Duskblade Build

[Jforjeff]

Hey guys, sorry for the multiple threads. I am a terrible person.

After much stressing and worrying, I think I'll just go with a human Duskblade in our level 4 starting campaign. I'll probably just stay Duskblade for all 20 levels unless you can convince me to do something else. ;)

I think I'll use either a Greatsword or a Guisarme.

At level 4 as a human duskblade, I would have 3 feats correct? What 3 feats would be best? The first 4 I see mentioned often are Power Attack, Knowledge Devotion, Obtain Familiar, and Arcane Strike.

[DeTess]

Power attack and obtain familiar are definitely good. Arcane strike looks good, but I don't think you meet its prerequisites at level 4. Knowkedge devotion can be quite good if you can afford to get all those knowledge skills.

[Jforjeff]

Power attack and obtain familiar are definitely good. Arcane strike looks good, but I don't think you meet its prerequisites at level 4. Knowkedge devotion can be quite good if you can afford to get all those knowledge skills.

I don’t know what knowledge devotion does or how to use it, lol. I suck.

I just know I am going to be using power attack and channeling shocking grasp.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Those feats you listed are definitely good choices. I'd also recommend later taking Improved Familiar (DMG, CW) if you take Obtain Familiar, to get something like an Imp or Quasit that can use items like tanglefoot bags.

Combat Reflexes is pretty good if you use a reach weapon, you can wear armor spikes to still threaten and make attacks into adjacent squares.

Starting at 4th level, you may want to consider what items you can start with. EWP for a Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer (MMIV p101, 1d12 19-20/x4) or a Kaorti Resin (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a) Falchion (must be at least +1 magic, 18-20/x4) could be worthwhile.

If you want to involve cheese, Magical Training (PGtF) gets you a spellbook with some 0-level spells, which you can add more spells to via the same method a Wizard uses per the Rules Compendium. Combined with Versatile Spellcaster (RotD), you can spend two spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher, including spells you've added to that spellbook. You'll likely need to have the spellbook open and read the spell as you cast it, limiting its usefulness in combat, but it's fantastic for utility spells and long-duration buffs.

The feat Ability Enhancer in Dragon Compendium (requires Spell Focus: Transmutation) makes your Bull's Strength a +6 instead of +4, it makes your Animalistic Power add +4 to Str, Dex, and Con instead of +2, etc. Sadly, SF: T is likely going to be largely useless, I think the only other feat it qualifies you for is Toughening Transmutation (CM) but that's not even worth taking. Still, Ability Enhancer can be fairly significant for quite a while, and if you can retrain (PH2) or hire an NPC Psion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) to Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) those into different feats later on then it's definitely worth considering.

[DeTess]

I don’t know what knowledge devotion does or how to use it, lol. I suck.


In that case might I suggest either educating yourself or playing something simpler(like that swift hunter)? You seem to be following the advice of optimization guides, and though that's not a bad thing, if you don't understand why a choice is better you'll probably have a lot of trouble.

For example, if you take knowledge devotion without building around it, it's going to be worse than weapon focus, which most guides rate as a very bad feat.

If you havn't yet, read trough the player handbook. If you're following a guide, make sure to read the actual rules of your class and feats and check that you understand what the guide is telling you to do.

I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh, but from personal experience I've found that it can make the game worse to play for everyone if someone tries to play something they don't understand in the terms of the game.

[bean illus]

Alright, I'm gonna try to talk you into a dip.

So, a duskblade's biggest limitation is spells known. Their list is small, their known gets bigger later, but spell levels come slow (you start each with 1 known). Retraining spells only happens 8 times, no off list spells.

There are few ways to add new spells to your list. But a single level of cleric gives a few gems with touch; notably cause light wounds (which is better in some ways than bloodstorm) and ... lesser shivering touch, which even without metamagic is powerful as a full attack.
Also the 3 domains can be used to expand your base utilty. Travel is famous, but choices like wrath or strength net swift rhino's rush or enlarge person.
- Knowledge devotion can be used, even if you only max 1 thing. Every time you find a humanoid, or maybe a devil you have the max bonus.
Your int bonus alone would be worth +1 dam to the base +1 against everything else (without dice).
- In addition .. the skills.
- An arcane dip might work, but there are armor problems with casting.
- 1 level of Chameleon sounds far out, but cost a feat you'll use (and would make you want level 2).

Or .. Barbarian. Lion pounce biatch.
Opens Leap PA, KD, arcane channelling full attack, full move carnage.
That sounds fun. simple

Or take both. Now you're an enlarged, enraged, pouncing, rhino moving at +20 speed with arcane channelling. Scary.

* Ok, I'm done.
Edit: i didn't realize the limited knowledge of Opie. If you like study (spells) DB is fine, and my above advice stands. But if study is unfun, then spells might be unfun also.

[Zaq]

Power Attack Pros:
Scales (potentially) automatically.
One of the best returns on investment for melee damage.
Works even when not channeling.

Power Attack Cons:
You're usually making single attacks when you channel, and your channeled effect is often more important than your weapon damage roll. Making your channeled attack miss is bad.
Can make turns take longer if you have to recalculate on the fly every time. (Mitigate this by doing the math in advance for your commonly chosen PA amounts.)


Knowledge Devotion Pros:
Bonus to damage applies to whatever damage rolls you happen to make, so it affects both weapon damage AND spell damage. Potentially even double-dipping when channeling. I think.
One of the few feats that simultaneously boosts to-hit AND damage without spending a finite resource.

