Ideas for a Chaotic Evil Bard and how to make it work with a not evil party

[GigaHype]

Hello everyone,

So, I'm going to start a campaign soon, and I was thinking of making a regular Lore Bard, with chaotic neutral alignment. But lately, I've been thinking of making something far more challenging (and especially because my friends let me die in the final battle of our last campaign, AFTER we killed the final boss, and we were cleaning the last boss minions, and when I was in the ground, rolling my death saves, they chose to kill the minions instead of stabilizing me), so, I'm thinking, with the help of my DM, of creating a character that'll reveal itself as something like a mid-campaign evil boss against the party. After that, I'll have another character ready, someone that was somehow kept prisoner of the previous character, or something like that.
One idea for the first character would be something like a lvl1 bard that is, unknowingly to the party, a mid-level warlock. And the DM is asking me to have a motive to kidnap children and having a way to mind control them.

So, now, my concerns:

1. What would be a safe way to keep myself alive until "my time has come", and how could I decept my party members?
2. Should I go for College of Whispers, or should I still take Lore? I want to be seen like a regular character to my party members, but I want to build and advantage against them for our battle.
3. Regarding all of this background, and the multiclass, which race would benefit me the most?

Honestly, I just want to have my little vengeance for the last campaign, and play around with my buddies, but I want to keep it as immersive as possible. So I'll gladly hear out any tips that you might have for me.

Cheers and good rolls!

[terodil]

I'll just try and contribute a few thoughts regarding bullet point 1, the RP/story aspect, as I don't see myself as qualified enough to give advice on the mechanical bits.


I'm thinking, with the help of my DM, of creating a character that'll reveal itself as something like a mid-campaign evil boss against the party. After that, I'll have another character ready, someone that was somehow kept prisoner of the previous character, or something like that. One idea for the first character would be something like a lvl1 bard that is, unknowingly to the party, a mid-level warlock. And the DM is asking me to have a motive to kidnap children and having a way to mind control them.

The great advantage you have is that you don't have to barge into the door announcing that you're evil. As a schemer and manipulator, you can perfectly well play the part of the CN or even CG party bard, because in the grand scheme of your designs, those 'alignment violations' are but a drop in the sea. From a narrative point of view, I think you (or rather, your character, I don't feel like being overly precise atm) should make some 'mistakes' as a subtle way to foreshadow the big reveal. Mind that such mistakes do not put you in direct conflict with your party, but that they're flavour items that put scratches on the veneer of the perfectly acceptable party member. E.g., have a tick that does not fit with your agreeable image, drop a rare off-the-cuff remark that raises an eyebrow with your party members, or fluff your magic so that it feels off, almost sinister. Or go entirely the other way and be overly friendly and agreeable to the point where it also raises an eyebrow. Everything goes as long as it's subtle (though increasingly less so) and doesn't immediately tip everybody off.

As for your evil plans of world-domination: I think it is very important that you have a clear ultimate goal for your character, and it'd probably helpful if it somehow tied into the campaign. Maybe it's a task you're doing for your infernal patron? Never lose sight of this and don't do evil just for kicks -- if you do, it should clearly feed into this objective, and ideally in a way that other party members will later recall it going 'ooooh... so THAT's why he did that!'. As for the kids, a very simple idea would be to use those kids as a spy network (kids are amazingly perceptive and easily manipulated, you don't even need to mind-control them), or have them 'procure' McGuffins for you. If you feel particularly evil, you could even have a kid assassin squad to unnoticeably get rid of people who get too close to discovering your secret (this could be a great opportunity, where an NPC reveals to the party that something nefarious (i.e., a part of your machinations) is going on (party: quest accepted), but when the party finally tracks down the one guy who could illuminate the mystery, the party finds him being crowded by urchins in a busy marketplace... until he suddenly he sinks to the ground, and the kids take off in all directions. Embellish with your character rushing to 'help', i.e. nab some McGuffin, which the party might 'accidentally' witness, but which you pass off as an entirely innocuous and unimportant item.)

One thing I'm stumped about is how to make the 'secretly a mid-level warlock' part convincing. I mean ability-wise it's easy to just use only your current bard-level, but how will you fake taking damage that would kill the bard but not the warlock? Maybe you could get a homebrewed 'Ring of Feign Death' or similar?

[Keravath]

If you have a strong motivation for the character (not the player for the party letting your character die in the previous campaign) to infiltrate the party and to maintain a cover that disguises your natural urges then you could make it work.

However, from a play perspective. The other players will be immediately suspicious something is up when you constantly hide your character sheet. If your character is really a higher level warlock now taking levels of bard and pretending to be a lower level bard the issue is that your skills/hit points/abilites/saving throws do not match the character you are portraying. What happens in the first combat if you take 10 hit points of damage and your friends joke about letting you die again? Or roll a saving throw that the bard would fail but the warlock would pass? Do you pretend to fall to the ground and roll death saves or pretend to be affected by the spell? (Honestly, I am not sure what sort of "friends" these actually are if they let your character die at the end of the last campaign ... unless you were playing an evil campaign?)

