Effective ways to get a shield bonus to AC with a monk

[King of Nowhere]

exactly what it says in the title.
By this time, everyone else in the party can afford an animated shield for a relatively low price, and get a nice boost to AC. Can a monk get something? if I read it correctly, an animated shield still interferes with monk abilities. There is the ring of force shield, I'm not sure if it interferes with monk abilities, but it's only a meager +2. Getting a permanent shield effect as per the spell would be a +4, but susceptible to be dispelled; we don't use persistency sheanigans at our table anyway.
What else?

[daremetoidareyo]

A riding shield, an exotic saddle (A&EG), and a sentient small or tiny buddy to ride the monk into battle as a mount.

[heavyfuel]

Wand of Shield + UMD

Persistent Shield is a lv 5 spell. Should be affordable to get an item of it if you were considering an Animated Shield

A 1/day item of it should cost 22k if I got my math correct, and it follows the main rule for custom magic items which is having a similar price to existing items. A +2 animated darkwood heavy shield offers +4 Shield Bonus and no ACP for just over 16k, so paying 22k for a dispellable, non upgradable item of +4 AC bonus sould be perfectly fine (though animated shields are super cheap imo and I houserule them to be a +5 bonus instead of +2)

[RedMage125]

Doesn't a Mithril Buckler have no Armor Check Penalty? So using a +5 Mithril Buckler gets you a fairly cheap +6 Shield Bonus to AC. But since a monk is not proficient in shields, he takes the (-0) penalty to all his attack rolls.

[AnimeTheCat]

Feat intensive method, two weapon defense and improved two weapon defense.

[heavyfuel]

Doesn't a Mithril Buckler have no Armor Check Penalty? So using a +5 Mithril Buckler gets you a fairly cheap +6 Shield Bonus to AC. But since a monk is not proficient in shields, he takes the (-0) penalty to all his attack rolls.

Technically correct (and if we're using mithril, we might as well go Heavy Shield for 1 extra AC). Though there is this bit:


When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.

[Maat Mons]

Trade all of the monk class features that say they don't work with a shield for alternative class features that don't say that?

Play some sort of monk / sorcerer / abjurant champion / enlightened fist build?

Wear armor and a shield, and don't sweat the loss of wis to AC, fast movement, and flurry of blows?

Play an unarmed-variant swordsage?

[heavyfuel]

Trade all of the monk class features that say they don't work with a shield for alternative class features that don't say that?

Well, this works by RAW, but I don't think many DMs would allow for it.


Play some sort of monk / sorcerer / abjurant champion / enlightened fist build?

Play an unarmed-variant swordsage?

These things aren't Monks. They don't answer OPs questions

[Maat Mons]

A multiclass monk is still a monk. And the last one was a joke.

Monk 17 / Sorcerer 1 / Abjurant Champion 2 allows you to cast Shield as a swift action, and gain a +6 bonus from it.

[RedMage125]

Technically correct (and if we're using mithril, we might as well go Heavy Shield for 1 extra AC). Though there is this bit:

Well, that applies to using an animated shield, then, too.

Looks like shield spell or ring of force shield is best bet.

[heavyfuel]

A multiclass monk is still a monk. And the last one was a joke.

Arguable.

A Swift Hunter Scout X/C. Cleric 1/Ranger X doesn't play like a Cleric, even if he has a single level in Cleric. This character can't solve the party's clerical needs effectively (healing HP, healing other things, buffing, removing debuffs, summoning, controlling undead, etc)

If I ask for advice for a Fighter and you say "Take 2 levels in Fighter for the Bonus feats and then 18 levels in Warblade" I won't really be playing a Fighter. I'll be playing a Warblade that dipped Fighter for Bonus Feats.

Saying "Go play another class" is dumb advice, especially for someone like King of Nowhere who clearly knows of these classes and chose not to take them.

As for it being a joke, well, it's hard to tell with writing. There are honest suggestions like that.

