Vampire feeding on Deva- Results?

[UnwiseAlistair]

So a vampire villain in my campaign has managed to capture a deva. Dimensional Shackles, bound wings and a planar binding. He doesn’t want to risk losing control of the deva so he doesn’t use it against his enemies directly. Thus the vampire decides to regularly feed on but not kill the bound angel.

My question for the board is what the affects of this could be. I’m not looking for a base rules as written answer, but rather creative ideas for the implications of a vampire regularly feeding on an angel.

[Unoriginal]

I don't think Deva have blood.

Probably would lead to a frustrated vampire who's *pretending* the Deva prisoner is empowering him as to not lose face, given how much investment capturing a live Deva would have taken.

[terodil]

I'm not sure about the blood thing, I'd probably just fluff it, maybe like the 'angel blood' you can see in the Diablo 3 cinematics (= glowy light stuff, e.g. in the act 4 opening cinematic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9wnu4FQO1A)).

I believe years ago there was such a situation in the PC game "Sacred" (or Sacred 2, not sure). The game itself sucked (and not in a good, vampiric, way), it was just a Diablo-like hack'n'slash. Still, one of the classes available to the player was the vampire. Now in this game, too, all vampires have lost their souls, but for the player vampire, sucking on an angel lead to her regaining a soul. She was still a vampire, but henceforth subject to the classic vampire angst. I can't recall if it was her own pre-vampire soul or if it was a new one infused with angelic goodness. The angel goaded her into this, by the way, and sacrificed herself to redeem the vampire. The vampire went on a rampage to clear the world of evil, partly out of guilt for killing the angel.

That actually leads me to speculating on the effect of a vampire bite on the Deva, assuming it didn't die from it: Could a Deva 'fall'? I mean we have precedent of angels falling: Zariel (see Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes), formerly angel, now one of the Nine Lords. I'd not expect a lousy vampire bite to be enough to corrupt the goodness in a deva, still, it could introduce complications, should the deva ever be freed. While not evil, she might have issues with the rigorous tenets of her home and take up a life of wandering amongst mortals and helping where she can.

[Unoriginal]

That actually leads me to speculating on the effect of a vampire bite on the Deva, assuming it didn't die from it: Could a Deva 'fall'? I mean we have precedent of angels falling: Zariel (see Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes), formerly angel, now one of the Nine Lords. I'd not expect a lousy vampire bite to be enough to corrupt the goodness in a deva, still, it could introduce complications, should the deva ever be freed. While not evil, she might have issues with the rigorous tenets of her home and take up a life of wandering amongst mortals and helping where she can.

I doubt that those circumstances would cause the Deva to doubt their tenets or to fall. Angel's goodness is sturdy stuff.

[nickl_2000]

What if instead of the vampire corrupting the deva, the deva's blood actually turned the vampire good?

I'm thinking an NPC who is mentally torn and struggling with the morality of a situation. Holding the Deva prisoner and feeding on it is an evil act, but by doing so the vampire gains extra powers that allow it to hunt other vampires and evil creature (a blade like situation).

[terodil]

I doubt that those circumstances would cause the Deva to doubt their tenets or to fall. Angel's goodness is sturdy stuff.
As I said, I agree, I don't believe falling as in 'turning completely evil' is anywhere in the result space. But consider this for a second:

[...] Remember a deva lives in a realm of absolute law and good. The deva might not understand the compromises and hard choices that mortals must grapple with in the world. To the deva, as aasimar is a prized student who must live up to high, sometimes inflexible, standards.
I don't think that it'd be completely out of the question that such a contact opens the deva's eyes. Again, I doubt she would waver from Good, but she could catch a glimpse of what it means to be mortal and of how absurdly rigid those tenets are. Such a chink in the stone, such a seed of doubt is a very powerful force. Despite her still being (L)G with two capitals, she'd turn into an abomination in the eyes of her former comrades who would accept nothing less than absolute devotion. She'd no longer be welcome. Hence my suggestion that she might take up the role of a more active, and more understanding, protector of L and G amongst mortals.

[Millstone85]

Angels are 60% holy water.

