Help with Half-Orc Forge Cleric build/feats

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

Hey there! I'm rather new to D&D in general and just started my first 5e game a little over a month ago. We're coming up on level 4 either Sunday, or the play session after, and I wanted to get some input on my build since this is my first character and I don't want to fall into any "traps" when it comes to choosing a feat or an ASI.

Half-Orc Forge Cleric
Str: 17
Dex: 8
Con: 15
Int: 10
Wis: 16
Cha: 8

Party Comp: Zealot Barbarian, Dex Fighter (some type of archer), Celestial Warlock, Sorcerer(some damage type), and a Divination Wizard (Vhuman with Observant).

I want to even out STR and CON, but I'm planning on eventually taking Resilience: Con, so that would take care of that portion. I'm also considering War Caster since I had originally been trying to build myself rather tanky (our Barbarian used to be a Rogue, but died during our first session and decided to reroll) and the plan now is to go shoulder to shoulder and kind of form a big meat shield with the Barbarian to protect all of our ranged people. Or at the very least stay somewhere between the front and back lines to intercept enemies coming through. I'm also looking at some of the half-feats that would push my strength to 18, but I'm not sure how important any of them are, or even how important STR really is to me. I don't have an martial weapons proficiencies, so Weapons Master would get me a STR+1 and at least Warhammer, but I feel like that's a trap if I eventually decide to dip Fighter 1. Athlete and Tavern Brawler don't seem terribly useful, though I do have proficiency in athletics which might help. Which leaves me with Heavy Armor Master, which seems like it'd be a good choice for lower levels, but will eventually drop off in usefulness the further along I get, especially since Forge gets some resistances later. Orcish fury seems limited and doesn't mesh well with my character, though I'm up to having my mind changed.

Outside of trying to bump up my STR or CON, I could also just boost my WIS...which seems a little bit like the "boring, but effective" choice. I'm kind of more inclined towards grabbing a feat for level 4, grabbing Resilience: CON for level 8, then bumping WIS at 12 and 16, since I like the idea of wisdom being something obtained through the course of experiences over a long journey. Unless having a WIS of 16 is going to feel stifling, in which case maybe Resilience: CON at level 4, WIS bump at 8, feat at 12, WIS bump at 16.

Or I'll just do something crazy like forgetting about attributes completely and grabbing Prodigy to get expertise in smithing and build a tank. Or grab magic initiate for Booming Blade and something else. Or Sentinel to stop movement into the back line.

I guess my question is really two parts:
1) What should I get for Feats or ASIs in order to optimize this build as a tanky front line support?
2) How crippling would it be if I said "screw it" and just kept my attributes as is and just took Feats for flavor/effectiveness (War Caster/Sentinel/Magic Initiate/Resilience: Con/Prodigy/Weapons Master/Heavy Armor Master/Shield Master/etc.)

For reference, I went heavy into the blacksmithing side of the Forge Cleric for my background and RP, so would prefer to stick with blunt instruments (hammer/mace/warhammer/maul/etc.) but could be convinced to switch for a good reason. Our game is also set in Tal'Dorei, the homebrewed setting from Critical Role, and we tend to have a 50/50 RP/Combat split, with it moving further in one direction or another depending on what's currently going on in that session. We're also basically using all source material for the game, but we're mostly staying away from Unearthed Arcana stuff unless we have a good RP reason for it or it's just for fluff.

[CTurbo]

The thing with 5e Clerics is you may use your weapon sometimes at lower levels, but in the mid to upper levels you rarely will. So l would not waste any feat on actual weapon attacks.

What you WILL be relying on for your entire career is concentration checks. You most certainly want Warcaster OR Res(Con) but not necessarily both.

So putting +1 in Str and Con is not a bad choice as anytime you can bump 2 secondary stats with one ASI, it's a good move. With an even Con score, you could just go Warcaster next instead of Res.

