How to do a lowlevel demigod? dnd 3.5

[adampate5577]

so I am a DM and am running a game where one of the pc's by my design is the artificial genetic splice of two greater gods, the god of truth(knowledge) and the god of lies. so technically speaking he should be a demi god right? so I put myself in a pickle because I am struggling to decide what his portfolio would be and how to regulate his powers so they slowly manifest instead of the way 3.5 rules just give TONS of buffs all at once. I am very open to ideas, so far I've thought of the Death domain as death is an inescapable fact by is also an illusion as it is not the end. my other idea was the portfolio of emotion and they are self made illusions but make up the fact and truth of how one feels and acts. I really need some ideas on how I could slowly have his character gain in power throughout the game in a balanced but interesting way. the character is currently a level 4 rouge tiefling that is wanting to go into master of mask.

[jiriku]

Gestalt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) him with cleric, using the domains Knowledge and Trickery.

[adampate5577]

I don't want to force him into any class because that takes a lot of his freedom with his character away but if he would like the cleric route I think it could work however cleric is a divine caster given powers by a deity they worship but he doesn't worship any gods.

[Erloas]

Gestalt doesn't really alter his base class, it just gives him all the cleric abilities as well. You could even make some modifications as you went, but it would give you a powerful set of options and it is already designed to gain power as they level. You would of course, as the DM, waive his need to worship.

The other option are templates, of which there are plenty. Advance the template as they level, and/or depending how much power increase you want, apply other templates a certain intervals.

[adampate5577]

the main problem I see with Gestalt is that is says every character in the party would need it in order for it to be fair, I want his character to be cool but I don't want to make him out gun everyone and I also don't want everyone to use it cause the game would get too out of hand

[Erloas]

I'm not sure how you make someone even kind of demi-god like and not have them be powerful.
If you're wanting just a touch of the divine, something like the celestial/half celestial (or fiendish, depending on god) would be the best way. +1-2 CR will be strong, but it's not gestalt level.

[jiriku]

the main problem I see with Gestalt is that is says every character in the party would need it in order for it to be fair, I want his character to be cool but I don't want to make him out gun everyone and I also don't want everyone to use it cause the game would get too out of hand

Well, that's a bit of a challenge. You want him to have extra powers and you want them to advance. And presumably you're not going to take away his usual race and class features. But you don't want him to outgun everyone. So you want him to be more powerful than the other PCs without being more powerful than the other PCs.

I think the only way this works is if you make his powers come at the cost of his usual character advancement. For example, you could give him the Devil and Celestial Bloodlines from Unearthed Arcana. This gives him extra stuff, but will require him to give up a few character levels as he advances. Unfortunately the UA bloodlines are not very interesting or well-made, but you can probably use them as the basis for making something more interesting yourself.

Another option would be to grant features that very definitely are not compatible with his existing class features. For example, a special attack that is not compatible with a sneak attack, or benefits that replace the usual persona benefits of his celestial and demon masks (or cannot be used while wearing any master of masks persona).

[adampate5577]

Well, that's a bit of a challenge. You want him to have extra powers and you want them to advance. And presumably you're not going to take away his usual race and class features. But you don't want him to outgun everyone. So you want him to be more powerful than the other PCs without being more powerful than the other PCs.

I think the only way this works is if you make his powers come at the cost of his usual character advancement. For example, you could give him the Devil and Celestial Bloodlines from Unearthed Arcana. This gives him extra stuff, but will require him to give up a few character levels as he advances. Unfortunately the UA bloodlines are not very interesting or well-made, but you can probably use them as the basis for making something more interesting yourself.

Another option would be to grant features that very definitely are not compatible with his existing class features. For example, a special attack that is not compatible with a sneak attack, or benefits that replace the usual persona benefits of his celestial and demon masks (or cannot be used while wearing any master of masks persona).

Yea u have a good point. I don't want him to overshadow the other characters all the time so id like to find a way that gives his character abilities that don't effect his combat like a template or gesalt classing would. That's the biggest problem with templates and bloodlines is that by the time the party is level 20 of he has a plus 4 cr adjustment he would lay behind late game and the other characters who are simply hero's with no divine bloodline would be more powerful than him and that's just odd to me. I really need help figuring out what aspect of the world he would embody as the son of truth and lies. After that I believe I could move onto how it would manifest game wise.

[Erloas]

If you're not wanting to increase his combat abilities much but still give him interesting abilities I would go with spells and just grant them as spell-like or supernatural abilities.

Progress it similar to a half caster (simply steal the spells per day and spells known from PF; Hunter, or Inquisitor, as examples) but without any bonuses to known or per day and then you pick the spells rather then let the player. Pick some related to the nature of the gods in question and don't pick any combat spells or pick some weaker combat spells. Gives some versatility without increasing combat power (since you're picking the spells you've got control). If that seems like a bit much, maybe drop one or two spells known or uses per day off the tables or both.