[Unoriginal]

As I said, I agree, I don't believe falling as in 'turning completely evil' is anywhere in the result space. But consider this for a second:

I don't think that it'd be completely out of the question that such a contact opens the deva's eyes. Again, I doubt she would waver from Good, but she could catch a glimpse of what it means to be mortal and of how absurdly rigid those tenets are. Such a chink in the stone, such a seed of doubt is a very powerful force. Despite her still being (L)G with two capitals, she'd turn into an abomination in the eyes of her former comrades who would accept nothing less than absolute devotion. She'd no longer be welcome. Hence my suggestion that she might take up the role of a more active, and more understanding, protector of L and G amongst mortals.

Eh, I personally wouldn't make it that way. Sure it could let her understand the mortals better, but not in a way that'd cause her to doubt.

An experience like that doesn't have to be a chink in the stone. I'd rather say the other Deva would consider her wiser for being able to emphatize with mortals better. They don't have to agree with her, but she could be able to translate the "this is how mortals see it" better.

[terodil]

They don't have to agree with her, [...].
But isn't this the entire 'shtick' of devas? I don't think 'disagreement with one another' is in their option space. Either it's 100% LG or it's bad.

I understand your position, though. I guess it simply comes down to what kind of story you wish to tell. I personally don't like perfect alignments and would make use of this chance to broaden the colour palette, but it's an entirely fair point to have the deva completely unaffected.

@Millstone: That's brilliant.

[Unoriginal]

But isn't this the entire 'shtick' of devas? I don't think 'disagreement with one another' is in their option space. Either it's 100% LG or it's bad.

Two 100% lawful good can disagree and still be 100% lawful good. Devas are still individuals with their own thought processes. Two Aasimar Deva guides may disagree on what would be the best course of action, but they'd recognize the other is also 100% lawful good.



I understand your position, though. I guess it simply comes down to what kind of story you wish to tell. I personally don't like perfect alignments and would make use of this chance to broaden the colour palette

I for one think that people tend to go too far with the whole "angels aren't that good" thing. Something I like about 5e is that it takes something *huge* to make angels fall.


but it's an entirely fair point to have the deva completely unaffected.

I'm not advocating for the deva to be completely unaffected, or even relatively unaffected. I'm just saying there are other ways to be affected than "Deva's faith is shaken and she becomes an outcast among her people".

I don't recall which module, but I know that there is one 5e module where a Deva ends up chaotic good due to the horrors inflicted to them during captivity. That fits this character, but there are other paths to explore.


Angels are 60% holy water.



@Millstone: That's brilliant.

Like when Dracula drank Superman's blood. The sun-powered Superman's blood.

I thought about it, but "vampire kills themselves drinking a deva's blood" isn't really an exciting adventure.

Unless it's a "the kidnapper is dead, you have to rescue the victim before they die" situation, or a situation where the PCs are fighting a vampire group, and the leader goes "behold, as I become a god!" as they drink the deva's blood during a ritual, then they explode and the rest of the group decides to fight.

[carrdrivesyou]

I would think that a vampire may become resistant to sunlight or radiant damage by feeding on any sort of celestial (not an aasimar or summoned monster).
With prolonged periods of drinking, he may become entirely immune.
Perhaps the vampire would become a good person, or be forced under Geas to fill the angel's place in service to its deity.

As for the angel, I would think that since it isn't being turned, it would just become weakened.
With more feedings, the angel would slowly become mortal, eventually turning into a protector aasimar.
Maybe its deity would banish it from its home realm and they are then forced to become some sort of world phenomenon.

[dejarnjc]

There's a Deva in this module that was corrupted by the vampire Strahd and the Dark Powers over a hundred years or so. Strahd played on the Deva's pride and its obsession to do so. There's no info about the Deva's blood sadly. IMO the Deva would be weakened by the daily feedings and the vampire's alignment may to slowly start changing as he's consuming a being of law and good.

[terodil]

I for one think that people tend to go too far with the whole "angels aren't that good" thing. Something I like about 5e is that it takes something *huge* to make angels fall.
Fair enough. NB: I'm not saying that they aren't good. I think the difference in opinion comes from what each of us understands by "100% good". I like to think that the difference between 100% good and 100% evil is much smaller than what their relative positions on the alignment axis might suggest. But this is a discussion for some other time!