Also, and this depends on both your fellow players and the DM, I am unsure that player revenge on the other players for action in a previous campaign is appropriate motivation to try and mess with them in the next campaign. Unless it is all in good fun and everyone would be onside with it?

[OracularPoet]

Glamour bard would be great for kidnapping children. And if only your reveal happened as late as 14, Unbreakable Majesty would be wicked to use against your now former friends. Maybe your DM would give you a secret level bump just prior to the reveal?

Also, as a CE bard, you simply must work in biting the head off a bat at some point. Maybe when you sing your songs backward they sound like Abyssal and have Vicious Mockery or Dissonant Whispers effects, or that’s how you warlock powers work.

[Jcp1195]

First things first, get Expertise in Deception.

As far as coming up with reasons to be evil, it’s really not that hard. We recently beat a long time nemesis in one of my friends’ campaigns. He was a Changeling Rogue serial killer who witnessed the death of his tribe at the hands of a noble family who thought they were “Sub-human Mongrels” encroaching on their domain, so he started kidnapping any Noble he could find and putting them in very elaborate Saw/Jigsaw-esque situations.

If you’re dead set on a Bardlock, I’d recommend a pact of the chain Great Old One Warlock. As for familiar that’s pretty much your up to you but I’d say the quasit is best. Shapechanging, at will Invisibility, it’s a really helpful familiar at your beck and call. With Great Old One’s level one telepathy, your DM might let you use your Whisper Bard’s Venemous Words since you are technically still speaking to someone, and drive people around you insane with voices in their heads. Also keeping them in range for the duration might not always be easy, but it might work.

Alternatively, if you’re REALLY scared about dying, and your DM allows Unearthed Arcana, you can do Raven Queen Warlock (still take Pact of the chain and have 2 Ravens for S**** and giggles) and at level six you can enter a state of almost permanent invulnerability, but it makes you pretty much useless in battle.

As for race... I’m going to give you an idea that might seem weird but stay with me here: be a Kenku.

You get a +2 to Dex which is immeasurably helpful, though the +1 Wis is mainly only helpful for saves. 2 skill Proficiencies, advantage on all checks to make forgeries (Crime Admission notes, Ransoms signed by someone else, Suicide Notes, etc.) But argueably most useful of all is your Mimicry ability.

In case you don’t know about Kenku, they can only speak in Mimicry. They can understand Language, but if they do not hear a word spoken, they can’t speak it, and even then they can only repeat words in the same voice that they heard it. This is incredibly useful too you as it helps you play the fool. A clueless looking Kenku whose only known word seems to be “Apple”, is usually the last person suspected as a murderer/criminal (trust me I know this from experience). If you can figure out how to throw your voice, a few strategically placed racial slurs/insults in a large crowd could make for a lot of fun.

Not to mention if you and your DM work out you achieving a gang, you can find a Kenku tribe where you are the most intelligent one there and can become the Master as per Kenku tribal law, that way you have some minions to fall back on, not to mention the ones that you can blackmail into helping you or ones that you cause to become so paranoid that they attack others.

An important thing to note too, when you kill someone and steal their shadow with the whisper Bard ability, it does overwrite your Kenku speech so you don’t need to worry about not talking your way into someone believing you’re who the shadow was and not some weird guy walking around shouting “Apple.”

As for staying alive until the point, you will want to play dumb like your life depended on it. Bump your stealth checks and Chr saves as quickly as possible and when in combat remain unseen and do your best to avoid Charm spells PERIOD. Also remember that if you get hit with Zone of Truth or Command, it’s up to you what Truths you do or don’t say. The only way you’d really be forced into actually truthfully admitting your crimes is Charm spells, so again, avoid them like the plague.

And... I think that about covers it. Good luck.

[Nhorianscum]

Hello everyone,

So, I'm going to start a campaign soon, and I was thinking of making a regular Lore Bard, with chaotic neutral alignment. But lately, I've been thinking of making something far more challenging (and especially because my friends let me die in the final battle of our last campaign, AFTER we killed the final boss, and we were cleaning the last boss minions, and when I was in the ground, rolling my death saves, they chose to kill the minions instead of stabilizing me), so, I'm thinking, with the help of my DM, of creating a character that'll reveal itself as something like a mid-campaign evil boss against the party. After that, I'll have another character ready, someone that was somehow kept prisoner of the previous character, or something like that.
One idea for the first character would be something like a lvl1 bard that is, unknowingly to the party, a mid-level warlock. And the DM is asking me to have a motive to kidnap children and having a way to mind control them.

So, now, my concerns:

1. What would be a safe way to keep myself alive until "my time has come", and how could I decept my party members?
2. Should I go for College of Whispers, or should I still take Lore? I want to be seen like a regular character to my party members, but I want to build and advantage against them for our battle.
3. Regarding all of this background, and the multiclass, which race would benefit me the most?

Honestly, I just want to have my little vengeance for the last campaign, and play around with my buddies, but I want to keep it as immersive as possible. So I'll gladly hear out any tips that you might have for me.

Cheers and good rolls!

Step one, dig up the social god guide and get familiar with the concept.

After that talk to the party. Don't spill the beans just make sure they'll enjoy playing with a secretly evil dude.

After that...

