Is it really ok if the Villain flees?

[Sweetishcross]

Hi!

Me and my friends are new to D&D. I have the PHB and was tasked with running our first dungeon. I built the whole thing from scratch and tried to have diverse experiences
in the first campaign to show how many possibilities there are with this game. The thing is, I believe the difficulty of the Villain might be exaggerated for their level. Due to their actions at the first part of the game I'll have an embush ready for the players when they reach the final area so the combat will be rough already. I had planned for a bigger creature before the Villain fight but I'm not sure if I'll burn them out and eventually getting them killed over my inexperience.
I'm using quasits, dretch and maybe a Shadow Demon, all from the monster manual. The Villain is a Drow Mage whose plan is to bring Lolth to their plane, rise her army and destroy the world for her to rule (it's cliché I know), he lso belongs to a cult so he's not working alone. It's perfectly logical to have him flee from combat if his minions are destroyed and his ritual boycotted but I fear it might be a bit disappointing for the players if they lose him even after all the combat they went through.
In your opinion, would you be disappointed if the Villain of your game was to flee?

Thanks for you time and apologies for both the long text and any mistakes in my English.

[mephnick]

A villian should flee if given the opportunity. The important part from the DM's perspective is that the party should be able to stop them...if they can.

If you're level 3 and have no way to stop a bad guy from Dimension Door-ing out of the temple...too bad. They'll get mad and vow to get him next time. But, if they paralyze him and kill him with crits before he can get the spell off...you have to let that happen. They earned it.

Once you get to high levels, if the party doesn't bring a way to lock down teleporting, plane-shifting or ethereal-hopping villians..that's their own fault.

[hymer]

Recurring villains are great. Just be sure to spell it out to the PCs that they won this round. It wasn't a knockout, so the fight will go on some time later, but stopping the ritual is definitely a victory to the PCs.
Have the villain curse the meddling kids PCs as he flees, or whatever you need to do to make it clear that the PCs won. Friendly NPCs praising their victory works, too. Oh, and have the villain leave behind some treasure, that always sweetens the players. :smallbiggrin:

One thing more: If you are worried that the enemies will be too much, don't introduce them all at once. You can hold back some quasits and dretches from an encounter, and have them arrive due to the sounds of battle a little later - and only if it turns out the fight is too easy. This is a lot more practical than making a fight easier part-way through.

Edit: Just want to add my agreement to Mephnick's point about letting the PCs kill the villain if they manage it fair and square. But I get the feeling you were going to do that anyway.

[Pelle]

Fleeing villains is fine, just don't bend the rules/fiction to make it happen.

You know your players best if this is something they will enjoy, though.

[Sigreid]

Agree with the others. It's fine for the villain to try to get away, but don't do anything hinkey to make sure that happens. As a player, I do everything I can to prevent opponents from getting away, but it's part of the game to me to try to stop that. I often express this as "Rule number 2, double tap. I'm not interested in rematches".

[Man_Over_Game]

Official modules have enemies survive the first encounter almost every time. In Hoard of the Dragon Queen The players are pitted against a badass who kills hostages if he's not engaged 1v1. In almost any reasonable scenario, he either kills the hostages (because the players cheated), or he puts your friend in the Dying condition. You are supposed to kill him later, and the game has suggestions in case he dies to maintain the plot. A similar thing happens later with a Wizard who flees through a teleporter.

So don't worry too much about enemies fleeing. If the target dies, come up with a backup plan for what happens. Maybe the target has a Clone that was gifted to him by his dark lord, or maybe his soul returns to his mostly unfinished phylactery (with some side effects). Maybe he has a replacement, or a rival planned on him risking too much (maybe coaxed the villain into doing so) so that the rival can take his place.

[JNAProductions]

Not every villain should flee. The crazed zealot who's temple you just destroyed... Yeah, they're gonna fight you to the last.

But the cunning mastermind who's plan you just foiled? They're gonna flee if they can.

