My AL character is overshadowing the party: What to do?

[Grear Bylls]

Hey all!

So, I recently finished up one of my last Tier 2 sessions with one of my Adventurers League characters, a 3rd level Battlemaster, 7th level Abjurer, Human. This character has been ABSURDLY powerful (almost single-handedly killing a 5 headed hydra, taking 10 points of damage), and has basically carried every party he's been with. He'd been traveling with a group in Barovia, and had been mainly casting Fireball and Haste to take out large groups of BBEGs. He just left the Demiplane of Dread, and shortly after returning to the real world, went to clear out an elemental based dungeon. We (the party) fought 4 black puddings, 6 Humans with abilities (probably Cult fanatics or bandits), two spell casting snakes, 4 water elementals, a high level Mage, two water weirds, and an aforementioned hydra, all without rest. The majority of our five man army was level 6 (average), and I was 10. Most of the group was upset by how effective my character was, and told me so after the session. The DM (who was my first one ever, and one of my favorites), has told me my character has achieved his goal in his world: to be well known. However, the DM has stated ALL MONSTERS WILL NOW BE FOCUS FIRING ME, from hearing about the rumors of Cloak Ardragon Vonvidüre Fredrick van Strauss. Him and the other players have expressed distaste for my min-maxed character, and say it is reducing their fun. I'm not trying to do this intentionally, and see their point (very clearly I might add). I number crunched the numbers on my character and it turns out his nova AND Average damage is TWICE that of a comparable level Fighter with more common equipment, with my AC being an effective 4 points higher in addition to similar HP.

My build is the previously mentioned BM 3/Abjurer 7. I'm a V human w/ GWM who started fighter (for obvious reasons). I've since picked up Find Familiar, the mobile feat, a one minute atunement Ring of Spell Storing, Gauntlets of Ogre power, and a Flametongue Greatsword (a gift from the epic PeteNutButter). I have a typical entourage of an Owl, Found Warhorse (Find Steed), and 4 Zombies. My familiar uses the Ring to give me Haste and proceeds to fly away, and I go in Hammer away with Action Surge, Haste, Booming Blade, GWM power attack, and the occcasional bonus action attack. My GWF ability is incredibly brutal as i have so many dice. To contrast my martial prowess, I'm still a full caster, decked out in favorites like Shield, Absorb Elements, Misty Step, Fireball, Counterspell, Haste, Banishment, and Wall of Fire.

All in all, I sympathize with the players, but I'm not sure what to do. I've designed my character to be BRUTAL in combat, which has the side effect of over shadowing other players. What do you guys think I should do?

[Trustypeaches]

I'd try to find some kind of compromise if this is a character you really want to play.

If you care more about being effective in combat than anything else, you might want to find a group more in line with your interests.

[Ganymede]

"It hurts when I do this."

Well then don't do that. You don't need us to give you permission to stop doing the thing that is disrupting your games.

[Tiadoppler]

You're playing a combat-focused character who's four levels higher than the rest of the party, and has a large number of specific magical items that the other PCs don't have.

Your gaming group is suffering because your character is not an appropriate one for their game.

Change your character.

The fact that you want to play one specific character is irrelevant if it upsets the rest of your group, especially if they get the point of not asking you back to the table.

[ImproperJustice]

I guese you’ll just have to find a way to not be so awesome.

I can relate, I often have the same problem blinding people with my sheer mastery of the game. I usually hand out shades to everyone before a game session.

My suggestion would be to adopt a “Clark Kent” Strategy and play the next few sessions as a bumbling fighter.
If it looks like things are gonna go south, just bust out the S on your chest, fly around real fast and save everybody :)

[Jophiel]

Isn't this problem solving itself soon? You're nearly level 11 and will start playing Tier III. They're level six or seven and play Tier II.

[Merudo]

You are almost out of Tier 2.

Of course you are more powerful than the rest of the party - that's what to be expected when you are almost out of a Tier.

You are literally a few sessions away from Tier 3, in which case you'll move on to be one of the weakest members of your next AL party.

It's a non-issue. Just be careful to avoid being killed by a resentful DM before you get to Tier 3.

[Nidgit]

The obvious answer is to play with more level-appropriate characters. You're a combat-optimized character four levels above the rest, OF COURSE you're going to show them all up.

Short of that, though, you can either focus on boosting the other party members with Haste and the like or showcase your weaknesses in other aspects of the game. Don't fail on purpose, but sometimes put yourself in a position you're not well-suited for. Attempt some Deception or Insight checks (or whatever your average & non-proficient skills are).

[Unoriginal]

You're not powerful because you're minmaxed, you're powerful because you're four level higher than the party's average, with a squad of undead and powerful magic items, in a dungeon that's a challenge for lower level characters.

Also I have no idea how you have enough spell slots to do all those things without running out. And how many feats do you have?

And how the hell would you have similar HPs to a lvl 10 Fighter? You should have 10+(2*6)+(7*4)+(10*CON mod). It means 50 HPs before the CON mod. A full Fighter would have 64 before the CON mod. And given that your character only had one AsI over 10 levels (from your 4rth Wizard level), I doubt you can match the CON of a full Fighter.

Which leads to to ask you what your stats are. Could you post them, please?

[jdolch]

The majority of our five man army was level 6 (average), and I was 10.

Well, maybe we should call in Sherlock Holmes. That is quite the mystery, you have on your hands there, as to why you are so much stronger than everybody else. /sarcasm

I am not familiar with how exactly AL works, but having people in a Party that are that far apart in levels is ridiculous. Especially in Tier2. It's pretty clear that that character doesn't belong in that group. There is nothing really more to say about this. If you (meaning the group) still insist on playing with characters of wildly different levels then you'll have massive imbalances. That's just how it is.

[zinycor]

The majority of our five man army was level 6 (average), and I was 10.

Here is the problem. Why are you level 10? That is absolutely ridiculous.

[chando]

Don't solve every encounter single-handed? Cast Haste on the party Paladin/Barbarian/Ranger/Cleric/Rogue? A rogue can attack with its haste action, ready an attack as its normal action to attack off turn with all his SA. Use your ward to protect your friends? Sure your atack is awesome, but give them a chance to shine too. Use more buffing and control option to make things esier for the lower level players, like a sort of mentor...

otherwise yeah, what everyone has being saing, if your 4 levels higher than everybody you are going to overshadow the rest if you dont play with that in mind.

[Sigreid]

With the others here, either find a table with matching level characters or talk to the players and DM about skipping a few weeks to let them catch up.

[Wildarm]

Golden Rule of D&D is that everyone should have fun. I would ask the DM if you can create a same level character to play with. Go for something completely different from your current character.

Level 10 anything playing with a Level 6 group is going to outshine them. Bust out your 10 Level character again when the group hits level 10 as well.

[darknite]

You'll be playing Tier 3 soon enough...

In any case I've found challenges in AL to be highly dependent on a good DM. One that can evaluate a party and put together a good challenge on the fly. They're out there, but many just blindly follow the module/HC balance guidance, which is often on the softball side. I recently saw a new difficulty tier in a CCC mod called DEADLY (and yeah, it's tough), which is awesome!

[Grear Bylls]

Also I have no idea how you have enough spell slots to do all those things without running out. And how many feats do you have?

And how the hell would you have similar HPs to a lvl 10 Fighter? You should have 10+(2*6)+(7*4)+(10*CON mod). It means 50 HPs before the CON mod. A full Fighter would have 64 before the CON mod. And given that your character only had one AsI over 10 levels (from your 4rth Wizard level), I doubt you can match the CON of a full Fighter.

Which leads to to ask you what your stats are. Could you post them, please?

I started the dungeon with 4 1st level slots, 3 2nd, 2 3rd, and 1 4th (I had previously cast Animate Dead). I additionally had a Haste in my Ring, and a spell scroll of Haste, allowing me to recharge my ring after combat.

Sure. 19 Str (Gauntlets), 13 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Int, 11 Wis, 12 Cha. Feats are GWM and Mobile. Looking at Resilient: Wisdom with next ASI.

My BASE hp was only 70, but I had my Arcane Ward of 19 HP, which would recharge during battle. My AC was ALSO an effective 25 (plate, Haste, Shield), and I had absorb elements ready for anything elemental. Our party Fighter had 105 HP (he was Level 9) and the party Paladin had 52 (but he had Armor of Invulnerability)

[Malifice]

Hey all!

So, I recently finished up one of my last Tier 2 sessions with one of my Adventurers League characters, a 3rd level Battlemaster, 7th level Abjurer, Human. This character has been ABSURDLY powerful (almost single-handedly killing a 5 headed hydra, taking 10 points of damage), and has basically carried every party he's been with. He'd been traveling with a group in Barovia, and had been mainly casting Fireball and Haste to take out large groups of BBEGs. He just left the Demiplane of Dread, and shortly after returning to the real world, went to clear out an elemental based dungeon. We (the party) fought 4 black puddings, 6 Humans with abilities (probably Cult fanatics or bandits), two spell casting snakes, 4 water elementals, a high level Mage, two water weirds, and an aforementioned hydra, all without rest. The majority of our five man army was level 6 (average), and I was 10. Most of the group was upset by how effective my character was, and told me so after the session. The DM (who was my first one ever, and one of my favorites), has told me my character has achieved his goal in his world: to be well known. However, the DM has stated ALL MONSTERS WILL NOW BE FOCUS FIRING ME, from hearing about the rumors of Cloak Ardragon Vonvidüre Fredrick van Strauss. Him and the other players have expressed distaste for my min-maxed character, and say it is reducing their fun. I'm not trying to do this intentionally, and see their point (very clearly I might add). I number crunched the numbers on my character and it turns out his nova AND Average damage is TWICE that of a comparable level Fighter with more common equipment, with my AC being an effective 4 points higher in addition to similar HP.

My build is the previously mentioned BM 3/Abjurer 7. I'm a V human w/ GWM who started fighter (for obvious reasons). I've since picked up Find Familiar, the mobile feat, a one minute atunement Ring of Spell Storing, Gauntlets of Ogre power, and a Flametongue Greatsword (a gift from the epic PeteNutButter). I have a typical entourage of an Owl, Found Warhorse (Fund Steed), and 4 Zombies. My familiar uses the Ring to give me Haste and proceeds to wly away, and I go in Hammer away with Action Surge, Haste, Booming Blade, GWM power attack, and the occcasional bonus action attack. My GWF ability is incredibly brutal as i have so many dice. To contrast my martial prowess, I'm still a bear full caster, decked out in favorites like Shield, Absorb Elements, Misty Step, Fireball, Counterspell, Haste, Banishment, and Wall of Fire.

All in all, I sympathize with the players, but I'm not sure what to do. I've designed my character to be BRUTAL in combat, which has the side effect of over shadowing other players. What do you guys think I should do?

Firstly, nice brag post. I see what you did there.

Secondly, you dont re-roll your cantrip 1's and 2's with GWS. Only the weapon damage dice.

Thirdly, youre (on average) 5 levels higher than the rest of the party and no doubt tooled up with far more potent magic items than they are. What did you think would happen?

Lastly, get a new DM.

[PeteNutButter]

This is why most of my characters are tanks. No one even notices how optimized they are until we hit those deadly fights that wipe the party. At that point, they're just grateful my tanky ass can salvage the fight and save them.

Even so, I'm reluctant to bring my best ones to the table unless I know the DM is really good at adjusting the mod. Too many cakewalks ruins the game. A good DM would be adjusting the encounters slightly to add difficulty. Toss in a CR 6 "Mage" here or there where appropriate and have them counterspell you.

"23 Hit you."
"Shield!"
"Counterspell."

That combined with some save effects would be nasty on you.

If I were DMing your table, I'd totally murder your haste concentrating familiar (My NPC mages should be able to arcana that haste he cast and know whats up). That loses you a turn. Then I'd slap a Hold Person on you while you "can't take actions" to counterspell. If the other players are frustrated by your character. It'd please them to see you aren't invulnerable.

To that end, play a little riskier. Try and go down next session. Don't put the party in jeopardy, just make it so you can go down and they get a chance to shine. It's a team game. Sometimes you got to let the others show off.

It might help if you give the others time to catch up in levels, but it probably won't. My fighter 1/abjurer x was also rather overpowered. Wisdom saves were my downfall though. That and long long adventuring days.

[Edenbeast]

What do you guys think I should do?

Maybe the first person to ask this to, is your DM. Other posters here have given some valuable feedback already. You are 4 levels higher than the rest, it does not come as a surprise that you steal the show. I don't get how you can call this being "unintentionally..."

When I read the title I was expecting a highly optimised character outshining other being equal level but not optimised. Anyway... 4 levels higher is just absurd. How did you come to have more levels than the rest? I also wonder what your DM was thinking when he allowed it in the first place.

Do not go with DM's words that he will just focus fire on you from now. It's not the solution, it will just cause enmity between him and you, and put the other players even more on the side line. No one will be having fun. I can give you my advice in the case that I were your DM. I'd give you two options: either reduce your current character's level until it has the same as the rest of the group, or (if you don't like the first option) build a new character at the group's average level.

[Grear Bylls]

Firstly, nice brag post. I see what you did there.

Secondly, you dont re-roll your cantrip 1's and 2's with GWS. Only the weapon damage dice.

Thirdly, youre (on average) 5 levels higher than the rest of the party and no doubt tooled up with far more potent magic items than they are. What did you think would happen?

Lastly, get a new DM.

Bragging wasn't the intent, but I can as how it came off that way. My bad. However, I will note that the build isn't entirely mine (I've had the help of lots of Google and one experienced multiclasser who may or may not be on the thread), and I was trying to emphasize how effective the build is, not my "obviously superior optimization prowess"

Thank you for pointing that out. I was doing that. Probably should stop from now on. (Can you reroll Flametongue dice though?)

