The Dragon Tortle

[Grear Bylls]

Hey all!

So I just finished up with stating out a Tortle Red Draconic sorcerer based around the dragon turtle, utilizing spells like burning hands/dragons breath, Fog cloud/stinking cloud, and other spells, mostly flavoring them as his steam breath or occasionally spitting lava. I have him stated out as follows:

Str 16, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 14
Lawful Evil, Pirate background.
Firebolt, Presto, Create Bonfire, and light for cantrips. Burning Hands and Fog Cloud for first level.

The background I had for him was he was one of the brutes on a Tortle pirate ship captained by a similar, more powerful Draconic Tortle. However, because they were all tortles, they could utilize their Hold Breath incredibly effectively, utilizing their ship as a rudimentary submarine (think the Flying Dutchman from PotC). Once they appear right behind a ship, the leader floods it with stinking cloud (the Tortles being immune), allowing them to very efficiently take out their target.

What do you guys think mechanics wise and conceptually. I was thinking about the ways a Tortle pirate would use his own unique abilities for personal gain.

Side note: i was think this Tortle would have inherited a long neck like a dragon and a snapping turtle body. Flavor wise, he bites instead of claws, and when he feels like grappling (and jumping overboard to droawn), he'd constrict with his muscular neck. Additionally, as a snapping Tortle, I figured he'd weigh a lot, but after looking up snapping turtle stats, he's realistically weigh (with the density of an alligator snapping turtle) nearly 1,500 lbs! What would you guys recommend, given that that would never work in game.

[Luccan]

Don't worry about a "realistic" weight. Given a Tortle couldn't realistically exist for a number of reasons, it's a weird line to draw and more trouble than it's worth. Follow the normal guidelines for Tortles in that department and you should be fine.

Beyond that, I like the concept. While I don't think there should be any problem with most of your fluff (steam and lava attacks still shouldn't be very effective underwater or vs fire resistant creatures anyway) I'd check with your DM before declaring it in game. Also, you might want to consider a good swim speed or other Dragon Turtle ability to replace your wings, with DM consent of course. Fits your theme better.

[Mr.Spastic]

I would ditch strength to get more con. As a sorcerer you don't tend to go into melee that much so getting you hp and spells better is more the way to go. I would recommend stats more like 10, 8, 15, 10, 14, 15. at level for take an ASI for 16 con and 16 cha. Otherwise it's pretty solid.

[Grear Bylls]

I would ditch strength to get more con. As a sorcerer you don't tend to go into melee that much so getting you hp and spells better is more the way to go. I would recommend stats more like 10, 8, 15, 10, 14, 15. at level for take an ASI for 16 con and 16 cha. Otherwise it's pretty solid.

I guess I forgot to mention this in the OP, but the plan was eventually dip into Conquest Paladin for a few levels (6? 7?) for some cool Draconic fear effects and the flavor of hoard wealth.

[Mr.Spastic]

I guess I forgot to mention this in the OP, but the plan was eventually dip into Conquest Paladin for a few levels (6? 7?) for some cool Draconic fear effects and the flavor of hoard wealth.

Oh! Well that changes things. Yeah, you're good then. I would still try for better con, maybe a 14 if possible.

[Grear Bylls]

Oh! Well that changes things. Yeah, you're good then. I would still try for better con, maybe a 14 if possible.

How would 16 S, 9 D, 14 C, 8 I, 12 W, 14 C look?

[Mr.Spastic]

How would 16 S, 9 D, 14 C, 8 I, 12 W, 14 C look?

That's looks better IMO. I just don't like wading into melee with very few hit points.

[Grear Bylls]

That's looks better IMO. I just don't like wading into melee with very few hit points.

I was eventually going to pick up the Tough feat, as it basically turns my D6 HD into a D12, with Tough and Draconic Resilience. On top of that, I'd also consider Elemental Adept as well as a bunch of ASIs to Charisma. Strength is more of an after thought.

[MagneticKitty]

Hey all!

....

What do you guys think mechanics wise and conceptually. I was thinking about the ways a Tortle pirate would use his own unique abilities for personal gain.

Side note: i was think this Tortle would have inherited a long neck like a dragon and a snapping turtle body. Flavor wise, he bites instead of claws, and when he feels like grappling (and jumping overboard to droawn), he'd constrict with his muscular neck. Additionally, as a snapping Tortle, I figured he'd weigh a lot, but after looking up snapping turtle stats, he's realistically weigh (with the density of an alligator snapping turtle) nearly 1,500 lbs! What would you guys recommend, given that that would never work in game.

Few issues your dm might have. Claw requires an empty hand, bite does not.. Might be cheesing.

Neck grapple is odd and neither dragons nor turtles do it. And also would not use the free hand grapple normally requires.

Otherwise I like the other abilities. Does feel like you put a lot of thought into it.

Make sure you ask your dm if evil pcs are allowed.

[Grear Bylls]

Few issues your dm might have. Claw requires an empty hand, bite does not.. Might be cheesing.

Neck grapple is odd and neither dragons nor turtles do it. And also would not use the free hand grapple normally requires.

Otherwise I like the other abilities. Does feel like you put a lot of thought into it.

Make sure you ask your dm if evil pcs are allowed.

Totally. These would just be flavor things. One hand is required for somatic components, so when he engages in melee, he would claw (flavor bite), so that he could still cast spells even if flavor wise it's all from inside his body.

