Redemtion paladin/rogue multiclass help

[MightyDuck]

So, I'm building a changeling redemption paladin who I want to be the parties face and I kinda want to multiclass rogue for expertise and a splash of flavor but I'm not sure how far into rogue I should go or how to best optimise the character. My current plan is go 5 levels of paladin for extra attack, then 2 levels of rogue for expertise and cunning action and either take another level in rogue for the archetype (I'm thinking swashbuckler) or doing so some point further down the line.

Its possible that we'll be rolling for stats but for now I'll use point buy for simplicity sake. After racial modifiers I have; 8 16 14 10 10 16 (If not obvious already, this is a dex build)

Any advice, build ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as its probably obvious that I'm quite new at multiclassing and optimising. Thanks in advance and if you need any additional information that I've left out just ask.

[nickl_2000]

Unless your DM is allowing you to break the rules, you can't multiclass out of Paladin. To multiclass out of Paladin you need both 13 strength and 13 charisma, which you don't have.



Let me be more verbose. Multiclassing requires that you meet the requirements on PHB pg 163 for both the class you are multiclassing out of and the class you are multiclassing into. So, in this case you would need at least 13 in strength, charisma, and dexterity.

[MightyDuck]

Unless your DM is allowing you to break the rules, you can't multiclass out of Paladin. To multiclass out of Paladin you need both 13 strength and 13 charisma, which you don't have

He's kind enough to let that slide since I'm focusing on dexterity, of course if we end up rolling stats then I might roll well enough to get 13 strength anyway, but thats neither here nor there.

[nickl_2000]

Swashbuckler would be a solid choice for this build. It lets you get that Sneak attack damage on your own. A few things to think about though

1) I would go Paladin 6 before going Rogue. The 6th level Aura of Protection is an amazing ability and one your party will want as soon as possible.
2) Swashbuckler helps you out, but you will often be wasting your bonus action as a Paladin since you will often be tanking.
3) Arcane Trickster gives you mage Hand Legerdemain to steal potions and gives you the ability to get shield and/or find familiar. It is hard to underestimate how amazing the shield spells is
4) Mastermind gives you some sweet face effects with Master of Intrigue and a guaranteed use of your bonus action with Master of tactics.


Personally I would go 6 levels Paladin, then 3 Rogue (Mastermind) after that.

[Guy Lombard-O]

If you're willing to go 3 full levels into your multiclass dip, then have you considered going bard instead of rogue? You'd still get the skills and expertise, and you'd do a whole lot better on spell slots for divine smiting. Of course, you lose the very excellent rogue features. But if you're like most paladins, you really want lots of slots for smiting.

[MightyDuck]

Swashbuckler would be a solid choice for this build. It lets you get that Sneak attack damage on your own. A few things to think about though

1) I would go Paladin 6 before going Rogue. The 6th level Aura of Protection is an amazing ability and one your party will want as soon as possible.
2) Swashbuckler helps you out, but you will often be wasting your bonus action as a Paladin since you will often be tanking.
3) Arcane Trickster gives you mage Hand Legerdemain to steal potions and gives you the ability to get shield and/or find familiar. It is hard to underestimate how amazing the shield spells is
4) Mastermind gives you some sweet face effects with Master of Intrigue and a guaranteed use of your bonus action with Master of tactics.


Personally I would go 6 levels Paladin, then 3 Rogue (Mastermind) after that.

You make a good point about going level 6 paladin first, I'll definitely do that. As for the other points, surely I can still use the dash, hide and cast spells with my bonus action. That being said I agree that mastermind would be a better pick so I'll probably be going for that. Thanks for the advice!

[MightyDuck]

If you're willing to go 3 full levels into your multiclass dip, then have you considered going bard instead of rogue? You'd still get the skills and expertise, and you'd do a whole lot better on spell slots for divine smiting. Of course, you lose the very excellent rogue features. But if you're like most paladins, you really want lots of slots for smiting.

I'd rather avoid bard for RP reasons, while I could probably reflavor some of the bardic abilities and spells it would be a bit of a hassle, rogue is a generic enough dip that pretty much anyone can justify multiclassing into it and it just so happens that it fits the character really well. That being said if anyone wants to convince me or suggest a really good paladin/bard build then I'll keep an open mind about it.

[nickl_2000]

You make a good point about going level 6 paladin first, I'll definitely do that. As for the other points, surely I can still use the dash, hide and cast spells with my bonus action. That being said I agree that mastermind would be a better pick so I'll probably be going for that. Thanks for the advice!

I phrased that poorly. As a paladin, you are often going to want to be in the thick of things and in battle to keep the enemies away from the more squishy members of the party (wizards, druids, sorcerers, etc). So, you won't be using disengage and hide as often as a full out rogue would to move around the battlefield and keep from getting smashed. So, you can still use them, you just won't as often as other classes would want to.

Dash as a bonus action is great to get you into smiting range sooner and same for spells. However, it is nice to have that bonus action help there to assist others and always give you something to do with the bonus action.


Sounds like you have a fun character out there for the running. Enjoy!!

[Vogie]

4) Mastermind gives you some sweet face effects with Master of Intrigue and a guaranteed use of your bonus action with Master of tactics.

Personally I would go 6 levels Paladin, then 3 Rogue (Mastermind) after that.

This is exactly what I was going to suggest - the Redemption Paladin is a bit different then most builds, so I was surprised you all were suggesting more frontline-y builds.

Redemption/Mastermind will give you a more control-y Field General feel, rather than a 1v1 duelist.

This would be different than Crown/Swashbuckler build, which is more of a duelist or an army's Single Combat Champion