Best spells and feats for a Swordsage//Favored Soul gestalt?

[Vrock_Summoner]

Per the title. The character has twelve levels (in both classes, since it’s gestalt). The Swordsage side is well-handled, because the table has ToB advice to spare. She’s focused on Setting Sun and Diamond Mind stuff, with a dual focus on Strength and Dexterity. On the other hand, while I’ve played Clerics before, Favored Souls are harder and a lot of my go-to recommendations (Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell, I weep for thee) don’t work, and they don’t have much experience with trying to make particularly effective casters. So I’m here instead.

She’s got higher physical stats than casting stats and plenty of combat utility through Swordsage, so offensive spells with save DCs are probably not ideal. Additionally, there aren’t any other main casters in the party (the dragon has partial Sorcerer casting, at least...?), so while a few buffs are in order, there should probably be an emphasis on out-of-combat utility on the spell side. And I’m really not sure what to do at all with the feats. So suggest away! And thanks for the help.

[Rebel7284]

Isn't level 12 about the time that Setting sun loses a bunch of utility due to fire resistance becoming commonplace? Shadow Hand on the other hand, has lots of tactical teleportation and some debuffs which is nice.

Are Prestige Classes allowed? Dipping Sacred Exorcist gives you turn undead and puts DMM back on the table.

[Maat Mons]

Favored Souls are harder and a lot of my go-to recommendations (Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell, I weep for thee) don’t work

This might be slightly off-topic but Dragonlance has a class called Mystic that's very similar to Favored Soul, but does have access to turn/rebuke undead.

[Vrock_Summoner]

Isn't level 12 about the time that Setting sun loses a bunch of utility due to fire resistance becoming commonplace? Shadow Hand on the other hand, has lots of tactical teleportation and some debuffs which is nice.

You’re thinking of Desert Wind. Setting Sun is the one with a bunch of immediate action counters and “use your enemy’s strength against themselves” sorts of Maneuvers.

Edit: To get back to the other half of that post - I’m pretty sure we’re not using PrCs, but if we are, I’ll definitely make that suggestion. For now, I’d like to brainstorm what works best sans that.

[Maat Mons]

Okay, now, I'm not really the guy to ask for advice on spell selection, but here are some that I think would probably be pretty useful.

6: greater dispel magic, heal
5: plane shift
4: air walk, death ward, freedom of movement
3: magic circle against evil, mass resist energy
2: divine insight

[Coventry]

It has been a while since I built a Favored Soul, but from what I remember, my thoughts about spell selection back then went something like, "so I end up with six spells of each level, I should probably dedicate at least one spell at each level to: healing, offensive buff, defensive buffs, battlefield control and utility.

For me, I would not consider a favored soul without these spells at 12th level:

Heal (6)
Wall of Stone (5), Stone Shape (2)
Righteous Might (5), Divine Power (4), Divine Favor (1)


Then it comes down to picking between spells with overlapping themes. I would want to be able to raise a dead companion, but having both Raise Dead (5) and Revivify (5) is a lot of duplication for higher level spells. I would probably pick Revivify for that "I need you back in the fight right now!" spell, and carry one or two scrolls of Raise Dead as a back up.

First level healing is dominated by Lesser Vigor, which is very efficient (at your level, that is 22 hit points for only a first level spell) at the cost of being very slow (taking 22 rounds to complete). Cure light wounds is a "right now!" spell, but if you were in combat, would you choose casting that over swinging your weapon or casting Heal?

Flexibility is also a consideration - any spell that can do many different things is very valuable to sorcerer-like casters. The various Summon spells should be considered at every caster level.

And then there is room for the spells that just make you happy. Flame Strike is never going to equal the damage an evoker Wizard can throw at an enemy, or that your buff spells plus your weapon can dish out, but it still makes me smile, so it makes my list.

Anyway, here is my list:

1: Lesser Vigor (healing), Divine Favor (offense), Protection from Evil (defense), Ice Slick (battlefield control), Comprehend Languages (utility), Bless (buff)
2: Remove Paralysis (healing), Shatter (offense), Divine Protection (defense), Silence (battlefield control), Stone Shape (utility), Make Whole (utility)
3: Cure Serious Wounds (healing), Fell the Greatest Foe (offense), Protection from Energy (defense), Briar Web (battlefield control), Dispel Magic (utility), Speak with Dead (utility)
4: Panacea (healing), Divine Power (offense), Death Ward (defense), Summon Monster IV (battlefield control), Air Walk (utility), Lesser Holy Transformation (offense)
5: Revivify (healing), Righteous Might (offense), Dispel Evil (defense), Wall of Stone (battlefield control), Plane Shift(utility), Flame Strike (fun)
6: Heal (healing), Blade Barrier (battlefield control), Summon Monster VI (utility),

But those are just suggestions. Scrolls to consider: Scrying, Neutralize Poison, Animate Objects, Raise Dead, Blessing of the Righteous, Restoration,

[Awakeninfinity]

I have a question; have you considered Crusader? Crusader has much better Synergy with Favored Soul than Swordsage; With a Smite ability and Cha to Will (You can take the Extra Smite feat in complete warrior too) I'm sorry but it sounds to me like your character is already Kinda dumping Wisdom, and this would reduce MAD.

