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Juicy Kisses
2018-11-14, 11:07 AM
I see every now and then on this forum people talking about playing games with an all bard party or an otherwise music themed setting. I have been pondering this morning over how to accomplish this while still maintaining a diverse party so that people can really play whatever they want and still get the musical feel out of whatever class they decide to play. On my drive to work I came up with several ideas that might accomplish this goal, and was looking for thoughts on them as well as other ideas that might put a system for a musical game together:

-Having all characters automatically gain proficiency in Perform as well as one musical instrument
-Expanding the perform skill to do more specific things, such as creating a system for dueling musicians
-Perhaps in said system, giving perform different uses based on which ability score you tie it to, ie strength being a musical attack, dexterity being musical defense, etc
-Giving each class its own unique uses for perform or other musical skills
-Giving each race a specific bonus to musical skills

If you have also taken an interest in this concept, let me know what you think about these ideas, as well as some of your own! :smile:

lunaticfringe
2018-11-14, 11:20 AM
Musical instruments are Tools.

Tool use is not tied to a single ability, since proficiency with a tool represents broader knowledge of its use. For example, the DM might ask you to make a Dexterity check to carve a fine detail with your woodcarver's tools, or a Strength check to make something out of particularly hard wood.

It is not required for you to tie them to Charisma or Performance. Playing a sweet riff on your lute could require a Dexterity(Lute) check. Why not just allow Expertise in a specific Instrument?

Juicy Kisses
2018-11-14, 11:41 AM
Musical instruments are Tools.

Tool use is not tied to a single ability, since proficiency with a tool represents broader knowledge of its use. For example, the DM might ask you to make a Dexterity check to carve a fine detail with your woodcarver's tools, or a Strength check to make something out of particularly hard wood.

It is not required for you to tie them to Charisma or Performance. Playing a sweet riff on your lute could require a Dexterity(Lute) check. Why not just allow Expertise in a specific Instrument?

You make a fair point, I hadn't thought of their being tools. Expertise could be one way to boost them, but what about other ways to make the classes other than bard more musically inclined?

lunaticfringe
2018-11-14, 12:15 PM
You make a fair point, I hadn't thought of their being tools. Expertise could be one way to boost them, but what about other ways to make the classes other than bard more musically inclined?

Let's say you give everyone proficiency in 1 Instrument and allow Expertise in Instruments with an opportunity for all classes to acquire expertise through downtime training/practice/jamming with cool peeps. Or something else, like at level X you are proficient in your instrument.

Bards & Rogues can then potentially acquire Expertise with multiple instruments, representing their superior Skill Monkey Powers, but they do not feel required to use their Class Features on acquiring Instrument Expertise.

Bards/Rogues can take Expertise in Performance which can be used simulate broader skill at Music & Showmanship in General.

Edit: Bob the Barbarian Drummer gets thrown in jail before gig. There is no time to bust him out Mike the Lead Singer Bard jumps on his Drum kit & Sings for that one show.

Vogie
2018-11-14, 01:50 PM
The easiest way to do this is via worldbuilding. Having a world akin to Scott Pilgrim Vs The World , the Songonauts podcast or, even better, the Suckerpunch movie, where all of the battles are dueling performances, but are lived out in a physical battle sense, in the theatre of the mind. You'd add a layer of metagame, as your characters would just be dancers and singers, but then in the battle, they'd become their various classes in that "theatre of the mind" sense.

I could also see you wanting to avoid that because it is REALLY meta and would require a couple layers more of world building. However, it could be really fun, too. The Band of PCs comes up against a heavy metal band, and when they start the performance duel, the heavy metal band altogether is a single giant construct.

Other options include:

Reducing it down to just using musical tropes, a la Nicholas Eames' Kings of the Wyld series.
Use the 4e Skill challenge mechanic to give the performance, in a DDR/Guitar Hero Style
Using songs as the basis for mechanical and abilities of encounters of a trippy, abstract and faceless, almost-environmental entity. For example, an encounter where the party has to perform/battle Queen's "Don't Stop Me Now", the first verse/phase of the fight would include a fireball, a tiger, and the Reverse Gravity spell. The encounters are less based on defeating a single thing (although sometimes it is), but often to simply survive the fight.






Handwave the concept into reality, similar to League of Legends' Pentakill band. I even have a wizard homebrew based on Karthus, the DeathSinger, of Pentakill, in my Sig.
https://boosteria.org/wp-content/uploads/pentakill-band.jpg

Juicy Kisses
2018-11-14, 02:20 PM
Let's say you give everyone proficiency in 1 Instrument and allow Expertise in Instruments with an opportunity for all classes to acquire expertise through downtime training/practice/jamming with cool peeps. Or something else, like at level X you are proficient in your instrument.