Touché

I'll probably drop from his AL game for a bit, but he's still a good DM, just a little fed up with my BS

[Grear Bylls]

Maybe the first person to ask this to, is your DM. Other posters here have given some valuable feedback already. You are 4 levels higher than the rest, it does not come as a surprise that you steal the show. I don't get how you can call this being "unintentionally..."

When I read the title I was expecting a highly optimised character outshining other being equal level but not optimised. Anyway... 4 levels higher is just absurd. How did you come to have more levels than the rest? I also wonder what your DM was thinking when he allowed it in the first place.

Do not go with DM's words that he will just focus fire on you from now. It's not the solution, it will just cause enmity between him and you, and put the other players even more on the side line. No one will be having fun. I can give you my advice in the case that I were your DM. I'd give you two options: either reduce your current character's level until it has the same as the rest of the group, or (if you don't like the first option) build a new character at the group's average level.

Unfortunately, it's AL and you can't really just cook up a character at whatever level you want, or drop your level. Also, in AL, parties are made up of adventurers of different levels quite frequently, as it's a "drop in, drop out" D&D. This character has been in Tier 2 for longer than the rest of the group, playing with different groups and DMs all the while. I've previously been with other groups made up of 5-6 players with characters leveled 5-6, while I was 9, and hadn't really stuck out then.

[Aimeryan]

The majority of our five man army was level 6 (average), and I was 10


Our party Fighter had 105 HP (he was Level 9)

So, five of you, average party level of 6 = ~30 levels total in the party:

~30 - 10 (you) - 9 (Fighter) = ~11 left

~11/3 = ~4

So your other three party members are about level 4 and you are level 10? I think I see the problem. However, this couldn't then be T2.

~~~

Possibly you meant the other five were about level 6 average (so six of you total, but you not being included in the average):

~30 - 9 (Fighter) = ~21 left

~21/4 = ~5

Still a difference of five levels between you and most of the party.

~~~

Possibly you meant there are five of you total and the other four are an average of level 6 (24 levels total):

~24 - 9 (Fighter) = ~15 left

~15/3 = ~5

Same as before pretty much. That is a large difference.

[Keravath]

This is NOT an issue with your character per se.

This is an issue with Tier2 AL and 7th level spell casting. There is a four level gap between you and your team mates. You are almost tier3 and they have just entered tier2. So there is bound to be a power discrepancy.

I have a level 8 lore bard/2 hexblade sorcerer in AL which is a lot of fun to play. However, the last adventure I played we had 5 players level 5-6, one 7 and my level 10. The party was 2 rogues, a ranger, a druid, 2 fighters and my character. Between strategic casting of fireball/hypnotic pattern and other control and debuff spells my character made the entire adventure easier for everyone else. The power level difference was only really visible when I cast a couple of fireballs but there was a substantial gap in capability between the level 10 and the level 6s (At level 8 bard I have 2 ASIs and 20 cha for a spell DC of 17 ... I also have an instrument of the bards from playing White Plume Mountain in ToYP in a previous season which will grant disadvantage on saves vs hypnotic pattern). For direct damage I could just use hex+eldritch blast and was doing decent but not overwhelming damage).

The DM adjusted the formations used by attackers to minimize my AoE options and the imbalance was less obvious.

The level 7 druid cast polymorph at one point turning into a very effective huge beast. I cast polymorph at one point turning the big bad guy at the end into a bunny which I then put in my backpack for later disposal at the end of the encounter. Polymorph is a level 4 spell requiring level 7 spell casting. Banishment can have a similar effect at the right time.

I also think the DMs reaction to focus attention on you is over doing it. I think they will do that naturally once they realize how effective you are. Plus the fact that you keep running away after hitting :)

Finally, although it can be risky, it is up to the DM to scale the encounter up to the appropriate challenge level for the group. If that means adding a couple of creatures just because of your build then they can certainly do that :)

I think the big reason for the more OP feel to the build is the Flame tongue greatsword. A typical hit would be doing 4d6 + d8 if combined with booming blade and then potentially another 4d6 on the haste attack.


------------------

However ...

I also have a few questions about the rules you are using ...

1) GWF only affects the weapon dice .. which works very well for a flametongue greatsword .. but won't allow rerolls for rider damage like hex/smite or booming blade.

2) You mention that the Flame Tongue Greatsword was a "gift" ... I assume you mean he traded you the sword for something much less useful? You can't GIVE anything in AL, you can only trade and in this case a FT Greatsword is a rare and needs a rare in exchange. If you traded in season 8, the trade also has to be from the same table in the DMG.

3) Find Steed is not on the wizard spell list so I don't know how you are casting it.

4) Your DM is being generous allowing 2 int owl familiar to actually use a ring of spell storing but RAW there doesn't seem to be anything preventing it. :)

5) I'm not sure how you have four zombies following you around. Each one requires a 3rd level spell slot (or a 4th level one for two of them) cast every 24 hours. You also need a corpse or a collection of bones for each one. If your AL DM allows you to pre-cast these before starting a module ... I'd say he is doing it incorrectly. Usually, when I play AL, you start the gaming day without spells that might have been cast in a previous module. On the other hand, maybe you are using all of your 3rd and 4th level spells at the beginning of the module and happen to have a bag of holding with the corpses? Either way, a pack of zombies isn't a given. (Also, without your 3rd and 4th level slots you can't cast wall of fire or banishment.)
[EDIT: Ooops .. my mistake .. Animate dead can reassert control over up to 4 undead per casting. However, I probably still wouldn't let a player start a module with a pack of undead following them around ... besides everything else they would need to be factored into the APL for the adventure.]

6) I assume that your AC is effectively four points higher due to the shield spell? Haste adds 2. You mentioned heavy armor so that would be a base 18 without a shield.

7) I assume you found the gauntlets of ogre power in tier 1 so you could rebuild :) though I think you would have been better off with a 12 or 10 in wis instead of
str 9, dex 13, con 14, int 16, wis 11, cha 12
as your starting stats (though you do need the 13 dex to multiclass) ...the extra 1 in str doesn't do much and you could have had either 12 wis or a 14 dex if dropping str to 8 and wis to 10 :)

8) Arcane ward is 17 not 19 but that was probably a typo (2x wiz level + int mod)

[Unoriginal]

and I was trying to emphasize how effective the build is

The build isn't particularly effective, though. Being 4 level higher than the rest and having several powerful magic items is what make it effective.

[Grear Bylls]

1) GWF only affects the weapon dice .. which works very well for a flametongue greatsword .. but won't allow rerolls for rider damage like hex/smite or booming blade.

2) You mention that the Flame Tongue Greatsword was a "gift" ... I assume you mean he traded you the sword for something much less useful? You can't GIVE anything in AL, you can only trade and in this case a FT Greatsword is a rare and needs a rare in exchange. If you traded in season 8, the trade also has to be from the same table in the DMG.

3) Find Steed is not on the wizard spell list so I don't know how you are casting it.

4) Your DM is being generous allowing 2 int owl familiar to actually use a ring of spell storing but RAW there doesn't seem to be anything preventing it. :)

5) I'm not sure how you have four zombies following you around. Each one requires a 3rd level spell slot (or a 4th level one for two of them) cast every 24 hours. You also need a corpse or a collection of bones for each one. If your AL DM allows you to pre-cast these before starting a module ... I'd say he is doing it incorrectly. Usually, when I play AL, you start the gaming day without spells that might have been cast in a previous module. On the other hand, maybe you are using all of your 3rd and 4th level spells at the beginning of the module and happen to have a bag of holding with the corpses? Either way, a pack of zombies isn't a given. (Also, without your 3rd and 4th level slots you can't cast wall of fire or banishment.)

6) I assume that your AC is effectively four points higher due to the shield spell? I don't really see any other AC boosts in the build unless you have some magic armor? One of the real benefits of the abjuration wizard is the Arcane Ward feature that is likely giving you 17 temp hit points to start with though you will have to cast an abduration spell at the start of the module to create the ward. I am guessing a dex build with medium armor (maybe a high elf for dex,int and the extra cantrip)? Which gives an AC of 17 wearing half-plate without a shield since you are using a two handed weapon?

1: Yeah, I'd been rerolling the 1s and 2s for BB. I'm going to stop next session.

2: It was a trade offered to me by Pete. Poor word choice on my part. I do feel it was a gift though as he approached me with it and was incredibly generous.

3: One Downtime to get the Paladin to cast into my Ring, which I then cast.

4: He's going off the AL rules of "yes, it can use the item, but it costs you your atunement"

5: The Zombies have been hold overs from other adventurers, and me starting with four is because of Animate Dead being able to reassert control over 4.

6: Human who started Fighter for heavy armor (plate), and 19 Str (Gauntlets of Ogre Power), Haste (+2), + Shield spell (+5

[Malifice]

Thank you for pointing that out. I was doing that. Probably should stop from now on. (Can you reroll Flametongue dice though?)

Nope. Weapon dice (the greatswords 2d6) not extra dice from any other source UNLESS they're specifically called out as extra weapon dice (i.e. BM superiority die).

And again, it's not the 'build' thats busted; its the fact youre twice the level of the other PCs in the party (a whole tier ahead of them when you factor in magic items as well).

And your DM kind of sucks.

[Grear Bylls]

Nope. Weapon dice (the greatswords 2d6) not extra dice from any other source UNLESS they're specifically called out as extra weapon dice (i.e. BM superiority die).

And again, it's not the 'build' thats busted; its the fact youre twice the level of the other PCs in the party (a whole tier ahead of them when you factor in magic items as well).

And your DM kind of sucks.

But the Flametongue does explicitly state that "...the sword...deals an extra 2d6 fire damage to any target it hits".

[Keravath]

Nope. Weapon dice (the greatswords 2d6) not extra dice from any other source UNLESS they're specifically called out as extra weapon dice (i.e. BM superiority die).

And again, it's not the 'build' thats busted; its the fact youre twice the level of the other PCs in the party (a whole tier ahead of them when you factor in magic items as well).

And your DM kind of sucks.

Actually, the fire damage from a flametongue would appear to be part of the weapon damage and thus eligible for GWF.

The text in DMG:

"While the sword is ablaze, it deals an extra 2d6 fire damage to any target it hits."

The weapon is specifically doing the additional damage and as such it is weapon damage and not damage from another spell or effect and should be affected by GWF.

P.S. I'd agree with the rest ... being level 10 with a load of powerful magic items will put you out in front of most if not all level 6 characters. On the other hand, there are a lot of level 10 builds with comparable magic items that will do better than this one in terms of damage. This build has quite a bit of flexibility from the seven levels of wizard though.

[Keravath]

One more comment ... as for future games ... I don't think I would worry about it too much. You have AT MOST one more session at tier 2 unless you are using slow progression.

A four hour adventure at tier 2 will give you 4 adventure check points and if you had just turned level 10 you will only need four more to be level 11. If you were already half way through 10th level, then you are now 11th and the problem won't come up again.

[PeteNutButter]

People need to stop pretending things are explicit in the rules when they are not.

The Fighting style RAW affects all damage dice done by the attack. There is a sage advice that says the intent was not to let it affect riders, such as smite.

The text in its entirety:
"When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an Attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the Two-Handed or Versatile property for you to gain this benefit."

RAW it affects everything that is delivered through a melee attack wielded with two hands (that has the two-handed or versatile property). Most DMs follow the sage advice, since paladins don't need a buff. I'd say most DMs would allow the the damage dice from FT to work as well.

The only real answer is: "Ask your DM."

EDIT: Just checked the most updated errata. There is no mention of the fighting style. They should really have fixed that for clarity if it was the intent...

[jdolch]

Just to clarify:


Most DMs follow the sage advice, since paladins don't need a buff. I'd say most DMs would allow the the damage dice from FT to work as well.

I thought the Sage Advice said:


There is a sage advice that says the intent was not to let it affect riders, such as smite.

So do you mean: "I'd say most DMs would NOT allow the the damage dice from FT to work as well."?

I am confused. If riders don't count, and FT is a rider then ....

[PeteNutButter]

Just to clarify:

I thought the Sage Advice said:

So do you mean: "I'd say most DMs would NOT allow the the damage dice from FT to work as well."?

I am confused. If riders don't count, and FT is a rider then ....

The "sage advice" in question is a 2016 Rules answer:

CLASS FEATURES
If you use Great Weapon Fighting with a feature like Divine Smite or a spell like hex, do you get to reroll any 1 or 2 you roll for the extra damage? The Great Weapon Fighting feature—which is shared by fighters and paladins—is meant to benefit only the damage roll of the weapon used with the feature. For example, if you use a greatsword with the feature, you can reroll any 1 or 2 you roll on the weapon’s 2d6. If you’re a paladin and use Divine Smite with the greatsword, Great Weapon Fighting doesn’t let you reroll a 1 or 2 that you roll for the damage of Divine Smite.

The main purpose of this limitation is to prevent the tedium of excessive rerolls. Many of the limits in the game are aimed at inhibiting slowdowns. Having no limit would also leave the door open for Great Weapon Fighting to grant more of a damage boost than we intended, although the potential for that is minimal compared to the likelihood that numerous rerolls would bog the game down.

It says the intent is to only roll the weapon damage dice. I can't really say what most DMs would do; I'm just speculating on my anecdotal experience. To me at least, there is a good case to be made that the FT damage dice are part of the weapon damage dice so should work even with the rules answer in question.

They really should have fit this into the erratta. I hate having multiple versions of obvious rules at various tables.

[darknite]

As a DM I only allow dice attributable to the weapon benefit from GWF. That can be any elemental dice or similar damage provided by the weapon itself. However bonus dice attributed from outside sources, like Smite, are not.

