Hardness and Hitpoints for Adamatine ring

[Melcar]

Hellow fellow scribes of old and new...

I am looking for information pertaining to the Hardness and hit points of a dwarvencrafted adamantine ring.

I'm commissioning a ring in-game, and I want the strongest base possible. Furthermore, I want to enchant it with the following efects:

1) +5 deflection bonus to AC
2) Evasion
3) Enduring Arcana

So, what hardness and hit points would a dwarvencrafted ring, made out of adamantine, with the above enchantments have?

Thanks!

[Jeraa]

An items hardness has nothing to do with how much or little of it there is. So any (nonmagical) adamantine item has the same hardness of 20. A typical ring has 2 hit points (according to the DMG, page 229). Adamantine has 33% more hit points than the same iron/steel item (40 per inch compared to steels 30 per inch), so 2.66 hitpoints. As you round everything down, the hitpoints would be 2 (no change).

Most magic items don't get harder/more hitpoints when enchanted. Armor and weapons being an exception and even then only for the enhancement bonuses to AC or attack/damage rolls, not special abilities or other enchantments. As for being a Dwarvencraft item, that only applies to weapons and armor (assuming you are using the rules from Races of Stone), so no changes from that either.

[Melcar]

So any (nonmagical) adamantine item has the same hardness of 20.

Does this apply to weapons and armor as well? So an adamantine Longsword having hardness 20 and 6,67 hp (rounding down to 6)?




Most magic items don't get harder/more hitpoints when enchanted. Armor and weapons being an exception and even then only for the enhancement bonuses to AC or attack/damage rolls, not special abilities or other enchantments. As for being a Dwarvencraft item, that only applies to weapons and armor (assuming you are using the rules from Races of Stone), so no changes from that either.

How then would I go about making sure my very expensive ring wont just be destroyed if my enemy gets his/hers hands on it?

[flappeercraft]

Does this apply to weapons and armor as well? So an adamantine Longsword having hardness 20 and 6,67 hp (rounding down to 6)?




How then would I go about making sure my very expensive ring wont just be destroyed if my enemy gets his/hers hands on it?

What prevents that from happening is greed. Who in their right mind destroys loot that they can either sell or use themselves.

Also you can protect the ring with spells such as Hardening from SpC which can increase the hardness of the object.

[Zaq]

Don’t let the enemy get it at all. You never actually have to take off a ring. They probably won’t even see it to steal it if you wear gloves. Does your GM often have enemies pry the rings off your fingers if you’re not dead/KO’d?

Or if you want to do something while you’re sleeping besides just, you know, wearing it, you can buy a spiked shield (therefore a weapon, because spikes) with a hidden compartment in it (rules for that are in, um, I think Dungeonscape?). Put the ring in the compartment and get an eternal wand of Absorb Weapon, absorbing the shield into your body until you’re ready for it.

You could also try to make it out of riverine (Stormwrack). Riverine is basically mobile walls of force, so it’s basically immune to damage from anything except Disjunction and Disintegrate (and pro tip, your adamantine ring will also lose to Disjunction and Disintegrate, so this isn’t a new weakness).

As flappeercraft stated, unless the ring is obviously more harmful than useful to someone who happens to steal it, they’d probably keep it rather than destroy it. I mean, if YOU looted a ring like this and it wasn’t obviously cursed, would YOU say “I don’t want anyone else to have such a thing” and hand it over to the Forsaker for smashification, or would you say “dude, sweet ring!” and put it on?

[Jack_Simth]

Does this apply to weapons and armor as well? So an adamantine Longsword having hardness 20 and 6,67 hp (rounding down to 6)?




How then would I go about making sure my very expensive ring wont just be destroyed if my enemy gets his/hers hands on it?

Make it as a poison ring, then enchant it as a weapon. THAT adds hardness and hp, plus permits dwarvencraft.

[Melcar]

Thank you for all of your replies...

I found some Obdurium in Stronghold Builders Guidebook, which is stronger than adamantine, so I'll be using that metal instead for the ring!



THAT adds hardness and hp, plus permits dwarvencraft.

A few of you have said only weapons and armor can be dwarvencrafted. Granted, my reading and search skills might not be great, but where exactly is this directly stated? I only found that only metal and stone items can be dwarvencrafted... but not that it specifically has to be a weapon or an armor... I assume mining picks and stone doors can be made dwarvencrafted?



