Curse of Strahd - Looking for advice

[Tinuva]

Hi Guys

I'm posting this because any advice in general here is useful. I'm running Curse of Strahd, this is my first full campaign as a DM but I have played a fair amount and DM'd a lot of one shots and mini-series'.

I'm playing with quite a large party, they fluctuate between 5 - 7 players depending on who makes it. Most of the time 6 players will make it to the sessions. We've played about 5 sessions now and so far it's going pretty well, the players are engaged, I've built a little bit about everyone's background into the story making everyone that little bit more interested. I made the mistake of letting the players start at level 5 as most people were continuing with their characters from the previous campaign.

As a result the party really is not struggling at all when it comes to encounters, which is starting to impact the "dread" feeling that I'm trying to create. The party is made up of a Wizard, Warlock, Barbarian, Cleric, 2 Bards (2nd Bard doesn't often turn up and very inexperienced) and a Druid. There has been a few encounters that I've scaled up that they've had to think outside the box with and they have met Strahd once who downed a couple of players and smirked as they ran away, dragging their fallen comrades to safety.

Firstly, if anyone has any sort of tips for balancing encounters for a party of this size that would be great. I'm not really struggling with the flow of combat or tracking initiative/HP, just would like things to be a bit more of a challenge for them.

Secondly, and the main reason for this post is that I'm planning a 2nd encounter for them with Strahd to be an ambush in the next session. In the most recent session Strahd had the sense to charm one of the party, take a lock of their hair and also convince them to stealthily steal a lock of another party members hair. The party have just gotten the Tome of Strahd, Strahd saw this when he was scrying on them. The Wizard in the party is very confident, he has Glasstaff's staff from the starter edition and has basically been untouched using mage armour, mirror image and shield, which the staff gives mage armour and shield as charges and he's dealing a lot of AoE damage. His confidence is meaning that failing to persuade or deceive enemies has little consequence to him as he can just fireball them if anything goes wrong which is curbing some of the others players strengths and frustrating people slightly. The whole party also a result very rarely exercises caution around anyone.

Whilst Strahd was scrying the Wizard announced that next time he sees Strahd he was going to taunt him with the Tome, tell him he knows of his backstory, goad him and mock him. From Strahd's perspective I'd think that he's going to be fairly annoyed by this and now that he's seeing the party are collecting items with the hope of defeating him then he is going to take a lot more of an interest - and certainly want that tome back as a very personal possession of his. So, my plan:

Off the back of a normal encounter, Strahd is going to set up an ambush. He is going to set up a seemingly advantageous terrain for the party as they will have access to a high area for spellcasters to stand out of the fray. Strahd is going to be laying in wait on that high area on the Ethereal plane using his horse to do so. He is going to disguise a minion as Strahd down in the area below and the party have expressed that they are confident on facing Strahd (now level 7). My aim is to knock them down a peg or two ...

When the fight begins and most of the people will be below fighting the melee battle Strahd and his mount will appear next to the Wizard who is likely taunting Strahd with the tome by now. He is going to have two allies with him, cast wall of force as a spherical dome, dispell the Wizard and have his allies grapple and shove him prone. He is then going to stand menacingly over the party as their party member is knocked to the ground prone, without his magical defenses and being beaten and all that they can do is watch. Strahd himself is unlikely to get involved with the beating.

When the Wizard is close to death, Strahd will demand that the Wizard gives him the Tome of his own free will. If the Wizard complies, then he will knock him out with non-lethal damage, take his Glasstaff and he will seemingly disappear (leaving to Ethereal plane on his mount), leaving the Wizard unconscious on the ground for the party to pick up the pieces. If he refuses to give up the Tome, then Strahd will simply kill him, the player will have to make a new character.

I feel like this will make them understand that they are dealing with a master tactician and that defeating him will not be an easy challenge. I think that giving the PC a choice to leave behind his ego and just give up and him stealing his staff will give him more of a reason to think smart as well as teaching them a lesson. If the PC dies as a result of their choices then it makes them realise that they're strong, but not invincible.

I was wondering if you think that this is too harsh? And do you see any reason why this wouldn't work?

Feedback is appreciated.

[Specter]

Dread doesn't need tocome from one combat. Have one of them be possessed and start attacking the rest of the party, or send 4-5 waves of weaker enemies after them so they have no idea of when it will stop. You want them to think that enemies are everywhere, no one can be trusted, and help won't come if they fail.