[Blood of Gaea]

Use your spell slots on your allies, not yourself. This is the same way optimized spellcasters can make the entire party love them instead of resenting them. Use that casting of haste on a friend, save the wall of fire for when the party is being flanked in a deadly situation.

And more importantly, hold yourself back a bit, imagine yourself as a mentor proudly watching over his disciples. They need experiences of their own, holding their hands through thick and thin isn't what they need, what they need is your guidance.

Try not turning on your flametongue or activating your blade cantrip unless worthy opponent appears or the situation is dire.

And of course, explain all of this to your party before the game starts.

[Grear Bylls]

Use your spell slots on your allies, not yourself. This is the same way optimized spellcasters can make the entire party love them instead of resenting them. Use that casting of haste on a friend, save the wall of fire for when the party is being flanked in a deadly situation.

And more importantly, hold yourself back a bit, imagine yourself as a mentor proudly watching over his disciples. They need experiences of their own, holding their hands through thick and thin isn't what they need, what they need is your guidance.

Try not turning on your flametongue or activating your blade cantrip unless worthy opponent appears or the situation is dire.

And of course, explain all of this to your party before the game starts.

I think I'll try and do this. However, I do have a question: wouldn't it be more effective to give the party member with the strongest (singular) attack many attacks so that the most possible damage is dealt? I have built this character to basically act like a fighter (I have about 3 attacks per round with Haste, Action, Action Surge, and bonus action attacks). Would you think the DM would have a problem with a straight battle master with GWM and a Flametongue? Or is it the power that's afforded through spell casting?

[Guy Lombard-O]

I think I'll try and do this. However, I do have a question: wouldn't it be more effective to give the party member with the strongest (singular) attack many attacks so that the most possible damage is dealt?

Yes. For sure.

But I think what everyone is trying to point out is that your party doesn't need you to do the "more effective" thing. By your own account, your character is totally killing it, and leaving everyone else at the table bored and unhappy. Just because you (apparently) can wipe the module floor with the monsters presented, it doesn't mean that you should. It doesn't make for a good game for anyone.

So maybe only do this when it really seems necessary, so the other players at the table will thank you for it, instead of disliking your presence and wishing you'd go away?

Good luck!

[Tanarii]

My build is the previously mentioned BM 3/Abjurer 7. I'm a V human w/ GWM who started fighter (for obvious reasons). I've since picked up Find Familiar, the mobile feat, a one minute atunement Ring of Spell Storing, Gauntlets of Ogre power, and a Flametongue Greatsword (a gift from the epic PeteNutButter). I have a typical entourage of an Owl, Found Warhorse (Find Steed), and 4 Zombies. My familiar uses the Ring to give me Haste and proceeds to fly away, and I go in Hammer away with Action Surge, Haste, Booming Blade, GWM power attack, and the occcasional bonus action attack. My GWF ability is incredibly brutal as i have so many dice. To contrast my martial prowess, I'm still a full caster, decked out in favorites like Shield, Absorb Elements, Misty Step, Fireball, Counterspell, Haste, Banishment, and Wall of Fire.
Contrary to others, I'm going to say your problem has nothing to do with a four level gap. I run Tier 2 constantly and it's not a huge problem to have level 5s with level 10s provided they understand the rough power difference.

It has to do with all this cheese. If the other players aren't sifting through RAW and getting online help looking for obvious abuses of it (owl familiar using haste on you from a ring of spell storing, find steed from ring of spell storing fighting as an independent ally under your control) then of course they're going to feel majorly outclassed.

[KorvinStarmast]

You are almost out of Tier 2. Of course you are more powerful than the rest of the party - that's what to be expected when you are almost out of a Tier. You are literally a few sessions away from Tier 3, in which case you'll move on to be one of the weakest members of your next AL party. It's a non-issue. Just be careful to avoid being killed by a resentful DM before you get to Tier 3. Good advice.


Firstly, nice brag post. I see what you did there. Secondly, you dont re-roll your cantrip 1's and 2's with GWS. Only the weapon damage dice.
Lastly, get a new DM. The colored part isn't as easy as it sounds.
Actually, the fire damage from a flametongue would appear to be part of the weapon damage and thus eligible for GWF.
"While the sword is ablaze, it deals an extra 2d6 fire damage to any target it hits."
Correct.

As a DM I only allow dice attributable to the weapon benefit from GWF. That can be any elemental dice or similar damage provided by the weapon itself. I'm with you.
Use your spell slots on your allies, not yourself. The OP appears to not understand this "play as a team" concept, but I hope the answers have helped point the way towards that.

In the OP's defense, AL is to a certain extent an achievement oriented mode of play, such that any player is trying to get all ready for the next tier of play ...

[Grear Bylls]

The OP appears to not understand this "play as a team" concept, but I hope the answers have helped point the way towards that.

In the OP's defense, AL is to a certain extent an achievement oriented mode of play, such that any player is trying to get all ready for the next tier of play ...

I understand the concept, and have a tier 1 character planned out to where his whole objective is to be able to help the party (Faerie Fire, Sleep, Help action). However, this character I currently play is more effective when the resources go to him. I can play him to where I buff allies, which is my plan for my final tier two session, but it wouldn't be as effective. As mentioned above, the goal in AL is to stay alive and accomplish the goal. If I can do tons of damage, I accomplish the goal, but no one has fun. If I assist the party and focus on them, they have fun, but we may not accomplish the goal. I'll try and spike a balance.

One more note: I don't want to be "that guy" and say this, BUT... the character I'm playing is a lawful evil character, and I don't see any in character reason for him not to focus on himself. That doesn't mean I'm not going to start buffing my allies (I will), but it doesn't make much sense IMO.

[KorvinStarmast]

I understand the concept, and have a tier 1 character planned out to where his whole objective is to be able to help the party (Faerie Fire, Sleep, Help action). Sweet. Sorry to have assumed the worst.

However, this character I currently play is more effective when the resources go to him. I can play him to where I buff allies, which is my plan for my final tier two session, but it wouldn't be as effective. As mentioned above, the goal in AL is to stay alive and accomplish the goal. Fair point, per my note on AL being a little different.

If I can do tons of damage, I accomplish the goal, but no one has fun. If I assist the party and focus on them, they have fun, but we may not accomplish the goal. I'll try and spike a balance. Strike a balance, sure. :smallcool:

One more note: I don't want to be "that guy" and say this, BUT... the character I'm playing is a lawful evil character, and I don't see any in character reason for him not to focus on himself. That doesn't mean I'm not going to start buffing my allies (I will), but it doesn't make much sense IMO . That way lies the potential path to My Guy Syndrome. Again, AL does force a bit of selfish focus so that the character survives to the next session, tier, etc. I guess you have your eyes wide open, so best of luck.

[OldTrees1]

You are overleveled relative to the rest of the party. So by Season 8 rules you can choose to take the Slow Progression and level up at half pace. This will shrink the level gap and make it so you don't overshadow the party.

Once you hit Tier 3 your character will not be in that Tier 2 party.
Once they hit Tier 3 your character (if you stayed at half pace) would only be a couple levels above them.

[darknite]

Good advice.
... The OP appears to not understand this "play as a team" concept, but I hope the answers have helped point the way towards that. ...

Just a quick aside. AL is a funny creature when it comes to team play. That's from my perspective of lots of Convention play, where you can have no idea who's going to sit down with you. As such I find myself making characters who's abilities mesh for themselves and not necessarily ones that will be a group benefit. That said I've got a couple of support PCs I've been playing recently who's only activities are to enhance the team and bring some necessary skill abilities to the table.

[Sigreid]

I would put forth that supporting individuals with the potential to be powerful in order to gain their trust and loyalty is a very lawful evil thing to do.

[JackPhoenix]

As mentioned above, the goal in AL is to stay alive and accomplish the goal.

The goal of ANY D&D game, AL or not, is for everyone to have fun.

You actively ruin the fun of everyone else at your table. What's worse, you're aware of the fact, yet refuse to stop in the name of "effectiveness", apparently using the time-honored excuse of "that's what my character would do".

[Grear Bylls]

I would put forth that supporting individuals with the potential to be powerful in order to gain their trust and loyalty is a very lawful evil thing to do.

Good point. Will definitely be thinking using this mentality from now on.


The goal of ANY D&D game, AL or not, is for everyone to have fun.

You actively ruin the fun of everyone else at your table. What's worse, you're aware of the fact, yet refuse to stop in the name of "effectiveness", apparently using the time-honored excuse of "that's what my character would do".

You know what. You're right. I'm not trying to "actively ruin the fun" at the table, but I guess I am. I'm just trying to accomplish a goal, but forgetting a more important goal. To make sure everyone has a good time.

I will however say that I'm NOT refusing to stop. I have actively admitted several times here how I plan to compensate for this (by buffing allies). I've also stated that the "that's what my character would do" thing does not affect me (I previously said that it doesn't make sense why I'd help, but that won't stop me from doing it. I even admitted that it would be stupid to pull that move as it would make me "that guy").

[zinycor]

My advice would be to not use this character until you are on a table with other characters around the level of him.

Meanwhile play other characters or combinations

[KorvinStarmast]

Just a quick aside. AL is a funny creature when it comes to team play. That's from my perspective of lots of Convention play, where you can have no idea who's going to sit down with you. As such I find myself making characters who's abilities mesh for themselves and not necessarily ones that will be a group benefit. That said I've got a couple of support PCs I've been playing recently who's only activities are to enhance the team and bring some necessary skill abilities to the table. Yeah, thanks for fleshing out the challenges in Con/AL play versus regular play.

My advice would be to not use this character until you are on a table with other characters around the level of him.

Meanwhile play other characters or combinations
Why would you assume that someone has many characters at many levels? A lot of people have lives.

[zinycor]

Why would you assume that someone has many characters at many levels? A lot of people have lives.

Doesn't take that long to create a character for AL. I did one the other day in about 5 to 10 minutes

[KorvinStarmast]

Doesn't take that long to create a character for AL. I did one the other day in about 5 to 10 minutes I have created three, but I only ever got to play one. RL is a thing, and that is exactly what I was referring to. My objection to your post has to do with the time it takes to play multiple characters at differing levels .. that takes time.
How good is your advice for someone who has been able to play one AL character, ever, and got it to level 10? Worthless; if the OP had also a level six or seven character, do you think we'd even have a post to respond to?

If you have the opportunities, and the free time, and a stable AL situation where you can play a lot, and build multiple characters and choose between them, then sure, your advice is OK. My objection was to your assumption that this was the case.

[OldTrees1]

Doesn't take that long to create a character for AL. I did one the other day in about 5 to 10 minutes

That does not address the post you responded to. They asked about many characters at many levels.

You can create a 1st level character in about 5-10m.
Creating a 5th level character takes at least 16 hours (not including updating your character sheet).
Creating a 11th level character takes at least 64 hours (not including updating your character sheet).

[Ganymede]

if the OP had also a level six or seven character, do you think we'd even have a post to respond to?


Based on the tenor of both the original post and the ensuing responses, I'd feel very confident saying yes.

[Keravath]

Doesn't take that long to create a character for AL. I did one the other day in about 5 to 10 minutes

Wouldn't happen to be a 6th level ranger by any chance would it? :)

Anyway ... as mentioned ... you can ONLY create level 1 characters for AL play. Any other level has to be PLAYED to that level. You can't start a character at any level other than 1.

[KorvinStarmast]

Based on the tenor of both the original post and the ensuing responses, I'd feel very confident saying yes. Touché
:smallbiggrin:

[Blood of Gaea]

You know what. You're right. I'm not trying to "actively ruin the fun" at the table, but I guess I am. I'm just trying to accomplish a goal, but forgetting a more important goal. To make sure everyone has a good time.

I will however say that I'm NOT refusing to stop. I have actively admitted several times here how I plan to compensate for this (by buffing allies). I've also stated that the "that's what my character would do" thing does not affect me (I previously said that it doesn't make sense why I'd help, but that won't stop me from doing it. I even admitted that it would be stupid to pull that move as it would make me "that guy").
That's a good first step. The second step would be fully acknowledging this as a problem, and not making PCs that aren't inclined to operate with teamwork in the future.

You're trying to play a character that can work very well in a book, video game, or movie, but that concept really doesn't work out pleasantly at all in a tabletop RPG. It's one of the sacrifices you make to play this genre well, like excepting that rulings may not have 100% consistency, etc.

[Chrismartel0817]

This is why I hate multiclassing

[KorvinStarmast]

That's a good first step. The second step would be fully acknowledging this as a problem, and not making PCs that aren't inclined to operate with teamwork in the future.

You're trying to play a character that can work very well in a book, video game, or movie, but that concept really doesn't work out pleasantly at all in a tabletop RPG. It's one of the sacrifices you make to play this genre well, like excepting that rulings may not have 100% consistency, etc. The problem might be that in AL, if you are not playing with the same group all the time, you end up at tables with differences in levels (Tier 2 is levels 5-10) because That's Who Showed Up To Play.

[Blood of Gaea]

The problem might be that in AL, if you are not playing with the same group all the time, you end up at tables with differences in levels (Tier 2 is levels 5-10) because That's Who Showed Up To Play.
What I said has nothing to do with character builds, and everything to do with character concepts. The fact that PCs in the party can change very often makes a teamwork centric PC more important.

[KorvinStarmast]

The fact that PCs in the party can change very often makes a teamwork centric PC more important. No disagreement with that.

[Damon_Tor]

Absorb Elephants

Sometimes I wish the things I think I see when I read too quickly were real.