+2 Wis is ALWAYS a good move for any Cleric. Boring yes, but yes effective.

Heavy Armor Master is an excellent vhuman 1st level feat, but probably only a "decent" 4th level feat, and mediocre 8th level feat.

Weapon feats get a big F+ and l wouldn't even consider one.

Other feat considerations would be Magic Initiate for fire cantrips and possible Find Familiar which is always good for every character, and Sentinel is a solid late feat pickup for Clerics as it let's you use your Divine Strike again with your reaction, and is great for battlefield control.

Personally l would want my first two ASIs to be +2 and either Warcaster or Res(Con). You really don't want to spend levels 8-11 with a 16 Wis or not having a concentration boost.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

I was considering Magic Initiate mainly for Booming Blade to help be a more sticky tank (would probably reskin the damage to fire, even though that'd make it a tad weaker) and for the Shield spell. Find Familiar would be useful, but the Divination Wizard already has a familiar and the Celestial Warlock is Pact of the Chain with an Imp, so another familiar would be redundant and just add more clutter to the battles.

The only issue is fitting Magic Initiate into the build at a decent level. I could do it at level 4, then take Resilient Con at 8, then +2 WIS for 12 and 16, but one of the main uses I was considering was throwing out a Booming Blade for Opportunity Attacks, which would need Warcaster. For that I'd either need to drop Resilient, which would leave my CON at 15 for awhile, or drop one of the +2 WIS, which would leave my Wisdom at 16 until level 16 and wouldn't max until we reached level 19, or possibly even 20 if I dipped Fighter, which is looking less and less useful honestly, since it would basically just be giving me +1 AC and Martial Weapons.

My options seem to have been whittled down at least, so thanks for that. I think right now it looks a bit like:

1) (4) Magic Initiate (8) Warcaster (12) Str +1 Con +1 OR WIS +2 (16) WIS +2 - (19) If we get there either maxing WIS or balancing STR and CON.
2) (4) STR+1 CON+1 (8) Warcaster (12) Wis +2 (16) WIS +2 (19) Magic Initiate/Something for flavor
3) (4) Resilient: Con (8) WIS+2 (12) Sentinel (16) WIS +2 (19) Something for flavor

Basically, it seems to be boiling down to some combination of Magic Inititate, Warcaster, Resilience Con, Sentinel, STR +1 and CON +1, and WIS +2.

I think I'm just trying to figure out which of these would benefit me the most early in my career and which are better picks for later on when I have more options. If I pick Warcaster, I feel obligated to pick Magic Initiate to have an easy go-to cantrip that punishes enemies for not stopping. If I go Resilient Con, I'd probably leave my STR at 17, since Con would be even and it wouldn't have as much bang for its buck. Warcaster and Sentinel seem like they'd be trying to accomplish the same things (stop enemies from moving past) so they're mostly exclusive. Also, at the moment, taking Resilient Con would give me +3 to Constitution saving throws, which I've heard is the average that Warcaster gives to concentration checks, so Warcaster would be almost solely for the Attack of Opportunity spells (our DM hasn't been much of a stickler with the Somatic/Material spell casting as a cleric).

Honestly, I think I'm leaning towards options 1 and 3, with 3 falling into the "boring, but effective" camp, where all of my stat bases are covered and I spend more time casting and utilizing Sentinel for opportunity attacks either to stop enemies from advancing, or in response to them attacking the Barbarian. Option 1 seems more complex and maybe a little gimicky, but I feel like a Divine Strike Booming Blade would be a decent melee option for awhile and the Shield Spell could help me be more tanky in a pinch.

[bid]

I want to even out STR and CON, but I'm planning on eventually
That's the only trap you fell into. Starting at Str16 / Con16 would have removed that conundrum.

And yeah, you won't use your weapon all that often. You still fall behind martials even with divine strike.

[JNAProductions]

That's the only trap you fell into. Starting at Str16 / Con16 would have removed that conundrum.