As for the Strahd thing, you never want to send your players into a TPK knowingly. Give them an escape route, or have Strahd just humiliate them and leave.

[sophontteks]

Don't be afraid to bring up some NPCs and such that are straight up suicide for the party to fight. Dread doesn't come from the combat, it comes from the fact that combat is not an option. Have Strahd mess with their minds, turn them against one another, force them to break their vows. Make them see things, hallucinate themselves dying. Have Strahd come in and pull their pants down by making them tell their own plans and strategies to him. Have him charm a couple and make the rest of the party watch as he sucks the blood of one of the more 'innocent' members of the party all while their own friends pin them down and force them to watch. And then he leaves, reveling in their humiliation. You really want to make the party turn into his little puppets. Beating him should be about wits more then brawn, so make sure you play to his strengths.

[Tinuva]

Dread doesn't need tocome from one combat. Have one of them be possessed and start attacking the rest of the party, or send 4-5 waves of weaker enemies after them so they have no idea of when it will stop. You want them to think that enemies are everywhere, no one can be trusted, and help won't come if they fail.

As for the Strahd thing, you never want to send your players into a TPK knowingly. Give them an escape route, or have Strahd just humiliate them and leave.

Thanks for the tips - do you think that giving them the choice of giving up the Tome would be a reasonable escape route?

[sophontteks]

Thanks for the tips - do you think that giving them the choice of giving up the Tome would be a reasonable escape route?
Strahd will come and defeat the party whenever he pleases. He should do this. He chooses not to kill them so long as their suffering entertains him.

[Tinuva]

Don't be afraid to bring up some NPCs and such that are straight up suicide for the party to fight. Dread doesn't come from the combat, it comes from the fact that combat is not an option. Have Strahd mess with their minds, turn them against one another, force them to break their vows. Make them see things, hallucinate themselves dying. Have Strahd come in and pull their pants down by making them tell their own plans and strategies to him. Have him charm a couple and make the rest of the party watch as he sucks the blood of one of the more 'innocent' members of the party all while their own friends pin them down and force them to watch. And then he leaves, reveling in their humiliation. You really want to make the party turn into his little puppets. Beating him should be about wits more then brawn, so make sure you play to his strengths.

How would you play his charm ability? I've seen some use in it but mainly for social interactions for now. How would you use it in combat?

[Specter]

Thanks for the tips - do you think that giving them the choice of giving up the Tome would be a reasonable escape route?

Sure, but make it clear to them that not giving up the Tome will mean death.

[ruy343]

just a thought: your players are going to feel like you were heavy-handed if you plan an encounter that's flat-out too hard for them. However, if they're still relatively low-level, just have him walk up to them, be apparently immune to their attacks, and have him politely ask for the tome back. Fear doesn't have to come from combat, it can come from complete nonchalance, as he approaches the heavily armed-an-armored PCs. If he clearly doesn't fear them, that might go a long way toward building the atmosphere of fear required.

That said, have some wolves waiting in the wings if they think that a one-on-one encounter is going to be worth it. have the wolves simply appear from the mist right next to them at Strahd's command or something at initiative count 20.

But remember: fear from mechanical ideas (combat damage, how often they hit, etc.) isn't going to be nearly as effective as the fear the get from you roleplaying the villain properly.

[sophontteks]

How would you play his charm ability? I've seen some use in it but mainly for social interactions for now. How would you use it in combat?
He can teleport, shapeshift, regenerate, and go through walls. There is no in or out of combat with him. He can choose when to fight and he can choose to leave just as quickly.

His charm is just short of mind control. Whatever target he charms will not attack him, and actively stop anyone else from harming him. A DC 17 save is gonna succeed most of the time, he can do it at will, it lasts 24 hours, and he can afflict an unlimited number of targets. Endless possibilities here.


just a thought: your players are going to feel like you were heavy-handed if you plan an encounter that's flat-out too hard for them. However, if they're still relatively low-level, just have him walk up to them, be apparently immune to their attacks, and have him politely ask for the tome back. Fear doesn't have to come from combat, it can come from complete nonchalance, as he approaches the heavily armed-an-armored PCs. If he clearly doesn't fear them, that might go a long way toward building the atmosphere of fear required.