What prevents that from happening is greed. Who in their right mind destroys loot that they can either sell or use themselves.

Also you can protect the ring with spells such as Hardening from SpC which can increase the hardness of the object.

That's a nice spell. I did not know it. Thanks! Do you know of other similar spells that could protect an object like that?

[Jeraa]

A few of you have said only weapons and armor can be dwarvencrafted. Granted, my reading and search skills might not be great, but where exactly is this directly stated? I only found that only metal and stone items can be dwarvencrafted... but not that it specifically has to be a weapon or an armor... I assume mining picks and stone doors can be made dwarvencrafted?

The rule for Dwarvencrafted items (Races of Stone, page 159) say all Dwarvencraft items are masterwork. Only armor, weapons, and tools have masterwork versions - there is no such thing as a masterwork door or ring. It gives cost increases for armor and weapons, but not for any other item type. The description mentions dwarven armorsmiths and weaponsmiths, not any other crafter type.

The entire section only talks about armor and weapons. Other item types are not included. Since there are no effects listed that apply to other item types (Such as how much something costs), then it applies to no other item type. Someone could always houserule differently, of course.

[Max Caysey]

The rule for Dwarvencrafted items (Races of Stone, page 159) say all Dwarvencraft items are masterwork. Only armor, weapons, and tools have masterwork versions - there is no such thing as a masterwork door or ring.

What about masterwork tools? That is a thing!

[Brassthorn]

That's a nice spell. I did not know it. Thanks! Do you know of other similar spells that could protect an object like that?

Matter Manipulation psionic power from the SRD/XPH. Expensive since it's 8th level instead of 6th like the hardening spell, plus requires paying (or paying for) XP. But ... it's instantaneous instead of permanent, so it can't be dispelled. And your DM may allow them to stack. Can add hit points based on the size of the item, but a ring is probably too small to benefit.

[Bronk]

What about masterwork tools? That is a thing!

The basic rules for masterwork tools are here:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm

The gist is that there's one for every skill, and using one offers a +2 circumstance bonus on the skill check.

There's actually a better version from the Dragonlance book 'War of the Lance', that goes from +2 masterwork all the way up to +10 legendary items, for tools, and also a +1 to +5 scale for armor and weapons.


Matter Manipulation psionic power from the SRD/XPH. Expensive since it's 8th level instead of 6th like the hardening spell, plus requires paying (or paying for) XP. But ... it's instantaneous instead of permanent, so it can't be dispelled. And your DM may allow them to stack. Can add hit points based on the size of the item, so a ring is probably too small to benefit.

Interesting! Since rings resize, you could have something very large wear the ring to make it bigger before using the power...

[Jeraa]

What about masterwork tools? That is a thing!

I think you need to reread what I posted. Because I very specifically did mention tools as one of the things with a masterwork version. It is even in the part you quoted. And while masterwork tools are a thing, they still can't be Dwarvencraft. Dwarvencraft only includes mechanics for armor and weapons, tools are never mentioned.

[heavyfuel]

Who in their right mind destroys loot that they can either sell or use themselves.

I can think of a few people with very good reasons to destroy loot items that give the person trying to kill you a significant advantage.

Which is type of people #1, btw. If your very life is on the line, you're not gonna be thinking too hard about future prospect other than living it out. If you can spend and attack to give your opponent -5 to whatever for the rest of the combat, it might be a tactically sound decision.

#2 Desperate people with friends they want to protect. Dealing 30 extra points of damage to an enemy isn't going to really hinder said enemy if they later encounter the person's friends because HP is easily cured. Destroying their favorite trinket might just give the friends enough of an edge though, as items aren't so readily replaceable.

#3 People who don't care about money. Be it Vow of Poverty or access to vast amounts of wealth. Or maybe they're monsters with no access to a market and no use for the item itself. Maybe they're very powerful and can Wish a better version of your item into existence at a moment's notice, bonus points if they can do it without paying the XP cost.

That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty of other good reasons.

It's a rather stupid notion that items are never sundered / destroyed. It's usually players that say that it's a "total **** move (TM)" to destroy items, but it's a super valid strategy for anyone in the presented situations.

[Max Caysey]

I think you need to reread what I posted. Because I very specifically did mention tools as one of the things with a masterwork version. It is even in the part you quoted. And while masterwork tools are a thing, they still can't be Dwarvencraft. Dwarvencraft only includes mechanics for armor and weapons, tools are never mentioned.

