Class Features as Feats?

[Wasp]

Hi!

What class (or race) features do you think could work as feats without totally destroying the 5e system?

(For example: Would the Arcane Trickster Mage Hand Legerdemain work as a feat? What about XYZ?)

Or would that destroy the whole multiclassing/subclass system?

Cheers

Wasp

[Unoriginal]

Plenty of class features are feats, in reduced form.

Armor proficiency feats, Weapon Master, Magic Initiate, etc.

Others, like Tavern Brawler, give you alternative to class features (1d4 unarmed strike + bonus action grapple rather than the Monk's Martial Arts feature).

All in all, a single feat shouldn't give you more benefits than one level in another class.

[Blackbando]

A fighting style might work, perhaps. It would be nice for TWF to be less horrible on paladins and barbs, or valor bards.

I mean, it'd still be pretty horrible compared to other options, but it'd be less horrible.

[Trustypeaches]

I mean we have a few of those already: Martial Adept for example.

I could see something similar being done with Metamagic.

[nickl_2000]

Things that should easily work as a feat (or half feat)

-Fighting Style
-Eagle Totem Level 6
-Bardic Inspiration, once per day (like martial adept)
-1 Wildshape/day in forms CR 1/8 and lower
-Second Wind (mod for amount of HP regained)
-Deflect Missiles
-Ki, 2 per day, disengage, dodge or dash only.
-Lay on hands (slight mod for amount of HP healed)
-Favored Enemy
-Metamagic, 2 SP per day
-a feat for an invocation from a shortened list.
-The savant features from Wizard
-Detect Portal




Possible ones
-Channel Divinity?
-Improved Crit
-Monk/Barbarian Unarmored Defense
-1d6 Sneak attack
-1 arcane shot per day
-Dread Ambusher?

[Sahe]

It depends I think.

I would be very careful about Subclass features and would want a good rp explanation why the wizard is taking Mage Hand Legerdemain. Let's say they're an Urchin Wizard who got to learn magic by stealing a wizards spellbook, I would say yes, cause it would be quite thematic. If they're the courtly scion of a noble house...probably not. The reason for this is, that Subclass features are what distinguishes the Classes further.

Other more general features that multiple classes get access to, like Fighting Styles I would allow. Though it would also depend. For example no matter what I would never allow someone to take the Barbarian Capstone as a Feat for example. The lower level the Class Feature is and the more Classes have Access to it or similar features the more likely I would be to allow it.

I like the idea of giving weaker versions of Bardic Inspiration, Ki, Metamagic, etc. as Feats similar to Magic Initiate/Martial Adept. (On that note, I think Magic Initiate should have more synergy with Spellcasters, similar to Martial Adept...IE: the spells become class spells for you and you just get one more 1st Level Spell Slot).

[Willie the Duck]

Naturally, it will depend upon the threshold for "totally destroying the 5e system[.]" To clarify my own point, destroying in my mind would entail 'either making other player's characters irrelevant or massively disrupting the normal play of the game, either of which we require to occur even without DM collusion.*'
*Ex: 2e psionics destroys by massively disrupting the game, as everyone has to go to the rulebooks to figure out how psionic combat works again. 3e CoDzilla destroys by making 3e martial characters irrelevant. 3e Pun-Pun does not destroy because it requires the DM to conspire to ruin their own game. 5e Coffeelock sorta destroys, since it doesn't really overpower anything unless the DM lets it, but it is massively disruptive to gameplay, as the player now starts chiming in with 'and how many short rests can I get in during that downtime?' at every turn.

My general threshold is anything that solves a 'want of a nail' situation is probably too powerful (ex. 'my cleric uber-build would be totally devastating... except that you have to dip 5 levels into fighter or the like to get mult-attack'--well then multi-attack would probably be too powerful for a feat). Otherwise, things should be mostly fine. Provided, of course, that as house-rules, it is expected that the DM will nerf any insane odd little interactions of super-minute word combinations that create some kind of infinite damage loop or the like.

[Wasp]

Thank you very much for the feed back - that was all very interesting! I agree it's a balancing act!


I would be very careful about Subclass features and would want a good rp explanation why the wizard is taking Mage Hand Legerdemain. Let's say they're an Urchin Wizard who got to learn magic by stealing a wizards spellbook, I would say yes, cause it would be quite thematic. If they're the courtly scion of a noble house...probably not. The reason for this is, that Subclass features are what distinguishes the Classes further.

Yeah... Mage Hand Legerdemain was basically what inspired this post. I have this concept of a Bard spy and infiltrator, for whom it would be very cool to have the invisible Mage hand without investing in rogue levels that would be mainly just to get the hand (plus some more skills) :smallsmile:

[Vogie]

I could see it... A Lore Bard built as a Telekinetic, for example, would use their Additional Magical Secrets to grab things like Catapult and Cordon of Arrows, uses Cutting words & BI as Telekinetic assistance & interference, thus would love to have access to access to the mage hand enhancements without doing a 3 level dip.

However, it would really have to be mitigated on a feature by feature basis. Feats for:

Pact of the Tome? Sure, as it's basically Magic initiate, but with 3 cantrips instead of 2 cantrips and one 1st level spell.
Improved Critical? Hahaha No
Access to a Rage feature? It'd probably be 1/Long rest, so, sure.
Hunter's Prey? Very much no

An easy way to make the distinction, in non-power-level ways, would be if it requires other class features to work.

For example, a feat giving 2 ki points and the ki features would make sense.
A Feat giving the Open Hand technique (which alters Flurry of Blows) would not make sense.

The Legerdemain feat, in the OP's example, would not GIVE Mage hand (which is fine, because they have it as a bard), but rather just upgrades it. Picking up the feat without the spell would be as useful as grabbing GWM while not having proficiency with martial weapons.