That said, have some wolves waiting in the wings if they think that a one-on-one encounter is going to be worth it. have the wolves simply appear from the mist right next to them at Strahd's command or something at initiative count 20.

But remember: fear from mechanical ideas (combat damage, how often they hit, etc.) isn't going to be nearly as effective as the fear the get from you roleplaying the villain properly.

In curse of strahd impossible encounters are the norm. The players will regularly face battles they can't win and strahd will be personally wiping the floor with them for amusement. Its just the way the module is (and its awesome).

Polite talk is great and all but let me descibe our first encounter with him...

When we met Strahd he politely talked to us as a shapeshifted humanoid noble, after he read our minds with detect thoughts. He picked out the characters he found interesting, based on the thoughts he read, and charmed them. When the party noticed these players literally telling Strahd our plans, we tried to stop them, so he mind controlled more of us. He had two of us go into our room to await him while another kept guard, preventing the other players from entering. Then he changed to his real form, smashed my character''s face against a wall until it was thoroughly bloodied, and sucked our high elf dry while we, quite unfortunately, watched in awe. The druid was shapeshifted as a spider and tried to stop him, so he sucked her dry before going back to the high elf. He quite likes his taste apparently. He told the high elf to watch the beautiful stars as he feinted from blood loss. The other characters burst in and he gave a bow. He insulted us pretty thoroughly, especially the cleric who was guarding the room. The cleric hates vampires and went through a mental meltdown for what he had done.

Worse, two of the three of us were still charmed. Me and the high elf. He released the cleric so the cleric could feel the full weight of what he allowed, while the other two of us spent all day raving over how the high elf has been chosen.

And that was just the first time we met him.

I wouldn't water this stuff down. It's supposed to be a scary game.

[Tinuva]

just a thought: your players are going to feel like you were heavy-handed if you plan an encounter that's flat-out too hard for them. However, if they're still relatively low-level, just have him walk up to them, be apparently immune to their attacks, and have him politely ask for the tome back. Fear doesn't have to come from combat, it can come from complete nonchalance, as he approaches the heavily armed-an-armored PCs. If he clearly doesn't fear them, that might go a long way toward building the atmosphere of fear required.

That said, have some wolves waiting in the wings if they think that a one-on-one encounter is going to be worth it. have the wolves simply appear from the mist right next to them at Strahd's command or something at initiative count 20.

But remember: fear from mechanical ideas (combat damage, how often they hit, etc.) isn't going to be nearly as effective as the fear the get from you roleplaying the villain properly.

I think that the issue is that they've got such a good spread of skills and enough people that I think they could likely defeat Strahd in a fight. My idea was to basically show them that you're in Strahd's world now, don't take him lightly because he has the advantage.

[Tinuva]

He can teleport, shapeshift, regenerate, and go through walls. There is no in or out of combat with him. He can choose when to fight and he can choose to leave just as quickly.

His charm is just short of mind control. Whatever target he charms will not attack him, and actively stop anyone else from harming him. A DC 17 save is gonna succeed most of the time, he can do it at will, it lasts 24 hours, and he can afflict an unlimited number of targets. Endless possibilities here.



In curse of strahd impossible encounters are the norm. The players will regularly face battles they can't win and strahd will be personally wiping the floor with them for amusement. Its just the way the module is (and its awesome).

Polite talk is great and all but let me descibe our first encounter with him...

When we met Strahd he politely talked to us as a shapeshifted humanoid noble, after he read our minds with detect thoughts. He picked out the characters he found interesting, based on the thoughts he read, and charmed them. When the party noticed these players literally telling Strahd our plans, we tried to stop them, so he mind controlled more of us. He had two of us go into our room to await him while another kept guard, preventing the other players from entering. Then he changed to his real form, smashed my character''s face against a wall until it was thoroughly bloodied, and sucked our high elf dry while we, quite unfortunately, watched in awe. The druid was shapeshifted as a spider and tried to stop him, so he sucked her dry before going back to the high elf. He quite likes his taste apparently. He told the high elf to watch the beautiful stars as he feinted from blood loss. The other characters burst in and he gave a bow. He insulted us pretty thoroughly, especially the cleric who was guarding the room. The cleric hates vampires and went through a mental meltdown for what he had done.

Worse, two of the three of us were still charmed. Me and the high elf. He released the cleric so the cleric could feel the full weight of what he allowed, while the other two of us spent all day raving over how the high elf has been chosen.