Also I would Consider Mystic Aegis(PHB2) and Moonbolt (SC) as spells.

[Vrock_Summoner]

I have a question; have you considered Crusader? Crusader has much better Synergy with Favored Soul than Swordsage; With a Smite ability and Cha to Will (You can take the Extra Smite feat in complete warrior too) I'm sorry but it sounds to me like your character is already Kinda dumping Wisdom, and this would reduce MAD.

Also I would Consider Mystic Aegis(PHB2) and Moonbolt (SC) as spells.

Not my character, so not up to me. I sympathize with your assessment, but Crusader doesn’t actually get any of the Maneuver trees my friend wants. Not to mention we already have a Crusader in the party.

[Mr Adventurer]

Then it comes down to picking between spells with overlapping themes. I would want to be able to raise a dead companion, but having both Raise Dead (5) and Revivify (5) is a lot of duplication for higher level spells. I would probably pick Revivify for that "I need you back in the fight right now!" spell, and carry one or two scrolls of Raise Dead as a back up.

Raise Dead is trash.

Revivify does not in fact get someone back into a combat "right now". It's for getting people up after they fall down, possibly after they've fallen down following the expiration of Revenance.


First level healing is dominated by Lesser Vigor, which is very efficient (at your level, that is 22 hit points for only a first level spell) at the cost of being very slow (taking 22 rounds to complete). Cure light wounds is a "right now!" spell, but if you were in combat, would you choose casting that over swinging your weapon or casting Heal?

Lesser Vigor caps at 15. Get a wand of it instead of spending a spell known slot.

CLW at level 12 is trash.

Your advice is all over the place dude.


1: Lesser Vigor (healing), Divine Favor (offense), Protection from Evil (defense), Ice Slick (battlefield control), Comprehend Languages (utility), Bless (buff)
2: Remove Paralysis (healing), Shatter (offense), Divine Protection (defense), Silence (battlefield control), Stone Shape (utility), Make Whole (utility)
3: Cure Serious Wounds (healing), Fell the Greatest Foe (offense), Protection from Energy (defense), Briar Web (battlefield control), Dispel Magic (utility), Speak with Dead (utility)
4: Panacea (healing), Divine Power (offense), Death Ward (defense), Summon Monster IV (battlefield control), Air Walk (utility), Lesser Holy Transformation (offense)
5: Revivify (healing), Righteous Might (offense), Dispel Evil (defense), Wall of Stone (battlefield control), Plane Shift(utility), Flame Strike (fun)
6: Heal (healing), Blade Barrier (battlefield control), Summon Monster VI (utility)

Bless is also trash at level 12, Comprehend Languages might be useful but is blown away by Tongues if available, Remove Paralysis is very niche for a limited-spells-known caster and is blown away by Panacea anyway, Dispel Magic needs careful thought since you're already bypassing the level cap, having more than one Summon Monster is a big ask for a spells-known caster, Plane Shift is mostly useful if you can afford Knowledge (The Planes).

[Coventry]

{spell} is trash.

No doubt. Care to suggest replacements?

As a gestalt character, I assume most of his time in combat will be spent using maneuvers, rather than casting spells.


Your advice is all over the place dude.

I admit that. I shared a method that worked for me ... from several years ago ... where I was gaming in a group with people who were clever, but not necessarily top tier optimizers.

I did leave a couple of things out:


As a fixed-spell caster, the spells you want to have available are the ones that will turn the tide of battle. Anything else can go on a scroll or a wand.
If you have other divine spell casters in the group, consider talking to them to see what they will want to do. SOME duplication between characters is a good idea, but other duplication is not really necessary.




having more than one Summon Monster is a big ask for a spells-known caster

This is a place where you and I will have to agree to disagree. Having a little hammer to deal with little jobs means that you still have the big hammer sitting there when you encounter a big job. Why burn a Heal when a Lesser Vigor or two will do?

Or, to put it another way: having only one summon monster spell means that only one pool of spell slots can be used to cast it ... run out of sixth level spells for the day, and Summon Monster VI becomes useless today because you can't cast it again until tomorrow. Summon Monster IV was the last spell I picked for that level, because there was nothing else that I wanted to pick up and have available at all times.