The Most Applicable Ranger?

[Luccan]

I've been trying to give the Ranger a fair shake lately, despite my misgivings with the class. Despite this, I've run into what I feel is one consistent problem: most of the class revolves picking from a limited and occasionally mutually exclusive lists of options, whether that be favored enemies, environments for Natural Explorer, or spells (and to some extent subclass, though everyone has to do that). So what I'm curious to know is, what does the Playground think the best choices are from among these many options, in the context of being relevant to the largest number of situations?

You don't necessarily have to restrict yourself to a specific build, feel free to ignore some of the limits placed on Rangers if you feel two choices are roughly equal, but please explain your choices somewhat. Don't assume a specific game or setting: I believe Rangers can be built quite well for a specific game where you have enough information, but I've played in several where the DM hasn't planned out the enemies or environments we'll be facing in a few levels and that can mess with favored enemy, spell, and terrain choices. In other words, this is a question of the best way to build a Ranger when you don't know what you'll be facing down the line.

[stoutstien]

Monster slayer.
Not the best but a very flexible spell list. Magic circle really strong
Lv 3 feature is like a free hunter mark that open concentration for other spells
Later lv features are good at shutting down caster and NPCs with at will teleport.

[djreynolds]

Archery style is awesome

Goodberry
Hail of thorns is a great spell
Pass without a trace is a real game changer + 10 stealth
Lightning arrow and any conjure spell, from creature to barrage are big

I like the Hunter, grab sharpshooter at 4th level just for the extra distance and later for +10 damage

8th&12th max dex

I grabbed forest at 1st level, underdark at 6th. I took half elf, 2 extra skills. I took outlander, athletics, survival, perception, investigation, arcana, and nature.

If you have a cleric spamming bless use sharpshooter.

After 5th level, you can dip cleric. I took knowledge and grabbed 2 more skills. Depending on the fight, for crowds I casted hail of thorns and vs BBEG I actually spammed bless.

[Man_Over_Game]

Hunter, Gloom Stalker, and Monster Slayer are universally good, with Monster Slayer being better against bosses (and thus, smaller parties), Gloom Stalker being good in stealth, and Hunter being good for filling in weaknesses in an evolving party.

Horizon Walker is still good, but its features might be campaign dependent. Beast Master is bad, but your DM might fix it up to make it a nice package, but still may be campaign dependent (better in natural campaigns).

For Favored Enemy, it'll always be humanoid. Chances are, you have a Paladin or a Cleric who are capable of dealing with undead or fiends. Beasts can often be dealt with by Druids. But there's nothing you'll see more than Humanoids.

For the Favored Terrain, it's a little more up-in-the-air. Underdark, Forest, Mountain would probably be the best order to go in, with Coast being a big contender if you're playing a naval game.

For Fighting Style, Archery is hard to beat. It's relatively difficult to improve damage on ranged attacks, which are generally more consistent and game changing than melee, due to the fact that it's effectively "free damage". Dueling is something I'd only recommend for a tanking Ranger (which I only recommend on Hunter or Horizon Walker).

There are a lot of options for spells, but generally utility will be big if you don't have a Druid, as you have some spells that few have access to, like Speak with Animals or Goodberries. Due to your low number of spell slots, I recommend only having 1 combat spell per slot level, like Hunter's Mark or Zephyr Strike.

[Mr.Spastic]

The best thing to help with the Favored Terrain/Favored Enemy better ask your dm what features heavily in the campaign world(for example, in Storm King's Thunder you want to pick giants)

For the other things...
I personally really love Horizon Walker. They better in melee due to their planar warrior ability. The increase at level 11 is great too. If you cast hunter's mark turn one, turn two you hit with weapon damage +1d6+1d8 and it's all force damage. I love their higher level stuff too. The get a one turn etherealness. Than you become Nightcrawler with the 10ft teleport. They also get the best spells in my opinion. Protection from evil and good, Misty Step, Haste, Teleportation circle.

[Man_Over_Game]

The best thing to help with the Favored Terrain/Favored Enemy better ask your dm what features heavily in the campaign world(for example, in Storm King's Thunder you want to pick giants)

For the other things...
I personally really love Horizon Walker. They better in melee due to their planar warrior ability. The increase at level 11 is great too. If you cast hunter's mark turn one, turn two you hit with weapon damage +1d6+1d8 and it's all force damage. I love their higher level stuff too. The get a one turn etherealness. Than you become Nightcrawler with the 10ft teleport. They also get the best spells in my opinion. Protection from evil and good, Misty Step, Haste, Teleportation circle.

