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View Full Version : [3.5] Spells/abilities that "paint targets"



Zaq
2018-11-23, 12:50 PM
What interesting spells and other powers/abilities/tricks are out there that target enemies but then make it better/easier for your allies to attack said enemies? Ideally I'd like to keep the discussion focused on spells/etc. that have an intended primary purpose of making said enemies more susceptible to your allies' attacks—I mean, anything that can penalize DEX can penalize AC, but we don't necessarily need to list every single way to inflict the Fatigued condition unless you really feel like it. (I guess I won't stop you, but that's not my primary goal today.)

Again, I'm not looking for buffs that target allies. I'm looking for stuff that you cast (or use) on/at your enemies and then tell your allies to hit that one, not just "here you go Mr. Barbarian, you're better at killin' dudes now, so go kill whatever dudes you can reach."

That said, making it better for your allies to attack the target doesn't only have to mean "penalty to AC." Something that, for example, increases the damage the target takes from attacks might also be interesting, if such a thing exists. (We could discuss saving throw penalties, but to be honest, we'd probably be here all day.) Or something neat like Mark of Judgment (not Mark of Justice), which rewards allies for hitting the target more than punishing the target for being hit.

This isn't necessarily for a specific character or an immediate project, at least not right now. I just think it's interesting, especially in the context of a "leader" character who gives allies a reason to focus on someone.

To list a few examples to start us off, here's a few quick entries from the Spell Compendium:

Guiding Light (Sor/Wiz, Brd, Clr 1): Bonus to ranged attacks against creatures in area.
Curse of Impending Blades (Sor/Wiz, Brd, Rgr 2): Penalty to AC. Mass version at level 3.
Scale Weakening (Sor/Wiz 2): Penalty to natural AC.

A few examples from PHB2 as well:

Mark of Judgment (Clr 2): Allies who hit the target heal themselves.
Curse of Arrow Attraction (Clr 3, Rgr 2, Sor/Wiz 3): Big penalty to AC against ranged attacks.

Semi-honorable mention to Seeking Ray, which makes your follow-up attacks easier but that doesn't give your allies a new incentive to attack the target you want them to attack.

What else is out there? This list is extremely partial right now. I know there's a ton of stuff in ToB, there's a few utterances (okay, just to get them out of the way, Reversed Defensive Edge and Reversed Mystic Rampart), I'm sure there's other spells, and so on. Please help me compile this list, and I think the discussion should be interesting!

ViperMagnum357
2018-11-23, 12:57 PM
Faerie Fire and Glitterdust from the PHB. mostly for outlining Invisible enemies, but they have other uses when concealment effects are in play.

Nifft
2018-11-23, 12:58 PM
Targeting Ray (SpC) is an obvious one.

Faerie Fire (SRD) negates specific concealment conditions and can single out a target or two, if all available targets had benefited from the negated concealment conditions.

Glitterdust (SRD) blinds a target, which reduces its AC and enables specific attack-oriented class abilities (e.g. Sneak Attack).

Thunder999
2018-11-23, 02:08 PM
Blindness/deafness and glitterdust both impose a heavy AC penalty (via the blind condition), anything that causes sickened, any form of fear, anything that causes a penalty to dex or dex damage, anything that renders them flat footed. That's probably a large chunk of your typical debuffs and battlefield control spells.

Zaq
2018-11-23, 02:51 PM
Targeting Ray (SpC) is an obvious one.

Faerie Fire (SRD) negates specific concealment conditions and can single out a target or two, if all available targets had benefited from the negated concealment conditions.

Glitterdust (SRD) blinds a target, which reduces its AC and enables specific attack-oriented class abilities (e.g. Sneak Attack).

I was looking for Targeting Ray, and I think my eyes passed over it several times without finding it. Weird, right? But that's exactly the kind of thing I'm after.



Blindness/deafness and glitterdust both impose a heavy AC penalty (via the blind condition), anything that causes sickened, any form of fear, anything that causes a penalty to dex or dex damage, anything that renders them flat footed. That's probably a large chunk of your typical debuffs and battlefield control spells.