[Skylivedk]

I understand the concept, and have a tier 1 character planned out to where his whole objective is to be able to help the party (Faerie Fire, Sleep, Help action). However, this character I currently play is more effective when the resources go to him. I can play him to where I buff allies, which is my plan for my final tier two session, but it wouldn't be as effective. As mentioned above, the goal in AL is to stay alive and accomplish the goal. If I can do tons of damage, I accomplish the goal, but no one has fun. If I assist the party and focus on them, they have fun, but we may not accomplish the goal. I'll try and spike a balance.

One more note: I don't want to be "that guy" and say this, BUT... the character I'm playing is a lawful evil character, and I don't see any in character reason for him not to focus on himself. That doesn't mean I'm not going to start buffing my allies (I will), but it doesn't make much sense IMO.

1. I feel you're being attacked for stealing the limelight when you're actively searching for ways not to do it. A lot of players would be more than happy to dominate and I think it's cool you look for other ways to play. Kudos.

2. Lawful Evil usually loooooves henchmen and indebted "friends". Maybe take the chance to make sure you have some favours to call in when you need a favour? With your build you've survivability and flexibility enough to hang back and take the measure of others. Saving them sometime in the nick of time and (not so) subtly remind them they owe you a blood debt can be very efficient. Especially if the character receiving the help is lawful.

3. Test other ways to play. Illusions, traps, etc.

4. I don't know how much world continuation you have in AL, but I'd see what I could do to build myself a power base; is a guild. I've always liked my NE/LE characters to instigate conflicts that would leave power vacuums for them to sweep into.

5. That ring of spell storing is crazy good. Rather than using it for combat and outshining everybody, maybe have a revify in it or something like (also helps with 3.).

[Grear Bylls]

1. I feel you're being attacked for stealing the limelight when you're actively searching for ways not to do it. A lot of players would be more than happy to dominate and I think it's cool you look for other ways to play. Kudos.

2. Lawful Evil usually loooooves henchmen and indebted "friends". Maybe take the chance to make sure you have some favours to call in when you need a favour? With your build you've survivability and flexibility enough to hang back and take the measure of others. Saving them sometime in the nick of time and (not so) subtly remind them they owe you a blood debt can be very efficient. Especially if the character receiving the help is lawful.

3. Test other ways to play. Illusions, traps, etc.

4. I don't know how much world continuation you have in AL, but I'd see what I could do to build myself a power base; is a guild. I've always liked my NE/LE characters to instigate conflicts that would leave power vacuums for them to sweep into.

5. That ring of spell storing is crazy good. Rather than using it for combat and outshining everybody, maybe have a revify in it or something like (also helps with 3.).

1. Thank you sir! Haven't implemented it yet, but it's in the works

2. Oh don't worry. I always ask OoC if anyone wants to swear fealty to me. I'll eventually grab Speak with Dead so I can give them the option AFTER THEYVE DIED and so they have an in to get back to the mortal world.

3. Maybe for another character. This one is all about survivability and AoE

4. Unfortunately nothing like that OFFICIALLY, but our AL store games all have stuff like that that offers no mechanical benefits but is fun flavor (some players own a brewery). I've definitely looked into those ideas with a Conquest Paladin ally.

5. Yeah, the Ring's pretty solid. It also happens to have a 1 minute atunement which rocks. I definitely considered revivify for the ring when I grabbed it, but I've got money for Raise Dead.

[Skylivedk]

2. Oh don't worry. I always ask OoC if anyone wants to swear fealty to me. I'll eventually grab Speak with Dead so I can give them the option AFTER THEYVE DIED and so they have an in to get back to the mortal world.

3. Maybe for another character. This one is all about survivability and AoE

4. Unfortunately nothing like that OFFICIALLY, but our AL store games all have stuff like that that offers no mechanical benefits but is fun flavor (some players own a brewery). I've definitely looked into those ideas with a Conquest Paladin ally.



2. No need to do it OoC... That might even come across as a bit douche. Offering it in game and in character to someone needing it is much more fun.

3. I get you. More tricks is good for more survivability though :) also being able to mask your strongest side leaves you with an ace in your sleeve.

4. A store selling exotic goods to rich people (or intoxicants/magic items) could fit him nicely. Maybe a representation for the Red Wizards or the Zhentharim if you are in Forgotten Realms? Or a casino! Nothing like indebting even more people while encouraging bad habits and becoming filthy rich.

[Grear Bylls]

4. A store selling exotic goods to rich people (or intoxicants/magic items) could fit him nicely. Maybe a representation for the Red Wizards or the Zhentharim if you are in Forgotten Realms? Or a casino! Nothing like indebting even more people while encouraging bad habits and becoming filthy rich.

One of my plans was to OoG generate tons of gold with Fabricate and Plate armor while in game destroying the economy by flooding it with high value goods. The I checked the FAQ.

[sithlordnergal]

So, you don't need to feel too bad, I know several players this happens to. Some do it on purpose, some do it by accident. Heck, I have two characters in AL that I am very, very careful about using. Ironically, both are Paladin/Full Casters, one as a Paladin/Sorcerer and the other a Paladin/Sorcerer/Druid. My Paladin/Sorcerer is especially bad, since he went through Storm Kings Thunder, Against the Giants, and Tomb of Horrors back when you could roll for treasure. As a result he is sitting on 22 Charisma, a Rod of Lordly Might, and a Belt of Cloud Giant Strength. Here's what I would do:

1) Make yourself a character, grind them up to where they are 1 level above or below the party average while remaining in the same tier. This is my general Rule of Thumb, try to stay within 1 level of the party. That way they are not out-shined by you.

2) If you cannot get yourself a character between those levels, continue using your current one but focus on buffing your party to greater heights. If you're an optimizer like I am, you'll want to do this even if you're on par with party levels. The only times you should bring out your biggest guns to bear is if the party is in a position where they won't survive without you going all out.

3) Try to hold back on getting magic items. I know, it sounds nuts...but keep an eye on what the party has and the rarity of party items. Instead of buying that +3 shield, hold off till the rest of the party has similar gear. Also, talk to your DM before you buy really crazy things like a Staff of the Magi, or Staff of Power. They may request you hold off on buying it.

[Malifice]

I have about 3 attacks per round with Haste, Action, Action Surge, and bonus action attacks

Again your DM kind of sucks. He should do this:

DM: As you round the corner you see X monsters standing 30' away from you. They howl in rage and charge! Roll initiative.

Just how often will you be entering combat with Haste active? I see your DM has allowed some kind of custom magic item (ring of spell storing, with one minute attumenent time, that he's also let your familiar use despite the fact that your familliar is an Owl and doesnt have any fingers).

Even ignoring this, your Owl rolls its own initiative (seperate to yours), and you'll need to mess around with the delay action (or it will have to) on Round 1 in order to get you Hasted in time for any combat to occur. While you (and the Owl) are mucking about with the Delay action, one of the monsters simply attacks your Owl (any damage kills it) dropping Haste and leaving you unable to act for Round 2 (when Haste drops you miss a turn).

I bet your so called awesome DM isnt doing initiative properly, isnt doing actions properly, is making all kinds of rules errors, and is clearly very monty haul or a push over (looking at the items you're carrying around with you).

The issue is with your DM. I'm all but certain of it.

[Grear Bylls]

I think your analysis isn't very fair or by AL rules (which is VERY RAW).


DM: As you round the corner you see X monsters standing 30' away from you. They howl in rage and charge! Roll initiative.

That would be incredibly boring and repetitive if every fight was like that.


Just how often will you be entering combat with Haste active?

None. That wouldn't work unless the enemy was unaware or we literally JUST finished a fight.


I see your DM has allowed some kind of custom magic item (ring of spell storing, with one minute attumenent time,

Not custom. From a module where it has what AL calls "fast atunement".

This is understandable as you (big assumption) probably don't play AL


that he's also let your familiar use despite the fact that your familliar is an Owl and doesnt have any fingers).

In the rules and an AL guide, it does state that creatures and familiars, respectively, can atunement to items at the cost of a players atunement. However, it is DM discretion that they can use the item. A familiar is linked to oneself, so it is reasonable to say that it could use an item

Additionally, the ring just says that the attuned creature can cast the spell. I'm pretty sure there aren't stipulations (AfB).


Even ignoring this, your Owl rolls its own initiative (seperate to yours), and you'll need to mess around with the delay action (or it will have to) on Round 1 in order to get you Hasted in time for any combat to occur. While you (and the Owl) are mucking about with the Delay action, one of the monsters simply attacks your Owl (any damage kills it) dropping Haste and leaving you unable to act for Round 2 (when Haste drops you miss a turn).

Every DM I've had has it go on my initiative as otherwise it would bog down the game greatly. Also, if you were generic monster #9, would you really attack the owl over an armed force? A Mage I could get, but random monsters? Also, owls can fly out of range/behind cover.


I bet your so called awesome DM isnt doing initiative properly, isnt doing actions properly, is making all kinds of rules errors, and is clearly very monty haul or a push over (looking at the items you're carrying around with you).

Again, this is AL. The items aren't his fault, he's exceptionally expirienced with the rules, is ruling actions properly, and... ok, I concede on initiative, but that's for expediency of play. Overall, you've made lots of assumptions about his competence even though he is following nearly all of the rules put in play for him to utilize.

[Ganymede]

One of my plans was to OoG generate tons of gold with Fabricate and Plate armor while in game destroying the economy by flooding it with high value goods. The I checked the FAQ.

Messing with the guilds of Waterdeep is a quick way to end up with a Pegasus' head in your bed.

[zinycor]

Wouldn't happen to be a 6th level ranger by any chance would it? :)

Anyway ... as mentioned ... you can ONLY create level 1 characters for AL play. Any other level has to be PLAYED to that level. You can't start a character at any level other than 1.

Really? Whenever I have played they have allowed me to create characters of whatever level I feel like... I guess it must be an exception.

[zinycor]

I have created three, but I only ever got to play one. RL is a thing, and that is exactly what I was referring to. My objection to your post has to do with the time it takes to play multiple characters at differing levels .. that takes time.
How good is your advice for someone who has been able to play one AL character, ever, and got it to level 10? Worthless; if the OP had also a level six or seven character, do you think we'd even have a post to respond to?

If you have the opportunities, and the free time, and a stable AL situation where you can play a lot, and build multiple characters and choose between them, then sure, your advice is OK. My objection was to your assumption that this was the case.

Geez... No need to be so aggresive man. Sorry that I Played AL with a group that didn't consider that rule

[Keravath]

Really? Whenever I have played they have allowed me to create characters of whatever level I feel like... I guess it must be an exception.

Interesting. Adventurers League (AL) is an official way of creating and playing characters that can be played at any Adventurers League event at a convention, at a local game store or even in a home run game. However, the characters can only play Adventurers League approved content (currently in Season 8 .. plus the hardcover adventures). Every play session is logged to a log sheet listing the module played, rewards received, the date and the DM who ran it including their DCI number.

Anyway, the point of Adventurers League is that you aren’t supposed to make up whatever sort of character you like ... you start play from level 1. However, up until level 5 you are allowed to change everything about the character except the name .. from level 5 onward AL characters progress as usual characters and decisions are permanent.

Hope that clarifies things a bit. You might want to check with the folks you are playing with as to how Adventurers League is supposed to work and whether they know you are just making up the characters. Unless you tell them they may think you have played them previously, just not with that particular group.

[zinycor]

Anyway, the point of Adventurers League is that you aren’t supposed to make up whatever sort of character you like ... you start play from level 1. However, up until level 5 you are allowed to change everything about the character except the name .. from level 5 onward AL characters progress as usual characters and decisions are permanent.
.

That must be it, since I didn't really change the name of my character

[jdolch]

Seems like AL has a Rule for everything, except ....


"Whoops, I think we forgot to make a rule!"


"I don't know what you are talking about. We made a rule for EVERYTHING!"


"Wouldn't it be good if the characters all need to have roughly the same level or something?"


"Erm .... Whoopsie. Well, nothing we can about it now. Don't worry. Nobody's gonna notice ... probably."

[Schopy]

...
I've since picked up Find Familiar, the mobile feat, a one minute atunement Ring of Spell Storing, Gauntlets of Ogre power, and a Flametongue Greatsword (a gift from the epic PeteNutButter).
...
All in all, I sympathize with the players, but I'm not sure what to do. I've designed my character to be BRUTAL in combat, which has the side effect of over shadowing other players. What do you guys think I should do?

If there would have been a lot of big "cool" looking fantasy pictures, you could have been mistaken for another SORCERER KING thread there.

If you want to reduce your power level, you could always stow away your Gauntlets of Ogre Power. ☺ And when things go bad, you put them on and say in a very dramatic manner: "BY THE POWER OF Cloak Ardragon Vonvidüre Fredrick van Strauss!" and voilà, you are now the lawful evil comic relief. And they can get away with a lot, if they are funny.

But maybe it's better to try the more serious advices other people were giving.

[Blood of Gaea]

I see your DM has allowed some kind of custom magic item (ring of spell storing, with one minute attumenent time, that he's also let your familiar use despite the fact that your familliar is an Owl and doesnt have any fingers).
No, that's perfectly legal.


Magic rings offer an amazing array of powers to those lucky enough to find them. Unless a ring's description says otherwise, a ring must be worn on a finger, or a similar digit, for the ring's magic to function.

Owls have toes.

[Malifice]

Owls have toes.

Mate it's a custom magic item, that requires a finger the creature doesnt have (and a judgement call on if a much narrower toe counts), and that is almost certainly being allowed to be used in a manner outside of the rules (I doubt the owl is rolling separate initiative and then casting the spell via the delay action on the PC), and is almost certainly never exposed by having a monster take out the owl (breaking the spell and shutting the PC down for a round).