I actually like Horizon Walker more. The others are so generic, it feels lazy. But I think the Horizon Walker is the most niche Ranger, and usually is bogged down into specific roles (as ranged OR a melee tank).

[GlenSmash!]

Gloomstalker Ranger shines in the first round of combat, and since all combats will have at least a first round, they will always get a chance to shine.

Defense Fighting style also helps regardless of what magic weapon you find and want to use.

Picking humanoid races for favored enemies gives more options, and very likely ones at that, though i find undead are common in a lot of campaigns too.

For terrain I would pick based on what adventure I'm playing, or just go with forest as my default.

[strangebloke]

Hunter, Gloom Stalker, and Monster Slayer are universally good, with Monster Slayer being better against bosses (and thus, smaller parties), Gloom Stalker being good in stealth, and Hunter being good for filling in weaknesses in an evolving party.

Horizon Walker is still good, but its features might be campaign dependent. Beast Master is bad, but your DM might fix it up to make it a nice package, but still may be campaign dependent (better in natural campaigns).

Hunter is the only martial who can really efficiently deal with large groups of people via volley and horde breaker. If you instead go for collossus slayer you'll be a solid if boring damage dealer. Overall, I really like the hunter and gloom stalker and those are the ones I keep coming back to.

Beast Master isn't actually horrible, it just feels that way. What people get is a meaty pet who will soak hits for them. What they expected was a second PC.


For Favored Enemy, it'll always be humanoid. Chances are, you have a Paladin or a Cleric who are capable of dealing with undead or fiends. Beasts can often be dealt with by Druids. But there's nothing you'll see more than Humanoids.

I mean, this is campaign dependent, but yeah. Unless your DM has called the game "Kill All Dragons" or something similar, you should pick humanoid.


For Fighting Style, Archery is hard to beat. It's relatively difficult to improve damage on ranged attacks, which are generally more consistent and game changing than melee, due to the fact that it's effectively "free damage". Dueling is something I'd only recommend for a tanking Ranger (which I only recommend on Hunter or Horizon Walker).

If your GM doesn't read JC's tweets, GWF gets a lot better. Hunter's Mark + greatsword + zephyr strike + GWM, and you reroll all 1s and 2s. Archery is still better, but there's at least a passing case for GWF, dueling, or defense.


There are a lot of options for spells, but generally utility will be big if you don't have a Druid, as you have some spells that few have access to, like Speak with Animals or Goodberries. Due to your low number of spell slots, I recommend only having 1 combat spell per slot level, like Hunter's Mark or Zephyr Strike.
good advice yeah. If you don't have a druid, the game changes a lot and suddenly pass without trace and healing spirit are your middle name. Rangers are definitely a more powerful pick in a group that doesn't have a druid.

[mephnick]

I actually like Horizon Walker more. The others are so generic, it feels lazy. But I think the Horizon Walker is the most niche Ranger, and usually is bogged down into specific roles (as ranged OR a melee tank).

The problem with Horizon Walker is that it's iconic abilities that everyone loves come WAY too late in development to be thematic. Planar Warrior is good, but basically a bland extra die of damage. You have to wait until level 7 to get anything uhh "Horizon-y" from the class, then level 11 to get the iconic ability everyone thinks about. That could take a year, if it ever comes at all. I'd never choose HW unless I was starting a game at a high level.

[Citan]

I've been trying to give the Ranger a fair shake lately, despite my misgivings with the class. Despite this, I've run into what I feel is one consistent problem: most of the class revolves picking from a limited and occasionally mutually exclusive lists of options, whether that be favored enemies, environments for Natural Explorer, or spells (and to some extent subclass, though everyone has to do that). So what I'm curious to know is, what does the Playground think the best choices are from among these many options, in the context of being relevant to the largest number of situations?

You don't necessarily have to restrict yourself to a specific build, feel free to ignore some of the limits placed on Rangers if you feel two choices are roughly equal, but please explain your choices somewhat. Don't assume a specific game or setting: I believe Rangers can be built quite well for a specific game where you have enough information, but I've played in several where the DM hasn't planned out the enemies or environments we'll be facing in a few levels and that can mess with favored enemy, spell, and terrain choices. In other words, this is a question of the best way to build a Ranger when you don't know what you'll be facing down the line.
Hi!