Knowledge Devotion Cons:
Even with INT-based casting, you need the physical stats as well, so your INT isn't going to be really crazy sky-high. You only have 2 + INT skill points, and you'll want to invest heavily into at least four or so Knowledge skills, possibly more. (Arcana, Nature, Planes, Local, Religion, Dungeoneering, and maybe Psionics? Roughly in that order?)
Investing heavily in Knowledges isn't bad if you want to be a Knowledge-monkey, but it also means that you can't really afford to invest as heavily in other potentially useful skills like Spellcraft, Concentration, etc.
Adds extra rolls to combat and can cause you to need to recalculate your basic attack numbers against each different enemy, slowing things down until everyone involved gets the hang of it.
Insight bonuses to hit and damage aren't super-common but also aren't entirely unique, so you might have to keep track of which other buffs overlap with KD's bonuses.

Obtain Familiar Pros:
Familiars are fun out of combat and open up some interesting roleplay and utility options.
Familiars share your skill ranks, so against any task where two individuals could potentially roll, you've basically doubled your chances of something good happening.

Obtain Familiar Cons:
If you aren't really good at protecting them and keeping them out of harm's way once the weapons come out, familiars are liable to die. That docks you XP and, even worse, means that any feats you invested in getting or improving a familiar are now blacked out for a really long time.
Duskblades don't have as good a skill base as Beguilers or Bards, so sharing skill ranks isn't quite as interesting on a Duskblade.
A vanilla familiar isn't really a huge asset, but you'd need to wait until at least level 6 before you could take Improved Familiar (or Celestial Familiar or any other "pick your familiar from this expanded list" feat) for one of the really weird and interesting ones. You know, like something that has hands. So you'd not only need to wait (dismissing a familiar carries the same penalties as the familiar dying, so you don't want to have a familiar when you actually get the next feat), you'd also be committing to spending more feats.
(Trap option alert: Your familiar shares your BAB and is therefore arguably better at hitting things than a regular Wizard's familiar would be. Don't do this. Keep your pet out of the fight in every way possible.)

Arcane Strike Pros:
Lets you turn slots into damage faster than just channeling.
Adds to both hit and damage.
Stacks with channeling.

Arcane Strike Cons:
YOU DON'T QUALIFY RIGHT NOW. You have to wait until you have 3rd level spells at the least, not to mention higher BAB than you have when you got your most recent feat slot. You can take it at 9th level if you stick with Duskblade.

You might also consider Netherese Battle Curse (Lost Empires of Faerun), which requires PA as a prereq and which kind of works like a debuff-focused Arcane Strike; downside to that is that it's CHA-based rather than INT-based (really, it should just use your casting stat, whatever that happens to be) for some reason. If you want to have access to more spells, you could look at Arcane Disciple in Complete Divine (gives you access to a domain, but requires WIS and also requires a deity) or at the various "bloodline" feats in Dragon Compendium (not to be confused with the bloodline feats in other books).

I agree with Randuir overall, though. Guidebooks are extremely helpful when playing a new class, but they aren't (and aren't intended to be) a substitute for reading the actual rules, understanding how the class's fundamental mechanics work, and figuring out what your actual goal is. Never take a feat (or any game element, really) without reading it and trying to understand why someone recommended it to you. If you don't personally understand the benefit, then you're not going to actually get that benefit.

[J-H]

Consider Brutal Strike (PHB2). Once per round when using Power Attack, you can force a Fort DC10+bonus damage from PA or the target is sickened for one round. It's a nice save-or-debuff that you can inflict all day long, and it works on pretty much any living foe. Even creatures with a high Fort save may still roll a 1. If you're up against something with a low AC, power attacking for -4/+8 makes it a Fort DC 18, which is better than any of the casters in your party can put out.

Travel Devotion is also nice. Once per day, for ten rounds in a row, you can move your speed as a swift action. At high levels, this lets you move and full attack; at lower levels, it's still extra mobility and can be used to set you up for a charge, bypass defenses, etc.

[bean illus]

Knowledge Devotion Pros:
Bonus to damage applies to whatever damage rolls you happen to make, so it affects both weapon damage AND spell damage. Potentially even double-dipping when channeling. I think.
One of the few feats that simultaneously boosts to-hit AND damage without spending a finite resource.

Knowledge Devotion Cons:
Even with INT-based casting, you need the physical stats as well, so your INT isn't going to be really crazy sky-high. You only have 2 + INT skill points, and you'll want to invest heavily into at least four or so Knowledge skills, possibly more. (Arcana, Nature, Planes, Local, Religion, Dungeoneering, and maybe Psionics? Roughly in that order?)
Investing heavily in Knowledges isn't bad if you want to be a Knowledge-monkey, but it also means that you can't really afford to invest as heavily in other potentially useful skills like Spellcraft, Concentration, etc.


Arcane Strike Pros:
Lets you turn slots into damage faster than just channeling.
Adds to both hit and damage.
Stacks with channeling.


Knowledge devotion works pretty good without maxing all 5. Partly because att AND dam, melee AND spell. Partly because the +1 base. Partly because skill items and int buffs work.
Rank 3, int +3, masterwork +2, foxes cunning +2 = +10 for minimal investment.
25% +1, 50% +2, 25% +3.
- KD stacks with PA, ... AND with arcane strike.

What sucks about arcane strike on DB is DB's low spell levels.