[Fizban]

The cheap RAW item you're probably looking for is the Drow House Insignia (Drow of the Underdark). 1/day 1st level spell with cl 5, for far less than the formula price would give out cl 5. They set the caster level at 5th because there are three different versions up to 3rd level spells, so the umbrella entry using the MiC format sets them all to cl 5, nice job *eyeroll*. There's a list of "typically" contained spells, which already includes Shield. You can easily afford to buy however many you want, just like the underpriced Healing Belt.

The alternative I would use is to get the DM to fix the monk class, the most important part of which is their lack of AC turning them into punching bags instead of dodgy kung-fu masters. I use 2 +1/2 level (+wis) for the total monk bonus, which never stacks with any form of armor or shield bonus except Bracers of Armor (or Monk's Clothes of Armor). This means their "armor" bonus starts out at leather and ends up at super ultra plate, with a standard enhancement formula item to boost it, and the wis bonus shouldn't scale past +9 or +10 pre-epic, making it go from heavy shield to +5 tower shield in value.

[Jack_Simth]

exactly what it says in the title.
By this time, everyone else in the party can afford an animated shield for a relatively low price, and get a nice boost to AC. Can a monk get something? if I read it correctly, an animated shield still interferes with monk abilities. There is the ring of force shield, I'm not sure if it interferes with monk abilities, but it's only a meager +2.
Personally, I tend to be lenient with such things with pure-classed Monks (but your mileage may vary, ask your DM). You might also ask if you can get Magic Vestments on it from a UMD'd wand (at high caster level, of course).

Getting a permanent shield effect as per the spell would be a +4, but susceptible to be dispelled; we don't use persistency sheanigans at our table anyway.
What else?
Are custom items up for consideration? Shield is a 1st level spell with a minutes/level duration. In theory, the Estimation Section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) says it's either spell level * caster level * 2,000 gp * duration modifier = 1 * 1 * 2,000 gp * 2 = 4,000 gp, or it's "AC bonus (other)" at bonus squared * 2,500 gp = +1 Shield AC for 2,500 gp, +2 Shield AC for 10k, +3 for 22.5k, +4 for 40k (and so on).

[Maat Mons]

A Swift Hunter Scout X/C. Cleric 1/Ranger X doesn't play like a Cleric, even if he has a single level in Cleric.

Monk 7 / Sorcerer 1 / Abjurant Champion 2 / Enlightened Fist 10 is a whopping 17 levels of monkly-goodness. Just 3 levels of dipping to get a +6 shield bonus as a swift action.

And if you don't like Enlightened Fist, take more monk levels. Or take levels in one of the many other prestige classes that gives continued advancement of Monk abilities.

I figured you may as well go Enlightened Fist, but it's not mandatory. The Sorcerer 1 / Abjurant Champion 2 dip still does it's job of ensuring you'll have a +6 shield bonus to AC even if you never wind up gaining access to 2nd-level spells.

[Zaq]

Partially charged Wand of Shield + UMD

Fixed. Pretty sure that’s how Monks are supposed to work. Pretty sure.

That’s still funny, right? I think so, at least.

[animewatcha]

Closest thing would be manople. Give up feat for proficiency if you wish to retain AC for attack with it ( otherwise, you can just not attack with it ). It's a weapon that can be treated like a shield ( and not be a shield ). +1 shield bonus to ac. Is a gauntlet you were over your hand that is a sai with 3 blades or something IIRC. Your hand cannot be used for anything whether it is carrying things within it, casting spells or using skills. So you have magic gloves ( like of the uldra ). Just wear the manople OVER it. By RAW, it isn't a shield and doesn't violate monk ac bonus. I coulda sworn there was another weapon, but couldn't find one that fit this criteria.

[Petrukio]

Wand of Shield + UMD

Another variant of this (and the one that I use for my monk): Wand of Shield (or scrolls if your DM is a stickler), a compatriot with one level or more of arcanist, bloodrager, investigator, magus, occultist, psychic, sorcerer, spiritualist, summoner, or wizard (or, yes, someone with a good chance at a DC 21 UMD check), and a Cracked Vibrant Purple Prism Ioun Stone (http://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Ioun%20Stone%2 0Vibrant%20Purple%20Prism) for 2,000gp. Instant one-minute duration of Shield any time the monk wants it at the cost of one standard action. Just add casting at some point before combat - even days, weeks, or months beforehand.

