Non-Lethal Assassin (Pathfinder) Is this legit?

[Aevum]

Hi, so I've been playing a non-lethal rogue in a campaign for a bit and we're getting close to a point when we can look into prestige classes (as much as they aren't all that great to some) and I was considering picking up Assassin for the Death Attack feature. The way I've been playing the character is that he uses the Blade of Mercy trait which states: When striking to inflict nonlethal damage with any slashing weapon, you do not take the normal –4 penalty on your attack roll, and gain a +1 trait bonus to any nonlethal damage you inflict with a slashing weapon. and I recently picked up a feat called Throat Slicer which allows me to Coup de grace as a Standard Action instead of a Full-Round Action.

Unfortunately, it didn't really mix well with the theme because we've been ruling it that I can't Non-Lethally perform a Coup de grace and I've scoured the internet for solutions, and most answers given had been homebrew, but then I found something interesting. Pathfinder mentions that Nonlethal Damage is not “real” damage. and then I went to check the wording on Coup de grace and found it to say You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. which I found interesting because "damage dealt" to me means "real" damage.

My goal is to use the Assassin's Death Attack class feature to paralyze a target and perform nonlethal coup de grace while the target is paralyzed. I realize that excess nonlethal damage inflicts real damage, but this discovery of wording would potentially mean that the Coup de grace Fortitude Save is based on "DC 10 or Die" since nonlethal damage is 'fake' damage. But, we also want to make sure that what I'm doing is legit; which is why I've come here. Is it?

Additionally, I've been hitting road blocks in the narrow path when looking into advice on what abilities to pick up for this type of style. I'm aware of the sap adept/master feats but they don't work with slashing weapons. Basically trying to pull off a "rurouni kenshin" build.

[grarrrg]

Hi, so I've been playing a non-lethal rogue in a campaign for a bit and we're getting close to a point when we can look into prestige classes (as much as they aren't all that great to some) and I was considering picking up Assassin for the Death Attack feature. The way I've been playing the character is that he uses the Blade of Mercy trait which states: When striking to inflict nonlethal damage with any slashing weapon, you do not take the normal –4 penalty on your attack roll, and gain a +1 trait bonus to any nonlethal damage you inflict with a slashing weapon. and I recently picked up a feat called Throat Slicer which allows me to Coup de grace as a Standard Action instead of a Full-Round Action.

First problem I see is that you are likely improperly mixing Lethal and Nonlethal damage.
Rogue Sneak Attack: "With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty."
If your weapon deals Lethal by default, then the Sneak damage must ALWAYS be Lethal. You can't voluntarily change it. Blade of Mercy only removes the to-hit penalty.

You'll either have to switch to a Sap or something, or see if you can get a Merciful (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/merciful/) weapon.


but then I found something interesting. Pathfinder mentions that Nonlethal Damage is not “real” damage. ... which I found interesting because "damage dealt" to me means "real" damage.

For -most- intents and purposes Nonlethal is still treated as 'damage'. It is only not "real" in the sense that it doesn't cause obvious 'wounds' (not that such things are usually tracked in game anyway), and that it won't kill anything (excepting of course if you continue to beat on the victim relentlessly).


Additionally, I've been hitting road blocks in the narrow path when looking into advice on what abilities to pick up for this type of style. I'm aware of the sap adept/master feats but they don't work with slashing weapons. Basically trying to pull off a "rurouni kenshin" build.

Enforcer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/enforcer-combat), do Nonlethal damage > get a FREE Intimidate check!

Add Shatter Defenses (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/shatter-defenses-combat-final/) for extra fun!

Target not set-up for a Sneak?
Slap them for Nonlethal > trigger Enforcer > make them Shaken.
Now that they are Shaken, slap them again > trigger Shatter Defenses > make them Flat-Footed.
Now that they are Flat-Footed > SNEAK ATTACKS!

[Talverin]

Well, the edge of Kensin's blade was blunt, not sharp. That'd be Bludgeoning damage. I'd suggest asking your DM if you can use a mace that just happens to be shaped like a sword. That seems like the most elegant solution, as it returns you to being able to deal nonlethal damage (Pathfinder has the +1 Merciful enchantment that makes it nonlethal and deals additional 1d6 damage until suppressed) and deal bludgeoning for the Sap feats (Which are fantastic.)

If he wants to treat it as a double weapon, with one side being blunt and the other slashing, that's totally viable, too. The two halves just have to be enchanted seperately... Which might be good, considering you probably don't want an empty -1 on the actual cutting edge, and making the cutting edge Merciful would probably not be quite what you were looking for.

You should also check out the 'Underhanded' rogue talent which lets you deal maximum damage with a sneak attack as long as it's made with a concealed weapon and on the opening strike vs a flat-footed opponent. Limited uses per day, but it's incredibly effective at putting one dude out cold.

Edit: I got the sides of Kenshin's blade reversed.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Talverin
Well, the back of Kens[h]in's blade was blunt, not sharp.

I thought it was the other way around? I thought the ordinary striking edge was blunt, but the back edge was sharp, so he could use his techniques without killing unless he reversed the blade.

[animewatcha]

IIRC, pathfinder treats excess non-lethal damage ( over maximum hitpoints ) as lethal damage. 3.5e being you can stack as much non-lethal as you want without death.