Wow... you are right... you did mention that. I don't know how I missed that... In terms of tools though, it would make sense if tools made by dwarves were dwarvencrafted... I would assume they get the same durability boost... but indeed the price is not mentioned, nor any other mechanics for that matter...

[Bronk]

I found some Obdurium in Stronghold Builders Guidebook, which is stronger than adamantine, so I'll be using that metal instead for the ring!


Aurorum, BoED: If a weapon, shield, or armor is made from this, you can just stick it back together.

Oerthblood: Alloyed with another metal, the final product keeps the properties of the other metal, but also has the properties of adamantine.



A few of you have said only weapons and armor can be dwarvencrafted. Granted, my reading and search skills might not be great, but where exactly is this directly stated? I only found that only metal and stone items can be dwarvencrafted... but not that it specifically has to be a weapon or an armor... I assume mining picks and stone doors can be made dwarvencrafted?


I've checked, and you can make weapons, armor, and items with the dwarvencraft property, although it is weird that they forgot to mention prices for items. The rules state this on RoS p159, then refer you to the PHB for masterwork crafting rules, but as mentioned, you can make the base item a poison ring, which counts as a weapon.

My advice would be to make a dwarvencraft mundane poison ring out of oerthblooded aurorum, enchant it as your +5 ring of protection (or a +5 ring of defense depending on how much money you have) at 1X cost, add evasion and enduring arcana at 2X cost each, then enchant the poison ring as a +1 weapon and add the 'spellblade' enchantment on it, keyed to 'disjunction'. Then, if you can, have a trustworthy very large creature wear it and take it off again so that it's much larger, then hire a psion to cast 'matter manipulation' on it to make it even tougher.

Now you have an item that's tough, can't be disjoined, and if it is sundered you can just scoop it up and stick the pieces back together again.

Having it cursed would keep the pieces with you as well...

[Melcar]

I think you need to reread what I posted. Because I very specifically did mention tools as one of the things with a masterwork version. It is even in the part you quoted. And while masterwork tools are a thing, they still can't be Dwarvencraft. Dwarvencraft only includes mechanics for armor and weapons, tools are never mentioned.


I've checked, and you can make weapons, armor, and items with the dwarvencraft property, although it is weird that they forgot to mention prices for items. The rules state this on RoS p159, then refer you to the PHB for masterwork crafting rules, but as mentioned, you can make the base item a poison ring, which counts as a weapon.

Sweet! Thanks!



My advice would be to make a dwarvencraft mundane poison ring out of oerthblooded aurorum, enchant it as your +5 ring of protection (or a +5 ring of defense depending on how much money you have)

I have never heard of a "Ring of Defense"... Can you elaborate from where this is!

[Bronk]

Sweet! Thanks!

No problem, it's just an idea. Aurorum is the main thing for the sundering part.



I have never heard of a "Ring of Defense"... Can you elaborate from where this is!

Sure, that's from Dragon 290 page 83. It's more expensive than a ring of protection, but it offers a +1 up to a +5 enhancement bonus to armor class along with an equal +1 to +5 deflection bonus to AC, at the same time.

[Bronk]

After double checking the Spellsword angle, it looks like it only works for targeted spells. Sorry about that! There's not a whole lot of non-tricky things you can do about disjunction, but I did find this post with a nice list of threads to check out, including the silly sounding shrunken metal hat and the possibility of using the Wings of Cover spell.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?331518-Any-better-ways-to-obtain-quot-immunity-quot-to-disjunction

[Crake]

Make your ring out of riverine, that's indestructable.

[Melcar]

Sure, that's from Dragon 290 page 83. It's more expensive than a ring of protection, but it offers a +1 up to a +5 enhancement bonus to armor class along with an equal +1 to +5 deflection bonus to AC, at the same time.

Huh... Very nice! Never seen that before! :)



After double checking the Spellsword angle, it looks like it only works for targeted spells. Sorry about that! There's not a whole lot of non-tricky things you can do about disjunction, but I did find this post with a nice list of threads to check out, including the silly sounding shrunken metal hat and the possibility of using the Wings of Cover spell.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?331518-Any-better-ways-to-obtain-quot-immunity-quot-to-disjunction

Nice link... Yeah i did see that in your recommendation - the spellblade idea - but yes only targeted spells...



Make your ring out of riverine, that's indestructable.

Wow... that's a weird substance! Thanks!