[noce]

A class says "you can wear pretty much nothing", people take it and then come here asking how to wear the things they cannot wear.
Monk is not a class, is a trap. The answer is you should avoid it.

[emeraldstreak]

Shield (UMD, Dragonmarked), Force Screen (tattoos, UPD, Hidden Talent). Both of these could be made into a custom continuous item.

[emeraldstreak]

All the newbies who **** on the Monk aren't contributing. OP had a specific question.

[King of Nowhere]

The alternative I would use is to get the DM to fix the monk class, the most important part of which is their lack of AC turning them into punching bags instead of dodgy kung-fu masters. I use 2 +1/2 level (+wis) for the total monk bonus, which never stacks with any form of armor or shield bonus except Bracers of Armor (or Monk's Clothes of Armor). This means their "armor" bonus starts out at leather and ends up at super ultra plate, with a standard enhancement formula item to boost it, and the wis bonus shouldn't scale past +9 or +10 pre-epic, making it go from heavy shield to +5 tower shield in value.

We are not particularly high in optimization, and I am the best optimizer of the party - I picked a monk also to avoid overshadowing other players, though I also had a nice backstory in mind. Plus I got some goodies when we freed a godlike being and he granted us all something wish-like.
Long story short, my character is pretty effective, and does not need any boost. I could not ask for one with a straight face.
It's just that I have a bunch of extra money and I bought all the cheap items, and I was wondering if there was a way to tap into that nice potential source of AC.

So, it seems I will have to look for a custom-made item. Eventually, cause 20thousand is still not that cheap at the moment.
thanks to everyone who gave meaningful answers.


A class says "you can wear pretty much nothing", people take it and then come here asking how to wear the things they cannot wear.

Well, the druid class says you can't cast spells when in animal form, and yet there isn't a single druid who's not casting while wildshaped. Oh, and the rules say that you can't cast in antimagic field, but guess what, there are ways to do just that. And persistent spell says you have to use a slot 6 levels higher, but a lot of people do it for free.
in this game, "you can't do x" simply means "you have to find a circuitous route"; possibly spend a feat or buy a specific item.


Monk is not a class, is a trap. The answer is you should avoid it.
I am having plenty of fun playing monk, and would not trade it with anything else, thanks.

[ThatMoonGuy]

I don't know what's your table's opinion on Pathfinder material, specially 3party Pathfinder material but Monk of the Silver Fist can get shield bonus to AC when wearing a gauntlet (even a rope gauntlet).

[Silly Name]

Couldn't you ask the DM to not interpret the clause about using shields in a less stringent way? Yes, one could make the RAW argument that an Animated Shield would interfere with the Monk's abilities, but I think an argument can be made that RAI one could ignore that.

If that is a no, keep in mind that Animated Shields are susceptible to dispels, too, so getting a Permanent Shield spell isn't strictly worse. I am also pretty sure that a Ring of Force Shield shouldn't interfere with your monk features.

Does the bonus have to be of the Shield type? Since the Monk's armor bonus is untyped, you can add pretty much anything on it. Amulet of Natural Armor, Bracers of Armor and Ring of Protection don't give you a shield bonus, but they still increase your AC, and I would say a Ring of Protection is better than any shield since deflection bonuses apply to touch attacks as well.

[daremetoidareyo]

There is an exotic weapon that gives a shield bonus. I'm like 99% sure of it.

These might violate the prohibition on using a shield due to RAW. Manople from sandstorm. also dwarf buckler axe and gnome tortoise blade from races of stone.

This is absolutely RAW allowed: Sang Kauw from OA.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Monk 1 or 2 / psion or ardent X with force screen and inertial armor would get you more AC than you can shake a monk at.

[Xasten]

Well, that applies to using an animated shield, then, too.

Looks like shield spell or ring of force shield is best bet.

Even the ring of force shield functions like a shield, so no go.