[Bloodcloud]

A vampire who gained sunlight/radiant resist from deva blood absorbtion but was also horribly scarred/holy burned by drinking the 60% holy water blood could be a compelling and memorable vilain. The experience almost killed him, but now he is stronger than ever!

[Wildarm]

In general for an interesting villian you want to have a motive for their actions and a result of those actions(or potential actions) that creates a bias for action by the players.

For a Vampire that was feeding on a Deva. A lot would depend on how you flavor vampirism in your campaign. For me, I would say he's feeding on the Deva to allow him to ignore his sunlight weakness and with enough blood to bypass a critical area with a Hallow effect. Maybe to get access so some holy relic.

The side effect of this is he is being driven mad and some of his vampiric powers are failing. Namely regeneration and/or shapechange. RP him having some loss of control of his form. Some Angelic/Demonic hybrid appearance. Visible pain. This guy is going through a lot of pain to accomplish his goal.

Players are called because the local high priest has received a vision from his Diety of the Deva chained and in agony and seeking the players help to find and rescue him. Players infiltrate the base defeating the vampires minions. Freeing the weakened Deva, he returns to the planes to heal and warns the group of the vampires plan. They rush back to the temple to find things in chaos. Lower priests converted to vampire spawn, undead pouring forth from graves, etc. Climax has the group breaking into the anti-chamber to find the vampire standing holding the body of the high priest aloft and the Holy Relic in his hand(giving him whatever special power you want).

Edit: Bonus flavor - Relic is a Holy Avenger Sword passed down through the generations by a certain family who's last living blood relation has died. Swords magic is keyed to that bloodline. Vampire is an ancient ancestor of the family and longs to be re-united with the sword he once wielded. Functions as an Unholy Avenger +3 in his hands. If they defeat him, as he's dying he reverts to his once good self for a moment and tells the group the family line has not ended... Good hook for next adventure.

[stoutstien]

You get your funding pulled and immediate visit by the ethics committee.

[Ganymede]

The vampire would get dilated eyes, he'd get really touchy-feely for an hour or so, and maybe his undead heart would beat a couple times.

[ImproperJustice]

Personally?

I think the Vampire should burst into flames a brief moment after trying to feed.

An angel is the closest thing to divine goodness you can get in 5th edition.
Trying to consume it’s blood / life essence seems like a quick path to death for a vampire.

Of course people are free to draw their own conclusions, but I think that would be my opinion.

[nickl_2000]

Personally?

I think the Vampire should burst into flames a brief moment after trying to feed.

An angel is the closest thing to divine goodness you can get in 5th edition.
Trying to consume it’s blood / life essence seems like a quick path to death for a vampire.

Of course people are free to draw their own conclusions, but I think that would be my opinion.

This would probably be the most likely result, but it doesn't make for a very good BBEG or narrative :smallbiggrin:

[hymer]

You get your funding pulled and immediate visit by the ethics committee.
"Your behaviour plays to the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your feedings are highly questionable. You are a poor vampire, Count Venkman!"

[ImproperJustice]

This would probably be the most likely result, but it doesn't make for a very good BBEG or narrative :smallbiggrin:

True but what if for a twist, he weaponized the Devas blood to begin taking out other vampire rivals, and begins rising to power as a result.

[carrdrivesyou]

In general for an interesting villian you want to have a motive for their actions and a result of those actions(or potential actions) that creates a bias for action by the players.

For a Vampire that was feeding on a Deva. A lot would depend on how you flavor vampirism in your campaign. For me, I would say he's feeding on the Deva to allow him to ignore his sunlight weakness and with enough blood to bypass a critical area with a Hallow effect. Maybe to get access so some holy relic.

The side effect of this is he is being driven mad and some of his vampiric powers are failing. Namely regeneration and/or shapechange. RP him having some loss of control of his form. Some Angelic/Demonic hybrid appearance. Visible pain. This guy is going through a lot of pain to accomplish his goal.

Players are called because the local high priest has received a vision from his Diety of the Deva chained and in agony and seeking the players help to find and rescue him. Players infiltrate the base defeating the vampires minions. Freeing the weakened Deva, he returns to the planes to heal and warns the group of the vampires plan. They rush back to the temple to find things in chaos. Lower priests converted to vampire spawn, undead pouring forth from graves, etc. Climax has the group breaking into the anti-chamber to find the vampire standing holding the body of the high priest aloft and the Holy Relic in his hand(giving him whatever special power you want).