Bards & Rogues can then potentially acquire Expertise with multiple instruments, representing their superior Skill Monkey Powers, but they do not feel required to use their Class Features on acquiring Instrument Expertise.

Bards/Rogues can take Expertise in Performance which can be used simulate broader skill at Music & Showmanship in General.

Edit: Bob the Barbarian Drummer gets thrown in jail before gig. There is no time to bust him out Mike the Lead Singer Bard jumps on his Drum kit & Sings for that one show.

Perhaps then this concept requires less of creating new mechanics to work it in and more focus on worldbuilding and creative uses of what mechanics already exist?


The easiest way to do this is via worldbuilding. Having a world akin to Scott Pilgrim Vs The World , the Songonauts podcast or, even better, the Suckerpunch movie, where all of the battles are dueling performances, but are lived out in a physical battle sense, in the theatre of the mind. You'd add a layer of metagame, as your characters would just be dancers and singers, but then in the battle, they'd become their various classes in that "theatre of the mind" sense.

I could also see you wanting to avoid that because it is REALLY meta and would require a couple layers more of world building. However, it could be really fun, too. The Band of PCs comes up against a heavy metal band, and when they start the performance duel, the heavy metal band altogether is a single giant construct.

Other options include:

Reducing it down to just using musical tropes, a la Nicholas Eames' Kings of the Wyld series.
Use the 4e Skill challenge mechanic to give the performance, in a DDR/Guitar Hero Style
Using songs as the basis for mechanical and abilities of encounters of a trippy, abstract and faceless, almost-environmental entity. For example, an encounter where the party has to perform/battle Queen's "Don't Stop Me Now", the first verse/phase of the fight would include a fireball, a tiger, and the Reverse Gravity spell. The encounters are less based on defeating a single thing (although sometimes it is), but often to simply survive the fight.



Thank you for all the examples in media that could help with this, the only one that had come to mind for me was Brutal Legend. All of these could help me come up with ideas on how this concept could work well.

Skill challenges could be a very interesting way to handle musical encounters, especially in combination with your idea of abstract encounters. I love the Queen idea! The idea of building encounters to be based on a particular song is very interesting, perhaps this could be put to good use.

lunaticfringe
2018-11-14, 02:39 PM
What is the Goal of adding Music to the Campaign? Why do people need to have Class Variety? What's the premise?

Fame? Adjust the Renown mechanics to suit your needs. Create Rank & Renown requirements for perks & boons. The players have to play occasional gigs to increase Renown. Performing poorly lowers renown gains of could cause a loss of Renown. This seems useful for a Jabberjaw style campaign. The Party is a Band that has weirdo adventures & plays music occasionally.

Head to Head Band Battles? Ship rules UA just dropped. Turn Bands into a weird creature things, Members have a special Commands they can use in a Band fight. Passing/Failing Instrument checks affects the Crowd which can grant buffs, healing, advantage/disadvantage, cast spell like effects or deal damage to the bands. Keep HP, AC, & Damage output fairly standard unless it's vital to the story. Initiative is just a coin toss before the show.

Juicy Kisses
2018-11-14, 03:02 PM
What is the Goal of adding Music to the Campaign? Why do people need to have Class Variety? What's the premise?

Fame? Adjust the Renown mechanics to suit your needs. Create Rank & Renown requirements for perks & boons. The players have to play occasional gigs to increase Renown. Performing poorly lowers renown gains of could cause a loss of Renown. This seems useful for a Jabberjaw style campaign. The Party is a Band that has weirdo adventures & plays music occasionally.

Head to Head Band Battles? Ship rules UA just dropped. Turn Bands into a weird creature things, Members have a special Commands they can use in a Band fight. Passing/Failing Instrument checks affects the Crowd which can grant buffs, healing, advantage/disadvantage, cast spell like effects or deal damage to the bands. Keep HP, AC, & Damage output fairly standard unless it's vital to the story. Initiative is just a coin toss before the show.

The goal of adding music to the campaign is merely to change the approach to things and mix it up a bit. The reason I am making this thread is to contemplate over this concept, which I have seen pop up a fair number of times on this forum as well as in several groups I have played with myself. The primary issue I have seen come up with games like this is that it by nature pushes everyone towards bard, which I feel like is incredibly limiting for individual characters. Thus, I wanted to see what kind of things could be done to increase the variety of character options and make the less art oriented classes-such as barbarian-for able to adjust to the theme of having a musical campaign. People don't necessarily NEED to have class variety, I just want to come up with ideas to help provide that as an option.

Fame would certainly be an interesting approach. A world centered around music where bands constantly compete for fame, and thus the party must regularly perform shows, duel other bands, etc to increase their renown.

I haven't looked at the ship rules in UA, but those do sound like something that could mix up combat or provide a medium for a "battle of the bands" type thing. From the sound of it, it looks like that would require little to no readjustment of the rules to fit a band rather than a ship.