Easiest way to play this out imo is to just match your mechanics to your goals. Play completely straight laced through early progression, then (quietly, slowly, and very carefully) start using your sky high social skills with enhance ability and charm person in malicious ways, as these abilities rise get more and more brazen with them until you are eventually found out. Then go bonkers. Just respect your build in limits and it will flow natually.

As for the mechanics that depends on the expected level of your campain, in a low progression setting go for rouge1 lock 5, (magic innitiate bard from vhuman) then pick up swashbuckler once your casting stabilizes and dive back into lock. In a high progression campain lore 6, or lore 3, rouge 1 will be the dive point. Or just play a straight lore bard (with or without 2 levels in lock).

Partron wise, we have a choice of hexblade or feindlock (strong combat mechanics, sorta ok fluff), goolock, or feylock (strong social mechanics, good fluff), and my personal preference for this, undying lock (kinda eeeeh mechanics all around but GREAT fluff.)

Pact wise tome all the way. You do your dirty work through "light" activity" and there's no rest for the wicked!

As for mind control, you can do this just by talking. With expertise in the 4 social skills and a suite of magic and invocations to enhance this you can have those little kiddies murdering, and eating their parents as they swear a blood oath in your name by level 5 and oh so much more. Be sure to pick up danse macabre at lock 9 to animate a big bag of your most dedicated child soilders bones. Bonus points if they can constantly scream out their last living moments of fear and betrayal!

Staying alive: Be careful, never use your own face for deceptions, never openly interfere with the party, never show your ability to change appearances to them. Play with your own survival first and foremost and you'll make it. Be their bestest buddy and main benefactor. Make those characters love your character like a brother. This is what makes betrayal hurt the most after all!

Turning against the party: Walk around a major city wearing their faces spamming friends every night for a week before they get there and then mass suggestion the imminent mob. Have your army of kiddies hunt them through the chaos (singing disturbing nursery rhymes ofc) as every major power declares them outlaws, treasoners, and just plain bad people. Really drag them through the mud. If they get free? Great final conflict time! With every ritual under the sun short rest slots, skills for days, and all that free time you can make some truely sadistic death traps, enslave, brainwash, or otherwise bind all sorts of nasties, and just build your own personal slice of hell. Get creative. If they hang for their "crimes"? Even better? Preserve their corpses (nooses intact, in evening wear) for when you want a stylish danse macabre.

Motive? You're a twisted bad baaad person with strong views on family. You want the whole world to "love" each other the way you do, to raise "your children" the right way outside of this crazy structured morally backwards society, and you "love" your adoptive party familly the most of all... I suggest going full sunny familly murder cult with this.

[rahimka]

Crazy suggestion: Don't hide from the party that your bard is evil. Let them think they understand you are playing a "token evil teammate"

Maybe he's also a bit of (dark) comedy relief, he's a bard after all, he can get away with a few off-color jokes and comments about how the simplest solution would just be to fireball the villain AND the hostages. But he's still on our side.

Make/let them think that at his worst he's just a conman. I mean, he's greedy and manipulative of NPCs. But, c'mon, he's still on our side. And sure, he leans just a little more into that murder-hobo mentality than the rest of the group and, yeah, there've been a few times when he said just the wrong thing at the wrong time and blew the party's chance at a peaceful solution. But he's still on our side, right?

And then comes the day when the sh*t hits the fan, when the Bardlock is standing there with his blade drawn and the MacGuffin in hand, laughing maniacally, and the DM calls for everybody to roll initiative, and the rest of the party can only whisper in disbelief, "but... he's on our side... right?"

[Malifice]

But lately, I've been thinking of making something far more challenging (and especially because my friends let me die in the final battle of our last campaign, AFTER we killed the final boss, and we were cleaning the last boss minions, and when I was in the ground, rolling my death saves, they chose to kill the minions instead of stabilizing me),

Short for 'My friends were jerks; so now I want to be a Jerk back.'

How about you instead tallk with your friends about why they did that?

[JakOfAllTirades]

Crazy suggestion: Don't hide from the party that your bard is evil. Let them think they understand you are playing a "token evil teammate"

Maybe he's also a bit of (dark) comedy relief, he's a bard after all, he can get away with a few off-color jokes and comments about how the simplest solution would just be to fireball the villain AND the hostages. But he's still on our side.

Make/let them think that at his worst he's just a conman. I mean, he's greedy and manipulative of NPCs. But, c'mon, he's still on our side. And sure, he leans just a little more into that murder-hobo mentality than the rest of the group and, yeah, there've been a few times when he said just the wrong thing at the wrong time and blew the party's chance at a peaceful solution. But he's still on our side, right?

And then comes the day when the sh*t hits the fan, when the Bardlock is standing there with his blade drawn and the MacGuffin in hand, laughing maniacally, and the DM calls for everybody to roll initiative, and the rest of the party can only whisper in disbelief, "but... he's on our side... right?"

All of this.

Also, hiding your character sheet from the group is easy: bring a fake character sheet to the table and keep it in plain sight to put your fellow players at ease. But have your real character sheet on a tablet or mobile device that only you can see. And make sure the DM has a copy.