As others have said-don't bend or break the rules to let them escape, but if the players can't catch them, they make it out. I will agree with the sentiment that you should make clear the players' victory, though.

[mephnick]

I will agree with the sentiment that you should make clear the players' victory, though.

Yeah that's important. They still stopped the ritual and saved the day. They may need to stop another ritual later, but at that moment they're still heroes.

[Unoriginal]

I second what was said by the posters above.

If villains don't have a reason to stick around (even something like "too angry to think clearly", "too arrogant to admit defeat" or even "they'll be killed for their failure so they have to keep trying"), or if the PCs are weak enough they can be defeated despite the villain's goals being rekt, then the villain would flee and try again another day.

But the escape has to be legit. A DM has to accept that a villain may just die rather than escaping.


A quick comment on your scenario: you do things like you wish for your setting, of course, but normally undertaking something like summoning Lolth would be utterly massive. Lolth has archmages and high priestesses under her service, and none of them summon her.

Admittedly it could be because she doesn't *want* to be summoned: Lolth prefers getting other Demon Princes to be summoned to other Planes, and then take over their domains in the Abyss. Maybe having the Mage be manipulated by a different entity who wants to hijack the ritual could be interesting?

In any case, what I meant is that your villain would probably only be at the beginning of the project to be thwarted by relatively low-level PCs. So at this stage it makes sense to flee. It's not like he was on the final step and could still complete the thing if the PCs were defeated.

[Callak_Remier]

I usually give my villians atleast 1 leuitenant to stay and hold the party at bay while the Villian runs off to do the "thing" with the you know what.

The goal of most parties is to murder hobo thier way through like a video game. It gets interesting when you make the villian an evil cleric. Since you can start bringing back lieutenants who hate the party.

[Bloodcloud]

Make sure you are ready when they somehow kill it before it flees...

[Honest Tiefling]

As long as the villain flees legitimately, go for it. In some ways, I think some players would find a battle more satisfying if there was a chance that the villain could have fled, but didn't.


Make sure you are ready when they somehow kill it before it flees...

Yeeeeaaaaah, I'd plan for both outcomes, because nothing is more unpredictable than a player character with a plan. They might try to capture it or something, just make sure you are prepped for both instances.

[Sweetishcross]

Thanks everyone! Specially for the advice in reinforcing the PC's victory even if they don't catch him, I'll work on that!
Just to clarify I always intended to let them fight the Villain, catch or kill him and hadn't even considered him fleeing until someone said it in some tutorials for new DMs. I just thought the level of difficulty I was putting in was too high so I considered fleeing to be the best option. The thought was reinforced when they had a lot trouble with two quasits they caught by surprise... Reading your answers I think I'll adapt and let it play out.
Overall with your advice, I think I'll break up the combat at the ambush in two (the 1st easier than the 2nd), have the Villain summon his strongest demon, let them fight it and stop the ritual. Then the Villain, angry in his failure, will try to flee spouting insults and threats to them but if they stop him in any way I'll let it play out :)
Oh and to the person who recommended rewards I already have an hidden room prepared with collectibles that belonged to the Villain and also an NPC that will forge them some cool weapons :D

Thanks again for your help!

[Keravath]

Depending on the levels, classes and capabilties of your players a drow mage can be a very challenging opponent.

[Sweetishcross]

Maybe having the Mage be manipulated by a different entity who wants to hijack the ritual could be interesting?

.


I don't really know much about Lolth lore since I only read the small text about her in the monster manual so you're probably right having her summoned just like that by some mages might be too easy. Also, this was supposed to be a small one shot but I got a bit carried away with the plot xD

I'll take it into consideration and maybe the plot will thicken in further adventures!

Thanks!

[MaxWilson]

Hi!

