Check my math? PA Pounce + Know Devo + Rhino Rush

[bean illus]

I'm not really asking for build suggestions, but things like 'you should take that class first' or 'that class is e7', then thanks.
CC3/CI4/W1/SotMI3/OCh1/Brb1/F2

I'm looking for confirmation on my math, so these concepts can be used on any build. I've read, but wonder about consensus on errata, broken/etc, or my misunderstanding.

* Knowledge Devotion: Local
Can i make it do this?*

12+3, +1 int, +2 int magic, +2masterwork, +5 skill item =25
25% +3, 25% +4, 50% +5

How much cost? Other advice?

* PA routine with Pounce:
2d4+4 +4KD +(6str x1.5) +(10Bab/shockx2)

= 9 + 4 + 9 + 20 = . . . 42 full attack+cleave
Leap attack x100% = 84
Rhino rush x100% = 168 for first swing? 126?

... or do i get to add 3x to full attack+cleave?

* I have this in mind:
Free quick reconoiter, Immediate neverskitter, Know Devo, rage, swift rhino's rush, charge, PA

Is that the right order? Can it all be done? Can abrupt jaunt be added, or must it be traded for neverskitter?
Advice?

* Probable Feats:
Combat reflexes
Improved initiative
Quick Reconnoiter: Listen 5, spot 5
Power attack: Str 13, -
Leap Attack ChA: PA, Jump 8
Great Cleave: Str 13, Cleave, PA, bab+4
Improved Bull Rush: PA, STR 13
Shock Trooper CW: Imp Bull Rush, PA , bab +6

What 1-2 martial feats are 'must have' for later?

[FauxKnee]

I'm not really asking for build suggestions, but things like 'you should take that class first' or 'that class is e7', then thanks.
CC3/CI4/W1/SotMI3/OCh1/Brb1/F2

Your post is pretty unclear, both in what you're looking for from the community and what your starting position is. Telling us you don't want build suggestions but do want advice is murky at best, and the class abbreviations are not easy to parse. (I assume CC is cloistered cleric, W is wizard, and the last three levels are barb and fighter. The remaining levels are a mystery to me.

That said, for a pounce / power attack build, when you dip a low bab class (like cloistered cleric or wizard) you want to make sure you're getting value for it. (For obvious reasons, this is less concerning if you use fractional bab, which I wholeheartedly recommend to everyone.)



* Knowledge Devotion: Local
Knowledge Devotion applies to all knowledges, not just one of them. You just need to make the skill checks based on the type. A common understanding (even accepted by the RAW-master Curmudgeon) is to allow the Collector of Stories skill trick from Complete Scoundrel to grant a +5 bonus on this check.


Can i make it do this?*

12+3, +1 int, +2 int magic, +2masterwork, +5 skill item =25
25% +3, 25% +4, 50% +5

How much cost? Other advice?

I have no idea what you're getting at here. You have a 15 level build stub planned, so the 12+3 is a little perplexing. Normally I would assume skill ranks, but that's an odd way to say "15 ranks" if you're any level other than 12. As a bit of an aside, I would encourage you to put in 2 more ranks and ditch the masterwork tool bonus-- the idea of a tool that you can instantly (without any action, even on another's turn use to aid your knowledge rubs some people the wrong way.


* PA routine with Pounce:
2d4+4 +4KD +(6str x1.5) +(10Bab/shockx2)

= 9 + 4 + 9 + 20 = . . . 42 full attack+cleave
Leap attack x100% = 84
Rhino rush x100% = 168 for first swing? 126?

... or do i get to add 3x to full attack+cleave?

If you're using a two-handed weapon with Power Attack and Leap Attack, you would add +4 damage for each point of penalty. (2 points for the base effect of power attack with a 2h, 2 points for the benefit of leap attack.) Leap attack applies to the power attack damage, not the total attack damage.
That should bring your single-hit, non-crit, average damage (without Rhino's Rush) to 62. Your BAB is apparently 10 so your full attack is only two swings (unless you abuse the wording of pounce to mean a full attack after a regular charge attack.) With Rhino's Rush (which only applies to the first attack, again, unless you read things very charitably) your total damage from your charging pounce is 62 * 3 = 186 if everything hits. Note that as a multiplication effect, the Rhino's Rush damage will stack additively on a critical hit.


