Grapple-Hook Fighter!

[MintyNinja]

So I had an idea the other day and I wanted to run it by the Playground to see how others would react to it. The concept is a Fighter (or other Martial Class) that uses a Rope and a Grappling Hook as an Improvised Weapon. I think Tavern Brawler would be necessary, not only for the Prof. Bonus, but also that Bonus Action Grapple. From there I figured running up levels in Battle Master would be pretty cool with a ton of tricks available. I figured the base attack would be like a STR Whip that does Piercing instead of Slashing Damage, and from there it's up to the player to be creative.

What do you think? Would you allow this at your table? Can you improve on the build? Or is there anything obvious that I'm missing?

[Bannan_mantis]

from what I can see this would be something like a reskined whip with some abilities to allow for agility (like batman which would be cool) and some sort of long range grapple. I would allow this depending on how it is built, if you can use the grappling hook with extra manoeuvrability and long range grapples with just a few or one feat I would allow it and if you put it on a pre existing fighter subclass I would again allow it. Whips hit for 1d4 so they aren't as damage dealing as other weapons hence why it would be okay in my eyes. Also since you are going battle master you could benefit from the manoeuvres in funner ways, making someone who is 15 feet away from you trip or drop their weapon is gunna be useful so you could be more of a controlling fighter in a way.

[No brains]

Technically speaking, Tavern Brawler does not require you to hit with a Melee attack to give you the chance at the bonus grapple.... you might still have to walk over to them, but you could grapple with a grappling hook.

[Finback]

Just wanted to note, this is totally the M.O of the Kor race from Planeshift: Zendikar. I've been wanting to work up something similar for a while.

esp this art:

http://magic.wizards.com/sites/mtg/files/image_legacy_migration/mtg/images/daily/arcana/436_smite.jpg

[Man_Over_Game]

There's not anything official that supports grappling at range, outside of monster abilities.

Talk to your DM, though. At my tables, I have a modified weapon list, and one of the traits I add to things like Chains, Garrotes, Bolos, and Whips is the trait "Grappling", which allows you to use a weapon's attack attribute and reach for grapple attempts, but you can't use the weapon until the grapple is broken.

Chains are a 1d6, Reach, Two Handed, Grappling weapon. It's also the same chain that you see in the Equipment section, the kind that can bind people if needed.

Garrotes are a 0 damage, Finesse, Two Handed, Grappling, Special weapon. (Special being that initial grapple attempts with this weapon have advantage if you're hidden, grapple checks to maintain it have advantage, and the target is considered strangled while grappled)

Whips are a 1d6, Reach, Finesse, Grappling, Unbalanced weapon. (Unbalanced meaning it has disadvantage on attack rolls when an enemy is adjacent to you).

Bolos are a 0 damage, Thrown, Special Ranged Weapon (kinda like the Net). It uses your Attack roll for the attack to hit, and then it uses the same roll for the "Grapple" check, and continues to use that number for any sustained grapple checks from this weapon. It can be slashed off, just like the net.

These options aren't too terribly complicated, and add a lot of options for players. Your DM might make something like this a thing, too.

[Joe the Rat]

Taking the extra step of Tavern Brawler to use actual equipment over reskinned gear... oh hell yes I'd allow it.

I'd also encourage you to diversify. Your grappling hook is not your weapon, but your mind, and your heart.
Throw in a trowel or something.

[ImproperJustice]

Yeah. This is easy to get behind.
A player willing to trade resources / advancement to promote a new or unique fighting style sounds cool to me.

It helps too, that using a hook and rope/chain is a real world fighting style. It was a common counter against swordsmen in feudal japan.

[MintyNinja]

Awesome! I'm glad people seem to like the idea of it so far. In my head this character has multiple hooks attached to a belt and a lot of readily available silk rope. I've also imagined them swinging down or away from things akin to Spiderman or Bionic Commando.

Would any sort of spellcasting really shine on this build? I'm thinking Spiderclimb and Fly, but little else is coming to mind at the moment.

[Damon_Tor]

It's not impossible to read the Improvised Weapons rules and Taven Brawler in a way that makes this RAW:


Often, an Improvised Weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.

Note that it's still an improvised weapon, even when it's being treated as another similar weapon type. IE, a whip.


When you hit a creature with an unarmed strike or an improvised weapon on your turn, you can use a bonus action to attempt to grapple the target. A grapple check is a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check.

So all that remains is some willful stretching of this bit of the grappling rules:


The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an Attack roll

"Within your reach" can mean "within the reach of your weapon". That's a stretch because the next sentence says you use a free hand to do it, so one can infer it means your unarmed reach, but it doesn't say so explicitly.

I would require a free hand to make this work, but I'd allow it at reach using the logic outlined above.

[Man_Over_Game]

It's not impossible to read the Improvised Weapons rules and Taven Brawler in a way that makes this RAW:


Often, an Improvised Weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.

Note that it's still an improvised weapon, even when it's being treated as another similar weapon type. IE, a whip.


When you hit a creature with an unarmed strike or an improvised weapon on your turn, you can use a bonus action to attempt to grapple the target. A grapple check is a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check.

So all that remains is some willful stretching of this bit of the grappling rules:


The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an Attack roll

"Within your reach" can mean "within the reach of your weapon". That's a stretch because the next sentence says you use a free hand to do it, so one can infer it means your unarmed reach, but it doesn't say so explicitly.

I would require a free hand to make this work, but I'd allow it at reach using the logic outlined above.

Here's some Sage Advice from Jeremy Crawford (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/502520711395557376):

The reach property applies only when you attack with a weapon. Any use beyond that is up to the DM.

Since a Grapple is definitely not an attack with a weapon, Reach isn't applied to grapples unless a DM wants to homebrew something.

On the other hand, Bugbears have the Long-Limbed feature which states:

When you make a melee attack on your turn, your reach for it is 5 feet greater than normal.

Note that it applies to any melee attack, including unarmed, using a weapon, or even to Grapples (which is defined as a "special melee attack").

[No brains]

You still need a hand to hold the grappling hook, don't you? :smalltongue:

More seriously, does the bugbear's reach only apply for that turn? If a bugbear grapples someone out at 10 feet, are they released at the end of the turn?

[Man_Over_Game]

You still need a hand to hold the grappling hook, don't you? :smalltongue:

More seriously, does the bugbear's reach only apply for that turn? If a bugbear grapples someone out at 10 feet, are they released at the end of the turn?

That's an excellent point. I'd probably say...yes?

Emphasis on the question mark.