EK+Warlock MC for a PotA game

[Anarak]

Howdy!

In a few weeks I'll be playing a Princes of the Apocalypse game and I'm stuck in analysis paralysis char-gen. This is the second character I'll be creating in 5e, previously having rolled a quite fun Vengeance Paladin.

I wanted to do some close-combat action and have some magic options as well. Char concept so far is an ex-elite sword-mage inquisitor of this big-bad empire that then decides to desert and start anew in this new-world town called red larch. A generic gish if you will. I'll probably hand-wave his lack of real powers as "I don't wanna use my evil powers again!", because lvl 1 d&d characters are little more than glorified babies. Other players will be a Fighter Battlemaster; an Abjuration Wizard and a something something Rogue.

I'm not a d&d virgin but i'm not an expert either, specially at 5e and while I don't NEED to make an ubber build, optimization is important if I'm playing a game like d&d, otherwise i'd just play Fate or something (which I also do).

Anyhoo
We are using PHB+Xanathar, attributes are Point-buy and this is what I've come so far:

>Endgame Warlock 12/EK 8. Apparently campaign is officially till lvl 14-15 but DM has manifested the option of keeping playing with a sandbox follow-up/personal quests, etc
>EK mainly for War Magic at 7 and a no-brainer lvl 8 for ASI. Action Surge is a nice cherry on top.
>Hexblade for +CHA modifiers + Hexcurse + Agonizing EB + Utility Invocations
>Mid-to-late Bread 'n butter is using War Magic to cantrip something and hit with a bonus attack. I can even make something like Blade Ward + attack if I need to tank something
>Crossbow Expert Feat so I can WM and AEB at any range + bonus attack for 2-5 attacks
>I can still Attack x2 If needed
>Action Surge helps proc bonus abilities faster (Hex, Darkness/Moil, HexCurse), refreshes with short rest which synergize well with warlock
>EK provides a few extra spells slots for things like Shield and Absorb Elements
>War Caster at some point
>Lvl 1 is Fighter for Con.
>Gain 1 ASI over pure lock

What I Miss/Suffer:
-No Capstone :smalltongue:
-2(1*) invocations :smalltongue:
-1 spell slots :smallconfused:
-4 spells known :smallsigh:
-Hex Mastery: :smallfrown:
-Lifedrinker comes too late, its the capstone :smallannoyed:
-No at-will Invisibility :smallconfused:
-Slower Progression :smallfrown:

What I get
-[4+2] wizard slots :smallamused:
-Action Surge :smallsmile:
-Second Wind :smallsigh:
-Con save :smallcool:
-Extra attack (frees 1 invocation) :smallwink:
-Extra ASI :smallcool:
-War Magic :smallbiggrin:

What I need help with:
>Is this a solid build or I'm gimping myself in detriment of something obviously better?
>Vhuman 10 14 14 10 10 16 & faster feat or Half-Elf 10 14 16 10(08) 10(08) 17 for the extra con + Elven Accuracy? Not sure how much good EA is, just read some conflicting things
>Basically I'm deciding between the HB+EK or full HB, both blade pact, one with the WM machine gun gimmick and the other with thirsting blade+lifedrinker. Full EK didn't seem worthy to me. Then again I never played warlock or eldritch knight.
>Input on how I should level each one if going WL+EK; I assume first level is Fighter for Con save, which I assume is better than Wis? Fighter 1 Warlock 1 Then level Fighter until you get to 7-8 then going back to warlock sounds good? Or the other way around, Lock to 5 then EK?
>GWM can be a thing with the WL+EK or only with the bladelock? WLEK you hit melee once or twice with POM; with BLock you hit twice or thrice with POM
>Is Polearm Mastery worthy in any of these builds?
>War Magic AEB+Bonus Attack gives more attacks but the fixed damage is lower, but I guess is better when all your curses are online; Thirsting Blade + Lifedrinker you get to attack less but you have better fixed bonuses (+3-5 lifedrinker +10 GWM) and you deal more consistent damage without curse bonuses? Then again I lose less by foregoin GWM with the War Magic AEB but then again again I'm trading GWM for Crossbow Expert, and extra damage for +2AC from shield. So, basically there are these numbers and I'm the limit of my math skills. Phew.

Any help / input whatsoever is welcome at this point :smalltongue:
Thanks!