* I have this in mind:
Free quick reconoiter, Immediate neverskitter, Know Devo, rage, swift rhino's rush, charge, PA

Is that the right order? Can it all be done? Can abrupt jaunt be added, or must it be traded for neverskitter?
Advice?

Nerveskitter is just a regular first-level spell like any other. There's no reason you'd have to give up Abrupt jaunt to use it.

[Saintheart]

I have no idea what you're getting at here. You have a 15 level build stub planned, so the 12+3 is a little perplexing. Normally I would assume skill ranks, but that's an odd way to say "15 ranks" if you're any level other than 12. As a bit of an aside, I would encourage you to put in 2 more ranks and ditch the masterwork tool bonus-- the idea of a tool that you can instantly (without any action, even on another's turn use to aid your knowledge rubs some people the wrong way.

He's likely cited skill ranks that way as a function of the maximum ranks you can pull: level +3, i.e. level 12 +3 = 15. So right there his calculations might be out unless he's looking to save 3 skill ranks to fail at climbing things.

As for his build, I translate it like so:


CC3/CI4/W1/SotMI3/OCh1/Brb1/F2

Cloistered Cleric 3 / Church Inquisitor 4 / Wizard 1 / Seeker of the Misty Isle 3 / Ordained Champion 1 / Barbarian 1 / Fighter 2.

And assuming that's correct, right on that one I can't see any earthly reason to take three levels in Seeker of the Misty Isle as opposed to one, especially given it's an elf-only entry. The second and third levels give you nothing but more spellcasting, unless there's some specific shenanigan in mind here I'd knock those two levels out and take something else. Hell, two levels in fighter taken earlier and he's got Ruby Knight Vindicator on the cards. My guess is that we're pulling extra domains for good old Persistent DMM Roflzilla. EDIT: Derp, he put his probable feats right there. Which, to take Ordained Champion, is missing Weapon Focus, since that's not granted automatically by Seeker of the Misty Isle - only proficiency with all martial weapons, unless of course there's a War domain hiding away somewhere further down.

[Mato]

I'm not sure what he means either but I understand this part.

168 for first swing?
And that looks like a dragonborn fighter 6 / lion totem barbarian 1 that started with 18 str. Took battle jump, leap attack & headlong rush in his normal feat slots and power attack, improved sunder, & shock trooper for bonus feats. Using a +1 valorous halberd and a wand of rhino rush during a dive and it should hit for 5d10+170 on it's first attack without using whirling frenzy.

But part of me wants to try and say he is using a 15th level build and knowledge devotion. So that's probably not it.

[bean illus]

Your post is pretty unclear, both in what you're looking for from the community and what your starting position is. Telling us you don't want build suggestions but do want advice is

I appreciate your help. The build is almost inconsequential to the post, and i could have left it out, and i did try to say my PA, KD formulas were my concern (PA means power attack, and KD knowledge devotion).
Guess i shouldn't have assumed everybody was familiar with cleric prcs.


That said, for a pounce / power attack build, when you dip a low bab class (like cloistered cleric ...

Clerics have extended divine power, but of course you're right.


Knowledge Devotion applies to all knowledges, not just one of them. You just need to make the skill checks based on the type. ...

A common understanding ... Collector of Stories skill trick from Complete Scoundrel to grant a +5 bonus on this check.
Yeah, but I'm only talking about one skill. They are bought/used separately. I don't want to ask about 5 items, just one.
Nor did I mention collector of stories.



I have no idea what you're getting at here. You have a 15 level build stub planned, so the 12+3 is a little perplexing. Normally I would assume skill ranks, but that's an odd way to say "15 ranks" if you're any level other than 12.

? It's absolutely possible to have 12 +3(int) ranks at any time after 12th level. Your 1st obvious) idea was right. I seem to have distracted you with things that have little to do with the PA math.


... the idea of a tool that you can instantly (without any action, even on another's turn use to aid your knowledge rubs some people the wrong way.


It is strange that in a world of dragons, greater anyspell, teleport, intimidation skill, hide-in-plain-sight, and where every other 5th level fighter can break the world record long jump ... that paying someone to ink notes on your sleave is near impossible. But sure, always ask the dm.