Me and my friends are new to D&D. I have the PHB and was tasked with running our first dungeon. I built the whole thing from scratch and tried to have diverse experiences
in the first campaign to show how many possibilities there are with this game. The thing is, I believe the difficulty of the Villain might be exaggerated for their level. Due to their actions at the first part of the game I'll have an embush ready for the players when they reach the final area so the combat will be rough already. I had planned for a bigger creature before the Villain fight but I'm not sure if I'll burn them out and eventually getting them killed over my inexperience.
I'm using quasits, dretch and maybe a Shadow Demon, all from the monster manual. The Villain is a Drow Mage whose plan is to bring Lolth to their plane, rise her army and destroy the world for her to rule (it's cliché I know), he lso belongs to a cult so he's not working alone. It's perfectly logical to have him flee from combat if his minions are destroyed and his ritual boycotted but I fear it might be a bit disappointing for the players if they lose him even after all the combat they went through.
In your opinion, would you be disappointed if the Villain of your game was to flee?

Thanks for you time and apologies for both the long text and any mistakes in my English.

If they manage to cut off his retreat and kill him, their reward is no longer having to worry about their enemy showing up someday at an inconvenient time (e.g. when they're already in a tough fight with something else).

If you do it right (set the precedent beforehand that enemies that flee remain active), having the mage flee will be nerve-wracking for the players instead of disappointing. It's an unsolved problem just waiting to bite them back someday. <evil grin>

[Mad Nomad]

I'll add to the many voices saying DO NOT have the villain escape by solely by DM fiat. If he escapes fairly, that's fine, but to have him escape regardless of the players' actions is extremely unfair to them, and can be very detrimental to group morale.

I'm speaking from experience on this subject. I once played in a campaign that was more of a guided tour than a game. The DM already had his story planned out, and nothing us players could do would change the outcome. Add in some extremely overpowered DMPCs that were supposed to be "helping" the group, and it quickly became clear that we were just along for the ride. It was one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had.

It's also completely unnecessary. The players don't know the entire plot line, so even if they manage to kill this BBEG, it's easy to add another behind the scenes so that the story continues. If done properly, it should seem like this was the plan all along, and the current BBEG was just a henchman for the new BBEG, or perhaps the new BBEG was sent to clean up the mess after the first one was killed. Either way, this is best done behind the scenes, rather than overtly preventing the players from being able to kill or capture the villian.

If you prevent the players' actions from having any effect on the outcome, don't be surprised if they stop caring completely.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Will this villain have a chance to recur? That is to say, is this the end of the campaign or is there more to come?

[MaxWilson]

I'll add to the many voices saying DO NOT have the villain escape by solely by DM fiat. If he escapes fairly, that's fine, but to have him escape regardless of the players' actions is extremely unfair to them, and can be very detrimental to group morale.

I'm speaking from experience on this subject. I once played in a campaign that was more of a guided tour than a game. The DM already had his story planned out, and nothing us players could do would change the outcome. Add in some extremely overpowered DMPCs that were supposed to be "helping" the group, and it quickly became clear that we were just along for the ride. It was one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had.

It's also completely unnecessary. The players don't know the entire plot line, so even if they manage to kill this BBEG, it's easy to add another behind the scenes so that the story continues. If done properly, it should seem like this was the plan all along, and the current BBEG was just a henchman for the new BBEG, or perhaps the new BBEG was sent to clean up the mess after the first one was killed. Either way, this is best done behind the scenes, rather than overtly preventing the players from being able to kill or capture the villian.

If you prevent the players' actions from having any effect on the outcome, don't be surprised if they stop caring completely.

Agreed. And it's not like 5E doesn't have resurrection magic, so if you have reasons for wanting this particular bad guy to recur, you can always just declare the existence of a Big Bad who goes around stirring up trouble by giving other bad guys access to Clone or Resurrection spells. All it takes is one bad dude with Wish and a knowledge of dead bad guys and a reason to want them alive again.

Taking down The Mad Resurrectionist will be very satisfying to the players, some day.