And we wonder why its causing problems.

Again, these are all problems caused by the DM. I blame him.

[jdolch]

If there would have been a lot of big "cool" looking fantasy pictures, you could have been mistaken for another SORCERER KING thread there.

Man. That Sorcerer King dude really got to you guys, didn't he? It's like PTSD. How about we stop with accusing random people of this "Sorcerer King" stuff? Seriously...

I don't think the dude was very stealthy in his approach. So how about we can these accusations until somebody ACTUALLY posts a "Sorcerer King"-Thread?

Or do you want me to hand you a pitchfork and a torch?

[Malifice]

I think your analysis isn't very fair or by AL rules (which is VERY RAW).



That would be incredibly boring and repetitive if every fight was like that.



None. That wouldn't work unless the enemy was unaware or we literally JUST finished a fight.



Not custom. From a module where it has what AL calls "fast atunement".

This is understandable as you (big assumption) probably don't play AL



In the rules and an AL guide, it does state that creatures and familiars, respectively, can atunement to items at the cost of a players atunement. However, it is DM discretion that they can use the item. A familiar is linked to oneself, so it is reasonable to say that it could use an item

Additionally, the ring just says that the attuned creature can cast the spell. I'm pretty sure there aren't stipulations (AfB).



Every DM I've had has it go on my initiative as otherwise it would bog down the game greatly. Also, if you were generic monster #9, would you really attack the owl over an armed force? A Mage I could get, but random monsters? Also, owls can fly out of range/behind cover.



Again, this is AL. The items aren't his fault, he's exceptionally expirienced with the rules, is ruling actions properly, and... ok, I concede on initiative, but that's for expediency of play. Overall, you've made lots of assumptions about his competence even though he is following nearly all of the rules put in play for him to utilize.

How many items are you and your owl attuned to again?

The gauntlets, sword and ring alone?

And all it takes is an AoE and the Owl is toast (and your spell with it)

I bet your DM forgets it exists when you get caught in AoE (which should be happening rather often). When was the last time you made a save for the Owl, or it took an attack.

And yes, I would have the occasional arrow head towards the Owl. Chaos of battle and all that. Plus, Its just flown over to you and cast a spell on you from a magic ring.

If I narrated an enemy familiar doing the same on an enemy NPC mage, to you, what would you do?

I like magic missile for this. 4 missiles for you... and one for your familiar.

[jdolch]

If I narrated an enemy familiar doing the same on an enemy NPC mage, to you, what would you do?

Good Point.

[Schopy]

Man. That Sorcerer King dude really got to you guys, didn't he? It's like PTSD. How about we stop with accusing random people of this "Sorcerer King" stuff? Seriously...

I don't think the dude was very stealthy in his approach. So how about we can these accusations until somebody ACTUALLY posts a "Sorcerer King"-Thread?

Or do you want me to hand you a pitchfork and a torch?

Uh, wot? :confused:

[Spore]

One more note: I don't want to be "that guy" and say this, BUT... the character I'm playing is a lawful evil character, and I don't see any in character reason for him not to focus on himself. That doesn't mean I'm not going to start buffing my allies (I will), but it doesn't make much sense IMO.

Well, then your character is just badly built from a story perspective. Don't get me wrong, of what I have seen of AL, you basically play blank "adventurer types" as in: Backstory not needed or needing to be approved. But a character that would never fight with others is just a bad pick for an AL character. You said you change that, and I trust in you to do so but just two prominent examples of LE:

Artemis Entreri and Darth Vader: Darth Vader is what TV Tropes calls a dragoon. Basically an enforcer. He is highly dangerous to anyone around him so he prefers to be alone. Yes he works with forces, but those are basically mooks under his command (see your undead entourage), even allied commanders (but those would be quest givers). The character oozes cool, but is ultimatively terrible for a player.

The other is Artemis Entreri, the lawful evil assassin that hates Drizz't so much (incidentally Drizz't is imho also a terrible character for groups but that is not the point here). He thinks other people slow him down, and stop him, and he wants to finally duel Drizz't and be better than him. Again, you could build him AL legal, and he would ironically be a character that very much prefers well planned ambushes (done easiest alone!) so I hope you get my point.

That plus I enjoy the image of an overlevelled character standing at the edge of the battlefield, commanding his friends (and throwing the occasional fireball) "just to test out if they're worth his presence".

Additionally if you can get the DM away from the group every now and then, talk to him about the focus fire thing. The last thing your character needs is MORE attention in the form of enemy fire. Yes, the enemy forces should stop the guy that is most dangerous. The enemy NPCs should know about your character and prepare their spells not to kill you - since that seems foolish at best - but to disable you. Hold Person, Entangle, Wall of Force, Web, etc.


Uh, wot? :confused:

There's a guy posting his sorcerer builds here adamant about trying to convince the forum that sorcerer is the bestest class ever and can do everything other classes do, but better. The posts drip in edge, more often than not assign perfectly fitting magic items to the build and granting the character exclusive NPC abilities by virtue of some adventure path to make his build work - and overpowering his build to the point of being a Gary Stu.

People start to compare OP to this guy.

[Malifice]

Well, then your character is just badly built from a story perspective. Don't get me wrong, of what I have seen of AL, you basically play blank "adventurer types" as in: Backstory not needed or needing to be approved. But a character that would never fight with others is just a bad pick for an AL character. You said you change that, and I trust in you to do so but just two prominent examples of LE:

Artemis Entreri and Darth Vader: Darth Vader is what TV Tropes calls a dragoon. Basically an enforcer. He is highly dangerous to anyone around him so he prefers to be alone. Yes he works with forces, but those are basically mooks under his command (see your undead entourage), even allied commanders (but those would be quest givers). The character oozes cool, but is ultimatively terrible for a player.

The other is Artemis Entreri, the lawful evil assassin that hates Drizz't so much (incidentally Drizz't is imho also a terrible character for groups but that is not the point here). He thinks other people slow him down, and stop him, and he wants to finally duel Drizz't and be better than him. Again, you could build him AL legal, and he would ironically be a character that very much prefers well planned ambushes (done easiest alone!) so I hope you get my point.

That plus I enjoy the image of an overlevelled character standing at the edge of the battlefield, commanding his friends (and throwing the occasional fireball) "just to test out if they're worth his presence".

Additionally if you can get the DM away from the group every now and then, talk to him about the focus fire thing. The last thing your character needs is MORE attention in the form of enemy fire. Yes, the enemy forces should stop the guy that is most dangerous. The enemy NPCs should know about your character and prepare their spells not to kill you - since that seems foolish at best - but to disable you. Hold Person, Entangle, Wall of Force, Web, etc.



There's a guy posting his sorcerer builds here adamant about trying to convince the forum that sorcerer is the bestest class ever and can do everything other classes do, but better. The posts drip in edge, more often than not assign perfectly fitting magic items to the build and granting the character exclusive NPC abilities by virtue of some adventure path to make his build work - and overpowering his build to the point of being a Gary Stu.

People start to compare OP to this guy.

Darth Vader is CE.

There isnt a lawful bone in his body.

Never keeps his word, betrays everyone, has no respect for authority, family or tradition and acts how his hate, fear and rage dictate.

He ain't lawful. Hes an extremely chaotic individual in service to a very LE regime.

A regime that he ultimately betrays and destroys as well. Just like he did to the Jedi order and the Republic before it.

Man cant be trusted. He has no code. He serves the Emperor only out of fear. Hes the embodiment of CE.

[jdolch]

Cool. Let's talk about Star Wars instead...

[Schopy]

There's a guy posting his sorcerer builds here adamant about trying to convince the forum that sorcerer is the bestest class ever and can do everything other classes do, but better. The posts drip in edge, more often than not assign perfectly fitting magic items to the build and granting the character exclusive NPC abilities by virtue of some adventure path to make his build work - and overpowering his build to the point of being a Gary Stu.

People start to compare OP to this guy.

Yeah i was that guy, didn't realise somebody else already did. Did anyone else? It was a (failed) attempt at an tongue-in-cheek comparison, because the OP came across as very much bragging about his superior char concept.

I was just confused about the somewhat emotional answer from user jdolch.

Anyway, i'll try to mark my not so seriously meant postings with tags or blue color in future. ☺

[Unoriginal]

Yeah i was that guy, didn't realise somebody else already did. Did anyone else? It was a (failed) attempt at an tongue-in-cheek comparison, because the OP came across as very much bragging about his superior char concept.

I was just confused about the somewhat emotional answer from user jdolch.

Anyway, i'll try to mark my not so seriously meant postings with tags or blue color in future. ☺

One of jdolch's threads/his build was compared to him.

[jdolch]

Yeah i was that guy, didn't realise somebody else already did. Did anyone else? It was a (failed) attempt at an tongue-in-cheek comparison, because the OP came across as very much bragging about his superior char concept.

I was just confused about the somewhat emotional answer from user jdolch.

Anyway, i'll try to mark my not so seriously meant postings with tags or blue color in future. ☺

I admit to being somewhat emotional about this, since i just got a legitimate build thread of mine completely hijacked by this "Witch-Hunt", just because some people got triggered by the title.

I get that there is some sort of history with this "Sorcerer King" on this forum, but bringing that sort of Witch-Hunt to threads of people who are clearly not this "Sorcerer King" is not fair. No matter how tongue-in-cheek.


One of jdolch's threads/his build was compared to him.

Nothing was compared to anything. They simply saw a title and got #triggered. Even changing the title to literally include "(NOT Sorcerer-King)" didn't help.

[Unoriginal]

I admit to being somewhat emotional about this, since i just got a legitimate build thread of mine completely hijacked by this "Witch-Hunt", just because some people got triggered by the title.

I get that there is some sort of history with this "Sorcerer King" on this forum, but bringing that sort of Witch-Hunt to threads of people who are clearly not this "Sorcerer King" is not fair. No matter how tongue-in-cheek.



Nothing was compared to anything. They simply saw a title and got #triggered. Even changing the title to literally include "(NOT Sorcerer-King)" didn't help.

People reacted to your build too, jdolch. They didn't just witch-hunt you because of that title.

[jdolch]

People reacted to your build too, jdolch. They didn't just witch-hunt you because of that title.

So. You are telling me off because I think it's unfair that people post in a thread while making no actual contribution to the topic, while you yourself, just now, came into this thread and made literally ZERO contribution to the actual topic. Is the Irony of that really lost?

[Unoriginal]

So. You are telling me off because I think it's unfair that people post in a thread while making no actual contribution to the topic, while you yourself, just now, came into this thread and made literally ZERO contribution to the actual topic. Is the Irony of that really lost?

ZERO contribution, you say? I literally made my first post in this thread just before your own first one, and it wasn't my last post.

Also, I wasn't telling you off, I was correcting your account of the events. People didn't gang up on you because of your thread title. Some admittted they thought it was a Sorcerer King thread, but they left it at that. Afterward people started pointing out flaws about your build, accurate or not I couldn't tell because I didn't have the time to do an analysis when it was going on, and you got annoyed at that, dismissing what they told you.

[jdolch]

ZERO contribution, you say? I literally made my first post in this thread just before your own first one, and it wasn't my last post.

You're totally correct on that account. My apologies. I had another thread open at the same time and confused the two.


Also, I wasn't telling you off, I was correcting your account of the events. People didn't gang up on you because of your thread title. Some admittted they thought it was a Sorcerer King thread, but they left it at that. Afterward people started pointing out flaws about your build, accurate or not I couldn't tell because I didn't have the time to do an analysis when it was going on, and you got annoyed at that, dismissing what they told you.

I didn't say they ganged up on me. I said they "hijacked" (as in derailed) the thread. They didn't say anything against me personally or the build, but they did all feel a strange need to come in and make posts about some Sorcerer King that had literally nothing to do with my build. Much like both of us are doing right now, by the way. So I want to wrap this up. Tell you what I am gonna do: I'll send you the original post and then you can read it and make up your own mind, if you want to.

[Grear Bylls]

If there would have been a lot of big "cool" looking fantasy pictures, you could have been mistaken for another SORCERER KING thread there.

If you want to reduce your power level, you could always stow away your Gauntlets of Ogre Power. ☺ And when things go bad, you put them on and say in a very dramatic manner: "BY THE POWER OF Cloak Ardragon Vonvidüre Fredrick van Strauss!" and voilà, you are now the lawful evil comic relief. And they can get away with a lot, if they are funny.

But maybe it's better to try the more serious advices other people were giving.

As much as I hate being compared to the Sorcerer King (I have not shown stats until asked, don't use stupid pictures, have no edge, and have tried to be respectful to other posters), I REALLY love the idea of him not using his Gauntlets until he truly needs to, kind of a "my power is to strong for you to with stand" kind of thing. He is also occasionally comic relief, so that would work to. Besides, doing that doesn't stop me from buffing allies, and it would actually encourage me to stick in the back.

As an aside, can we try and keep it civil here? I don't want a mod descending on us to lock this, as this post may very welll be going that way.

[jdolch]

If you really want to keep playing this character in games that are actually not level appropriate for him, you could really focus on buffing the group, healing the group and controlling the enemies without actually doing all that much damage yourself. This would probably go a long way as to get people to not feel overshadowed so much and instead feel like they themselves get more agency in the game.

[Keravath]

Mate it's a custom magic item, that requires a finger the creature doesnt have (and a judgement call on if a much narrower toe counts), and that is almost certainly being allowed to be used in a manner outside of the rules (I doubt the owl is rolling separate initiative and then casting the spell via the delay action on the PC), and is almost certainly never exposed by having a monster take out the owl (breaking the spell and shutting the PC down for a round).

And we wonder why its causing problems.

Again, these are all problems caused by the DM. I blame him.