Well, as a disclaimer, I'm really wondering what are the aspects of Ranger that are downers to you, because, to put it in simple words, Ranger is the party teamplayer of all martials. Rogues *included*.
And this holds true easily up to level 10.

Past that, Rogues get Reliable Talent so everybody will let them do most skill checks, you can hardly beat that (considering, I suppose at least, some resource-consuming fights may simply be avoided thanks to sneaky thievery/kidnapping or expert negotiation to give some examples).
Besides that, Paladins, (Wolf) Barbarians are better tagteam characters than Ranger for melee frontline, first for Auras, second for providing advantage and taking hits. Past first few levels you can count Monks in too (with special case for Shadow who brings great sneak goodies even earlier than Ranger).
At highest levels, Paladins become the kings thanks to Improved Auras and Circle of Power... ^^
In short, other martials are better than Rangers in one or two specific areas, mainly the "manage melee frontline" one at that (except Rogues -> skills, and specific Shadow Monk -> stealth).

But only Ranger can bring so many universally useful spells from level 1 to 15.
- Fog Cloud: your entry ticket to stealth and battlefield tactics. Useful in many situations, greatly upscalable.
- Longstrider: your boasting Barbarian/Battlemaster heavy armor friend will be glad you buff him just enough to reach the more mobile enemies.
- Goodberry: never worry about party surviving (considering, as strange as may be, that it also takes care of thirst -although this may be DM dependent, not sure-), even in the harshest environments.
- Pass Without Trace: very few get this precious spell that instantly bring "moderate sneak challenge" to "easy peasy", or "make the impossible possible".
- Speak With Animals: you must not underestimate the huge potent of being able to befriend domestic and wild animals alike, although the true extent really depends on DM. ^^ Can be picked as ritual though, and available to several classes so chances are someone else has it.
- Darkvision: now your Variant Human player who boasted about Sharpshooter until y'all entered a dungeon sneakily can still do its magic. Of course, this spell is useless if everyone already has darkvision. ;)
- Healing Spirit: the new best thing in the healing market. In fight, can ensure a pals holding a frontline will *always* get his full turn. Outside fight, spares lots of time and hit dice.
- Silence: could be picked as a ritual, if nobody has it can do wonders in some stealthy situations too.
- Spike Growth: good at least to slow down (and possibly dissuade, or weaken enough for ally's AOE to finish) opponents, may become a powerhouse of additional damage paired with some characters (4E Monk, Repelling Warlock, Druids).
- Conjure Animals: that one spell that is even better than Polymorph, and a true class feature in itself. Need mules? Got it. Fast transport? Yep. Flying transport? Check (depending on party size or upcast though this one). Meatshields? Can do. Trackers? Of course. Spies? Certainly.
- Daylight: situational, completely skippable in some campaigns, lifesaver against creatures using darkness.
- Plant Growth: want to befriend a village / boost economy? Can do. Want to make a group of melee harmless for 1 to 3 rounds depending on distance? That too. Cares to facilitate an escape, and Conjure Animals would not last enough? 100 feet difficult terrain ought to give you a good enough of a head start.
- Water Breathing: another ritual that is still valuable to keep in most campaigns except the ones in barren land. Party lifesaver when traveling in boat along oceans, but can also enable unpredictable ways of entry/sneaking (walk along the waterfloor, great for your heavy armor Paladin who would have trouble swimming), or ways to rest (unless your DM pushes the verisimilitude with true life, you should have no problem staying one or several hours underwater -take care of needs with Goodberry ;)-).
- Water Walk: same, but different: I prefer Water Breathing overall for the added sneakiness/rest possibilities, but Water Walk has the big merit of allowing you to fight full capacity on water surfaces. So depending on party/campaign it may actually be a better pick.
- Wind Wall: a bit situational since unmovable but the greatest defense against archers. Although Rangers get it a bit later than casters, there should still be many situations in which it's useful, unless you're in an adventure that majoritarily resolves indoor/underground.
- Conjure Woodlands Beings: take the glory of Conjure Animals, add "conjured spellcasting" on top, enjoy.
- Freedom of Movement: situational, but can be great depending on enemies faced or party composition.
- Wrath of Nature: a strange and effective mix between Spike Growth and Ensnaring Strike, cast from a pretty decent range. What to ask more?

As you asked, I presented all the spells that are universally (or nearly ^^) useful to any kind of party. Didn't even speak of all self-buff spells that are useful too.