[Silly Name]

Even the ring of force shield functions like a shield, so no go.

No, the difference is that the description of Animated Shield explicitely calls out that you incur the normal penalties for using a shield even if your shield is floating half a foot from you and you aren't physically carrying it. Thus, a case can be made that an Animated Shield would interfere with the "no carrying shields" clause of the Monk's Armor Bonus feature.

The Ring of Force Shield creates a weightless, encumbrance-free Wall of Force which grants a +2 AC bonus to the wearer. It can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a shield, but it clearly doesn't follows the normal rules for shields.

[RedMage125]

Even the ring of force shield functions like a shield, so no go.

Using a ring that creates an entirely weightless field of force that "functions like a shield" is not "using a shield". It is "using a ring".

Meanwhile, using a shield with the Animated property is still using a shield.

[mabriss lethe]

Not exactly what you want, since it isn't a shield bonus, and a bit cheesy, but a +5 Defending shuriken is rather inexpensive. (Iirc, defending doesn't have a melee only limitation, though the srd inexplicably calls it out as a sword in the description.)

[Thurbane]

In addition to what's already been mentioned:


Gnome Battle Cloak (exotic shield, RoS p.155): "not really a shield" - make of that what you will; although later in the description says "retrieved and readied just like other shields". Probably not going to count.
Phrenic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/phrenicCreature.htm) (template): force screen (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/forceScreen.htm) 1/day.
Twin Sword Style (regional feat, PGtF p.46): +2 shield bonus against one opponent.

[ericgrau]

Ring of force shield interferes with monk abilities because it acts like a heavy shield with no ACP nor ASF. However it may be activated and deactivated as a free action. So you could deactivate it at the start of your turn and activate it again at the end. Then it's only a problem with AoOs and readied actions against the monk.

Also:
Two weapon defense feat, +1 shield AC.
UMD scroll of shield before combat. Hard to make the check consistently but you can at least try. Only good if there's a buff round.
Likewise psionic tattoo(s) of force screen. Unlike potions, it doesn't prohibit personal spells, and unlike scrolls there's no UMD check. Hire an NPC to tattoo you.
dip for shield spell, or go enlightened fist. Later you can get a rod of lesser quicken to cast it faster.

[Fizban]

Long story short, my character is pretty effective, and does not need any boost. I could not ask for one with a straight face.
Fair enough. I'd say probably not use the DHI (Shield) then, 'cause DHI is a bit of a can of worms.

It's just that I have a bunch of extra money and I bought all the cheap items, and I was wondering if there was a way to tap into that nice potential source of AC.
What bonuses/items do you have specifically? I bet we could find some non-standard AC boosting items that aren't shields which you might not have yet.

[Jack_Simth]

Ring of force shield interferes with monk abilities because it acts like a heavy shield with no ACP nor ASF. However it may be activated and deactivated as a free action. So you could deactivate it at the start of your turn and activate it again at the end. Then it's only a problem with AoOs and readied actions against the monk.The problem is that one of the monk class features a shield interferes with is the Monk's AC bonus. If the +2 Shield to AC makes your +5 untyped to AC stop working... it wasn't worth the trade.

[Svata]

Eternal Wand of Shield,+ UMD

[Mordaedil]

The problem is that one of the monk class features a shield interferes with is the Monk's AC bonus. If the +2 Shield to AC makes your +5 untyped to AC stop working... it wasn't worth the trade.

I think the shield effect produced by the ring of force isn't a real shield, much like the armor granted by mage armor isn't real armor and can be used by monks unhindered.

I am really thinking of doing a gimmick character monk now that just dips into sorcerer for mage armor and shield and uses those to boost himself into acceptable AC bounds.

[Jack_Simth]

I think the shield effect produced by the ring of force isn't a real shield, much like the armor granted by mage armor isn't real armor and can be used by monks unhindered.As I said earlier: I tend to be lenient about such things with pure-classed monks.

However: I was responding to a post by ericgrau, who had settled on the opposite interpretation, and had a workaround for the problem (which doesn't actually work under ericgrau's interpretation).