Edit: Bonus flavor - Relic is a Holy Avenger Sword passed down through the generations by a certain family who's last living blood relation has died. Swords magic is keyed to that bloodline. Vampire is an ancient ancestor of the family and longs to be re-united with the sword he once wielded. Functions as an Unholy Avenger +3 in his hands. If they defeat him, as he's dying he reverts to his once good self for a moment and tells the group the family line has not ended... Good hook for next adventure.

This sounds like an excellent adventure mod. I might use this in the future.

[KorvinStarmast]

What if instead of the vampire corrupting the deva, the deva's blood actually turned the vampire good? Yeha, or every time the Vamp drinks, it takes 2d4 radiant damage.
Vamps regenerate, so no big deal, but it tastes good ... but it hurts!

[Ganymede]

Yeha, or every time the Vamp drinks, it takes 2d4 radiant damage.
Vamps regenerate, so no big deal, but it tastes good ... but it hurts!

We live in a world where people inject botulism into their faces, and our world isn't even a fantasy world. This seems legit to me.

[Son of A Lich!]

This almost reads like puppy kicking to me. Y'know, Evil for the sake of being Evil.

I mean, it tracks... Vamps suck blood, Vamps are evil, Devas are good, and hypothetically have blood...

But...

Okay, I have to admit, this is an interesting question. Not because of what it could do for our Vampire, but what else could a vampire drain and get perks from.



I would run it something like an addiction from 3.0 (3.5? When did BoVD come out?). Starts out with some really useful, but the more you use it, the more it hurts you. I'm sure Vamps are immune to poisons, but I think this can be made a special exception.

I think a charisma save makes the most sense to me (I subscribe to the idea that Vampires drink soul stuff by blood, and it would make sense to me that their force of personality has to overcome the negative effects of the righteousness they are consuming. Otherwise, you could use Con save as normal; makes no difference to me.)

So, upon initially drinking the blood, he gains a temporary boost to resisting radiant damage, and the damage or save he has to make against sunlight is drastically reduced. This lasts for 24 hours.

With each drink, he has to make a save against (Sorry, away from books right now) ([1/2? Maybe]Deva's Hit dice + Charisma Modifier + 10) to avoid being consumed by the holy power. If he fails the first one, he becomes addicted and must consume each day or save against the Blood in withdrawal, without the benefits.

If he has failed 3 of these saves, his skin starts to crackle, he is unable to sleep, and Shadows start to hurt as badly as light does (While not denoting the game rules of what a shadow is, but magical darkness creates the same effects as natural daylight). Other cosmetic effects start to take over. His summoned ravens are bleached white, he summons squirrels instead of rats and Hounds instead of dogs.

If he fails 5 saves, he becomes obsessed with the idea of purity and law, while denying him acting on behalf of 'Good' specifically. He starts to feel sickened by his spawn and yearns for solitary. His regeneration fails him if he is not in sunlight (Which he can survive due to the effects of the blood... assuming he is drinking it daily). He becomes enthralled with the idea of the safety and future of his underlings, but can't figure a means to keep them from their cycle of self destruction.

After 10 failed saving throws, I would just say he is compelled to redeem himself in undeath for what he has done as a vampire lord, and upon completely undoing his evil acts he is resurrected as an appropriately leveled paladin of devotion.

And the Deva flippin' admits that she let him consume her blood, knowing this would happen. Who knew that evil half-undead creatures of the night shouldn't accept pseudo-communion of an entity of day and holy power?

That... That's how I would run this. This just screams "bad idea" on so many levels.

[JackPhoenix]

Snip

Diablo angels aren't D&D angels and don't even have proper physical bodies (they are pretty much empty suit of armor with energy wings).

Sacred's Seraphim aren't D&D angels. They are proper living creatures technomagically improved/created by the precursor race. Lot of their "magic" is actually sufficiently advanced technology.

But if we're going with WotC's intellectual properties, MtG angels also aren't D&D angels, but the origin of Innistrad vampires lies with an alchemist drinking angel's blood on advice of a demon, and then sharing it with a bunch of friends.

[stoutstien]

Reminds me of a Carpenter film waiting to happen