So, considering (sadly) the few numbers of spell known, for a "be good for all" Ranger, I'd simply pick Ritual Caster: Druid (or Bard) so I can learn, write and swap for other, spells that qualify as rituals. That way I can grab Speak With Animals, Silence, Water Walk and Water Breathing for minimal learning cost, as well as others later (and possibly extras).
As spells to keep known, I'd pick Goodberry, Pass Without Trace, Healing Spirit, Conjure Animals, Plant Growth. After that do as you like really (I fancy Zephyr's Strike myself especially for melee ranger ;) but Longstrider is always useful and can be used on others, contrarily to SZ).

As far as Favored Enemies go, obviously pick Humanoid as others said (goblins and orcs are my favorites, but obviously it depends). Except if you know your campaign will feature some kind regularly (like Elemental Plane -> elementals, King of whatever Thunder -> *dat race* etc).

For Terrain, I'd pick Forest first, then Mountain or Swamp. If only for the "no difficult terrain" penalty which I find more common in those environments. Although I'm sure any professional hunter would say "you're stupid to say forest, that's one environment when it's easiest to find tracks and foods, pick desert instead you moron!". Anyways.

On top of all that, you get Fighting Style, Extra Attack, free movement in non-magical difficult terrain (including terrain from friendly Earth Tremor / Erupting Earth or your own Plant Growth) and Hide as bonus action, although this one is fairly late it's still very useful.
Which makes you a pretty competent martial, that can switch from melee to ranged (especially if going DEX) as needed.

And then you enter archetype realm!
To address the elephant in the room first: Beastmaster is a very good archetype, but only after you got past level 7 at least, and preferably 11, with 15 being the definitive point at which it got much better than Hunter and possibly others (Shared Bond is gravvy).
But, most people don't play past level 6-7, even less past 10.
So let's take other options:
Hunter is overall nice for an archer (Horde Breaker and Escape The Horde), but admitedly the newer archetypes overshadow him.

Gloomstalker is the new favorite of many, and for good reason: you get easy to understand and make work benefits: Initiative boost, sneakiness boost, extra attack for fight openings, great exclusive spells (Rope Trick! Fear! Greater Invisibility!) and early WIS resilience (so like Rogue, for one Resilience, you can get proficient in all three "important" stats).

Horizon Walker has some arguments too: Misty Step and Haste are great spells for any character, and you later get features that make you one of the ultimate skirmishers.
Not only that, but the level 3 bonus action synergizes extremely well with spells like Lightning Arrow: of course the AOE effect won't be force damage, but I view it (not sure whether RAW is though because it's "special rule on special rule" so to be checked with DM) as the bonus action feature superceding the spell effect because it applies "after" in the timeline (make attack -> transform in lightning arrow -> transform in force) meaning that you can use it as nova damage against any enemy. Costly and not necessarily best use of slot, but sometimes it may be worth.

As far as "being adaptable to any party" goes though, the best is certainly Monster Slayer.
Paired with Pass Without Trace and Observant (or Find Familiar ritual from feat/Magic Initiate), you can stealthily track enemies and use lvl 3 feature to get crucial information on it, that you can then pass to your party so they prepare the best spells. Or use it in-fight and see what party currently has that can be used, works too.
Level 3 is a concentration-free Hunter's Mark, not bad either (especially paired with a Booming Blade in melee).
And higher level features make you more potent to take on dangerous enemies.
Only case where Gloomstalker is strictly better in the "teamplayer" area is if nobody has Rope Trick: that spell, although coming with limitations, is still a very potent way to enable a short rest in hostile environment.

[Luccan]

Hi!

Well, as a disclaimer, I'm really wondering what are the aspects of Ranger that are downers to you, because, to put it in simple words, Ranger is the party teamplayer of all martials. Rogues *included*.
And this holds true easily up to level 10.


I think my problem, so far, has been that yes, there are good options, but Ranger is a class built upon a limited number of options and not all of those options will be useful in many, even most situations. As you provide below and as others have stated in the thread, there are clearly better picks for things like Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer and even those can be, without intent, entirely nullified based on the adventure. Few classes are quite that limited



Past that, Rogues get Reliable Talent so everybody will let them do most skill checks, you can hardly beat that (considering, I suppose at least, some resource-consuming fights may simply be avoided thanks to sneaky thievery/kidnapping or expert negotiation to give some examples).
Besides that, Paladins, (Wolf) Barbarians are better tagteam characters than Ranger for melee frontline, first for Auras, second for providing advantage and taking hits. Past first few levels you can count Monks in too (with special case for Shadow who brings great sneak goodies even earlier than Ranger).
At highest levels, Paladins become the kings thanks to Improved Auras and Circle of Power... ^^
In short, other martials are better than Rangers in one or two specific areas, mainly the "manage melee frontline" one at that (except Rogues -> skills, and specific Shadow Monk -> stealth).