[BarneyBent]

Disclaimer: I’m pretty inexperienced in actual play but I’ve done a bit of theorycrafting on the Warlock/EK multiclass.

I reckon get to Fighter 7/Warlock 2 and then consider a third class that will boost the power of your bonus action attack. Either Paladin or Rogue. You’ll want Fighter 8 eventually of course, and possibly Warlock 3 for a Pact Boon. A EK 8/Warlock 2/ Rogue 1 does 3d10+15 (assuming 20 CHA) from EB and 1d8 +1d6+5 from the bonus attack (total average damage of 44.5 per turn) provided you can sneak attack. Paladin would come into play one level later with Divine Smite, but you’d gain more from further levels in Warlock, taking it up to 4 for Pact Boon and higher level smite slots that regenerate on a short rest.

I’d either do Fighter 8/Warlock 2/Rogue 10, or Fighter 8/Warlock 4/Paladin 8. If you’re actually going to have any decent playtime at level 20 then Fighter 7/Warlock 2/ Paladin 11 might be worth it for Improved Divine Smite but probably not. Rogue build would actually be better ranged but is certainly workable in melee, particularly as a Swashbuckler. Rogue is also probably the easier one to RP.

If you’re going to take a Pact Boon, Blade Pact seems less efficient if you’re going a EB+Bonus attack as you won’t get the advantage of extra attack, plus you can get access to Smites a level earlier by taking Paladin after Warlock 2 (2 levels of Paladin vs 3 more levels of Warlock), and you get the advantage of a summonable weapon from being an EK. You’d probably be better taking Chain Pact for regular advantage which works greay with Elven Accuracy, Hexblade’s Curse and/or Sneak Attack (if Rogue). Almost a 30% chance of a crit for each attack (including each EB beam), plus advantage means constant sneak attacks on the bonus action.

If you’re not going to take a build that grants you advantage on the regular (Chain Pact and/or Darkness/Devil’s Sight Combo) then I’d ignore Elven Accuracy and also probably any Rogue levels (if I’ve tempted you into a third class, that is).

Polearm Master could be good for EB’s as opportunity attacks, but only a) after getting Warcaster and b) if your DM doesn’t take the strictest possible reading of “targets only one person” in the Warcaster description.

[BobZan]

I've made this thread about EK/Hexblade a while ago, mb you wanna check it out.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?545084-Theorycraft-Hexblade-Eldritch-Knight-build

Anyway, below is the build I came up with:

Mandatory spells: EB, Shield, Absorb Elements

Would appreciate some non-Sorcerer insights!

V. Human: Crossbow Expert

(Medium armor)
8
14
16
8
10
16

or

(Heavy armor)
15
8
14
8
12
15

Lv 1: Fighter 1 -> Fighting Style: Defense

CA: 17 (19 with a shield)

Medium Armor: Use a Hand Crossbow if you want more damage, if you want to melee right away, pick a shield and a Rapier.

Heavy Armor: Shield and Longsword

Lv 2: Hexblade 1
Cantrips: Eldritch Blast, Presdigitation
Spells: Shield, Hex

Lv 3: Hexblade 2
Spell: Comprehend Languages
Invocations: Agonising Blast + Grasp of Hadar or Devil's Sight or Fiendish Vigor

Grab a shield and go tank! You can Eldritch Blast from melee and pull some foes towards you.

Lv 4: Fighter 2

Lv 5: Eldritch Knight 3
Cantrips: Thunderclap + Light (or Blade Ward)
Spells: Absorb Elements, Identify, Find Familar

Here your Eldritch Blast will start firing 2 bolts, you can pull or do good amounts of damage to a single target while tanking.

Lv 6: Eldritch Knight 4
ASI: +2 Cha
Spell: False Life

Here you catch up on the ASIs.

Lv 7: Eldritch Knight 5

Lv 8: Eldritch Knight 6
Feat: Warcaster

Lv 9: Eldritch Knight 7
War Magic Feature
Spell: Darkness (if you took Devil's Sight), Continual Flame if not.

The build connects here with the War Magic EK feature. You can Eldritch Blast + Attack, increasing your DPR while tanking. You can also attack with your EB and use a Net effectively without disadvantage to restrain large or smaller targets for more battlefield control.

