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TGWG
2007-09-20, 11:48 AM
what happens if you cast enlarge person on a werebear in it's hybrid form?

does it stack?

I know simular Enlarge person spells don't stack, but Lycanthropy is not simular to enlarge person.

reason why i'm doing this; I found a way to do 10d6 damage by level 3.

half giant fighter with monkey grip using a greatsword who's alflicted with lycanthropy (werebear) and then the have the party mage cast enlarge person on him.

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-20, 11:56 AM
what happens if you cast enlarge person on a werebear in it's hybrid form?

does it stack?

I know simular Enlarge person spells don't stack, but Lycanthropy is not simular to enlarge person.

reason why i'm doing this; I found a way to do 10d6 damage by level 3.

half giant fighter with monkey grip using a greatsword who's alflicted with lycanthropy (werebear) and then the have the party mage cast enlarge person on him.

Interesting. The only problem I see is that werebear increases your size to large, not increase your size by one step. However, a Lycanthrope can be a combination of any humanoid and an animal within one size category, the character becomes the animal's size in hybrid form. The rest, by RAW, would work.

The_Werebear
2007-09-20, 11:59 AM
what happens if you cast enlarge person on a werebear in it's hybrid form?

does it stack?

I know simular Enlarge person spells don't stack, but Lycanthropy is not simular to enlarge person.

reason why i'm doing this; I found a way to do 10d6 damage by level 3.

half giant fighter with monkey grip using a greatsword who's alflicted with lycanthropy (werebear) and then the have the party mage cast enlarge person on him.

Dunno if the other part would work, but it wouldn't be at level three. 6 bear HD and a level adjustment of +2 or three gives you 9 at the least.

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-09-20, 11:59 AM
Half-Giants are not legal targets for Enlarge Person.


Giant: Half-giants are not subject to spells or effects that affect humanoids only...

Alternate Form is a Supernatural ability and therefore magical. In this case the size increase and...


Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

Powerful Build and Monkey Grip is very unlikely to work the way you think they do. They do not "stack".

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-09-20, 12:01 PM
It's not "effects similar to enlarge person do not stack." It's "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack."

Now, assuming the werebear's normal form is a Medium Humanoid...

Alternate Form is a supernatural ability, which is a type of magical effect.

One of the effects of Alternate Form is to grant the size of the creature's new form. In this case, the new size is an increase.

Therefore, a werebear's Alternate Form is a magical effect that increases size.

Conclusion: Enlarge Person does not stack with this version of Alternate Form.

TGWG
2007-09-20, 12:01 PM
powerful build actualy does stack

Citizen Joe
2007-09-20, 12:02 PM
Yea, regardless of whether you are enlarged to begin with, the shape changing switches you to the specific animal/hybrid form. If you switch form first, you're not humanoid thus enlarge person won't work.

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-20, 12:03 PM
I]Powerful Build[/I] and Monkey Grip is very unlikely to work the way you think they do. They do not "stack".

I though Half-Giants were large, not medium+powerful build. That sets you back further since Monkey Grip and Powerful Build do not stack as Lord Silvanos said. And there are too many racial hit dice and LA for this to be worth it if you found a way of doing it. Any way Greater Mighty Wallop (SC ?) is a better way to get colossal weapon damage.

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-20, 12:04 PM
powerful build actualy does stack

Where did you find this information? The FAQ states that they do not stack.

TGWG
2007-09-20, 12:08 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants

toward the bottom of powerful build

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-09-20, 12:12 PM
toward the bottom of powerful build

Yes... but Monkey Grip does not change your size.

Nobody said you could not use Powerful Build if you were enlarged.

kamikasei
2007-09-20, 12:14 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants

toward the bottom of powerful build


The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subjectís size category.

Monkey Grip doesn't change the subject's size category. Both it and Powerful Build say you can use a weapon one size category larger than you, but since both refer to your base size and don't change it, they don't stack.

skywalker
2007-09-20, 03:11 PM
The problem is trying to find a way to enlarge yourself, since I(personally) have never seen a humanoid race(required for enlarge person) with powerful build.

This leads me to a related question I was just about to post a thread about, would a non-humanoid(IE, Half-giant or Goliath) be able to benefit from a belt of growth(MIC)?

Also, would righteous might work for either of the above?

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-09-20, 03:35 PM
Righteous Might does not specify any types or other restrictions, so that would work on anything that could cast it.

I am away from my MIC at the moment, but if the belt does not have any type restrictions either it would obviously work too.

...Eh?
2007-09-20, 03:55 PM
half giant

Goliath, less LA and still what you're looking for.


fighter

Warblade, for extra damage.


with monkey grip

It's a trap!


using a greatsword

Not actually a problem, but when you're not medium, Greataxe>Greatsword.


who's alflicted with lycanthropy (werebear) and then the have the party mage cast enlarge person on him.

Yeah, I would think that would work.

So, basically, the point here is that an LA+3 character can do 4d6 damage. Hell, even if monkey grip and powerful build did stack, that's only an extra 2d6 for 6d6, not 10d6.

skywalker
2007-09-20, 04:01 PM
Righteous Might does not specify any types or other restrictions, so that would work on anything that could cast it.

I am away from my MIC at the moment, but if the belt does not have any type restrictions either it would obviously work too.

The belt specifies that it enlarges you as if by enlarge person.

Verdict?

EDIT:
Not actually a problem, but when you're not medium, Greataxe>Greatsword.

A larger than medium greatsword and a larger than medium greataxe are actually mathematically exactly the same.

Zincorium
2007-09-20, 04:07 PM
Goliath, less LA and still what you're looking for.


Same LA, same ability. You're probably thinking of half-ogre, which is large (why are half ogres bigger than half giants, when giants are bigger than ogres? No one knows.)

skywalker
2007-09-20, 04:10 PM
Same LA, same ability. You're probably thinking of half-ogre, which is large (why are half ogres bigger than half giants, when giants are bigger than ogres? No one knows.)

Because half-giants are naturally psionic? Because giants are closer to human physiology than ogres, giving the human blood more chance to assert itself? (I've honestly got no clue either).

Lord Lorac Silvanos
2007-09-20, 04:29 PM
The belt specifies that it enlarges you as if by enlarge person.

Verdict?


That would suggest a no, since Enlarge Person requires humanoids.

skywalker
2007-09-20, 04:41 PM
That would suggest a no, since Enlarge Person requires humanoids.

Yeah, I was mainly grappling with the "as if" language.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-09-20, 04:43 PM
(why are half ogres bigger than half giants, when giants are bigger than ogres? No one knows.)
Because half-ogres were given stats before people thought of creating an ability like powerful build.

...Eh?
2007-09-20, 04:44 PM
EDIT:

A larger than medium greatsword and a larger than medium greataxe are actually mathematically exactly the same.

And a greataxe costs far less, since costs for weapons above medium are doubled each time. So, with an powerful build werebear, it's a cost of 48g vs. 200g for almost the same effect.


Same LA, same ability. You're probably thinking of half-ogre, which is large (why are half ogres bigger than half giants, when giants are bigger than ogres? No one knows.)

Ah, you're right. Half-giants are and forever will be LA+2 in my mind, for reaosns I can't comprehend. Actually, though, a half-ogre might actually be better: LA+2 as opposed to LA+2 and 6HD, and it's always large,