Would you buy this?

[Subwoofy]

Hello everyone!

First some background, I'm currently studying software engineering and this school period we've been assigned to make an innovative project. I'm in a group with some friends and we all enjoy playing Pathfinder and play regularly. So we figured it would be cool to make something for our hobby. Since we're pretty much making something that should be sell-able we're also supposed to do market research, so here I am -- asking you people if you'd be interested in what we've got in our minds.

So here's the idea: we want to make a small(ish) box that has slots on the side so players can input an NFC card in (credit card sized) which holds their character info. On the top we'll have a medium-sized display that will be used to show battlemaps or whatever the DM wants to show, along with LEDs that will light up above the inserted player's card to signify who's turn in combat it is. This LED will be press-able and used to end ones turn to pass it on to the next player.
The plan is for players to be able to take this NFC card home and edit/create their characters there and then take them with them to a gamestore or a friend's house and just "jump into" a game where all they would have to do is insert their card into the box.

Now, our question is: would any of you be interested in such a product? And if it's not too much trouble, why or why not?

Thanks for taking the time out of your days to answer our questions!

[khadgar567]

Hello everyone!

First some background, I'm currently studying software engineering and this school period we've been assigned to make an innovative project. I'm in a group with some friends and we all enjoy playing Pathfinder and play regularly. So we figured it would be cool to make something for our hobby. Since we're pretty much making something that should be sell-able we're also supposed to do market research, so here I am -- asking you people if you'd be interested in what we've got in our minds.

So here's the idea: we want to make a small(ish) box that has slots on the side so players can input an NFC card in (credit card sized) which holds their character info. On the top we'll have a medium-sized display that will be used to show battlemaps or whatever the DM wants to show, along with LEDs that will light up above the inserted player's card to signify who's turn in combat it is. This LED will be press-able and used to end ones turn to pass it on to the next player.
The plan is for players to be able to take this NFC card home and edit/create their characters there and then take them with them to a gamestore or a friend's house and just "jump into" a game where all they would have to do is insert their card into the box.

Now, our question is: would any of you be interested in such a product? And if it's not too much trouble, why or why not?

Thanks for taking the time out of your days to answer our questions!
you are kinda trying to rediscover america mate. your product idea is good but i cant see why i need something like that when i can rent a room with gaming table with all i need for session. the turn based led counter looks like good idea but when most of the group trying to minmax the most area they can piss in single turn it feels useless since there is always a guy who wants to get flank bonus with you or guy who needs line of sight to mob so its not worth the effort better thing you can do is make iphone app that has character builder and acces to most of the books so every phone user can check rules via phones.

[Subwoofy]

you are kinda trying to rediscover america mate. your product idea is good but i cant see why i need something like that when i can rent a room with gaming table with all i need for session. the turn based led counter looks like good idea but when most of the group trying to minmax the most area they can piss in single turn it feels useless since there is always a guy who wants to get flank bonus with you or guy who needs line of sight to mob so its not worth the effort better thing you can do is make iphone app that has character builder and acces to most of the books so every phone user can check rules via phones.

Alright, thanks for the feedback! However, in our experience, gaming tables are rather hard to come by (in our area we are unable to rent a room with a gaming table) and the app you suggested already exists so it wouldn't fit the criteria of our project being innovative. Thus yielding us a grade insignificant enough to pass the class.

[Alent]

Personally, no. I expect it costs too much and it sounds like it lacks logistical features that I would want. I would also caution you not to take that too close to heart. I'm probably a little more demanding than your hypothetical target audience, and I am well aware I can be unreasonable with features I'd like- I'm writing my own Virtual tabletop because the common VTTs fall short of what I want or cost too much.

As described this "box" is going to be a decently sized digital monitor used as a battlemat, yes? This means you're running a few logistics hurdles from the word go, which include having a proper display for the game. You've got some interesting possibilities here in that you could actually use e-ink instead of a traditional LCD, but cost is going to be a problem no matter how you slice it. If you're using an LCD monitor at a large enough size to be functional, at the very least you're looking in the low $200s once you add in the cost of your custom electronics. It doesn't sound like you're using a touchscreen, which helps on cost.

The NFC cards also present an interesting problem. While NFC cards are cheap, the non-NFC connectivity is more important here. As DM, can I review my players' cards in advance? Can I edit/override their sheets on the fly while DMing? Are they playing with normal sheets and just using the NFC tokens as a fancy digital initiative tracker? Depending on the answer to these, the device increases in value if you remove the NFC functionality.

