Prying Eyes spell - do they have darkvision?

[Grand Poobah]

Hola,

I'm a dwarf diviner. Prying Eyes is the most likely pick for my 5th level divine spell.

SRD spell description states:


Each eye can see 120 feet (normal vision only) in all directions.

which make me think it doesn't have darkvision. But the next paragraph states:


It has a Spot modifier equal to your caster level (maximum +15) and is subject to illusions, darkness, fog, and any other factors that would affect your ability to receive visual information about your surroundings.

which makes me think it can see in the dark albeit only out to 60'.

Anyone know which it is? If it can't see in the dark as I can, it's a fantastically underwhelming spell for 5th level, even at hours/level.

For info: My 5th level divination spell options are limited to Contact Other Plane, Prying Eyes and Telepathic Bond. CoP is an option but a) we haven't looted nor had the chance to buy any stat boosting items (my INT is 19 currently :smalleek:); b) we don't have a cleric so the minimum 15% chance of being dropped to 8 INT for a week is scary. The lack of telepathy hasn't been an issue so while TB is useful it's a bit "meh!" when it's only 10mins/level.

Thanks

GP

[Fizban]

Highlighting a couple specific words in the long line of things that hamper vision doesn't change the fact that they only have normal vision. Your vision does not matter unless the spell you're using specifically says you can use your own vision modes through it. The use of "your" in that sentence is part of the normal flow of speech, referring to "your" vision in the sense of any character's vision, and could be replaced by "anyone" or "someone" if English was normally spoken that way. It's just there because if it wasn't then someone would try to claim that as a magic sensor it should somehow ignore normal vision obstructions because it's not an eye, but the spell is supposed to have the same vision as a creature. With normal vision only, with a maximum range of 120'.

Is it underwhelming? The sheer amount of area you can survey with a bunch of flying eyes is huge. No other spell can do this. They act independently and quite likely have a higher spot modifier than you do, as well as a sufficient hide modifier to stymie anything that doesn't have a bunch of ranks. Unlike a summoned creature, they also possess any knowledge you do. They can be given fairly complex instructions based on that knowledge, including sentry duty, searching for specific things, and even forming chains such that if one is destroyed another will report back. If you need a 5th level divination to prepare, prep Prying Eyes and then figure out what to do with it. I'd rather be able to send out a bunch of expendable magic eyeballs, than cast a Telepathic Bond on someone and split the party.

Especially when communication items (and even spells) are dirt cheap anyway. Unless your restrictions have blocked them all or something.

[ericgrau]

Based on the way it is worded they are affected by the conditions listed AND anything else that would affect you. So darkness affects them even if you have have darkvision. Invisibility affects them even if you have see invisibility active, etc. Any obstacle to vision NOT listed defaults to your abilities.

I think the intent was "one's" not "your", in an attempt to say unlisted effects also hamper the eyes. But we can't say that for sure without asking, so as written it's as I said above.

[Doctor Awkward]

I disagree.

If the spell meant for you to use darkvision through it, then it would have been tagged with the [Scrying] (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#scrying) subschool, which explicitly allows your full visual acuity to function through the magical effect.

[Fizban]

And incidentally, the lack of the [scrying] descriptor is a specific advantage for Prying Eyes as well. Clairvoyance doesn't work if you try to cast it past a sheet of lead, Arcane Eye stops working if it turns a corner and puts a sheet of lead between it and you. Prying Eyes are not [scrying], which means they can gather information in places where scrying is blocked. Considering how easy and ubiquitous lead sheeting should be for anyone with a stronghold, Prying Eyes is a significant upgrade in that respect as well as the others.

[Grand Poobah]

Thanks all for the replies.

Last, desperate attempt to get the eyes darkvision; SRD description says the eyes are "Fine constructs". Constructs get 60' darkvision.

And to counter my own point, and preempt the replies , specific trumps general blah, blah I suppose.



Fizban:

Is it underwhelming?

Apologies, I was looking at it subjectively. In the current campaign, I'm spending about 90% of the time underground with minimal light, if any. That makes the eye's high spot check (they can't see anything) and their great hide check (they can't see cover to hide behind and anything with darkvision can see them) redundant most of the time. I agree it has great potential outside or in lit dungeons, but in the dark places of the world they're next to useless.

[Fizban]

I'm spending about 90% of the time underground with minimal light, if any. That makes the eye's high spot check (they can't see anything) and their great hide check (they can't see cover to hide behind and anything with darkvision can see them) redundant most of the time. I agree it has great potential outside or in lit dungeons, but in the dark places of the world they're next to useless.
Well that is a significant problem then. I think in that situation I'd just directly ask the DM for a reprieve- I doubt the spell's creators really thought about that either, since the classic dungeon where Prying Eyes would be most useful is usually inhabited by monsters that have no reason to light their lairs.

Otherwise I'd try to get an alternate version. Adding darkvision for +1 level would probably be fine, but wouldn't help at this level. Adding the [scrying] descriptor so they can share your vision would add the usual drawbacks and could be okay. A variant of the spell that generates eyes which can see in the dark but are blinded by daylight (or daylight) might also be fair, since it's mutually exclusive with the normal version: preparing one means you can't use that slot for the other, and if the situation changes the underground version is just as useless aboveground.

[Doctor Awkward]

Last, desperate attempt to get the eyes darkvision; SRD description says the eyes are "Fine constructs". Constructs get 60' darkvision.

Construct Type: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#constructType)

Traits
A construct possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).



... Each eye can see 120 feet (normal vision only) in all directions.

... An eye traveling through darkness must find its way by touch.

[Grand Poobah]

Well that is a significant problem then. I think in that situation I'd just directly ask the DM for a reprieve- I doubt the spell's creators really thought about that either, since the classic dungeon where Prying Eyes would be most useful is usually inhabited by monsters that have no reason to light their lairs.

Otherwise I'd try to get an alternate version. Adding darkvision for +1 level would probably be fine, but wouldn't help at this level. Adding the [scrying] descriptor so they can share your vision would add the usual drawbacks and could be okay. A variant of the spell that generates eyes which can see in the dark but are blinded by daylight (or daylight) might also be fair, since it's mutually exclusive with the normal version: preparing one means you can't use that slot for the other, and if the situation changes the underground version is just as useless above ground.

Excellent suggestions. Will work on my sad puppy dog eyes before speaking to my DM.

[ottdmk]

The inability to see in the dark is a very deliberate limitation on the spell. It's eliminated by the 8th level upgrade, Greater Prying Eyes, which get True Seeing out to 120'. (Why yes, I will be taking it immediately once my guy hits 16th level. :smallbiggrin: )

[Fizban]

True Seeing is such a massive upgrade that there must be room for variants before then. If not a 5th level variant then 6th or 7th. It'd also be appropriate for something like the UA Diviner variant's Enhanced Awareness, which improves two standard divination spells and also a DC boost- why DC boost when we've noticed another standard divination that could use a minor upgrade variant?

[Remuko]

Ive been lurking in this thread a while and even the knowledge of that greater prying eyes spell doesnt make me feel like (regardless of if its RAW, RAI, or just a house ruling on my part) that the "normal vision" part of the spell effect could/does mean anything other than whatever is "normal" for the caster. So I'd 100% always rule that anyone with darkvision had prying eyes with darkvision, and yes id even make it so that beings with true seeing naturally would have true seeing prying eyes thus negating the main purpose of the upgraded version.