Harmonious Knight Question

[Ursus Spelaeus]

This regards the Harmonious Knight substitution levels for Paladins (Champions of Valor web enhancement, p.2) and Perform (Weapon Drill) (Complete Warrior, p.121).

The rules state that a bard cannot use Perform (Weapon Drill) checks to perform bardic music abilities. The spirit of the rule would seem to preclude other classes from using Perform (Weapon Drill) to perform their own music abilities (and that's how I would probably interpret it if I were GM'ing. The literal rules as written, however, would seem to allow it.

Thoughts?

[Saintheart]

As I read the RAW, Harmonious Knight doesn't actually grant you bardic music. It grants you a small bunch of abilities which look a hell of a lot like a Bard's music, but they don't advance by levels and nowhere do they say the abilities function precisely as a bard's do. They don't contain the requirement to have a Perform check to actually use them, you specifically sing war songs that give a +1 to attack and damage, once per day. No Perform check - whether Weapon Drill or otherwise - seems to be required to actually use them. The Inspire Competence and Inspire Greatness require ranks in Perform to access them, so if you had Perform (Weapon Drill) I guess that could work to qualify for them, but you wouldn't have to make a perform check to use them.

If you were a bard/paladin with Initiate of Milil, there might be a case for it since that allows bard and paladin levels to stack for the purposes of determining what bardic music uses you have, but I think it's something you'd just have to ask your DM to fiat through on coolness.

[Ursus Spelaeus]

Ah. So, if it's not actually bardic music, I won't be able to use Dragonfire Inspiration or Song of the White Raven with it?

[Saintheart]

Ah. So, if it's not actually bardic music, I won't be able to use Dragonfire Inspiration or Song of the White Raven with it?

Not on the RAW as I read it, though a more generous DM might fiat it through. That said, it'd be cool to see what a Warblard build would look like. And there are a few funky Heisenberg's Uncertainty Bardic Music things (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?142638-3-5-Harmonious-Crescent-Moon-Knight-and-Bard-PrCs)you can do depending on where you're taking the build.

[Ursus Spelaeus]

Not on the RAW as I read it, though a more generous DM might fiat it through. That said, it'd be cool to see what a Warblard build would look like. And there are a few funky Heisenberg's Uncertainty Bardic Music things (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?142638-3-5-Harmonious-Crescent-Moon-Knight-and-Bard-PrCs)you can do depending on where you're taking the build.

Thanks! Looking at that thread has given me an idea for a build using Crusader 5 and Knight of the Weave 1 with Versatile Spellcaster to get into Jade Phoenix Mage.