And yeah, you won't use your weapon all that often. You still fall behind martials even with divine strike.

It looks like rolled stats, judging by the 16 in Wis.

So that might've not been possible.

[ImproperJustice]

Currently running a Forge Cleric myself, and others are right, melee is an unusual occurance.
Most of the time you will be blasting with Heat Metal, Wall of Fire, and tearing groups apart with Animate Objects.
Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon also pump out damage from a safe distance, and your cantrips will match your melee damage soon enough.
Still, it sometimes feels real good to whack something with a flaming hammer.

Just plug yourself in where the group needs you most and recognize that late game you will mainly be a caster.
Pumping Wisdom and Con are great.
Resilient Con is excellent, and Toughness is a good pick up as well.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

That's the only trap you fell into. Starting at Str16 / Con16 would have removed that conundrum.

And yeah, you won't use your weapon all that often. You still fall behind martials even with divine strike.


It looks like rolled stats, judging by the 16 in Wis.

So that might've not been possible.

You're both right. We rolled stats and my array was 16, 15, 14, 10, 8, 8. I'd already created a big old backstory about my Half-Orc Forge Cleric Blacksmith, so when we rolled that 16 went straight into WIS. If I was thinking ahead and realized how annoying odd numbered stats are, I could've dropped the 14 into STR and the 15 into CON to have my primary and secondary stats all be an even 16, 16, 16, but at the time we were making characters, I was the only STR based character, so I bumped my STR and dropped my CON a bit, so that we wouldn't get stymied by any STR based challenges that popped up. Now that our Rogue died and reincarnated as a beefy Barbarian, that's less important and I'm slightly regretting the decision, but we're a month into the campaign, so it's too late to change that now.


Currently running a Forge Cleric myself, and others are right, melee is an unusual occurance.
Most of the time you will be blasting with Heat Metal, Wall of Fire, and tearing groups apart with Animate Objects.
Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon also pump out damage from a safe distance, and your cantrips will match your melee damage soon enough.
Still, it sometimes feels real good to whack something with a flaming hammer.

Just plug yourself in where the group needs you most and recognize that late game you will mainly be a caster.
Pumping Wisdom and Con are great.
Resilient Con is excellent, and Toughness is a good pick up as well.

I think I'm thinking too hard about trying to be a melee tank, instead of a midline support, since I was originally building to be the beefy frontliner. The Barbarian can probably handle most melee and we have a ton of spellcasters and ranged, so maybe I should just focus on beefing up my support and staying power. Would it be overkill to grab both Resilient and Warcaster? Is Sentinel still worth a look, since it doesn't seem like I have too much to do with my reactions outside of straight opportunity attacks. Is Magic Initiate still worth a look for the once per long rest +5 AC on reaction and melee cantrip?

I think I've narrowed it down now to: (4) Resilient Con (8) WIS +2 (12) Sentinel/War Caster/Magic Initiate (16) WIS +2
With the possibility of futzing around with the order if Magic Initiate is a good early feat to invest in. i.e. (4) Magic Initiate (8) Resilient Con (12) Wis +2 (16) Wis +2
Would Magic Initiate be worth the early investment, or should I scrap that and just become the biggest, beefiest support caster and I can be?

[stoutstien]

I may go against the grain but a Melee focused cleric can do just fine. Forge gets a free floating +1 weapon means you can grab the blunt alignment adjuster of choice and go to town.
Clerics are just fine as a Melee focused class.

[CTurbo]

War, Tempest, and Nature are better in melee. I don't think I would bother with Booming Blade for this build, and I really don't like Shield for a Magic Initiate spell since you can only cast it once per day.

As boring as it sounds, I'd probably go +2 Wis at 4, Res(Con) at 8 and then review it again after that. The only other option I think I would consider would be to take the +1 Str and Con at 4, Warcaster at 8, and then +2 Wis at 12 because it does bug me to have those two odd scores lol.