Sickened, shaken, and frightened don't impose a penalty to AC, just to saves. Save penalties are useful, but they're not necessarily the primary goal today. Blind isn't a bad condition to inflict in general and can be useful here, but I'm hoping we can find more. Same with prone, really; it's a good part of the control package and does make people easier to hit in melee, but how much of a target it paints on someone's back is usually a secondary consideration. (I'm not saying that I ONLY want to care about target-painting, but I'm also trying to help us find some specifics and not just some generalities.)

What spells do you know of that make enemies flat-footed without going through another condition (like blinded, which technically denies DEX rather than imposing flat-footed) or another situation (like balancing without 5 ranks in Balance), ideally for attackers other than you? I guess there's Distract Assailant (SPC: Asn 1, Sor/Wiz 1: swift action to cast; target flat-footed until its next action). Is there anything else that's so specific? Or anything that has a specific duration that would override the general rule of "flat-footedness goes away when you take an action"?

Asmotherion
2018-11-23, 03:05 PM
Other than the mentioned.

Though quite cheezy; A casting of Shivering Touch (Greater) will probably result in an AC penalty for the target even if not full paralisation. Also buffs your own probability to deliver with Reflex Save spells.

Necrotic skull bomb deals 1d4 AoE Negative Levels. it's Spell Resistant and Fortitude Negates but negative levels delivered are a great way to change an encounter from Deadly to Trivial for the party. Bonus if you control your own undead you buff them with temporary HP.

Hold X line of spells... And especially the mass versions. Couple that with summon undead 4 or 5 to summon an allip or 2 to damage their wisdom severaly just to be sure they boach that Will save. Then have your party do the honors of coup de gracing the encounter. This again is worse against Spell Resistance.

Solid Fog etc can remove many things from the encounter allowing your collegues to focus on one thing at a time all together. Accid/Freezing fog punishes the things in it so that when they're in the encounter again they're either dead or a turn away from dying so that your party will have it easy finishing the job. And no spell resistance or save allowed.

Necromancy has a lot of jewels that debuff targets in a way they are indirectly easyer to die. Some in the form of spells wile others in the form of creatures you create with spells that have a touch attack or other ability that bestows negative levels or ability drain/damage (that is relative to the build of your party member; The Bard will appreciate your allips a lot wile the Fighter will want his own Shadow).

That's the most basics. Have in mind what resists what such as Spell Resistance (and which of your spells it applies to/how to bypass it with the right spells) or what creatures are imune to your necromancy debuffs (mostly undead but also some fiends and constructs as well as other stuff) or which creatures are imune to mind affecting effects for example (the hold x line is such an effect).

Nifft
2018-11-23, 03:23 PM
I was looking for Targeting Ray, and I think my eyes passed over it several times without finding it. Weird, right? But that's exactly the kind of thing I'm after. Cool.



Sickened, shaken, and frightened don't impose a penalty to AC, just to saves. Save penalties are useful, but they're not necessarily the primary goal today. Blind isn't a bad condition to inflict in general and can be useful here, but I'm hoping we can find more. Same with prone, really; it's a good part of the control package and does make people easier to hit in melee, but how much of a target it paints on someone's back is usually a secondary consideration. (I'm not saying that I ONLY want to care about target-painting, but I'm also trying to help us find some specifics and not just some generalities.)

What spells do you know of that make enemies flat-footed without going through another condition (like blinded, which technically denies DEX rather than imposing flat-footed) or another situation (like balancing without 5 ranks in Balance), ideally for attackers other than you? I guess there's Distract Assailant (SPC: Asn 1, Sor/Wiz 1: swift action to cast; target flat-footed until its next action). Is there anything else that's so specific? Or anything that has a specific duration that would override the general rule of "flat-footedness goes away when you take an action"?

Phantasmal Assailants (SpC) inflicts up to 8 Wis damage and 8 Dex damage.

Phantasmal Strangler (SpC) inflicts Grappling, which denies Dex to AC -- and allies don't risk stabbing the spell.

Phantom Foe (SpC) and Phantom Threat (SpC) can both make a creature count as flanked, which gives a bonus (and enables Sneak Attack etc.).


The Entangled condition imposes a -4 Dexterity penalty (in addition to the -2 attack penalty). The entangle spell is large so that might not be relevant for melee allies (who can't reach an Entangled foe without entering the spell), but the power entangling ectoplasm offers a useful low-level way to apply the condition.