I understand other classes are better at specific tasks (especially frontline), it isn't exactly what I'm asking. I don't want "a Ranger that outshines other classes in their specialty", if anything the Ranger comes across as a pretty generalist class (in comparison to the Bard, it seems to trade spells for combat ability). I'm looking for something that contributes decently as often as possible despite the limits placed on their already limited ability selection.



But only Ranger can bring so many universally useful spells from level 1 to 15.
- Fog Cloud: your entry ticket to stealth and battlefield tactics. Useful in many situations, greatly upscalable.
- Longstrider: your boasting Barbarian/Battlemaster heavy armor friend will be glad you buff him just enough to reach the more mobile enemies.
- Goodberry: never worry about party surviving (considering, as strange as may be, that it also takes care of thirst -although this may be DM dependent, not sure-), even in the harshest environments.
- Pass Without Trace: very few get this precious spell that instantly bring "moderate sneak challenge" to "easy peasy", or "make the impossible possible".
- Speak With Animals: you must not underestimate the huge potent of being able to befriend domestic and wild animals alike, although the true extent really depends on DM. ^^ Can be picked as ritual though, and available to several classes so chances are someone else has it.
- Darkvision: now your Variant Human player who boasted about Sharpshooter until y'all entered a dungeon sneakily can still do its magic. Of course, this spell is useless if everyone already has darkvision. ;)
- Healing Spirit: the new best thing in the healing market. In fight, can ensure a pals holding a frontline will *always* get his full turn. Outside fight, spares lots of time and hit dice.
- Silence: could be picked as a ritual, if nobody has it can do wonders in some stealthy situations too.
- Spike Growth: good at least to slow down (and possibly dissuade, or weaken enough for ally's AOE to finish) opponents, may become a powerhouse of additional damage paired with some characters (4E Monk, Repelling Warlock, Druids).
- Conjure Animals: that one spell that is even better than Polymorph, and a true class feature in itself. Need mules? Got it. Fast transport? Yep. Flying transport? Check (depending on party size or upcast though this one). Meatshields? Can do. Trackers? Of course. Spies? Certainly.
- Daylight: situational, completely skippable in some campaigns, lifesaver against creatures using darkness.
- Plant Growth: want to befriend a village / boost economy? Can do. Want to make a group of melee harmless for 1 to 3 rounds depending on distance? That too. Cares to facilitate an escape, and Conjure Animals would not last enough? 100 feet difficult terrain ought to give you a good enough of a head start.
- Water Breathing: another ritual that is still valuable to keep in most campaigns except the ones in barren land. Party lifesaver when traveling in boat along oceans, but can also enable unpredictable ways of entry/sneaking (walk along the waterfloor, great for your heavy armor Paladin who would have trouble swimming), or ways to rest (unless your DM pushes the verisimilitude with true life, you should have no problem staying one or several hours underwater -take care of needs with Goodberry ;)-).
- Water Walk: same, but different: I prefer Water Breathing overall for the added sneakiness/rest possibilities, but Water Walk has the big merit of allowing you to fight full capacity on water surfaces. So depending on party/campaign it may actually be a better pick.
- Wind Wall: a bit situational since unmovable but the greatest defense against archers. Although Rangers get it a bit later than casters, there should still be many situations in which it's useful, unless you're in an adventure that majoritarily resolves indoor/underground.
- Conjure Woodlands Beings: take the glory of Conjure Animals, add "conjured spellcasting" on top, enjoy.
- Freedom of Movement: situational, but can be great depending on enemies faced or party composition.
- Wrath of Nature: a strange and effective mix between Spike Growth and Ensnaring Strike, cast from a pretty decent range. What to ask more?

As you asked, I presented all the spells that are universally (or nearly ^^) useful to any kind of party. Didn't even speak of all self-buff spells that are useful too.