Unfortunately it is an item that drops in an AL module. DDAL 4-8 The Broken One from the Curse of Strahd season. It wasn't made up by this DM.

"A character may attune to this item in 1 minute."

However, the one minute attunement isn't really the issue except that it makes it much easier for other characters to add spells to the ring or to pass it around during an adventure.

The main issue is that AL allows you to have a familiar attune to a magic item but it costs one of your attunement slots. The rules on wearing a magic item indicate that the creature has to have an equivalent way of wearing the item. Depending on the owl, it could be one one of their talons or around their ankle.

The ring description then says:

"While wearing the ring, you can cast any spell stored in it."

So, in theory, RAW, the owl can put on such a ring and cast a spell from it.

In addition, a familiar communicates telepathically with its caster and will take the actions instructed by its caster (e.g. taking the help action in combat). So it isn't that much of a stretch if the caster instructs the familiar to cast a spell from the ring onto him.

Personally, I would like to rule that the owl doesn't have the ability to maintain concentration on such a spell ... however, there is no support in the rules for such a position and in fact there is sage advice indicating that polymorphed creatures which receive the full stat block including mental stats, CAN maintain concentration on spells that they have already cast. So the low mental stats of the owl are not a reason for losing concentration.

Basically, the entire situation of using a ring on an owl familiar to cast haste on a character is allowable by RAW.

As a DM, I would probably look around and see what environmental hazards are available ... are there any creatures nearby who might like to eat the owl? The owl has only 1 hp and if it dies often enough then the character will stop using this admittedly cheesy tactic.

[jdolch]

As a DM, I would probably look around and see what environmental hazards are available ... are there any creatures nearby who might like to eat the owl? The owl has only 1 hp and if it dies often enough then the character will stop using this admittedly cheesy tactic.

If you are suggesting what i think you are suggesting then I have you know that I find the idea of a Psychopathic Hawk Spirit stalking the Owl intriguing.

[PeteNutButter]

Unfortunately it is an item that drops in an AL module. DDAL 4-8 The Broken One from the Curse of Strahd season. It wasn't made up by this DM.

"A character may attune to this item in 1 minute."

However, the one minute attunement isn't really the issue except that it makes it much easier for other characters to add spells to the ring or to pass it around during an adventure.

The main issue is that AL allows you to have a familiar attune to a magic item but it costs one of your attunement slots. The rules on wearing a magic item indicate that the creature has to have an equivalent way of wearing the item. Depending on the owl, it could be one one of their talons or around their ankle.

The ring description then says:

"While wearing the ring, you can cast any spell stored in it."

So, in theory, RAW, the owl can put on such a ring and cast a spell from it.

In addition, a familiar communicates telepathically with its caster and will take the actions instructed by its caster (e.g. taking the help action in combat). So it isn't that much of a stretch if the caster instructs the familiar to cast a spell from the ring onto him.

Personally, I would like to rule that the owl doesn't have the ability to maintain concentration on such a spell ... however, there is no support in the rules for such a position and in fact there is sage advice indicating that polymorphed creatures which receive the full stat block including mental stats, CAN maintain concentration on spells that they have already cast. So the low mental stats of the owl are not a reason for losing concentration.

Basically, the entire situation of using a ring on an owl familiar to cast haste on a character is allowable by RAW.

As a DM, I would probably look around and see what environmental hazards are available ... are there any creatures nearby who might like to eat the owl? The owl has only 1 hp and if it dies often enough then the character will stop using this admittedly cheesy tactic.

There is a slight drawback in AL. Having any of your "pets" attuned to an item counts against one of the players attunement slots. It's dumb but kinda balanced. I pointed out before the danger of casting haste specifically considering how easy it is to kill a familiar.

I used the same trick with my shield guardian, having him cast haste on me... But that thing was just silly OP, so I'm happy they up and banned him.

[Schopy]

As much as I hate being compared to the Sorcerer King (I have not shown stats until asked, don't use stupid pictures, have no edge, and have tried to be respectful to other posters), I REALLY love the idea of him not using his Gauntlets until he truly needs to, kind of a "my power is to strong for you to with stand" kind of thing. He is also occasionally comic relief, so that would work to. Besides, doing that doesn't stop me from buffing allies, and it would actually encourage me to stick in the back.

As an aside, can we try and keep it civil here? I don't want a mod descending on us to lock this, as this post may very welll be going that way.

Hmm, I truly did not expect so strong reactions to my seemingly ill-advised comparison to that particular postings (i even think they can sometimes be amusing in a way). I think the detailed showing off in what ways your char was better/more optimized (and with borderline, though legal, cheese) than the rest of your party rubbed me off the wrong way and reminded me of said postings. I apologize, that was unfair and/or uncalled for, i'll avoid those comparisons in the future. *still a bit confused about it all though* 🤔

I would not have thought that giving up your Gauntlets, however temporarily, would be something you'd consider. So both parts of my posting were taken way more seriously than anticipated. I'm still on the fence if that is something good or bad.

Another thing i wanted to ask, how long does your typical turn last? All of your attacks, actions from Warhorse, (Owl), 4 Zombies, Rerolls... and you were talking about being in an elemental based dungeon too. Have they all been with you there? In addition to the rest of the party? Was (crowded) space an issue at any time? Are the other party members fine with your walking dead? Those questions might not be relevant to the main issue, i am just wondering.

[Unoriginal]

At this point in the adventure, aren't your skeletons damaged, and your warhorse too?

Given you've used up your Scroll of Haste, I don't think your character will be nearly as powerful in the next session.

[KorvinStarmast]

Geez... No need to be so aggresive man. Sorry that I Played AL with a group that didn't consider that rule Hey, sorry about the tone there. My bad, totally. :smalleek:

As an aside, can we try and keep it civil here? I don't want a mod descending on us to lock this, as this post may very welll be going that way. Apologies if I contributed to that, to you and zinycor both.

[Grear Bylls]

Another thing i wanted to ask, how long does your typical turn last? All of your attacks, actions from Warhorse, (Owl), 4 Zombies, Rerolls... and you were talking about being in an elemental based dungeon too. Have they all been with you there? In addition to the rest of the party? Was (crowded) space an issue at any time? Are the other party members fine with your walking dead? Those questions might not be relevant to the main issue, i am just wondering.

Not very long for all the stuff I do. I always plan my turn in advance, so as to save time. Sometimes I don't have my undead attacks as my BA is used for Misty Step or the Flametongue. Warhorse has a speed of 120 with dash (24 squares), so when the enemy is just out of range of othe melees, we kind of just assume that I can get there instead of counting it out. The dungeon was 20x20 squares on all levels I think, so there was plenty of room. Additionally, my character has his minions under the affects of Gentle Repose AFTER he animated them, and uses Mending when necessary to give the illusion of trained soldiers, as the DM has ruled that since they were warriors in life, they retain (half) proficiency in Longswords, and can still use armor. I can guess what Malifice is going to say about that...


At this point in the adventure, aren't your skeletons damaged, and your warhorse too?

Given you've used up your Scroll of Haste, I don't think your character will be nearly as powerful in the next session.

The DM wasn't attacking my steed at all, but yes, I lost three zombies before the final fight.

[darknite]

... Him and the other players have expressed distaste for my min-maxed character, and say it is reducing their fun.

Well, you are playing AL so they need to understand that such PCs are the norm in that environment - at least as I've experienced it. The DM has the ability to dial up the challenge to meet party capability, in fact I'd argue they have an obligation to do so. Putting the "harshing my buzz" on you doesn't seem as apropos as sharing quite a bit of that criticism with the DM.


My build is the previously mentioned BM 3/Abjurer 7. I'm a V human w/ GWM who started fighter (for obvious reasons). I've since picked up Find Familiar, the mobile feat, a one minute atunement Ring of Spell Storing, Gauntlets of Ogre power, and a Flametongue Greatsword (a gift from the epic PeteNutButter). I have a typical entourage of an Owl, Found Warhorse (Find Steed), and 4 Zombies. My familiar uses the Ring to give me Haste and proceeds to fly away, and I go in Hammer away with Action Surge, Haste, Booming Blade, GWM power attack, and the occcasional bonus action attack. My GWF ability is incredibly brutal as i have so many dice. To contrast my martial prowess, I'm still a full caster, decked out in favorites like Shield, Absorb Elements, Misty Step, Fireball, Counterspell, Haste, Banishment, and Wall of Fire. ...

As others have done, I'll comment on the PC a bit. How does a warhorse get around in a dungeon? The familiar-Ring of Spell Storing is very DM dependent - don't expect it to survive from one DM to the next - and the familiar should be quickly targetted if seen casting a spell. Still, it's a fine base build with good item/class synergy. You'll find things that will challenge you more in Tier 3 and 4 (fighting a God is not for the weak-hearted)...

[Schopy]

Has everyone in your party a Warhorse via the ring? I'm not familiar with AL rules, but lending an item seems to be possible (looked that one up). Or would that have taken too many long rests or something like that?

[Zuras]

Honestly I think your biggest issue is all the pets. They’re always hanging around and making it obvious how much more firepower you have.

The key in AL is to avoid overshadowing other players if you significantly out-level them.

Nobody cares that you are an optimized L10 Cavalier tank with 25 AC if the other party members are all full casters and rogues. With your pets + casting you are effectively taking up too many party roles at once-tank, main damage, and artillery.

Ditch the undead, use the Steed only as a mount, and tone down the legal-but-cheesy familiar shenanigans. Then, at each AL table, evaluate what role your fellow players don’t have covered, and fill that role if you can. You should be able to tank, support, and serve as artillery as needed.

[Unoriginal]

Honestly I think your biggest issue is all the pets. They’re always hanging around and making it obvious how much more firepower you have.

The key in AL is to avoid overshadowing other players if you significantly out-level them.

Nobody cares that you are an optimized L10 Cavalier tank with 25 AC if the other party members are all full casters and rogues. With your pets + casting you are effectively taking up too many party roles at once-tank, main damage, and artillery.

Ditch the undead, use the Steed only as a mount, and tone down the legal-but-cheesy familiar shenanigans. Then, at each AL table, evaluate what role your fellow players don’t have covered, and fill that role if you can. You should be able to tank, support, and serve as artillery as needed.

What I don't get is how the pets didn't get destroyed in all those fights.

[Citan]

Hey all!

So, I recently finished up one of my last Tier 2 sessions with one of my Adventurers League characters, a 3rd level Battlemaster, 7th level Abjurer, Human. This character has been ABSURDLY powerful (almost single-handedly killing a 5 headed hydra, taking 10 points of damage), and has basically carried every party he's been with. He'd been traveling with a group in Barovia, and had been mainly casting Fireball and Haste to take out large groups of BBEGs. He just left the Demiplane of Dread, and shortly after returning to the real world, went to clear out an elemental based dungeon. We (the party) fought 4 black puddings, 6 Humans with abilities (probably Cult fanatics or bandits), two spell casting snakes, 4 water elementals, a high level Mage, two water weirds, and an aforementioned hydra, all without rest. The majority of our five man army was level 6 (average), and I was 10. Most of the group was upset by how effective my character was, and told me so after the session. The DM (who was my first one ever, and one of my favorites), has told me my character has achieved his goal in his world: to be well known. However, the DM has stated ALL MONSTERS WILL NOW BE FOCUS FIRING ME, from hearing about the rumors of Cloak Ardragon Vonvidüre Fredrick van Strauss. Him and the other players have expressed distaste for my min-maxed character, and say it is reducing their fun. I'm not trying to do this intentionally, and see their point (very clearly I might add). I number crunched the numbers on my character and it turns out his nova AND Average damage is TWICE that of a comparable level Fighter with more common equipment, with my AC being an effective 4 points higher in addition to similar HP.

My build is the previously mentioned BM 3/Abjurer 7. I'm a V human w/ GWM who started fighter (for obvious reasons). I've since picked up Find Familiar, the mobile feat, a one minute atunement Ring of Spell Storing, Gauntlets of Ogre power, and a Flametongue Greatsword (a gift from the epic PeteNutButter). I have a typical entourage of an Owl, Found Warhorse (Find Steed), and 4 Zombies. My familiar uses the Ring to give me Haste and proceeds to fly away, and I go in Hammer away with Action Surge, Haste, Booming Blade, GWM power attack, and the occcasional bonus action attack. My GWF ability is incredibly brutal as i have so many dice. To contrast my martial prowess, I'm still a full caster, decked out in favorites like Shield, Absorb Elements, Misty Step, Fireball, Counterspell, Haste, Banishment, and Wall of Fire.

All in all, I sympathize with the players, but I'm not sure what to do. I've designed my character to be BRUTAL in combat, which has the side effect of over shadowing other players. What do you guys think I should do?
Hi.

You're playing a combat-focused character who's four levels higher than the rest of the party, and has a large number of specific magical items that the other PCs don't have.

Your gaming group is suffering because your character is not an appropriate one for their game.

Change your character.

The fact that you want to play one specific character is irrelevant if it upsets the rest of your group, especially if they get the point of not asking you back to the table.
I'll sadly have to support this idea.
From what I understand of AL parties and DM change often, so we can't blame the current DM for that stupidly crazy good magical equipment you're loaded with.
Which is honestly 50% of the problem.
The other being that you are 4 level higher than everyone else, and that is a big deal, even if you are "lesser" than you could in some aspects because of the multiclass.

If you want to keep your character though, I see several things that could easily change things.
1. Ask DM authorization to change Manoeuvers, and think of others: pick Goading Attack to help them get on offensive with lower risk, pick Trip Attack to give advantage to pals, or even Commander's Strike or other manoeuver that place benefit on your friends.