In fact, in general, you seem to be lacking details of how this will help with gameplay. Nifty factor aside, how does this make play better? Will this slow down play? Will this track buff and debuff stacks in addition to initiative? Will this increase prep time? If insufficient prep time is taken beforehand, how badly does it derail the game?

Let me know if I've misunderstood what you're after, your description is a little hard to go by. If I've understood correctly, I would suggest splitting RFID system from the display. Rescope your RFID system as a small device you can prototype with a RasPi, sold as a box that connects to an existing display. From there, you can sell flat-backed LCD monitors with side-ports for hooking your device up to, or allow people to hook it up to their existing monitor/projector gaming table.

[khadgar567]

Alright, thanks for the feedback! However, in our experience, gaming tables are rather hard to come by (in our area we are unable to rent a room with a gaming table) and the app you suggested already exists so it wouldn't fit the criteria of our project being innovative. Thus yielding us a grade insignificant enough to pass the class.
I know it exists thats why i said iphone app since every verion of app is using chrome os thus no decent one for ios users which why i asked you to develop it.

[Subwoofy]

In general I feel like we poorly explained the general concept. The overarching idea is a box that you plug your laptop into and turns any table into a full-fledged gaming table. Both players and the dungeon master will be able to connect to the device with their phones, tablets or laptops with the DM having a roll20


If you're using an LCD monitor at a large enough size to be functional, at the very least you're looking in the low $200s once you add in the cost of your custom electronics.
The current prototype is pushing just shy of $170 dollars in production cost so it would definitely be a niche item.


As DM, can I review my players' cards in advance?
Yes this will be possible.


Can I edit/override their sheets on the fly while DMing?
Yes this will be possible.


Are they playing with normal sheets and just using the NFC tokens as a fancy digital initiative tracker?
Whilst this will be a possibility the intention is that players will use their phones, tablets or laptops as sheets with the NFC token simply being a local storage device.


Depending on the answer to these, the device increases in value if you remove the NFC functionality.
To be completely frank the only reason for the NFC gimmick is that the one of the requirements for a passing grade is that we need to have a hardware component in our project we would rather have people hook up to the device with their phone through Bluetooth or Wi-Fi and load in characters that way.


In fact, in general, you seem to be lacking details of how this will help with gameplay.
You are completely in the right here the product is in the first stage of design so even to us the details are a little fuzzy. The intention is to speed play up. In our personal experience setting up battle maps and helping our less experienced players manage their characters takes up a lot of our time which we aim to make easier. Most of the ideas for this device comes from me DMing starter groups in our local game store.

Thank you for you direct and honest feedback it helps us look at the project critically.

[Alent]

In general I feel like we poorly explained the general concept. The overarching idea is a box that you plug your laptop into and turns any table into a full-fledged gaming table. Both players and the dungeon master will be able to connect to the device with their phones, tablets or laptops with the DM having a roll20

Ah, okay, so this is the display unit for an external PC system. This makes more sense.


The current prototype is pushing just shy of $170 dollars in production cost so it would definitely be a niche item.

So... $200~225ish is about right once you add in manufacturing, shipping, and profit margin for both you and retail? Or is that already factored? (Actually, better question- is making a solvent business model within the scope of the class? If not, you can ignore this entire line of questioning.)


Whilst this will be a possibility the intention is that players will use their phones, tablets or laptops as sheets with the NFC token simply being a local storage device.

To be completely frank the only reason for the NFC gimmick is that the one of the requirements for a passing grade is that we need to have a hardware component in our project we would rather have people hook up to the device with their phone through Bluetooth or Wi-Fi and load in characters that way.

Rather than the NFC tokens, would the class requirements be met with you using NFC via a phone? Since you've got a companion app, the app should be able to NFC handshake with the table unit, and then you could drop the physical buttons and hit a "done" button on your cell.

A secondary possibility for meeting the requirement would be NFC minifig bases, but I'm not that knowledgable about how you'd track the location of an NFC tag on a play mat. I've seen a Microsoft proof of concept demo that uses this in conjunction with AR, but I've no idea what its price point is.


Thank you for you direct and honest feedback it helps us look at the project critically.

Glad to help, best of luck to your team.

[Subwoofy]

Ah, okay, so this is the display unit for an external PC system. This makes more sense.
Yes it is more a display that facilitates some connectivity between apps than a standalone thing, sorry for poorly explaining this English is not our native language.
It's hard to make estimations on price but we aim to keep it between 150 and 200 dollars but might exceed that if necessary.