Appreciated. The Ranger, unfortunately, can only learn a little over half of these, but that does give more room for customization while still remaining relevant to a larger number of situations



So, considering (sadly) the few numbers of spell known, for a "be good for all" Ranger, I'd simply pick Ritual Caster: Druid (or Bard) so I can learn, write and swap for other, spells that qualify as rituals. That way I can grab Speak With Animals, Silence, Water Walk and Water Breathing for minimal learning cost, as well as others later (and possibly extras).
As spells to keep known, I'd pick Goodberry, Pass Without Trace, Healing Spirit, Conjure Animals, Plant Growth. After that do as you like really (I fancy Zephyr's Strike myself especially for melee ranger ;) but Longstrider is always useful and can be used on others, contrarily to SZ).


Also a good bit of advice, since that does add utility. I'll slip this in here, since I just talked about utility: If I were doing a simple rewrite of the Ranger, I would give them Ritual Casting and Expertise (once at 3rd, like a Bard). They get so few spells and slots it seems like a fair way to natively up their utility, and they're clearly intended to be the third "skill monkey" in 5e, so the lack of Expertise (especially for Survival) has always felt weird to me.



As far as Favored Enemies go, obviously pick Humanoid as others said (goblins and orcs are my favorites, but obviously it depends). Except if you know your campaign will feature some kind regularly (like Elemental Plane -> elementals, King of whatever Thunder -> *dat race* etc).


Yeah, my main problem I've run into with Favored Enemy is that is extremely specific in addition to being significantly less useful if your DM assumes some baseline knowledge about common creatures. I'd also argue Foe Slayer comes at least 5 levels too late, but that's not really relevant here.



For Terrain, I'd pick Forest first, then Mountain or Swamp. If only for the "no difficult terrain" penalty which I find more common in those environments. Although I'm sure any professional hunter would say "you're stupid to say forest, that's one environment when it's easiest to find tracks and foods, pick desert instead you moron!". Anyways.


Fair enough




On top of all that, you get Fighting Style, Extra Attack, free movement in non-magical difficult terrain (including terrain from friendly Earth Tremor / Erupting Earth or your own Plant Growth) and Hide as bonus action, although this one is fairly late it's still very useful.
Which makes you a pretty competent martial, that can switch from melee to ranged (especially if going DEX) as needed.

And then you enter archetype realm!
To address the elephant in the room first: Beastmaster is a very good archetype, but only after you got past level 7 at least, and preferably 11, with 15 being the definitive point at which it got much better than Hunter and possibly others (Shared Bond is gravvy).
But, most people don't play past level 6-7, even less past 10.
So let's take other options:
Hunter is overall nice for an archer (Horde Breaker and Escape The Horde), but admitedly the newer archetypes overshadow him.

Gloomstalker is the new favorite of many, and for good reason: you get easy to understand and make work benefits: Initiative boost, sneakiness boost, extra attack for fight openings, great exclusive spells (Rope Trick! Fear! Greater Invisibility!) and early WIS resilience (so like Rogue, for one Resilience, you can get proficient in all three "important" stats).

Horizon Walker has some arguments too: Misty Step and Haste are great spells for any character, and you later get features that make you one of the ultimate skirmishers.
Not only that, but the level 3 bonus action synergizes extremely well with spells like Lightning Arrow: of course the AOE effect won't be force damage, but I view it (not sure whether RAW is though because it's "special rule on special rule" so to be checked with DM) as the bonus action feature superceding the spell effect because it applies "after" in the timeline (make attack -> transform in lightning arrow -> transform in force) meaning that you can use it as nova damage against any enemy. Costly and not necessarily best use of slot, but sometimes it may be worth.

As far as "being adaptable to any party" goes though, the best is certainly Monster Slayer.
Paired with Pass Without Trace and Observant (or Find Familiar ritual from feat/Magic Initiate), you can stealthily track enemies and use lvl 3 feature to get crucial information on it, that you can then pass to your party so they prepare the best spells. Or use it in-fight and see what party currently has that can be used, works too.
Level 3 is a concentration-free Hunter's Mark, not bad either (especially paired with a Booming Blade in melee).
And higher level features make you more potent to take on dangerous enemies.
Only case where Gloomstalker is strictly better in the "teamplayer" area is if nobody has Rope Trick: that spell, although coming with limitations, is still a very potent way to enable a short rest in hostile environment.