Even a few combat spells wouldn't be bad because he isn't going to have the concentration or CL to make them really powerful or to reliably cast defensively and with low save DCs.

[adampate5577]

If you're not wanting to increase his combat abilities much but still give him interesting abilities I would go with spells and just grant them as spell-like or supernatural abilities.

Progress it similar to a half caster (simply steal the spells per day and spells known from PF; Hunter, or Inquisitor, as examples) but without any bonuses to known or per day and then you pick the spells rather then let the player. Pick some related to the nature of the gods in question and don't pick any combat spells or pick some weaker combat spells. Gives some versatility without increasing combat power (since you're picking the spells you've got control). If that seems like a bit much, maybe drop one or two spells known or uses per day off the tables or both.

Even a few combat spells wouldn't be bad because he isn't going to have the concentration or CL to make them really powerful or to reliably cast defensively and with low save DCs.
Yea that's a good idea, thanks man, I'll look into it that could work quite well.

[adampate5577]

I do still need help deciding what his power would be as the son of the god of lies and truth. like what portfolio would he fall under?

[Erloas]

What level are you currently at? Find a good set of level 1-3 spells is a lot lighter load than finding the full set through level 9 is a lot more work. Are you wanting to stick to just divine, just arcane, or free to mix?

Assuming a mix, the Knowledge and Trickery domains are good starting points, divination and illusion schools also seem like good options. So I would focus on those, but if something else seems to fit take it.

Quick scan examples:

0 - Detect magic, read magic, know direction, light, ghost sound, detect poison
1 - disguise self, detect secret doors, identify, comprehend languages, silent image, endure elements
2 - detect thoughts, minor image, misdirection, locate object, silent table*, darkvision
3 - nondetection, continual flame, tongues, major image, Aristocrat’s Nightmare*, spirit bond*

* not sure if 3.5 has these, I know PF does.

These all have the general theme of either know or lie, with a few being more "touch of divine." Limited combat use and not too powerful on their own.

[adampate5577]

What level are you currently at? Find a good set of level 1-3 spells is a lot lighter load than finding the full set through level 9 is a lot more work. Are you wanting to stick to just divine, just arcane, or free to mix?

Assuming a mix, the Knowledge and Trickery domains are good starting points, divination and illusion schools also seem like good options. So I would focus on those, but if something else seems to fit take it.

Quick scan examples:

0 - Detect magic, read magic, know direction, light, ghost sound, detect poison
1 - disguise self, detect secret doors, identify, comprehend languages, silent image, endure elements
2 - detect thoughts, minor image, misdirection, locate object, silent table*, darkvision
3 - nondetection, continual flame, tongues, major image, Aristocrat’s Nightmare*, spirit bond*

* not sure if 3.5 has these, I know PF does.

These all have the general theme of either know or lie, with a few being more "touch of divine." Limited combat use and not too powerful on their own.

They are currently 4th level, in 3.5 most of those spells are available and I think could work nicley. In 3.5 a demi God has to have a "portfolio" like the God of knowledge his is obviously knowledge. It's difficult to decide what he would be the eventual God of as a mix between the two.

[petermcleod117]

so I am a DM and am running a game where one of the pc's by my design is the artificial genetic splice of two greater gods, the god of truth(knowledge) and the god of lies. so technically speaking he should be a demi god right? so I put myself in a pickle because I am struggling to decide what his portfolio would be and how to regulate his powers so they slowly manifest instead of the way 3.5 rules just give TONS of buffs all at once. I am very open to ideas, so far I've thought of the Death domain as death is an inescapable fact by is also an illusion as it is not the end. my other idea was the portfolio of emotion and they are self made illusions but make up the fact and truth of how one feels and acts. I really need some ideas on how I could slowly have his character gain in power throughout the game in a balanced but interesting way. the character is currently a level 4 rouge tiefling that is wanting to go into master of mask.

Several ideas:

there is a class in Secrets of Pact Magic called the Occult Priest which is basically just a guy trying to become a god. If you like the pact magic system from the Tome of Magic, the character you intend to use is of the scholarly sort, and you want to be able to grant spells to cultists, you could work that in. There is also a prestige class in the Fiend Folio which allows an outsider character to grant divine spells.

Otherwise, the best material for this sort of thing is ironically from one of the most infamously mediocre gaming companies: Avalanche Press. A lot of their earlier stuff (which tends to be much better than their later stuff) had rules for playing as gods, or becoming gods. Viking Age had 3 playable god races (Aesir, Vanir, and Valkyrie), and Celtic Age had a set of rules for convincing the gods into making you into a god. Even War in Heliopolis has the Avatar prestige class which allowed a character to slowly embody an existing deity.

Finally, I hear this thing https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/768022427/manual-of-mythology-fae-deities-and-shamanism-d20/ has rules about playing as gods, but I have yet to look into it.

That's all I got.