Yes in hindsight you should have started 16 Str and 16 Con but oh well

[CantigThimble]

My advice for clerics based on my experience is pretty much concentration saves and max wisdom. It may feel kinda bad to have a 17 strength and slightly meh attacks but the thing is clerics just feel SO much better with high wisdom. More spells prepared, better spiritual weapon attacks, better spell DC, it just helps so much.

[CTurbo]

I made a melee focused Greatsword wielding Tempest Cleric where I prioritized Str over Wis and it was a fun character to play, but I wasn't as good at being an actual Cleric since I didn't have any means of maintaining Concentration and my Wis was never higher than 16.

On the flip side, I've played a Max Wis, High Con, Warcaster Tempest Cleric and it was just so much better and more effective at doing what the 5e Cleric class is supposed to be doing. It may SEEM boring to just max Wis and take Res(Con) and Warcaster but really that's how you'll get the most from your feature set.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

Thanks for the input everyone! I'm pretty sure I was just overthinking it.

I'll focus on getting my WIS maxed and grab Resilient Con pretty early, then just focus on being a big beefy Cleric. I think I was just worried 'cause at level 3 I feel pretty strapped for resources and options, but from everything I've read, it should even out a bit more at later levels.

[solidork]

I actually played a Half Orc War Cleric from 5-13 (doing Princes of the Apocalypse). I went Resilient: Con (rounding up to 16) at 8 and +2 Wis (Up to 18) at 12, but I also had a magic item that let me cast Booming Blade. Without a melee cantrip, eventually it will be better to use Sacred Flame for at will damage even if you're standing in melee with people. It was important enough for my character identity as someone who smacks people with weapons that I would have taken Magic Initiate at 8 to pick it up, if I had to. If I was going to pick a first level spell that wasn't Find Familiar, I would be more tempted by utility choices like Expeditious Retreat, Disguise Self or Comprehend Languages. Get something that adds something new to your playbook instead of just making you better at what you're already good at imo.

When I eventually got up to a +9 to my Con saving throw (I had a luckstone) it was an amazing feeling to be able to upcast Spirit Guardians to 5th level and then just wade in there and KNOW that those mooks couldn't make you drop your focus.

[MikeRoxTheBoat]

Thanks everyone! I hit level 4 after our session tonight and I decided to go with Resilience: Con. I'll probably go WIS +2 next, then see how I feel from there.

I was considering switching the feat order around a bit, but the boss we fought tonight had an electrical discharge that would cause damage to everyone in melee range every time it took non-magic damage, so, needless to say, I dropped my concentration fairly quick trying to keep the baddie flanked with our Barbarian. I was still doing pretty well between mace attacks and Spiritual Weapon, though, and probably would've done just as well backing up a few feet and Sacred Flaming/Spiritual Weaponing. I ended up having to burn my Relentless Endurance and almost bit it, but the Divination Wizard and Celestial Warlock pulled off a Hold Person and bad portent roll combo and we made short work of him after that.

The whole thing made me rethink my survivability and concentration, so, Resilience!

[CTurbo]

Thanks everyone! I hit level 4 after our session tonight and I decided to go with Resilience: Con. I'll probably go WIS +2 next, then see how I feel from there.

I was considering switching the feat order around a bit, but the boss we fought tonight had an electrical discharge that would cause damage to everyone in melee range every time it took non-magic damage, so, needless to say, I dropped my concentration fairly quick trying to keep the baddie flanked with our Barbarian. I was still doing pretty well between mace attacks and Spiritual Weapon, though, and probably would've done just as well backing up a few feet and Sacred Flaming/Spiritual Weaponing. I ended up having to burn my Relentless Endurance and almost bit it, but the Divination Wizard and Celestial Warlock pulled off a Hold Person and bad portent roll combo and we made short work of him after that.

The whole thing made me rethink my survivability and concentration, so, Resilience!

Sounds good! Boring but effective lol