[Mordaedil]

That's fair. The text for magic items isn't entirely clear either. It's kinda funny how they get almost always less attention than even spells in their wording.

[King of Nowhere]

Fair enough. I'd say probably not use the DHI (Shield) then, 'cause DHI is a bit of a can of worms.

What bonuses/items do you have specifically? I bet we could find some non-standard AC boosting items that aren't shields which you might not have yet.

Armor, deflection, natural. None is terribly high, but i'm not willing to spend more money into those for a meager +1 at the moment. I could buy a ioun stone for a further +1 insight, eventually. I'm not familiar with splatbooks, so those are the bonuses i know to tap.

P.S. what's DHI?

[heavyfuel]

P.S. what's DHI?

Drow House Insignia (Drow of the Underdark). 1/day 1st level spell with cl 5

[Fizban]

Ah, missed this response.

Armor, deflection, natural. None is terribly high, but i'm not willing to spend more money into those for a meager +1 at the moment. I could buy a ioun stone for a further +1 insight, eventually. I'm not familiar with splatbooks, so those are the bonuses i know to tap.
How about a Robe of the Vagabond (Complete Champion) for a bit of luck to AC and saves? And/or a Periapt of Valor from the same book for morale to AC and saves for even less (when you're at 1/2 hp)? Boots of Desperation (MiC) give a few rounds of speed and big dodge bonus per day, also at 1/2 hp. The Fleet Warrior's Array is decent to begin with, and after assembling the first two pieces you get +2 AC vs AoOs (though the +10 speed won't be useful for a monk).

Sacred is the other commonly named super bonus and there's probably at least one printed item that actually gives out a +1 or +2 and very little else, but usually you'll find that +1 or +2 as a "minor" effect attached to some big multi-function super item. The original Retributive Amulet (Book of Exalted Deeds) is the prime example, giving you +2 sacred to AC. . . and also splitting all the melee damage you take with your attacker (no save, and while it's pretty pricey it's not nearly pricey enough). If you can get your hands on one and fake being a member of the PrC, a Topaz Diadem is another +1 AC/+1 saves of the sacred variety. Vambraces of Warding (MiC) seem to also be updated from BoED, and became just +2 sacred vs ranged attacks.

P.S. what's DHI?
Heavyfuel was correct, the Drow House Insignia I mentioned on page 1. Shield is one of the worst offenders because it's in almost no other items (and personal range means it stays restricted), but basically any 1st level spell with CL scaling is just huge from there. Who needs a mythical "continuous" Mage Armor when you can get 5 hours for less than a Healing Belt? Why buy any item that has a low-level blasting effect when 5d6 Shocking Grasp, 5d4 Burning Hands, 3d6 Ray of Flame, or 3d4+4 Magic Missile is right there? Need guards that can support vs adventurers and monsters? Ray of Enfeeblement. Traveler's Mount (one of my own favorite hax). Magic Aura. Enlarge Person. Expeditious Retreat. Alarm. Entangle.

It turns out when you give carte blanche for anyone to have any spell at a cheap formula 1/day price, it's pretty strong for a bunch of aggressive spells even without a free 5x caster level to push tons of defensive and utility spells you wouldn't want 1/day at cl 1, into yes every time. Eternal wands still require some sort of qualification, and are only cl 1. But Drow House Insignia don't seem to have become popular, maybe because the people who would exploit that formatting cl boost would rather try to push through "formula" based items?


Incidentally, no one's mentioned the Shieldbearer spell (SpC). It grants a shield bonus "as if it was wearing the shield," but makes no mention of penalties or interactions. At 1 round/level and requiring a decent shield it's got nothing on the basic Shield spell, but it can be cast on other people and if you have a high bonus shield kicking around there are worse things to burn a 1st level slot on.

[RedMage125]

Ring of force shield interferes with monk abilities because it acts like a heavy shield with no ACP nor ASF.

Nope.

This.

I think the shield effect produced by the ring of force isn't a real shield, much like the armor granted by mage armor isn't real armor and can be used by monks unhindered.

