How to rule (keen) senses of smell

[Skylivedk]

Dear playground,

How do you rule (keen) senses of smell in your games? Both when players (ie druids, pets, etc) and monsters got them.

Can they smell through doors? How far? How many rooms? Can they smell those who hide? Yes/no/why?

It's been a recurrent theme for my table that smell feels mechanically clunky.

[hymer]

If you go by RAW alone, then stat blocks with keen smell cannot actually manage to smell anything that other people cannot also manage to smell. They just have a higher success rate via advantage.

That said, it's very much down to the situation. Can you smell through a door? Mostly no, but you may be able to smell which kind of creature last went through the door, which may be as good. Can you smell hidden creatures? Mostly yes, but wind and water may make it impossible.

[Man_Over_Game]

Dear playground,

How do you rule (keen) senses of smell in your games? Both when players (ie druids, pets, etc) and monsters got them.

Can they smell through doors? How far? How many rooms? Can they smell those who hide? Yes/no/why?

It's been a recurrent theme for my table that smell feels mechanically clunky.

You're right, it is really odd to use. I generally try to make it as useful as a dog's sense of smell (who actually have the same feature in 5E). I make it work in a sort of "range", with 30/60/90, with the DC starting at 10 and increasing by 5 for each range limit. Things like water, doorways, or a masked scent increases the DC by 5. If you don't know what scent you're looking for (like, if you're just trying to see if there's any odd scents), increase the DC by another 5.

So, for example, a Lizardman is 40 feet away (DC 15). You don't know what a Lizardman smells like (+5). If you make a DC 20 (don't forget you have advantage), you caught onto the scent of a living, fishy creature. If you rolled just under that (less than 5 difference), then I'd say something like "you smell the hint of fish, blood, and rust in the air, stronger in the North". Otherwise, they just get some kind of flavorful response that means nothing.

[OldTrees1]

Keen Scent gives advantage on any ability check that allows Perception proficiency that also deals with scents. So they roll at advantage and then add their modifiers.

Yes, you can smell someone that is hiding. Although I would assume that someone with proficiency (and certainly someone with expertise) would be able to roll an opposed stealth check since they would know how to attempt to hide their smell's location / presence.

What you are really asking is:
What is the DC for smelling something on the other side of a door?
What about smelling something down a 100ft corridor?
What kind of distance does a DC 30 "nigh impossible" check mean?

The exact distance would depend on the strength of the scent, the depth of information sought, and the distance from the origin of the scent. However I would expect a DC 30 would be able to handle something difficult in 2+ of those 3 categories.

[Skylivedk]

Thanks everybody. Have you had any immersion issues with this? We've a player who's family used to raise dogs. According to him, well trained dogs can find items a mile away and 40 feet below ground... Might be hyperbole, but anyway, not something where hiding behind a rock or a couple of does will help you (if you've tried visiting a friend with dogs and heard them bark while they're on the second floor and you haven't touched the door knob that might be a clue).

I'm thinking the easy way is to play it by checks and just hope the suspension of disbelief doesn't get stretched too much

[OldTrees1]

Thanks everybody. Have you had any immersion issues with this?

No immersion issues beyond the ones for the 5E skill system in general.

I just remind myself that:
DC30 means Epic (nigh impossible) results
DC 5 can be just barely guaranteed by a 14 and Proficiency. So if something should be even easier than that (talent & training) it should not take a roll.
DC 10 with +0 at advantage is a 20% fail chance and that can grow/shink depending on how many in the party need to pass. That is a high fail chance if you need 4 successes (60%) or a low fail rate if you need 1 out of 4 (2%).

With those reminders I tend to set DCs or give results that sustain immersion.

[hymer]

My suspension of disbelief can stretch to account for balance. There are so many things that niggle if you look at them. Lifesaving first aid takes six seconds and can be accomplished with your bare hands. Most people have a top speed below 7 miles per hour. The average halfling can comfortably carry 150 pounds with them all day, over three times their own body weight.

It's silly, but at least it is consistent. Now stop thinking about it, and go back to fight those giant, flying, fire-breathing lizards. :smallwink:

Edit: Got a little shadowmonk'ed on the sentiment, there.


(if you've tried visiting a friend with dogs and heard them bark while they're on the second floor and you haven't touched the door knob that might be a clue)
Well, they have ears, too, and if they are lying around being bored, they'll bark at just about any noise they hear, or imagine they hear - and join in on the barking whether they heard anything or not. Smell only travels so fast, after all.

[mephnick]

You think a dog is bad? Bears can smell food from roughly 20 miles away. Good luck hiding from that.

Unless you roll a good Stealth check...which apparently covers smell? I feel like that would be a Survival check, but who knows, man.

[Luccan]

Well, noticing anything by smell should be a Perception roll. Follow that up (if they have a keen sense of smell) either with advantage or with a +5 (which is supposed to be the numerical bonus for advantage if you want to rule that way). A +5 implies they actually smell better than average.

I'd advise you handle it however you handle Perception checks for hearing, with the change that they might not smell quite as far and they lose advantage when upwind of something. Edit: That means other characters should have disadvantage attempting to smell something with Perception when upwind.

[GlenSmash!]

You think a dog is bad? Bears can smell food from roughly 20 miles away. Good luck hiding from that.

Unless you roll a good Stealth check...which apparently covers smell? I feel like that would be a Survival check, but who knows, man.

Yup. Dogs got nothing on Bears. You want to smell something far away, shift into Bear form.

But it essentially boils down to: a Player describes an approach that uses smell and would call for a Wisdom (Perception) check. Assign a DC as you normally would. The Player rolls with advantage.