Solid arguments. That may well be Beastmaster's problem, it takes too long to really come online. You can be the best subclass ever, but if it's only for 5 levels and especially 5 levels that few people play, that's not going to help perception. Vanish would be a solid class feature if you got it at lower levels, I imagine that's why people like Goblins so much.

[Nhorianscum]

Any ranger 5 - Any cleric or druid 15 is probably the "most applicable" ranger. Plays well 1-20. No dead levels. All the ranger goodies and none of the tier 3 fall on neck. 3 attacks, exploration goodies, divinations, and 8th level spells.

(Ranger is perfectly fine single class in tier1 and 2. Even BM. I legitimately enjoy early BM along with ranger in general)

As far as favored terrain/enemy? Fiends of all stripes have the screwiest ability/resist suites while monstrosities are suprisingly common, and swamp/mountain are the terrains that natural explorer give the biggest boost in. (Ignoring setting specific choices).

Most applicable archetype is probably the humble BM. The other archetypes are far better in combat or in their element but controling 2 characters out of combat (and making tons of animal bro's) is better everywhere else.

[Citan]

I think my problem, so far, has been that yes, there are good options, but Ranger is a class built upon a limited number of options and not all of those options will be useful in many, even most situations. As you provide below and as others have stated in the thread, there are clearly better picks for things like Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer and even those can be, without intent, entirely nullified based on the adventure. Few classes are quite that limited

I understand other classes are better at specific tasks (especially frontline), it isn't exactly what I'm asking. I don't want "a Ranger that outshines other classes in their specialty", if anything the Ranger comes across as a pretty generalist class (in comparison to the Bard, it seems to trade spells for combat ability). I'm looking for something that contributes decently as often as possible despite the limits placed on their already limited ability selection.

Also a good bit of advice, since that does add utility. I'll slip this in here, since I just talked about utility: If I were doing a simple rewrite of the Ranger, I would give them Ritual Casting and Expertise (once at 3rd, like a Bard). They get so few spells and slots it seems like a fair way to natively up their utility, and they're clearly intended to be the third "skill monkey" in 5e, so the lack of Expertise (especially for Survival) has always felt weird to me.

Yeah, my main problem I've run into with Favored Enemy is that is extremely specific in addition to being significantly less useful if your DM assumes some baseline knowledge about common creatures. I'd also argue Foe Slayer comes at least 5 levels too late, but that's not really relevant here.


On the first paragraph, I hoped I illustrated that Ranger can actually be pretty versatile, in spite of little number of spell known, thanks mainly to the fact most spells can be used in various ways (especially Fog Cloud and Conjure Animals in my taste ^^). ;)

On the second, yeah, a Ranger would have trouble beating other classes at their main schtick, with that said it can be done. Not sure it's worth though, as often if you really want to play a heavy melee, why not pick a class made for that in the first place, right? ;)
But a Ranger with a few choices can be a very strong melee, although he won't be very good at tanking compared to others until he picks Sentinel.

On the third paragraph, those additions would certainly not break anything, although I'd either move down Expertise (not to eat too much into Bard/Rogue), or restrict it to one of class skills (same)...
But imo the best way to make it more usable is to simply double Favored Enemies choices. This may actually make it much more potent, but at least you won't struggle to pick whatever you suppose will it best.
OR even allow Ranger to retrain during downtime, by like spending a month or several surviving in that new environment. For the player stricto sensu it's painless (since downtime), but that gives more flexibility while anchoring the character into the world. Only limitation is adventures when time is a factor, but I'd say it's an acceptable limit, but to each his own taste.

On the last... That bit I 100% agree on, Foe Slayer is the one thing they should have pushed up far before level 10 or so. Or make it a bonus on both attacks and damage rolls, on every weapon attack you make during your turn.
With Vanish I have mixed feelings, it sure would be nice to have it earlier, but too early would certainly tiptoe Rogue. It would also supercede Hide in Plain Sight for most situations, although this one is actually more than a ribbon, especially if you pick Find Familiar or are Beastmaster too. People don't seem to realize that you can stack this *on top of Pass Without Trace* making you even better than the best Rogue at Hiding.
For a spy that has no problem staying put for a long time, it's a great way to spy.
If you have a familiar or Beast Sense cast on your beast as BM, you get one hour during which you can completely "enter" your familiar with extremely little risk as for your own body.
So if one wanted to push "up" Vanish in a homebrew, I'd argue he needs to push "up" Hide in Plain Sight too.

Combining that with your ideas, if you wanted a homebrew version of the Ranger, I'd suggest the following.