2. Stop using Familiar's Haste for yourself, order him to buff one friend, and Haste another.
I'm honestly surprised you didn't put this suggestion yourself.
More generally, stop thinking about yourself (speaking in-character ;)) and use spells to buff others.

Honestly, just these two things should greatly reduce the potency difference, and you showing white paw on trying to push other characters will certainly help players and DM to stand down on their passive-agressive cold war.

EDIT: Side-note: how do other characters fare with yours using skeletons? I'm all for open-minded characters, but I bet any lawful good, or even plain good, would have some trouble getting daily life with those...


I guese you’ll just have to find a way to not be so awesome.

I can relate, I often have the same problem blinding people with my sheer mastery of the game. I usually hand out shades to everyone before a game session.

My suggestion would be to adopt a “Clark Kent” Strategy and play the next few sessions as a bumbling fighter.
If it looks like things are gonna go south, just bust out the S on your chest, fly around real fast and save everybody :)
I love your humor. ;)

[Grear Bylls]

Hi.

...

Honestly, just these two things should greatly reduce the potency difference, and you showing white paw on trying to push other characters will certainly help players and DM to stand down on their passive-agressive cold war.

EDIT: Side-note: how do other characters fare with yours using skeletons? I'm all for open-minded characters, but I bet any lawful good, or even plain good, would have some trouble getting daily life with those...

Hi!

Both of those ideas are great. I was considering the double Haste opportunity shortly after making the OP, as it would improve 2 other players. And worst case scenario, I can come in and save the day once Concentration is lost.

2 or 3 characters have expressed distaste for Undead OoC as something their character would see. However, IC, I use Mending and Gentle Repose to keep the bodies fresh. To your average bystander, they look like incredibly stoic and disciplined guards. Only one CN Vengeance Paladin has sensed the Undead, and he's acknowledged that they are useful, even if he disagrees with the practice

[Keravath]

Hi!

Both of those ideas are great. I was considering the double Haste opportunity shortly after making the OP, as it would improve 2 other players. And worst case scenario, I can come in and save the day once Concentration is lost.

2 or 3 characters have expressed distaste for Undead OoC as something their character would see. However, IC, I use Mending and Gentle Repose to keep the bodies fresh. To your average bystander, they look like incredibly stoic and disciplined guards. Only one CN Vengeance Paladin has sensed the Undead, and he's acknowledged that they are useful, even if he disagrees with the practice

Unfortunately, neither mending nor gentle repose work the way your DM appears to be letting you.

1) Mending works on objects not creatures.
"This spell repairs a single break or tear in an object you touch"
2) Gentle repose PREVENTS a body from becoming undead.
"You touch a corpse or other remains. For the duration, the target is protected from decay and can't become undead."

A zombie is also not a corpse it is an undead creature. So if you use it before it becomes undead you can't create the zombie and if you try to cast it after it is no longer a corpse or other remains ... it is an undead.

So, no, you don't have stoic guards, you have stinking corpses with wounds that are obviously undead. (or at least that is how I would interpret the rules ... )

[Grear Bylls]

Unfortunately, neither mending nor gentle repose work the way your DM appears to be letting you.

1) Mending works on objects not creatures.
"This spell repairs a single break or tear in an object you touch"
2) Gentle repose PREVENTS a body from becoming undead.
"You touch a corpse or other remains. For the duration, the target is protected from decay and can't become undead."

A zombie is also not a corpse it is an undead creature. So if you use it before it becomes undead you can't create the zombie and if you try to cast it after it is no longer a corpse or other remains ... it is an undead.

So, no, you don't have stoic guards, you have stinking corpses with wounds that are obviously undead. (or at least that is how I would interpret the rules ... )

Meh. I can still Mend the corpse first, and use fresh ones. As an adventurer, there's bound to be easily accessible and fresh corpses everywhere. Also, livery and Prestidigitation can cover wounds and improve smell.

That SHOULD suffice for a stricter DM who says that a zombie isn't a corpse. A zombie is literally an animated corpse. I know rules wise it's a creature, but that's incredibly boring.

[jdolch]

I agree that you also should do away with all your pets. Honestly they are probably the biggest problem. Not because of how strong they make you (which is a problem in itself) but because they get actions. I can only imagine how the others at the table feel if a combat looks like this:


PC1 action
PC1 bonus-action
Your action
Your hasted action
Your bonus action
PC2 action
Your zombie1 action
Your zombie2 action
Your zombie3 action
Your zombie4 action
Your zombie5 action
PC3 action
PC3 bonus action
Your horse action
PC4 action
Your familiar action


When it should look like this:


PC1 action
PC1 bonus-action
Your action
Your bonus action
PC2 action
PC2 hasted action
PC3 action
PC3 bonus action
PC4 action
PC1 action
PC1 bonus-action
Your action
Your bonus action
PC2 action
PC2 hasted action
PC3 action
PC3 bonus action
PC4 action


Do you see the Problem? If i would split this down to attacks instead of actions, it would probably look even worse. Now adding a whole bunch of EnemyX attacks You doesn't solve the problem. It exacerbates it.

[Malifice]

If I were the OP's DM here is how I would roughly build an adventuring day for him:

Premise. The OP (and his party) need to stop a BBEG from performing a daemonic ritual by midnight or else [sufficiently bad thing happens]. The PCs arrive at the dungeon with Midnight in 3 and a half hours (providing enough time for half an hour of adventuring and 3 short rests, or 1 and a half hours of adventuring and 2 short rests).

Encounter 1: 2 x Mages (change slots per long rest to 4/3/2, remove 4th and 5th level spells, reduce CR to 4), 6 x Cultists, 1 x Brute leader (use stats of Orog, double the HP, using greatsword, increase bonus to hit to +7, has the Leadership trait of a Hobgoblin warlord, CR increases to 3)

Tactics: The mages fireball the OP's minions, counterspelling any attempt to stop them. They then resort to magic missiles, again targetting the minions.

Encounter 2: 1 x Hellhound pack lord (Hellhound but double HP, add +1 extra to hit, AC, saves and skills, increase all damage dice by +1 step, increase CR to 4) 2 x Hellhounds.

Tactics: Packlord senses the OP as a rival and concentrates on him. The others go for the rest of the party. Breath weapons again try to cover as many PCs as possible.

Encounter 3: 3 x Cultists, 1 x Cult fanatic (swap command for Bless), and 1 x flickering Hezrou (as a Hezrou but has been corrupted by the forces of the Abyss, and is under the effects of a constant Blur spell. Can cast Misty Step as a bonus action, with a 5-6 recharge)

Tactics: Hezrou targets the OP. Cult fanatic casts bless on Cultists who go after the other PCs.

Encounter 4: 1 x Glabrezu and 6 x Cultists

Tactics: The CR 9 Glabrezu targets the OP (sensing his power) opening up with a Power Word Stun, then closing in and wailing on him, while the Cultists go the other PCs.

Encounter 5: 1 x Horrid Nalfeshnee (change Wisdom save for Horror Nimbus to a Charisma save as it targets the targets 'soul fear', add 1 legendary resistances and 1 legendary actions: it can be spent on either Teleport or Claw attack)

Tactics: It just goes ape****, teleporting around and using its horror nimbus and then rip and tear.

Encounter 6: 1 x BBEG (Use Drow Mage stats with Ring of Protection +1, increase AC to 16, add counterspell and absorb elements remove witchbolt and alter self, double HP, Increase Int to 18, increase Save DCs to 15 and spell attack bonus to +7) 6 x Cultists, 2 x Cult fantatics (as above) 1 x Brute (as above).

Tactics:Fanatics, Brute and Cultists (blessed and relying on leadership) target the PCs, while the BBEG goes after the OP.

That should be a fun little adventure.

[OldTrees1]

If I were the OP's DM here is how I would roughly build an adventuring day for him:

-snip-

That should be a fun little adventure.

AL is short for Adventurers League. The DMs run AL modules/hardcovers rather than building adventuring days.

That said your tactical advice can be applied if generalized to the encounters in the modules/hardcovers. You essentially suggest big enemy fights OP while diverse group of weaker enemies fights the party. Splitting the party and doing uneven focus fire without doing all out focus fire.

For AL that sounds like
1) Examine encounter
2) Increase 1 foe CR to account for APL. That foe focuses on the OP (directly or indirectly through the OP's minions)
3) Adjust the rest of the encounter to work independently while they attack the rest of the party
4) Expect the party to react to this tactic (no plan survives contact with the enemy)

[Unoriginal]

Meh. I can still Mend the corpse first, and use fresh ones. As an adventurer, there's bound to be easily accessible and fresh corpses everywhere. Also, livery and Prestidigitation can cover wounds and improve smell.

That SHOULD suffice for a stricter DM who says that a zombie isn't a corpse. A zombie is literally an animated corpse. I know rules wise it's a creature, but that's incredibly boring.

Limiting the "I just walk into town with my Undead squad lol" mentality isn't boring.

You'd need skeletons in full disguise to avoid the issues.

[KorvinStarmast]

When it should look like this:


PC1 action
PC1 bonus-action
Your action
Your bonus action
PC2 action
PC2 hasted action
PC3 action
PC3 bonus action
PC4 action
PC1 action
PC1 bonus-action
Your action
Your bonus action
PC2 action
PC2 hasted action
PC3 action
PC3 bonus action
PC4 action


Do you see the Problem? Bravo, I like the way you spelled out a solution rather than just addressing a problem.

[Tanarii]

In the rules and an AL guide, it does state that creatures and familiars, respectively, can atunement to items at the cost of a players atunement. However, it is DM discretion that they can use the item. A familiar is linked to oneself, so it is reasonable to say that it could use an item

Additionally, the ring just says that the attuned creature can cast the spell. I'm pretty sure there aren't stipulations (AfB).This is an EAW stretch, and the OP character is lucky to have an AL DM letting him get away with it.


Every DM I've had has it go on my initiative as otherwise it would bog down the game greatly.All of your DMs are house-ruling. As is any AL DM allowing familiar to just take it's actions on the DMs turn. It's an oft-ignored rule that can (but does not necessarily) contribute to familiars being a bit OP.

[Grear Bylls]

Bravo, I like the way you spelled out a solution rather than just addressing a problem.

Agreed. Good analysis

[stoutstien]

I don't play AL at all but this seems like a easy fix. I know AL run published material and all but I don't think it be a big deal to add a sub encounter to keep this character busy while the rest of the party has there fun.
Any npc with any respectable aoe is going to wreck the minions in short order (and stun the player if the fimilar gets hit) a cleirc could turn/destroy undead and then cast sanctuary. Next round could drop a protection form good/evil to take care of the fimilar and summoned stead. Now let the fun begin.

[Dark Schneider]

My familiar uses the Ring to give me Haste and proceeds to fly away
I think you are doing this wrong. Your familiar DOESN'T cast the spell, so it cannot concentrate on it. It's YOU the caster but your familiar DELIVERS it. So you are the one using the ring, and the one casting the spell. The familiar CANNOT do those things, it only DELIVERS.

Finally, when you Cast a Spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an Attack roll, you use your Attack modifier for the roll.
So remove that Haste from your formula, or cast on yourself and lose it when lose concentration. Also, remove the spells casted by familiar from the ring, as it requires your action, even if casting from the familiar position (that is the purpose).

If your DM decides to overpower the familiar, then we have found one of the problems. There could be more, but try 1st using it as expected.

[jdolch]

I think you are doing this wrong. Your familiar DOESN'T cast the spell, so it cannot concentrate on it. It's YOU the caster but your familiar DELIVERS it. So you are the one using the ring, and the one casting the spell. The familiar CANNOT do those things, it only DELIVERS.

So remove that Haste from your formula, or cast on yourself and lose it when lose concentration. Also, remove the spells casted by familiar from the ring, as it requires your action, even if casting from the familiar position (that is the purpose).

If your DM decides to overpower the familiar, then we have found one of the problems. There could be more, but try 1st using it as expected.

I disagree. No, make that: strongly disagree.


Finally, when you Cast a Spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an Attack roll, you use your Attack modifier for the roll.

That is a completely different case. YOU (using your action) cast a spell THROUGH your familiar, who uses it's RE-action to act as a conduit for your will.

In the case with the ring, you don't cast anything (maybe you did at one point but not then and there). The spell that is stored in the ring is activated. How would you even know when to concentrate and on what? That makes no sense. Suppose you don't give the ring to your familiar. You give it to some guy you met, who helped you out and you reciprocated by gifting him the Ring. The guy one day decides to use the spell, while he is a hundred miles away from you and hasn't spoken to you in month. Now suddenly you feel the urge to concentrate on something? Nope, sorry. That does not make any logical sense whatsoever and is practically impossible. The guy/your familiar are the ones activating the spell and they are the ones that have to concentrate on holding it stable.

They are basically granted a one-shot spellcasting ability by the ring. The power that is stored in the ring goes through them and gets impregnated with purpose by their will and then flows out into the world. They are the ones who have to mentally concentrate on holding that purpose firmly in their mind. Hence they have to concentrate on it.

[Dark Schneider]

No. The familiar delivers, which means it "moves" the spell to its position, using its reaction. From that to "the familiar can cast by its own" there is a huge difference.

About the ring, it requires usage from an attuned character. The familiar can't do that, as familiars cannot use items or even attune with it.

I think we found one big problem is the so freely interpretation of rules, assuming always the over the best scenario for them. How is described the familiar, and how is used, including using items not attuned to it.

The ring description is concise, nothing about all that energy flowing things are mentioned. Anyone can store spells, using its level, CD and attack bonus, but for all the other is like if the one using the ring (the attuned one) casted the spell, and that includes concentration.

[jdolch]

No. The familiar delivers, which means it "moves" the spell to its position, using its reaction. From that to "the familiar can cast by its own" there is a huge difference.