Rather than the NFC tokens, would the class requirements be met with you using NFC via a phone? Since you've got a companion app, the app should be able to NFC handshake with the table unit, and then you could drop the physical buttons and hit a "done" button on your cell.
Unfortunately we need to use standalone NFC readers to pass the class as phones do not count as hardware.


A secondary possibility for meeting the requirement would be NFC minifig bases, but I'm not that knowledgable about how you'd track the location of an NFC tag on a play mat. I've seen a Microsoft proof of concept demo that uses this in conjunction with AR, but I've no idea what its price point is.
We have also played with this idea but decided to drop it as we'd have no clue as how to implement it.

[JeenLeen]

I'm trying to give the perspective of a somewhat 'Luddite' personality. I don't like changing techy things, and prefer things stay as physical as possible with real sheets of paper and real dice. Also, I'm fairly cheap.
I reckon those demographics fit a not insignificant amount of the gaming crowd, so hoping it's useful for market perspective.

As something likely not fitting your target audience, I don't have a smartphone and plan to avoid 'em as long as possible. So anything requiring bluetooth or an app is instantly a non-option for me. But I think you'd be safe assuming any potential customers have those utilities.

Though, as a nerdy programmer (who nonetheless shares the traits listed above), I can state that this does sound awesome for a class project.

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To me, it wouldn't be worth it because the benefits seem very minor compared to regular, physical character sheets and using some graph paper for a cheap map.
If I were in a group using this, I'd worry about the complications if someone forgot or lost their card, or if the hardware got damaged. I guess it's no more likely than misplacing a character sheet or spilling coffee on it, but it feels more likely to fail. Likewise if the computer (or whatever input device) fails.

However, I can admit it sounds cool, and if were more prone to techy things, I'd probably like the idea. But it would be prohibitively expensive to me. I mean, I could buy it, but the benefits definitely don't seem worth the cost. I also fear it would slow down play.

The ability to digitally edit your character sheet via the cards, and share/interact them with stuff quickly, is a cool plus. I think that's the biggest pro for me, since the aesthetics of the gaming table and displays don't mean a lot to me. (Again, this is my personal taste.)

One pro I think you have -- if I'm reading you right -- is that you could have one Unit per table, so a group could just buy one and all the players enjoy it. Is that correct?

---

EDIT: one thing you might want to mention in your project is that the software could be easily expanded to other similar games, like D&D 3.5 or D&D 5e. At least, I had a class project where I made a dice-roller in R. One part of the requirements was reflection on how our program could be better, or something like that. Mentioning possible expansion -- and writing the code so that such augmentation in the future could be easily implemented -- was part of my project and got a good reaction.

[khadgar567]

Unfortunately we need to use standalone NFC readers to pass the class as phones do not count as hardware.



well i think he wants to say you always have the cranial main unit and you use phone base app to move and store the pawns this kinda lessens some of the cost by virtue of not printing new cards for every npc and make editting files kinda much easier instead updating each killed mook via punch card style update you can group x amount of them then update as one block it makes kinda easier to manage the DM work and make game quicker. Now thanks to your better explanation i think i join the kick starter of your project as one of the patron since it cuts the cost of hardware i need play the game just enough that i can play a session in lunch brake in work thanks to easily carry gear.

[nineGardens]

Yeah... sorry to say it, but no.

Part of the joy of tabletop RPGs is the chance to step AWAY from the technology.
I use computers and things all day. I LIKE using paper for RPGs. I enjoy that I can go to a tiny cabin miles away from electricity, and still have a game system that works.
Why would I store a character on a card thing when... a piece of paper does the entire job, just as well, if not better, and is not prone to technical failures?


Its a cool idea, but I'd say it probably isn't going to actually work in a market.

[jiriku]

I wouldn't buy it.

My group has been gaming with whiteboards and dry-erase markers for decades. We're comfortable with that and this doesn't seem useful enough to change. If playing 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons, we manage characters online using D&D Beyond, and when playing 3.x/PF we use custom-built spreadsheets in MS Excel. We're a tech-savvy group and we all have decent Excel skills.

A hardware card has all the disadvantages of a physical character sheet ("oh man, I forgot to bring my character") and anyone using a tablet/phone/laptop interface might as well benefit from cloud storage or online streaming of their content.

The LCD display, well... how big is it? Can i draw on it? Does it come with a large library of maps for me to use? A whiteboard lets me draw spontaneously, and if it's not a touchscreen I can draw on then I have to give up that spontaneity and prepare maps in advance. If the map-making tools aren't (a) provide, (b) easy to use, and (c) generously loaded with a map library, that's a lot more work for me as the DM and I hate drawing maps.