Lv 10: Eldritch Knight 8
ASI: +2 Cha
Spell: Blur or Mirror Image

Lv 11+ you'll get extra Eldritch Blasts.

From here on you can go Hexblade for Cloak of Flies and Eldritch Smite, Rogue for Sneak attack and added versatility, Swords Bard for Flourish and more spells, Paladin for more tankiness, spells and smites. Depends on initial Attributes.

You can go Wizard (War Magic, Abjuration) aswell, but you have to start with 13 INT.

[Anarak]

Many thanks party people! There's plenty more to analyze now, which is both good and bad, but ultimately its better to do a more informed decision.



(if I’ve tempted you into a third class, that is).


The bad news is that you have. You indeed have tempted me. The good news is that my inner powermonger is laughing maniacally. Damn you Barney! :smallbiggrin:



You’d probably be better taking Chain Pact for regular advantage which works greay with Elven Accuracy, Hexblade’s Curse and/or Sneak Attack (if Rogue). Almost a 30% chance of a crit for each attack (including each EB beam), plus advantage means constant sneak attacks on the bonus action.


Doesn't the Help you get from a familiar gives advantage on a single attack roll only? Or you mean the advantage you get from positioning your familiar so you can flank the enemy? I mean, your familiar can flank right?



I've made this thread about EK/Hexblade a while ago, mb you wanna check it out.


Definetly checked out!
It's pretty much and about 80% of what I had thought out, pretty neat. Have you had the chance to see it in actual play?
On paper this EK/WL thing doesn't sound a bad idea but for what I digged there doesn't seem to be many doing it, perhaps because sorlock is probably a more powerful build. Then again I feel like going into the fray and procc flanking with the fighter and probably the rogue.

---
>Anyone care to give some extra thoughts on Elven Accuracy? If i'm in melee most of the time I can get the flanking advantages more reliably. Then again, i'd be one feat behind in the build. So, vhuman = best at low to mid levels and elven accuracy = better at mid to high level, something like that?

Additionally, we are using the flanking rules that gives advantage, which I guess helps EA a lot more, but what would really help the case is: Do I get to roll with advantage with ALL attack rolls or only with melee weapons? Roll triple advantage on all AEB's plus a triple advantage bonus attack would really sweeten the deal. Seems a shame if you don't, specially after spending a feat on crossbow expert, whether you would use a cantrip or a crossbow/bow.

>I keep thinking of Polearm Master because I had it with my Paladin and it was loads of fun. Very optimal action economy. It seems there's a place here but not as much as with a full paladin or fighter. For example, there will be plenty to do with bonus action later and I could use my reactions with either armor of hexes or uncanny dodge, plus the Shield and Absorb Elements spells from EK. I guess its another case of POM being better at low levels (so its worth considering if I go Vhuman) vs losing its power as I level up. Its still consistent tho, but my time with it distracts me from a more objective analysis.

Finally, what's the final word on POM+War Caster? I read all sort of things. Can you EB with it instead of using you weapon or not?

>I'm almost ditching GWM, which would ease my feat/ASI progression. On top of that, GWM seems to benefit the most from EA but would tax even further the feat progression. By getting an AC+1 from fighting style, while nothing phenomenal, I do get to use it since day 1 and will always work passively.

>Rogue as a third class sound really enticing and indeed helps the bonus attack even further. But is it worth the slower progression? Spell-wise, for example, I can get darkness from EK only at level 7 (and doesn't seem optional to pick darkness from the EK list) or from WL at lvl 3 which means rogue would only show at later levels, too late perhaps for only a 1d6-3d6 sneak dice. But i'm definetly considering it.

>Not really interested in Paladin again (was super fun, super powerful) but I'd rather try something else. Again, if its like "OMG ITS 40% better to go x Pally" then I might reconsider, but if its only marginally better or just gives alternative powers I'd rather skip it.
...

Back to the drawing board :D

[BobZan]

About flanking: sadly you don't get it for your eldritch blasts.

The EK/HB build is good all the way, from 1 to 7 you'll be doing great, but for that you'll need crossbow expert, to be able to go melee with your blasts.

I followed the build I linked all the way to lv 9, after that i went warlock 1 more level and the campaign ended.

It was great. AC Tank, layered defense spells (Blur, Mirror Image) good battlefield control (pushing, pulling enemies), good HP. Very good on melee and ranged fights. Very consistent.