Sorry, but i don't think you understand how the familiar works either.


Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch,
your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the
spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and
it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast
it.


"when" means "at the time you cast the spell." As in "on your action"
"as if" means "all the other Rules apply." In this case this ESPECIALLY means that the familiar must be within touch range of the target when (meaning at the time) you cast the spell.
"within 100 feet of you" means when (at the time) you cast the spell, the familiar needs to be within 100 feet of you and within touch range of the target.
"deliver" in this context does not mean the bird takes the spell and flies over to something. This all happens on your action, when you cast the spell. That is why the familiar has to use its reaction, because it is not the familiars turn and so it can not move anywhere. If the spell would prompt an out-of-turn reaction-movement for the familiar, the spell would need to state precisely how far the familiar can move, what happens if it comes into the Opportunity Attack range of other creatures, etc. It doesn't do that, because that is not how this works.


You can disagree with this if you want. But this is how this works. Just because it uses the word deliver (which in english has several meanings, for example "to deliver a blow") doesn't mean the bird throws on a fed-ex uniform and gets into a van.

And none of it has anything at all to do with a ring.

As for the Attunement, familiars are creatures and creatures can attune to magic items. (see DMG 138). Also there is a twitter post of Jeremy Crawford (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/820088767864111104). In this he says:


The magic item attunement of your companions has no effect on the number of items you can attune to

This implies that your companion can, in fact, attune to a magic item.

[Dark Schneider]

You can turn the words all you want, but that is not the meaning. Trying to get postal meaning to "deliver" word is not exactly what I though.

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/09/21/if-a-familiar-casts-a-spell-is-it-a-seperate-concentration/

The one casting the spell is YOU, in any case. So you cast the spell through your familiar, and that is the meaning of "deliver", and of course is not free, it requires its reaction. So deliver means "channeling power through", not "it cast for you".
I think the "to deliver" and "when you cast" is clear who does each thing.

About attune, it could, or could not. Notice that he does not mention familiars can do it.

The magic item attunement of your companions has no effect on the number of items you can attune to
The requirement is that it must be able to do the task, just like when helping. Can an owl attune an item? Look at its stats, if can achieve that action, and decide. So he talks about "companions", as they could be of any type.
Notice this:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/06/imp-factotum/

That's up to your DM. Nothing in the game says an imp or a sprite familiar can't activate a magic item.
Those types could, because they are capable. A beast can use an item?
Looking at stats, the imp has INT 11, so we could determine easlity that kind of tasks requires creatures of at least INT 8, the min for humanoid characters. The owl has INT 2. You could determine other values, instead.
Activating magical items requires some activation way, that I think it would require some reasoning for fulfilling the task, not present on beasts.

[jdolch]

You can turn the words all you want, but that is not the meaning. Trying to get postal meaning to "deliver" word is not exactly what I though.

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/09/21/if-a-familiar-casts-a-spell-is-it-a-seperate-concentration/

The one casting the spell is YOU, in any case. So you cast the spell through your familiar, and that is the meaning of "deliver", and of course is not free, it requires its reaction. So deliver means "channeling power through", not "it cast for you".
I think the "to deliver" and "when you cast" is clear who does each thing.

What are you even talking about? None of this has anything to do with the use of a spell stored in a ring! Of course if you cast a spell directly through your familiar you have to be the one concentrating. That's what i said two posts ago and it STILL. HAS. NOTHING. TO. DO. WITH. USING. A. RING.


About attune, it could, or could not. Notice that he does not mention familiars can do it.

The requirement is that it must be able to do the task, just like when helping. Can an owl attune an item? Look at its stats, if can achieve that action, and decide. So he talks about "companions", as they could be of any type.
Notice this:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/06/imp-factotum/

Those types could, because they are capable. A beast can use an item?
Looking at stats, the imp has INT 11, so we could determine easlity that kind of tasks requires creatures of at least INT 8, the min for humanoid characters. The owl has INT 2. You could determine other values, instead.
Activating magical items requires some activation way, that I think it would require some reasoning for fulfilling the task, not present on beasts.

None of that says a familiar can't attune. None of it. In fact
Nothing in the game says an imp or a sprite familiar can't activate a magic item. directly contradicts your point of view. "Sprite or Imp" are examples here, not exclusions of everything else. And all familiars are spirits anyway. It doesn't matter if they are in the form of an Imp or a Sprite or a groundhog. A familiar is a celestial, fey or fiend. Yes maybe the concentration of your familiar is very tenuous because its stats are bad. That may be. But that's a tactical problem, not a rules problem.

The only requirement of attunement is that it is a creature, which a familiar is. There is nothing about it having to have minimum stats, the ability to speak or anything like that.

The DM has the say as to the question if a particular familiar (or any creature for that matter) is able to attune to or use a specific magic item. This is a case by case decision, up to the DM. Nothing in the rules says it can't be done.

And sorry, but your argumentation doesn't make any logical sense since you continue to not only misinterpret stuff but also continue to confuse casting through a familiar with using a magic item. So just ask your DM and whatever he says is how you play the game. If what i already posted on the topic doesn't convince you, nothing will, so do what you want, but you're still wrong.

Edit: Finally found the Text passage i was looking for:


I think you are doing this wrong. Your familiar DOESN'T cast the spell, so it cannot concentrate on it.

is directly contradicted by this


The spell uses its normal casting time,
range, and duration, and the user of the item must
concentrate if the spell requires concentration.

The User in this case is the familiar. Case closed.

[Grear Bylls]

@Dark Schneider, I think you're misunderstanding how the familiar and Haste are being used. I'll try sand be clear with my words:

My familiar is attuned to a Ring of Spell Storing.
I previously had the Haste spell cast into the Ring of Spell Storing.
A per Ring of Spell Storing, my familiar can cast Haste from the ring.
When my familiar casts the spell, it concentrates on it.
I AM NOT USING MY FAMILIARS ABILITY TO DELIVER SPELLS WHEN I USE THE RING OF SPELL STORING
I'm using the ring of Spell Storing.

In fact, to prove my point, change every instance of "familiar" to "ally"

BTW, I don't mean to sound harsh, but I'm trying to highlight the portion of your argument that is irrelevant.

[Schopy]

As we are discussing that Ring of Spell Storing, i think my last question regarding it was overlooked. Can you use it to give all of your party members a Warhorse via the paladins Find Steed?

[jdolch]

As we are discussing that Ring of Spell Storing, i think my last question regarding it was overlooked. Can you use it to give all of your party members a Warhorse via the paladins Find Steed?

I am pretty sure you can do that. This is kinda balanced by a few things:

1. The Paladin must expend a lot of spell slots to load the Ring.
2. The Ring usually has a capacity so you usually can't just store that many spells in it, which isn't a huge deal if you just hand it back and forth, BUT:
3. Everybody who wants to use it must attune to it.
4. Most use of the Find Steed is a War Horse and you can buy them anyway.

That being said, it is kinda an abuse and the Find Steed War Horse is better in a few ways and if i am not mistaken the Find Steed Companion is actually just a better familiar.

[Grear Bylls]

As we are discussing that Ring of Spell Storing, i think my last question regarding it was overlooked. Can you use it to give all of your party members a Warhorse via the paladins Find Steed?

My bad. I could've, and I asked the table, but no one else wanted to do so

[Ganymede]

This thread is still happening?

[Keravath]

I am pretty sure you can do that. This is kinda balanced by a few things:

1. The Paladin must expend a lot of spell slots to load the Ring.
2. The Ring usually has a capacity so you usually can't just store that many spells in it, which isn't a huge deal if you just hand it back and forth, BUT:
3. Everybody who wants to use it must attune to it.
4. Most use of the Find Steed is a War Horse and you can buy them anyway.

That being said, it is kinda an abuse and the Find Steed War Horse is better in a few ways and if i am not mistaken the Find Steed Companion is actually just a better familiar.

The ring typically has a limit of 5 spell levels.
Each casting of Find Steed requires 2 spell levels.
When a spell is cast from the ring it is gone. Casting it uses up the stored spell.
If the ring already has Haste (3 levels) stored in it. The it can only have one Find Steed spell stored.
Find Steed only summons one steed for the caster.

So ... short answer is no. You can't use the one find steed spell stored in the ring to get steeds for your entire party.

Of course, a paladin is welcome to use up 6 (or however many) level 2+ spell slots to provide Steeds for the entire party by casting the spell into the ring and allowing each party member to attune to the ring in turn and cast the spell. This particular ring with a 1 minute attunement time is particularly susceptible to this abuse but it does use up many of the paladin's spell slots which they probably won't want to do .. unless they have the spell slots to spare and will be immediately able to take a long rest.

Using find greater steed (4th level spell) to summon up a herd of pegasi or gryphons for the party by passing this ring around might be more amusing :)

[Whit]

Taidoppler is right in post 1. Your over powered by 4 lvls and magic items. No reason for that character to be in the game. If your character was with an equal lvl party he would be average

[Schopy]

The ring typically has a limit of 5 spell levels.
Each casting of Find Steed requires 2 spell levels.
When a spell is cast from the ring it is gone. Casting it uses up the stored spell.
If the ring already has Haste (3 levels) stored in it. The it can only have one Find Steed spell stored.
Find Steed only summons one steed for the caster.

So ... short answer is no. You can't use the one find steed spell stored in the ring to get steeds for your entire party.

Of course, a paladin is welcome to use up 6 (or however many) level 2+ spell slots to provide Steeds for the entire party by casting the spell into the ring and allowing each party member to attune to the ring in turn and cast the spell. This particular ring with a 1 minute attunement time is particularly susceptible to this abuse but it does use up many of the paladin's spell slots which they probably won't want to do .. unless they have the spell slots to spare and will be immediately able to take a long rest.

Using find greater steed (4th level spell) to summon up a herd of pegasi or gryphons for the party by passing this ring around might be more amusing :)

I think it's way less of an abuse if it benefits the whole party instead of a single char who normally wouldn't have access to that spell. ☺ But it seems not everyone wanted in on it (or didn't want to feel indebted to Mr. Vonvidüre).

[jdolch]

Keep in mind that Find Steed has no time limit. If you have the time and are under no direct danger there is basically no downside to getting an intelligent (INT6), perfectly loyal, telepathically connected War Horse for everybody and their mother. Then just hit the sack and go adventuring in the morning.

By the way: There usually is no rule that says it has to be a Horse. You can have a pack of ~5 Wolves scouting ahead.

[Ganymede]

Keep in mind that Find Steed has no time limit. If you have the time and are under no direct danger there is basically no downside to getting an intelligent (INT6), perfectly loyal, telepathically connected War Horse for everybody and their mother. Then just hit the sack and go adventuring in the morning.

By the way: There usually is no rule that says it has to be a Horse. You can have a pack of ~5 Wolves scouting ahead.

The main obstacle is Adventurers' League, which limits downtime as a spendable resource. An AL DM could look at this course of action, call it downtime masquerading as adventuring, and charge downtime days as detailed in "Downtime: Spellcasting Services."

[Dark Schneider]

I AM NOT USING MY FAMILIARS ABILITY TO DELIVER SPELLS WHEN I USE THE RING OF SPELL STORING

Can an owl use magical items? Discuss that with your DM. The owl has INT 2, to use items they require some kind of activation, that requires some reasoning, the official POV is that "companions" can attune, notice that, companions, and the other official sentence talking about is "an imp or sprite can do it", these both have INT 11 and 14.

The official POV does not declares more specific because that is DM dependant, but it is clear that the requisite, as always, is that the creature must be capable of doing by its own, so beign a familiar does not make it special and able to do things they were not capable before. So it is not familiar or non-familiar, is what creature is using it.

Each one is free to determine their values, in my case I have clear that beasts have not the reasoning for activating items.
And honestly, think about it, an owl using a magical item? Do you really see it feasible? And concentrating on a spell?! :O

But be careful about all this "allowing better scenario", like an owl using a magical item, as like you already noticed, will get unbalance easily in your games. Not rare beign so permissive and putting at the best side of things.

Also, as note, remember that Haste only allows to do 1 extra attack, not a full attack action:

That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action.

Also you forgot to mention the Warcaster feat, required to cast with both hands occupied (as you use GWM you use 2-handed weapons and Booming Blade), I suppose you got it.

[n00b]

Also you forgot to mention the Warcaster feat, required to cast with both hands occupied (as you use GWM you use 2-handed weapons and Booming Blade), I suppose you got it.

I can't speak to the other things regarding familiar but it has been ruled that you can hold a 2-handed weapon with just 1 hand can use the other for casting.

According to PHB Errata:

Two-Handed (p. 147). This property is relevant only when you attack with the weapon, not when you simply hold it.

[Dark Schneider]

I can't speak to the other things regarding familiar but it has been ruled that you can hold a 2-handed weapon with just 1 hand can use the other for casting.

According to PHB Errata:

Two-Handed (p. 147). This property is relevant only when you attack with the weapon, not when you simply hold it.
You can hold it, but not use it that round. If you want to attack and cast you need Warcaster, if the spell has S component. So be careful if you attack that round and need to use your reaction for a spell with S component, you couldn't. The same for casting spells as bonus action. Fortunately for attack Booming Blade has no S component.

[n00b]

You can hold it, but not use it that round. If you want to attack and cast you need Warcaster, if the spell has S component. So be careful if you attack that round and need to use your reaction for a spell with S component, you couldn't. The same for casting spells as bonus action. Fortunately for attack Booming Blade has no S component.

It's been covered in Sage Advice. You can still cast reactions.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/835199365375385603?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sageadvice.eu%2F2017%2F03 %2F02%2F2-weapon-casting%2F