1. Favored Terrain + Enemy: keep texts as is but double choice (basically fuse lvl 1 and lvl 6).
6. Hide in Plain Sight and Land's Stride.
8. Foe Slayer, once per turn (not only yours ;)).
10. Vanish + another Favored choice.
14. Two other Favored Choices.
20. Improved Foe Slayer: bonus damage on every attack. If paired with Hunter's Mark, advantage on attacks.

This for some mix of ideas.

Another way to go (which I tend to prefer, but some people do dislike it because may involve more bookkeeping) is to make features "evolve".
Start from Favored Terrain / Enemy, picks 2.
Lvl 1. As current.
Lvl 3. As current + another choice.
Lvl 6. Land's Stride + Advantage on Stealth *only on favored terrains / against favored enemies*.
lvl 8. Hide in Plain Sight, Vanish on favored terrain, Foe Slayer (as is).
lvl 10. Additional choice, Disengage as bonus action on favored terrain. Use bonus action to get double proficiency on STR / DEX checks on favored terrain until start of your next turn.
lvl 14. Hunter's Mark provides advantage on attacks against Favored Enemies. +10 feet on favored terrain.
lvl 20. Half proficiency bonus on attack and damage roll against favored enemies. Advantage on DEX and STR saving throws on Favored Terrain.

Also as a final note...
When player fails that much at enjoying his character, I'd say it's in a good part his/her own fault for not asking/talking to DM (and possibly party) in session 0.
Because in exactly the same manner...
- An Illusionist can be screwed if he expected all kind of tricks and cheeses with illusions but find a very restrictive DM.
- A Warlock or Monk can be extremely frustrating if either DM or party push for long days or no short rests (or both).
- A Cleric may find half his rituals and his Divine Intervention severely lacking or simply bland if DM won't go any wider than "replicate Cleric spell" or does not try to make Augury / Commune work.

[CTurbo]

I like Gloom Stalker and Hunter the best.

Beastmaster would be in the middle.

Horizon Walker, Primeval Guardian, and Monster Slayer are completely and totally uninteresting to me.

I don't hate the class overall, but would definitely change a few things. Mainly too many features are completely DM dependent, and then the capstone is possibly the weakest of any class.

[stoutstien]

I like Gloom Stalker and Hunter the best.

Beastmaster would be in the middle.

Horizon Walker, Primeval Guardian, and Monster Slayer are completely and totally uninteresting to me.

I don't hate the class overall, but would definitely change a few things. Mainly too many features are completely DM dependent, and then the capstone is possibly the weakest of any class.

Weak capstones are the norm😀. Bard, ranger, rouge, and warlocks are all pretty lame.

The barbarian grins*

[GlenSmash!]

Weak capstones are the norm😀. Bard, ranger, rouge, and warlocks are all pretty lame.

The barbarian grins*

Since the actual value of a capstone is something I'll never experience, I tend to go by which ones are most inspiring rather than strong. IE which one I like to think about the most.

Barbarian and Paladin have some really inspiring Capstones. Among the weak ones, ranger is the one that inspires me the very least even though it's one of my top 3 favorite classes.

[stoutstien]

Since the actual value of a capstone is something I'll never experience, I tend to go by which ones are most inspiring rather than strong. IE which one I like to think about the most.

Barbarian and Paladin have some really inspiring Capstones. Among the weak ones, ranger is the one that inspires me the very least even though it's one of my top 3 favorite classes.

Agreed. Lots of flavor and little meat. The revised version is all meat and lost all the flavor. I dont envy the design teams job of post print ranger clean up.
Rangers shouldn't have to wait to lv 20 to use their lv 1 feature.

[mephnick]

I love the Gloom Stalker. I feel like people assume it has to be some sneaky ambush sub-class, but other than "hiding from darkvision" there's nothing really about that.

You get to add Darkvision to a race without it. Wis to initiative. You get increased movement, extra attack and extra damage on your first turn. You get Wis proficiency. You get to turn misses to hits. You get to impose disadvantage on attacks.

All of that stuff is as useful for a GWM Strength Ranger as it is for a Stealth Archer. It's a very well designed sub-class.

[CTurbo]

Foe Slayer should be Wis mod to attack AND damage all the time IMO

[stoutstien]

Foe Slayer should be Wis mod to attack AND damage all the time IMO still a weak/ unflavored capstone but better by a long shot