Particle_Man
2018-11-23, 03:30 PM
Arguably Grease. A prone opponent is easier to hit with melee attacks (but harder to hit with ranged ones).

Similarly, Summon Monster X can give a flank attack bonus vs. a particular opponent if you have a melee buddy in the right place.

Zaq
2018-11-23, 03:45 PM
Other than the mentioned.

Though quite cheezy; A casting of Shivering Touch (Greater) will probably result in an AC penalty for the target even if not full paralisation. Also buffs your own probability to deliver with Reflex Save spells.

Necrotic skull bomb deals 1d4 AoE Negative Levels. it's Spell Resistant and Fortitude Negates but negative levels delivered are a great way to change an encounter from Deadly to Trivial for the party. Bonus if you control your own undead you buff them with temporary HP.

Hold X line of spells... And especially the mass versions. Couple that with summon undead 4 or 5 to summon an allip or 2 to damage their wisdom severaly just to be sure they boach that Will save. Then have your party do the honors of coup de gracing the encounter. This again is worse against Spell Resistance.

Solid Fog etc can remove many things from the encounter allowing your collegues to focus on one thing at a time all together. Accid/Freezing fog punishes the things in it so that when they're in the encounter again they're either dead or a turn away from dying so that your party will have it easy finishing the job. And no spell resistance or save allowed.

Necromancy has a lot of jewels that debuff targets in a way they are indirectly easyer to die. Some in the form of spells wile others in the form of creatures you create with spells that have a touch attack or other ability that bestows negative levels or ability drain/damage (that is relative to the build of your party member; The Bard will appreciate your allips a lot wile the Fighter will want his own Shadow).

That's the most basics. Have in mind what resists what such as Spell Resistance (and which of your spells it applies to/how to bypass it with the right spells) or what creatures are imune to your necromancy debuffs (mostly undead but also some fiends and constructs as well as other stuff) or which creatures are imune to mind affecting effects for example (the hold x line is such an effect).

Shivering Touch is fine, I suppose.

Negative levels don't inflict AC penalties, weirdly enough. I checked. Which makes sense when you consider that AC doesn't scale with level, but either way, it penalizes saves but not AC.

Solid Fog is grade-A BFC but really isn't what I'm after here. The point isn't to control the fight and only need to worry about a few targets at a time, though such a strategy is extremely useful and valuable. The point is to point at a target (or more than one, I guess) and say "that one, Fighter. I want you to kill that one for me, and I'm going to make it easy for you to do so."

Hold X probably counts, yeah. I think of it more as a save-or-lose than as a traditional target painter, but it's true that the reason why it's a save-or-lose is because it makes you paralyzed and therefore helpless, so that's useful.

Nifft
2018-11-23, 04:00 PM
The point is to point at a target (or more than one, I guess) and say "that one, Fighter. I want you to kill that one for me, and I'm going to make it easy for you to do so."

Hold X probably counts, yeah. I think of it more as a save-or-lose than as a traditional target painter, but it's true that the reason why it's a save-or-lose is because it makes you paralyzed and therefore helpless, so that's useful.

Hold X says, "That one isn't going to be a problem for a while -- ignore it."

Seems to be the opposite of what you want.

Zaq
2018-11-23, 04:08 PM
Hold X says, "That one isn't going to be a problem for a while -- ignore it."

Seems to be the opposite of what you want.

I guess it depends on whether the Held target is in CdG range or not. Since they get a new save every round, it's potentially worthwhile to CdG them if you have the opening to do so (compared to, say, someone who's failed a save against a "stickier" SoL spell). But yeah, I can see your point. Hold X can really go either way depending on the situation.

Has anyone found a spell that directly increases the damage the target will take after subsequent weapon hits? Sure, increasing the likelihood that they'll be hit increases expected DPR as well (arguably more, depending on your starting conditions), but it'd be interesting to see what options are out there. I feel like such a thing probably exists.

Torpin
2018-11-23, 04:15 PM
i know its not a spell, but have you considered throwing a net
also depending on your dm clever usage of immovable rods might work

Nifft
2018-11-23, 11:38 PM
I guess it depends on whether the Held target is in CdG range or not. Since they get a new save every round, it's potentially worthwhile to CdG them if you have the opening to do so (compared to, say, someone who's failed a save against a "stickier" SoL spell). But yeah, I can see your point. Hold X can really go either way depending on the situation.