More specifically, it is a "shield shaped plane of force" that hovers over the ring. Wall of Force is the spell used to make it. Monks do not lose their AC Bonus for "having a Shield bonus to AC", they lose it for 'using a shield", which means a proper shield.

[ericgrau]

That would be nice and it seems reasonable but "and can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC)" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#forceShield). Nothing in the rest of the description negates this nor its effects on monks, so it defaults to acting like a heavy shield. It is weightless, has 0 ACP, and 0 ASF per the description, but other than that it is a heavy shield.


When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.
Monk is using a shield and therefore loses bonuses. Yeah I forgot one of those bonuses is AC so the ring seems pretty useless for them. DMs are free to give a pass and it isn't a big deal, but that isn't RAI nor RAW.

Honestly it makes more sense than making an animated shield not work with monk class features, but it also doesn't work.

An enlightened fist could try [greater] mage armor / [greater] luminescent armor + quickened shield and do well. And I think there are ways to boost their AC further.

[Thurbane]

I don't think the RAW is 100% clear either way - I'd call this an "Ask your DM" scenario.

The Official FAQ seems to support it being treated as a shield:


Does the shield of force created by the ring of force shield (DMG 232) require a free hand to use, or can I use it when wielding two weapons or a two-handed weapon?
The item is silent on the issue, so the Sage believes it appropriate to assume that the ring’s shield functions just like a normal heavy shield (except for the lack of armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance). Thus, it requires a free
hand to gain the shield’s benefit.
Of course, a character wielding a weapon in that hand could activate the ring after making his attacks for the round thus gaining its benefit while enemies attack) and deactivate it at the start of his next turn (allowing attacks with that hand).
While you wouldn’t be able to use the shield hand to make attacks of opportunity while the shield was active, you’d otherwise be nearly as effectively protected as if the shield were active continuously.

[Eldonauran]

If Pathfinder material is allowed, there is a short feat chain: Shield Focus -> Unhindering Shield, which will allow you to use a buckler even as a monk.

[Petrukio]

If Pathfinder material is allowed, there is a short feat chain: Shield Focus -> Unhindering Shield, which will allow you to use a buckler even as a monk.

Good find, though they would have to have at least one other class level in one of the warrior-type classes or expend an additional feat slot. Shield Focus requires proficiency with shields, which monks don't normally get.

[RedMage125]

That would be nice and it seems reasonable but "and can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy shield (+2 AC)" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#forceShield). Nothing in the rest of the description negates this nor its effects on monks, so it defaults to acting like a heavy shield. It is weightless, has 0 ACP, and 0 ASF per the description, but other than that it is a heavy shield.


Monk is using a shield and therefore loses bonuses. Yeah I forgot one of those bonuses is AC so the ring seems pretty useless for them. DMs are free to give a pass and it isn't a big deal, but that isn't RAI nor RAW.

Honestly it makes more sense than making an animated shield not work with monk class features, but it also doesn't work.

An enlightened fist could try [greater] mage armor / [greater] luminescent armor + quickened shield and do well. And I think there are ways to boost their AC further.

That's not very convincing.

"As if it were a shield" =/= "is a shield"

Meanwhile "using an Animated Shield" = "using a Shield"

Just because it imitates a shield doesn't mean it IS one. Likewise, even if the monk does not touch or carry it (because it floats on its own), it is still an actual shield she is using.

[Segev]

In Spell Compendium is a spell called "shieldbearer." This can be cast for you by a friendly wizard, and it essentially gives you an animated shield, except that you expressly don't count as wielding it, yourself. You can also get an item that casts it for you, or has it active continuously.

I, personally, like an ofudo ward of shieldbearer: slap it on the inside of a shield, and the shield will float around and give you its bonuses. I believe shieldbearer is a first level spell with a duration measured in minutes per level, so a slotless continuous item of it would be 1x2000x2x2 = 8000 gp. Pricey, but you could cut that to 70% cost (5600 gp) if you make the ofudo ward usable by monks only.

Then you can apply it to any shield you want, making the shield's enchantments separately.