The neck grapple is kind of inspired from the boa constrictor, and who says dragons wouldn't use this when fighting other dragons? Don't intend to sound rude, but, have you ever seen dragons fight in real life? If you have, please tell me where you live so I can see that too.

Thank you!

[MagneticKitty]

Totally. These would just be flavor things. One hand is required for somatic components, so when he engages in melee, he would claw (flavor bite), so that he could still cast spells even if flavor wise it's all from inside his body.

The neck grapple is kind of inspired from the boa constrictor, and who says dragons wouldn't use this when fighting other dragons? Don't intend to sound rude, but, have you ever seen dragons fight in real life? If you have, please tell me where you live so I can see that too.

Thank you!

Assuming they have the same flexibility as dinosaurs (our closest comparison) I don't think that they would be constrictors. Unless your universe has Chinese dragons. But dragons are fantasy critters.. So who knows. I've just not seen constrictor dragons be a common trope...also constricting usually requires more muscles then a neck has. (Snakes have very low percentage of neck and tail compared to body and actually constrict with their body, not neck) Snakes have to surround the entire creature at least once, and I don't know that your neck would be that long without being cartoony... But it's your character and you can do as you wish. People are gonna like different things. It's nice to see people not just play variant human or only half elf lol

[Grear Bylls]

Assuming they have the same flexibility as dinosaurs (our closest comparison) I don't think that they would be constrictors. Unless your universe has Chinese dragons. But dragons are fantasy critters.. So who knows. I've just not seen constrictor dragons be a common trope...also constricting usually requires more muscles then a neck has. (Snakes have very low percentage of neck and tail compared to body and actually constrict with their body, not neck) Snakes have to surround the entire creature at least once, and I don't know that your neck would be that long without being cartoony... But it's your character and you can do as you wish. People are gonna like different things. It's nice to see people not just play variant human or only half elf lol

Well said. I honestly thought snakes kind of had repeating muscle groups of different sizes, not different muscle groups in different parts of the body.

I also just envisioned a single wrap around the neck or arm and jumping into nearby water. But hey, some DMs will buy in, some wont

[Ganymede]

You really like making lawful evil characters.

If it hasn't been mentioned before, Tortles weigh an average of 450 lbs.



Side note: i was think this Tortle would have inherited a long neck like a dragon and a snapping turtle body. Flavor wise, he bites instead of claws, and when he feels like grappling (and jumping overboard to droawn), he'd constrict with his muscular neck.


This is not flavor, this is a straight mechanical upgrade. Being able to use your Tortle's enhanced unarmed attack with something other than your hands lets you attack and grapple with your hands occupied, which is strictly better than what Tortles normally get.

[Grear Bylls]

You really like making lawful evil characters.

If it hasn't been mentioned before, Tortles weigh an average of 450 lbs.

This is not flavor, this is a straight mechanical upgrade. Being able to use your Tortle's enhanced unarmed attack with something other than your hands lets you attack and grapple with your hands occupied, which is strictly better than what Tortles normally get.

Sometimes. It can be fun to be evil for four hours a week sometimes.

If I do not have an open hand, then yes. However, if I have an open hand and want to say I'm using my mouth/neck, while it s still mechanically using up my hand, then no, it would just be flavor.

Also, how many strictly "good" pirates are there? Who actually pirate and stuff.

[Luccan]

Also, how many strictly "good" pirates are there? Who actually pirate and stuff.

There were, historically, plenty of pirates who did their best to minimize bloodshed (though that may have been out of convenience, fewer dead bodies on both sides means better morale, a functional crew, and less of a target on your back). If you coupled that with targeting vessels from corrupt noblemen/merchants/countries and punishing the more bloodthirsty pirates, I could see argument for a sort of Robin Hood morality. CG leaning a bit toward CN. You don't even have to go full privateer (which could easily still be Lawful, even LN or LE), you take down villainous pirates as a service to the common man, not to any king.

[Grear Bylls]

There were, historically, plenty of pirates who did their best to minimize bloodshed (though that may have been out of convenience, fewer dead bodies on both sides means better morale, a functional crew, and less of a target on your back). If you coupled that with targeting vessels from corrupt noblemen/merchants/countries and punishing the more bloodthirsty pirates, I could see argument for a sort of Robin Hood morality. CG leaning a bit toward CN. You don't even have to go full privateer (which could easily still be Lawful, even LN or LE), you take down villainous pirates as a service to the common man, not to any king.

Hmmm. That's actually a really solid character concept right there. Id definitely try that sometime, but it doesn't really fit the concept I had.

This character is one I'm planning for AL (big shock) to wait for some other players to catch up to another character. For this character, I was thinking along the lines of "hired by Zhentarim to pirate, keeping gold and valuables, while giving cargo to Zhents. In turn, Zhents give sizable wealth". This would really fit with the hoarding aspects of dragons. I was thinking this character got crashed into the Sword Coast, losing his crew. He's now continuing as effectively hired muscle, even with Season 8s garbage rules. I have a way of bypassing this I think. You can keep gems and jeweler that has monetary value for flavor, as long as it provides no mechanical benefit. This character would probably take every coin he or the party was offered or found, for his "private hoard", with party consent. This hoard mentality explains why he wouldn't spend his gold, and provides some more flavor.