CdG provokes an AoO, so if you're in a tight melee situation where your active un-held enemies threaten you, it's understandable that some players will avoid provoking the AoO.

But yeah if you can isolate + paralyze then CdG is solid.


Anyway back on topic: Armor Lock (CSco) negates Dex to AC for 1/level rounds, but only if the target is wearing armor.

The Viscount
2018-11-24, 10:39 AM
Has anyone found a spell that directly increases the damage the target will take after subsequent weapon hits? Sure, increasing the likelihood that they'll be hit increases expected DPR as well (arguably more, depending on your starting conditions), but it'd be interesting to see what options are out there. I feel like such a thing probably exists.

In that general theme there's Bleed from Complete Champion, which makes the target take 1 Con damage every time they are hit by a weapon that deals slashing or piercing.

Fracturing Weapon reduces a foe's DR and AC, and because you cast it on weapons you can even give it to someone else in the party.

If your party has casters, Lower Spell Resistance can be helpful.

Broadening out to abilities, Ranger's Distracting attack to make an enemy flanked is useful.

ShurikVch
2018-11-24, 01:20 PM
Confound (Complete Champion): targeted enemy gets -2 to attacks, and caster - +2 to attacks against the target; if caster worship a deity which provides Trickery domain, it improves to -3/+3, and target is incapable to AoO the caster; if you cast the spell twice then it's benefits would be extended to your allies

How about the ToB maneuvers?
Leading the Attack: if you hit the targeted enemy, your allies got +4 on attack against it
Vanguard Strike: if you hit the targeted enemy, your allies got +4 on attack against it

The flat-footed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#flatFooted) condition removes Dex bonus to AC - thus:
Distract Assailant (Spell Compendium)
Power Word Distract (Races of the Dragon)
Shadow Garrote: Fort save or become flat-footed
White Raven Strike: target is considered flat-footed until the start of his next turn
Strike of the Broke Shield: Ref save or flat-footed until the start of his next turn

Stunned (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#stunned) condition removes Dex to AC, and add extra -2 penalty; thus, such things as Stunning Fist and Swooping Dragon Strike

Asmotherion
2018-11-24, 05:26 PM
Hold X says, "That one isn't going to be a problem for a while -- ignore it."

Seems to be the opposite of what you want.


I guess it depends on whether the Held target is in CdG range or not. Since they get a new save every round, it's potentially worthwhile to CdG them if you have the opening to do so (compared to, say, someone who's failed a save against a "stickier" SoL spell). But yeah, I can see your point. Hold X can really go either way depending on the situation.

Has anyone found a spell that directly increases the damage the target will take after subsequent weapon hits? Sure, increasing the likelihood that they'll be hit increases expected DPR as well (arguably more, depending on your starting conditions), but it'd be interesting to see what options are out there. I feel like such a thing probably exists.

I always saw Hold X as exactly the type of spell you're taking about... especially because they get to re-save every round so you indirectly compel your allies to Coup de Grace the target(s) you've chosen as soon as possible.

-Also Bestow Curse (and it's Greater Variant) can be used for a nice effect of reducing the opponent's Dex. You can also invent your own curse with similar parameters and with a bit of creativity it can become quite good. The lesser version can be delivered via Spectral Hand;

Fizban
2018-11-24, 06:03 PM
Ray of Clumsiness, reduce dex at 1st level. The Bloodstar/Ashstar/whateverstar spells cause anyone in the area to take an extra effect when damaged. I think Decomposition might have been similar? (SpC, Sandstorm for Ashstar probably).

Torpin
2018-11-24, 11:05 PM
many a contact or injury posion, and while unconventional enlarge person

danielxcutter
2018-11-25, 02:32 AM
Does Spell Vulnerability count? Tanks the target's SR a lot.

Nifft
2018-11-25, 12:43 PM
Does Spell Vulnerability count? Tanks the target's SR a lot.

If you're in a party of T1 casters, and every other target has high SR, then yeah it might.

DwarvenWarCorgi
2018-11-25, 03:27 PM
Archivist Dark Knowledge ability

Quill Blast was amazing in 3.0, nerfed a little too much for 3.5, not worth it for a level 5 spell by RAW in SpC. Still knocks down saving throws though.