If you're using a two-handed weapon with Power Attack and Leap Attack, you would add +4 damage for each point of penalty. (2 points for the base effect of power attack with a 2h, 2 points for the benefit of leap attack.) Leap attack applies to the power attack damage, not the total attack damage.

Ahh, yes. Leap only doubles the PA bab damage. Thanks.


Your BAB is apparently 10
You are allowed any number between 1 and full bab on pa.



... unless you abuse the wording of pounce to mean a full attack after a regular charge attack.) With Rhino's Rush (which only applies to the first attack, again...) your total damage from your charging pounce is 62 * 3 = 186 if everything hits. Note that as a multiplication effect, the Rhino's Rush damage will stack additively on a critical hit.
Like this?

PA routine
2d4+4, +4 kd +(8str x1.5) +(10 Bab

PA: = 2d4+4, +4kd + 12str + 20 = 45
Leap 2d4+4, + 4kd + 12str + 40 = 65
Rhino rush x 100% . . . . . . . . . . = 135

Critical x2 = 270
Iterative .. = 45



Nerveskitter is just a regular first-level spell like any other. There's no reason you'd have to give up Abrupt jaunt to use it.

I was asking if you can have 2 immediate actions. Is AJ considered an immediate? Are you allowed more than one?

[tyckspoon]

I was asking if you can have 2 immediate actions. Is AJ considered an immediate? Are you allowed more than one?

Immediate actions borrow against your next Swift. If you're using it during your turn, it's basically the same as using a Swift action. If you're using it off-turn as an interrupt, then it uses the Swift action from your next turn. Nerveskitter is kind of weird in this, in that it's an Immediate action you use before you ever actually take a turn; so when you Nerveskitter for initiative, on your actual turn your Swift has already been used. But then as soon as you complete your turn and the initiative advances you can use an Immediate again, which will take up your next turn's Swift action.. which means you can use Abrupt Jaunt to dodge an attacker or reposition if you need to.

[bean illus]

Cloistered Cleric 3 / Church Inquisitor 4 / Wizard 1 / Seeker of the Misty Isle 3 / Ordained Champion 1 / Barbarian 1 / Fighter 2.

And assuming that's correct, right on that one I can't see any earthly reason to take three levels in Seeker of the Misty Isle as opposed to one, ...

he's got Ruby Knight Vindicator on the cards. My guess is that we're pulling extra domains for good old Persistent DMM Roflzilla. EDIT: Derp, he put his probable feats right there. Which, to take Ordained Champion, is missing Weapon Focus, ...
Correct on the build. Cloistered war domain. The incomplete decision on CI/SotMI has to do with 12-14 levels, or full 20 which is probably seeker.


part of me wants to try and say he is using a 15th level build and knowledge devotion. So that's probably not it.
You folks are build junkies.
You didn't address any of my questions, lol. Don't worry, the build is forthcoming.


Immediate actions borrow against your next Swift. ... so when you Nerveskitter for initiative, on your actual turn your Swift has already been used.

Well that's too darn bad, 'cause i wanted neverskitter with rhino's rush. ...

Thanks for the clarification.

[Mato]

You folks are build junkies.
You didn't address any of my questions, lol. Don't worry, the build is forthcoming.Well part of it is I'm not sure what you're asking. But in a way I manged to indirectly list some ways to increase your damage as well as provide an example to check your math.

A halberd deals 1d10 damage so the 5d10+170 tells you I multiplied it by x5 (fyi I should have done x6, this is an error on my part). So if you back track through the build you can see how D&D applies multipliers, two x2s equal an x3, and how the errata's update on leap attack work out. With it's 22 str it has a +6 bonus to damage, or half that and rounded down to +9 with a two handed weapon, and a +1 enhancement bonus giving it +10 damage per normal hit. Next it applies it's +6 BAB to damage and doubles it for two handed to +12. Leap attack's +100% doesn't use the multiplier scale (or 6x2x2=6x3) but fully doubles the value to a +24 unnamed bonus to damage. More simplified, 1d10+34x5 = 5d10+170.

Since I forgot rhino's rush through, it actually as an x6 damage modifier(diving+jump+headlong+valorous+rhino) and it deals 6d10+204 with it's first attack, I apologize for messing up the multiplier.