And that was just the first time we met him.

I wouldn't water this stuff down. It's supposed to be a scary game.

That is a pretty rough first encounter! Perhaps I should take some inspiration from this. Thanks for your help

Just a side note, the charm ability says they get to roll a saving throw if Strahd or his allies harm the target. Does this include when he uses bite? As technically they are a willing creature for this

[sophontteks]

Yeah it should give a save. It's always good style to give a player a chance to resist when they are being killed.

CoS was the best dnd game I ever played by a long shot. Normal dnd is about making your characters feel awesome, but CoS is about humiliating and emasculating them. We had many badass moments, but there was always a cloud hanging over us, a feeling of futality knowing that at any night Strahd could decide to kill us all. Worse, death seemed favorable to his torment at times. He loved nothing more then to make us betray ourselves and we all knew we were only alive as long as our suffering entertained him.

As the DM that's what you want to focus on. Use Strahd's list of abilities to study the party, learn their weaknesses, and exploit them. He's an evil sadistic vampire that is tormenting the party for amusement and the entire realm of Barovia is his sandbox.

Make the paladin break his vowes. Create disturbing illusions of lost loved ones blaming their demise on the player. Turn the party against one another. Give them visions of their own future demise. And when the party is at their weakest, Strahd pays them a visit just to pull the strings of their sanity to their breaking point.

[Helldin87]

If you are finding that a certain item is rendering encounters too easy for your wizard then maybe have the BBEG attack or steal the item? He could even hide it and prompt a homebrew side-quest to retrieve it.

I recently awarded that item to a PC and am also finding that the use of shield and mage armor (not to mention the +1 AC) render him hard to hit. The other option is to make that PC the target of spells that force a save. The dude with the glowing magical armor and bubble of pure force defending him is bound to draw a certain amount of aggro =P.

Good Luck!

[Damon_Tor]

Have Strahd use charmed PCs to swap out the Book of Strahd with a phony duplicate, full of lies. "Letting Strahd bite you after you've eaten garlic will stun him temporarily. Let him get a good long drink." would be a good one. Passages which convince the PCs that potential allies need to be killed and that various allies of Strahd should be trusted with their plans. Have the charmed PCs tell Strahd where the fortune teller told them the other items were and have Strahd get to them first.

Also, definitely invite the wizard to dinner. Make sure Strahd prepares Counterspell. Just have him casually "nope" all the wizard's spells if he tries anything. Use charm just to get the other PCs to do stuff like pour wine for Strahd (they weren't actually invited, but they can still be useful) and clean dishes. Basically just take the opportunity to dunk on them.

[Tinuva]

Have Strahd use charmed PCs to swap out the Book of Strahd with a phony duplicate, full of lies. "Letting Strahd bite you after you've eaten garlic will stun him temporarily. Let him get a good long drink." would be a good one. Passages which convince the PCs that potential allies need to be killed and that various allies of Strahd should be trusted with their plans. Have the charmed PCs tell Strahd where the fortune teller told them the other items were and have Strahd get to them first.

Also, definitely invite the wizard to dinner. Make sure Strahd prepares Counterspell. Just have him casually "nope" all the wizard's spells if he tries anything. Use charm just to get the other PCs to do stuff like pour wine for Strahd (they weren't actually invited, but they can still be useful) and clean dishes. Basically just take the opportunity to dunk on them.

This is very crafty, I think I'm definitely underutilizing his charm ability. Having him get to the artifacts before could also help to balance future encounters with him.

I like the idea of swapping the Tome out as well. As long as the group don't get all meta (possible) then it could cause a lot of disruption

[Damon_Tor]

This is very crafty, I think I'm definitely underutilizing his charm ability. Having him get to the artifacts before could also help to balance future encounters with him.

I like the idea of swapping the Tome out as well. As long as the group don't get all meta (possible) then it could cause a lot of disruption

Let them get meta. Hell, you could have the first part they read be something like "The sound of a silver bell tuned to D minor will cause Drahd discomfort" something that poses no risk to the PCs to take advantage of. Then when they try it (why wouldn't they?) have Drahd do some quality play acting, act like he has to roll a save against some effect or something. They'll start to pour over the tome for more, and trust it more and more, becoming willing to do more and more dangerous things, because they appear to be working. Eventually they start feeding themselves to him.