Divine Agent - Aura of menace- can emulate a shaken effect, gives foes who try to hit you a will save, if they fail they are at -2 to all attacks, saves and checks for 24hrs.

Edit, yeah the second 2 just effect saves, not AC, so casters can hit easier anyway.

Baleful Polymorph fits the bill nicely though, lol.

ShurikVch
2018-11-25, 03:47 PM
Bestow Greater Curse:
One ability score is reduced to 1, or two ability scores take –6 penalties (to a minimum score of 1).Dex 1... :smallwink:

noob
2018-11-25, 03:54 PM
Telekinesis can allow to throw paint around.

darkdragoon
2018-11-25, 07:22 PM
Mark of the Outcast

Zaq
2018-11-26, 01:25 AM
Mark of the Outcast

Interesting! A permanent curse-like effect available relatively early (Blackguard 1, Cleric 2, Druid 2). No need to even have them be of an opposed alignment or actually guilty of any transgression against you. Doesn't even require a touch attack. Interesting spell. And yes, it technically is a target-painter. Good find!

For those of you playing at home, MotO happens to be in Spell Compendium. (I would appreciate it if any future suggestions have a citation attached, just for ease of reference, everyone!)

Fizban
2018-11-26, 01:27 AM
Hexblade's PHB2 Dark Companion ACF.

Paladin of Tyranny's aura of save debuff (Unearthed Arcana/ srd.org), and there's a vestige with the same thing.

RedMage125
2018-11-26, 08:19 AM
Arguably Grease. A prone opponent is easier to hit with melee attacks (but harder to hit with ranged ones).

Of a note here is that even if the target MAKES the save against Grease, it is now flat-footed (unless it has 5 ranks of Balance, unlikely), and thus a valid target for ranged sneak attack.

jdizzlean
2018-11-26, 06:54 PM
there is Thunderhead, which can be used to pinpoint the location of any invisible enemies



Thunderhead creates a small thundercloud over the subject’s head. The cloud moves with the subject, following it unerringly even if he becomes invisible or leaves the region.

DwarvenWarCorgi
2018-11-27, 11:54 PM
How about the ToB maneuvers?
Leading the Attack: if you hit the targeted enemy, your allies got +4 on attack against it
Vanguard Strike: if you hit the targeted enemy, your allies got +4 on attack against it


You missed
Fleshripper- target of your strike gets a fort save or -4 to attacks and ac for 1 round, or 1 round per critical multiplier if your strike is a confirmed crit. (paraphrased)
Hamstring Attack- 1d8 dex damage and -10' to speed
Swooping Dragon Strike- +10d6 damage and chance to stun target

Dimers
2018-11-28, 06:37 AM
Expert Tactician feat in Complete Adventurer helps allies hit whatever you successfully AoO. Improves damage, too. Everything else here is from the Spell Compendium ---

Slapping Hand and Snake's Swiftness are more immediate than you seem to be looking for, but they do encourage your allies to hit the designated target. In fact, knowing that you have such a spell prepped might make them more likely to position themselves appropriately.

Slide and Greater Slide encourage your allies to attack whatever you slide them next to. :smallwink: Seriously, though, the spells can help them avoid AoOs and get more full attacks -- or for that matter, to get more opportunities to charge! It's not something you (usually) cast on the enemy, but it can make your intended targeting very clear.

Vulnerability spell lowers DR, albeit at a crappy rate for such a high-level spell.

Buzzing Bee does basically nothing except paint a target. The only way it might incentivize is by highlighting the space an invisible creature occupies.

Spark of Life removes undead immunities; Graymantle prevents healing. Either might help your team bring down specific enemies they otherwise couldn't.

If your allies like fire, use Mantle of the Icy Soul to impose fire vulnerability. If your allies are animals :smallsmile: then Smell Of Fear helps with attack and damage.

Decomposition adds to allies' damage, but it's not targeted at all.

Combust and any other spell that might light someone on fire encourage your allies to mob the target and keep it from putting out the fire.

Persistent Blade helps allies flank. Sword of Deception and Sword of Darkness can also flank, and each imposes a debuff per hit.

Rust Ray reduces or eliminates armor, or it can be used to wreck a weapon.

Dire Hunger, Disquietude and Mindless Rage force a target to act in a certain suboptimal way that your allies can take advantage of.