[AOKost]

Not technically a 3.5 product, being made specifically for Pathfinder (reverse compatible), but there are 3 publications by a 3rd party publisher

Publisher: Super Genius Games

Specific Publications referred to in this posting:
The Genius Guide to Godlings
The Genius Guide to Mystic Godlings
The Genius Guide to Godling Ascendant

The first publication deals with the "Mighty" (Fighter base) and the "Clever" (Skills based) characters, while the second publication deals with the 'gish' and 'full' spelcasters. The third publication furthers the first two publications in giving a plethora of Feats and Abilities that can be chosen from.

You can likely find most of these publications on d20pfsrd.com by doing a google search and adding "Pathfinder" after 'godling'

From what I remember of these publications, they're pretty well ballanced, but quite unique from most 'classes' as they're more 'build your own' like a "fighter" with all their Feats to choose from...

If a character takes all 20 levels of the 'base' Godling classes, they become a full-fledged Demigod with all the powers that come with it in your setting.

I'm likely to take a lot from these materials, especially as I already run a 'classless' system called Custom Characters, and I too am about to start a "godling" campaign based off the first 2.5 minutes of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKHotBZFJwY

My campaign has already started 'normally' and I'm giving the characters 1 Mythic encounter each quest over the next 4 quests to open up Mythic abilities to them early on. At this point, all my players are playing Humans (for reasons), and are required to worship a deity. At the conclusion of the 4th quest/adventure I'm going to TPK them. They will all awaken in front of the Over-deity Ao (for simplicity sake). At this point, they can choose a new race if they so choose (within reason), and at this point the Over-deity will tell them that they are all something along the lines of demi-godlings... not even qualifying fully as a Rank 0 deity in the D&D setting, they will cease aging, and either return to remain at their chosen races 'optimal' racial age, but gain mental bonuses as appropriate, even though they aren't technically aging, and more importantly, if they are ever killed, they will wake up at the "Hall of the Immortals", an extra-dimensional plane where they will have access to their patron gods 'domain/plane' (a place where they can physically speak with their deity) and then be able to 'return' to any place the character has been that has an idol of or for their deity currently present, without any 'time' having passed in the real world between death and return (they respawn like a computer game). Any of the given powers will not work on any deity of their power or higher (with some exceptions, such as if you ask for massive Strength because you worship a deity or whose Domains include Strength, then you technically could use that in battle against another deific being, and spellcasters with their spells, etc., but nothing along the lines of 'compulsion' or 'reading thoughts' etc.).

Their over-all goal is to become full-fledged deities, however they can.

They will then be sent back to the town they were adventuring in or to see their gods before all joining back together at the temple at the same time so no one gets left behind.

[jqavins]

The son of Truth and Lies should be a god of illusion and deception. Such domains would involve both creating and using these things and detecting and dispelling them. Think, for an innocuous example, of stage magicians who also expose people using the same techniques for fraud.

I played a young demigod once. Long ago, in AD&D with a lot of homebrew by a very talented DM. The party did a lot of work for Bahamat, even though my original character was a cleric of Heimdal; Heimdal did not object, as the alignments match.

The DM had decided, most logically I think, that Bahamat's seven gold dragon attendants are all demigods (and brothers). In a great war, fighting off invaders from another multiverse, one of the seven was killed, as was my character, with no hope of resurrection. (But I died at Heimdal's side, defending Valhalla, so it was a good day to die.)

My new character was the immature son of the dragon that was killed. He should have been trained by his father to one day take his father's place, but now had to be trained by one of his uncles. And as part of his training, he was sent to do Bahamat's missions along with the party. Most of the time he used his polymorph ability to pass as human. Which was a heck of a lot of fun, but I am bringing it up for a better reason then reminiscence.

What the DM then did was to introduce my divine powers gradually as I aged. I started out young enough that I could age in less than centuries, and if I recall I progressed one age category naturally, before "The Incident". He picked some of the lesser divine powers to start with and to gain soon, with the more kick-ass ones coming later, expected to be after campaign ended. That worked well, and I did not overshadow the other party members, though the powers were useful.

Then we met the time elemental. It was impervious or highly resistant to most attacks, but there is one attack that very, very few creatures resist. I Magic Missiled it. It was angry, and unleashed it most deadly attack on me. In a moment, I aged 300 years or so. Which would have really sucked for a human. Suddenly advancing two age categories meant a bunch more hit points, the other advances in dragon power, and some more divine powers. This could easily have upset the balance of the party, but this DM handled it very well.

He developed challenges that would not be instantly solved by the new powers.
He developed challenges that would be too hard without them, so I dominated in those moments, but those moments were not frequent.
He gave us situations where splitting the party really made sense, so I would go do one thing while the others did another. (The one that sticks in my memory is when we were deep in a stealth dungeon and an alarm went off. I split off, fleeing in a huge hurry making lots of noise, and convincing the denizens that the alarm was all about this one crazy gold dragon. The rest of the party stealthed on, and the only godlike thing I did was survive the many, many attacks thrown at me on the way out.)

In short, you can handle this by creative DMing using almost any reasonable mechanic, and it therefore does not pay to get hung up on the mechanics.