Hypnotic pattern and phantasmal force are ineligible for malleable illusions?

[th3g0dc0mp13x]

So after last night's game I hit level 6 with my illusionist wizard. So I was reading malleable illusion, which includes the following line. "provided that you can see the illusion." So since for phantasmal force the illusion is in their head only, and hypnotic pattern the image is only there for a split second this means that neither are eligible.

Am I missing anything, because I've seen a lot of people talk about it as if it did impact those spells.

[jiriku]

I would agree with your reading. Although hypnotic pattern wouldn't work with Malleable Illusions anyway because (a) the illusion appears only for an instant, and (b) the illusion's "normal parameters" don't offer you any choice about the appearance of the illusion, so there's nothing for Malleable Illusions to work with.

The star players for Malleable Illusions are major image (when cast from a 6th level slot), mirage arcane, and programmed illusion, so there's still plenty of reason to love the feature. Those reasons are just primarily only available in higher-level campaigns.

[Tanarii]

I would agree with your reading. Although hypnotic pattern wouldn't work with Malleable Illusions anyway because (a) the illusion appears only for an instant, and (b) the illusion's "normal parameters" don't offer you any choice about the appearance of the illusion, so there's nothing for Malleable Illusions to work with.

If it was lasting and visible, and thus worked with Malleable Illusions, you could move the 30ft cube containing the illusion anywhere you wanted within range, since Malleable Illusions allows you to do anything you want with illusion with the parameters.

[Trustypeaches]

I believe the Phantasmal Force illusion is completely out of the caster's control.

It's bases itself off of the fears of the victim, and isn't even visible to anyone else besides the target.

Hypnotic Pattern is only a brief flash of illusory light. On a side note, why the hell isn't that spell enchantment?

[Dalebert]

Other fun ones for M.I...
Illusory Script: forge any document you need in an instant.
Magic Mouth: have what is essentially a magic item--an object that can carry on elaborate conversations at your whim.
Creation: It starts off as a convenient wooden bracelet but becomes whatever you want all day long: a chest, a wooden throne, a big block of wood blocking a corridor, etc.
Project Image: you essentially astrally project into the material plane and can teleport it anywhere you've ever been within 500 miles. Put it up in the sky. Teleport it as far as you can see onto the horizon. Rinse and repeat as needed.

[MaxWilson]

I would agree with your reading. Although hypnotic pattern wouldn't work with Malleable Illusions anyway because (a) the illusion appears only for an instant, and (b) the illusion's "normal parameters" don't offer you any choice about the appearance of the illusion, so there's nothing for Malleable Illusions to work with.

The star players for Malleable Illusions are major image (when cast from a 6th level slot), mirage arcane, and programmed illusion, so there's still plenty of reason to love the feature. Those reasons are just primarily only available in higher-level campaigns.

And Disguise Self.

[sophontteks]

The change to the illusion still must fit within the confines of the spell. Hypnotic pattern creates a hypnotic pattern of lights. That is the only legal thing that illusion can be. You can't change it into something the spell never allowed you to do in the first place.

And yeah you can't mallable phantasmal illusion. The illusion is a creation of the target, not you. This is beneficial though. You can create things the target knows even if you don't. For example, create a phantasm of the target's child and the target will rationalize the phantam as their child, even if you don't know what that child looks like.

[NaughtyTiger]

And Disguise Self.

duh. i can't believe i hadn't thought of that. basically the warlock's invocation

[Trustypeaches]

duh. i can't believe i hadn't thought of that. basically the warlock's invocationSort of. You'll still be spending more spell slots on Disguise Self than a Warlock since it only lasts an hour.

[Dalebert]

Or seeming! Lasts 8 hours and affects the whole party. It's better than the invocation at that point. Great for your undead minions.

[sophontteks]

Warlock invocations allow them to cast disguise self at will.
If you are using malleable illusions, you are not casting a spell, you are changing a spell you had cast previously.
Basically a wizard using malleable on an illusion like disguise self can mimic the effects of subtle spell.

[MaxWilson]

duh. i can't believe i hadn't thought of that. basically the warlock's invocation

Only, without spell components because unlike the warlock you're not actually casting a spell! :)

In theory you could try disguising yourself as a Medusa or a Bodak in order to encourage "smart" enemies to look away from you to avoid petrification/death. If it works, it has the same effects as no-concentration invisibility.