ShurikVch
2018-11-28, 07:47 AM
Combat Cloak Expert (Player's Handbook II): Cloaked Strike option:
To utilize this maneuver, on the first round you must move adjacent to an opponent while you do not have a weapon in either hand. On the second round, you make a Bluff check opposed by your foe's Sense Motive check as you use a move action to draw your weapon. If this check succeeds, your opponent loses either his Dexterity bonus to AC or his shield bonus to AC (your choice) until the end of your current turn.
Pack Feint (Dragon #313): When you successfully use Bluff to "Feint in Combat", the target loses its Dexterity bonus to AC for your next attack and the next attack of any allies adjacent to the foe when you made your Bluff check. To benefit from this Feat, each ally’s next attack and your next attack must be made on or before your next turn.

Temporal Jolt (Dragon #350):
A colorless beam streaks toward your target, violently throwing the target back and forth in time, aging natural materials and damaging the brittle remains. The ray requires a ranged touch attack to hit and deals 1d6 points of damage per 3 caster levels (maximum 5d6). In addition, the beam speeds the decay or corrosion of nonmagical items, aging them hundreds of years in a single moment. Nonmagical armor worn by an affected target permanently loses 1d6 points of Armor Class (to the maximum amount of protection the armor offered) and nonmagical weapons and items being held are instantly destroyed (items in backpacks, pouches, and other containers are unaffected). Armor that has its armor bonus reduced to 0 is destroyed. Magic items are unaffected by this spell.

To exploit the "attacked by invisible enemy" clause:
Seething Eyebane
Greater Curse:
All creatures of a specific kind (such as orcs, owlbears, or black dragons) are permanently invisible to the sight of the victim (invisibility purge does not help, but see invisibility and true seeing do). The spellcaster chooses the kind of creature.

To exploit the "enemies are attacking you and ignoring your allies":
Holy Calling (Dragon #334):
As a standard action you may use a turn or rebuke attempt to goad an undead opponent within 60 feet that has line of effect to you. The goaded undead must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Charisma modifier). If the undead fails its save, you are the only creature it can attack for 1d4 rounds. If it kills you, knocks you unconscious, loses sight of you, or otherwise is unable to make attacks against you, it may make any remaining attacks against other foes, as normal. The undead attacks you in the most efficient way possible, whether through melee or ranged attacks, spells, or other abilities. It may cast spells that affect an area as long as you are within the spell's area. The undead may continue to use appropriate tactics, avoiding attacks of opportunity and the like, but it can only attack you regardless of the actions of your allies.



You missed
...
Swooping Dragon Strike- +10d6 damage and chance to stun targetActually, I mentioned this one, unlike the two first

Fizban
2018-11-28, 07:51 AM
Buzzing Bee does basically nothing except paint a target.
The original (Mini's Handbook) also applied the penalty to concentration checks. The SpC version uses the standard non-damaging distracting spell concentration DC, but the original used a flat DC 10. . . and had that -10 on the check, so it was far more distracting.

ShurikVch
2018-11-28, 09:21 AM
One more find: False Bravado spell (Druid 3, Masters of the Wild): target believes it gets the full benefits of Barbarian's Rage; actually, it gets just drawbacks (such as -2 to AC, inability to use certain skills and abilities, and fatigue at the end)

DwarvenWarCorgi
2018-11-28, 10:43 AM
Actually, I mentioned this one, unlike the two first
So you did.

SLOTHRPG95
2018-11-28, 12:56 PM
One more find: False Bravado spell (Druid 3, Masters of the Wild): target believes it gets the full benefits of Barbarian's Rage; actually, it gets just drawbacks (such as -2 to AC, inability to use certain skills and abilities, and fatigue at the end)

Or if you're an arcane caster, you can do this sub-optimally via Suggestion plus Rage. The first is to make them a "willing target" and hence a valid target for the latter. Of course, this costs two spells instead of one, and actually buffs them, but it also provides an untyped penalty to AC, and all the normal restrictions of raging.

ExLibrisMortis
2018-11-28, 02:38 PM
If we're talking about leaders and target painting, I'm fond of a DFI (battle dragon) bard with creaking cacophony. It's not really a "specific target" so much as "vaguely in that direction" (40' spread), but it's very effective.