Icy spell mods

[Malapterus]

I am thinking, mostly for flavor, of reskinning some spells to ice spells.

An example would be Hold Person. The effect would be the same, but the flavor would be that they are (harmlessly) flash-frozen solid and encased in a layer of ice.

The only mechanical changes might be that the school changes, it gains the cold subtype, creatures vulnerable to fire don't get a save, and creatures immune to cold are immune to this.

Do you think this would warrant making it a higher level spell or is it still pretty even?

[JNAProductions]

3.5, I assume?

Probably be a level higher, as a guess. The ability to deny saves is good.

[rferries]

Flavour-wise would probably be Evocation or Conjuration (conjuring ice around the targets), or maybe even Abjuration.

How were you thinking of altering the saves (from hold person's Will save)? A Reflex save to avoid being encased, then a Reflex/Fortitude save or Strength check each round to wriggle from the ice?

I don't think [Fire] creatures should fail automatically (after all, they take extra damage from [Cold] spells but don't automatically fail their saves). Maybe a -4 penalty to their saving throws, though?

If there's no radical mechanical change from hold person, then it should be fine at the same level. Though a better starting point would be hold monster - why would ice care if it was forming around a humanoid or not? :)

EDIT: You could use chill metal as a baseline for adding in some cold damage, and maybe look at freezing sphere too for encasing effects.

[DuctTapeKatar]

I wouldn't just reflavor or modify spells. You may as well go all out for this.

Like...

Cold Snap
Evocation
Casting Time: 1 Action
Components: V S M (An icicle or small block of ice)
Duration: Up to 1 minute
Choose a humanoid that you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Dex saving throw or be encased in a magical block of ice, effectively paralyzing them. At the end of each of its turns, the target can take a strength saving throw. On a success, they break free from the ice.

If the target takes 3+(1/caster level) points of fire damage, the block of ice is melted, and the target is freed.




It's basically the same spell, but by adding the 'ice' flavor, you can take it in numerous mechanical directions. Strength-based instead of wiz, is freed by fire, etc. You could have so much fun with this (as long as you make sure that the spells function right and don't break the game).

[Malapterus]

I always sort of felt that the whole fire/cold thing was backwards. Instead of anathema, I feel like they should resist each other. I mean, it's easier to boil a cup of water than an ice cube. Hitting me with your freeze ray should be -less- effective if I am super hot already (I am).

I guess we could say that the creature needs heat in its system more than other creatures, but really, unless the creature is made of ice, I think it'd be harder to burn a white dragon than a blue one.

[rferries]

I always sort of felt that the whole fire/cold thing was backwards. Instead of anathema, I feel like they should resist each other. I mean, it's easier to boil a cup of water than an ice cube. Hitting me with your freeze ray should be -less- effective if I am super hot already (I am).

I guess we could say that the creature needs heat in its system more than other creatures, but really, unless the creature is made of ice, I think it'd be harder to burn a white dragon than a blue one.

This is a general theme in DnD, that creatures are aggressive against (yet vulnerable to) their elemental/alignment opposite - e.g. [Evil] outsiders can overcome the DR of [Good] outsiders, but their own DR is vulnerable to [Good] weapons. Of course, that doesn't explain why water elementals have Drench but aren't particularly vulnerable/resistant to fire attacks...

I think the remorhaz is the only creature that makes "biological" sense in that context - a creature native to a cold climate that uses a heat-based attack against the fire-vulnerable [Cold] creatures it is likely to encounter.

[Vogie]

As long as you don't add any other riders to the spells, there's little reason to stop someone from Refluffing things.

Even the Pyromancer (UA) sorcerer bloodline could be transposed into a cryomancer, and the new Circle of Spores Druid could be refluffed into a Blizzard Druid.

[jqavins]

I guess we could say that the creature needs heat in its system more than other creatures, but really, unless the creature is made of ice, I think it'd be harder to burn a white dragon than a blue one.I think the idea is that heat or cold (as applicable) is fundamentally part of its nature, so when the opposite is applied, when the creature's nature is directly countered, it is extra vulnerable. Sure it's easier to boil water than ice with a fire spell, but it's easier still to just melt the ice, and the melting is all it takes to hurt the ice creature.

As for ice flavoring existing spells, in many cases there needn't be any change at all except "special effects". Switching from a Will save to a Ref save for Ice Person makes sense, yet I'd say that even this much of a change is the exception and not the rule.


Ice Missile: As Magic Missile, but the projectiles are large hail stones.
Ice Armor: As Barkskin, the the target is protected by enchanted sheets of ice.
Snow Cloud: As Fog Cloud, but (harmlessly) colder.
Igloo: See Tiny Hut.
Ice Barrier: As Blade Barrier, but blades of force are replaced by a mix of blades made of ice and stabby-stabby icicles.

And so on.