others feats, this one requires higher levels to get.

TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Dex 13.
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced by 2 points. –2 if you use two one-handed weapons, or no penalty if you use one light-weapon in your off-hand. You also gain one additional attack for each normal attack you can make in a round.
Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon when making a full attack. When fighting in this way you suffer a –4 penalty when using two one-handed weapons, or –2 when using one light weapon in your off-hand.
(An unarmed strike and one of the ends of a double weapon are always considered light.)
Special: A 2nd-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Two-Weapon Fighting, even if he does not have the prerequisite for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
A fighter may select Two-Weapon Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Notes: One thing I disliked about TWF, is that WotC said "if you are not an specialist in TWO, don't even think about it", so, it my high level fighter loses his greataxe, and picks two smaller weapons... he's not going to hit anything. Ever. With a -8/-4 to attack, it's a complete waste of time.
So, I made it that any character can use two weapons, with some penalty. If you get this feat, the penalties are lessened. Double weapons won't be completely useless, and using two weapons of the same size, while difficult, won't be impossible. You won't need oversized two-weapon fighting.
It also adds more attacks as you level up, so you don't need 2 more feats to start being useful. And it let you to get at least 2 hits when moving, so you won't lose attacks if your enemy keeps moving.
What I did was reduce the penalties, and push Improved TWF, Greater TWF, Oversized TWF (Complete Adventurer), and Dual Strike (Complete Adventurer), into TWF. It still requires two weapons, rising the costs, and is still a bit weaker than a two-handed weapon style, so I think it balances things.

TWO-WEAPON DEFENSE [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When wielding a double weapon or two weapons (not including natural weapons or unarmed strikes), you gain a +1 shield bonus to your AC, for each attack from your normal weapon.
When you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action, this shield bonus is increased in +1 for every +2 you normally receives.
Special: A 6th-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Two-Weapon Defense, even if he does not have the prerequisite for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
A fighter may select Two-Weapon Defense as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Notes: Like TWF, I pushed the Defense versions all into one, with diferent requisites

TWO-WEAPON POUNCE [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Defense, base attack bonus +11
Benefit: Replace the normal maneuver with: As part of a charge, you can attack with both your weapons. You can choose to lose the +2 bonus to hit, and treat your weapons as one size category larger for the purpose of dealing the base damage.
Special: A 11th-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Two-Weapon Pounce, even if he does not have the prerequisite for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
A fighter may select Two-Weapon Pounce as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Notes: Since you already can move and attack with both weapons in the TWF feat, this feat gives bonuses when charging.

TWO-WEAPON MASTERY [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 19, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Pounce , base attack bonus +16.
Benefit: The Two-Weapon Mastery feat enables the use of three tactical maneuvers.
Pin Shield: Like the feat from Sword and Fist.
Off-Hand Defense: Like the feat from Sword and Fist.
Two-Weapon Rend: Like the feat from Player’s handbook 2.
Notes: Another new tactical feat. This one combines TW-Rend with two older feats from Sword & Fist, that alone are not very powerful.


Shield feat tree

After the two-weapon fighting, shield is another not really good item to use, with crappy feats.

SHIELD SPECIALIZATION [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s Handbook 2.
Changes: Add the benefits of Active Shield Defense (Player’s Handbook 2). Apply to any shield used.
Notes: Each of these two feats are too weak alone.

SHIELD BLOCK [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Shield Specialization.
Benefit: When using a defensive maneuver, you gain a shield bonus equal to half the gained bonus, rounded down.
Special: A fighter may select Shield Block as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Notes: I didn't find anything like this, so I added this feat to make the use of a shield more relevant during a fight.

SHIELD DEFLECTION [GENERAL]
Source: Block Arrow from Heroes of Battle
Changes: Prerequisites: Shield Specialization, Shield Block. base attack bonus +3, no Dex minimum needed.
Notes: As it is, it's not a bad feat.

SHIELD MASTERY: [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Shield Specialization, Shield Block, Shield Deflection, Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: The Shield Mastery feat enables the use of three tactical maneuvers.
Shield Ward: Like the Shield Ward from Players Handbook 2
Shield Barrier: Whenever you are allowed a Reflex save to reduce damage in half, you can add your shield bonus to your Reflex save.
Shield Ally: As an immediate action, you can, once a round, assign an ally within your reach, and transfer all your shield bonus to him. While you cover the ally, you lose all the bonus your shield grants to you. You can, in the beggining of your turn, as a free action, put your shield back into place, to protect yourtself.
Special: A fighter may select Shield Mastery as one of his fighter bonus feats.
Notes: Shield ward by itself is not bad, but as I said, shield is an underpowered equipment. Giving some more options to maneuvers will make it more useful.


Finally, a little list to understand the new feats:



Weapon Focus
> Weapon Specialization

Power Attack
> Improved Bull Rush
> Push Back
> Shock Trooper
> Cleave
> Great Cleave
> Combat Brute
> Improved Sunder
> Improved Overrum

Dodge
> Mobilty
> Spring Attack
> Whirlwind Attack

Two Weapon Fighting
> Two Weapon Defense
> Two Weapon Pounce
> Two Weapon Mastery

Shield Specialization
> Shield Block
> Shield Deflection
> SHield Mastery

JackMage666
2007-09-19, 03:26 PM
I'm oly going to comment on one...


MOBILITY [GENERAL]
Source: Player’s handbook/SRD
Changes: Whenever you move 10fts or more, you gain a +4 dodge bonus to your AC until the beggining of your next turn.
Notes: Just a change, to grant the bonus all the time you sacrifice your full attacks. This is inspired in one stance from ToB.

It's too strong... Basically, a Scout gets this (and some damage) at... 15th level, I think. Theres another feat, Expeditious Dodge, in Races of the Wild, that gives I think +2 Dodge AC if you move 40 ft in a round. Either way, 4 AC for 10 ft is really, really good, but it drastically takes away from the Scout.

RMS Oceanic
2007-09-20, 11:45 AM
While turning the feats into growing feats (like Power Attack) is the right course of action, I believe just merging them like that doesn't go far enough. For Weapon Focus, a +2 total doesn't seem that impressive. Here's how I'd do it:

Weapon Focus: +1, with an additional +1 for every five BAB points.
Dodge: +1, with +1 for every five levels.
Weapon Specialization: +2, with +2 for each five fighter levels.
Skill Focus: +2, with +1 for every four levels. Doesn't stack with those feats that normally grant +2 to two skills, like Alertness
Alertness and its ilk: +1, with +1 for every five levels. Doesn't stack with Skill Focus
TWF: As yours, but Dex requirements stay for higher attacks.
TWD: Your way is fine, but I'd let it double when you use Combat Expertise for -2 or something.
Shield Specialization: +1, with +1 for every six levels.

Your TWF and Shield tactical feats have too harsh prerequisites, especially if you only want one or two of the options available.

And I agree, Mobility is too powerful as you propose it.